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KildarX posted:Any bets on if the Qatari's did follow through with all the demands and the US did shut the base how long it would take before the Qatari's where invaded by one of the demanding parties? Saudis are hoping for a military coup, but it doesn't look like they're going to get it. If the US actually left or just pulled back to the base and said that we consider it a GCC matter the Saudis might or might not invade depending on how much money they think they can get away with stealing.
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Jun 23, 2017 17:21
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honestly who else is waiting for the middle east to go full guns of August and just WWI it up already I mean Saudi and Iran need to stop loving around with this proxy war poo poo and just fuckin go for it
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Jun 23, 2017 17:29
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Stultus Maximus posted:The civil suit was filed pretty much immediately. CommieGIR posted:They'd be stupid not to, the city already said they are firing the cop, and I doubt, especially with the new videos, that he'd stand a chance in civil court. TBeats posted:Good. I hope they take him for everything he's worth and then some. I'm not usually a person to root for someone to kill themselves but I wouldn't mind him having a conversation with Michelle Carter. Watching that video with his little girl saying to calm down so they don't shoot? And for some reason her saying "shooted" just adds to her innocence and makes it just that much more heartbreaking. This is her reality for the rest of her life and that video makes me physically angry. I know QI pisses off a lot of people, but anyone who has worked for the government should understand why it is good law and absolutely correct.
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Jun 23, 2017 17:45
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Cops get personally sued all the time. There's no real point to it, the big dollars come from suing the agency. You aren't getting million dollar payouts from officer schmuckatlelli. In addition to juries holding officers personally liable, the agency that offers you imdemnification doesn't have to do so if they show you deviated from department policy. Qualified immunity only applies in federal court, not local ones.
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Jun 23, 2017 17:54
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Department has basically already admitted fault by firing him and releasing the videos which are damning. Either way, they have a very strong case.Dead Reckoning posted:I know QI pisses off a lot of people, but anyone who has worked for the government should understand why it is good law and absolutely correct. No, frankly, we need to start holding officers personally liable. The whole focus on 'Support our Cops' crap has gone too far, where you can be a trained and disciplined officer and expected to be allowed to have less self-control than the citizens you are supposed to protect.
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Jun 23, 2017 17:56
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Blue lives faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaart
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Jun 23, 2017 18:00
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CommieGIR posted:Department has basically already admitted fault by firing him and releasing the videos which are damning. Either way, they have a very strong case. I remember hearing somewhere some think tank floated the idea of personal liability insurance for police officers. The bad apples (since they'll be protected by their union and not get fired) will get up-charged for being dicks while leaving the rest of the force paying standard rates. But fat chance of that happening.
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Jun 23, 2017 18:00
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Smiling Jack posted:Cops get personally sued all the time. There's no real point to it, the big dollars come from suing the agency. You aren't getting million dollar payouts from officer schmuckatlelli. (I think you may be thinking of sovereign immunity.) CommieGIR posted:No, frankly, we need to start holding officers personally liable. The whole focus on 'Support our Cops' crap has gone too far, where you can be a trained and disciplined officer and expected to be allowed to have less self-control than the citizens you are supposed to protect. Similarly, a police officer didn't strap on a gun and decide to get up in motorists' business for personal benefit, he did it on behalf of a government. As long as his actions were incompetent rather than criminal, the liability should properly rest on the government that gave an incompetent person a badge and a gun. Seriously, holy poo poo, anyone who as ever held a position of any responsibility in the military ought to wake up in a cold sweat at the thought of being individually liable for decisions they had to make in the course of their duties. 
Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 18:34
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Yeah, outside of downright criminal activity, I'd rather we hammer the government and administration/leadership who either failed to properly vet, train, or reign in their own police forces (or other employees). I don't want police to be made up of people desperate enough to risk getting personally sued every time they conduct their jobs. And it'd be pretty easy for the government to just be like "lol, you're bankrupt and fired Officer Dumbass" without correcting their training, hiring, retention, and accountability programs.
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Jun 23, 2017 18:42
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i would be okay with the police ROE making cops as hesitant to pull triggers as we were when i was deployed.
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Jun 23, 2017 18:47
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WaPo put together the most in-depth analysis of the Russia hack poo poo in real-time, from within the Obama administration. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking/?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.2ae1d3fec99f It's really worth your time. Basically, by trying to not be political and ignoring the fat gently caress screaming about everything being rigged, it all became political and inertia won the day.
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Jun 23, 2017 18:48
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mlmp08 posted:And it'd be pretty easy for the government to just be like "lol, you're bankrupt and fired Officer Dumbass" without correcting their training, hiring, retention, and accountability programs. That's basically the difference between the private sector and the government sector, honestly.
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Jun 23, 2017 18:50
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If the US cared about the opinions of its citizens it would probably train its cops better, but it doesn't give two fucks.
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Jun 23, 2017 19:14
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windshipper posted:That's basically the difference between the private sector and the government sector, honestly. It's almost as though the government is not a business and for-profit private enterprise has very different roles and purposes than the state.
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Jun 23, 2017 19:19
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orange juche posted:If the US cared about the opinions of its citizens it would probably train its cops better, but it doesn't give two fucks. Convert all LE to the "Land Guard" then randomly assign them all over the nation.
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Jun 23, 2017 19:50
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The state of the healthcare bill is basically this: 1) poo poo bill released 2) every senator gripes about it 3) the senators in danger say they won't vote for it but give themselves wiggle room https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/878324480321265666 4) senators gripe some more wanting the bill more moderate/conservative 5) marginal changes are made that don't really do much 6) senators magically announce they alone fixed it and will vote for the bill 7) bill passes 51-50 with Pence breaking tie 8) house members gripe a lot 9) bill passed house and becomes law We're right now at #3. Possible way this is wrong: https://twitter.com/BenjySarlin/status/878328146222694402 But McConnell is very, very good at counting and getting votes. gently caress him for all of eternity, but he's very good at vote whipping. facialimpediment fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jun 23, 2017 |
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Jun 23, 2017 20:03
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I get the feeling that the people that would be the best cops don't want to be cops.
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Jun 23, 2017 20:05
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not caring here posted:I get the feeling that the people that would be the best cops don't want to be cops.  but apply this to all of congress and the presidency as well.
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Jun 23, 2017 20:06
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Dead Reckoning posted:They can sue the department, but suing the officer in his individual capacity is basically a non-starter due to qualified immunity and if they try, their suit is gonna get thrown out. If I recall from the last time this came up, they would have to prove that the officer knew he was acting illegally, rather than just being incompetent. This is wrong, the standard is reasonable belief of legality not knowingly illegal. The fact that the department concluded that no reasonable officer could have considered that situation a mortal threat cracks that door wide open.
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Jun 23, 2017 20:19
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Dead Reckoning posted:No, we don't, because government officials in the course of their duties are acting on behalf of the state, not for their personal aggrandizement or enrichment, and the outsize power and authority they wield correctly belong to the state. If an IRS auditor makes a mistake and accidentally orders a million dollars seized from some poor schmuck's bank account, said schmuck should be able to sue the IRS to get his money back, but not the auditor, despite the pain and privation the schmuck no doubt experienced by being instantly broke. Someone who supervises millions of dollars of fines on behalf of the government is going to make a mistake eventually, but the government who told him to do that job and who directly benefits from his labor should be on the hook for liability, not able to back off and say "Hey buddy, what you do in the course of your official duties is on you. Better get a lawyer." Both of them are responsible. The idea that somehow the actual officer lacks individual responsibility is part of the reason we're in the mess we are quote:Seriously, holy poo poo, anyone who as ever held a position of any responsibility in the military ought to wake up in a cold sweat at the thought of being individually liable for decisions they had to make in the course of their duties. This makes no sense. The idea that you are somehow not liable for your actions is baffling, because most officers ARE held liable for their actions. Its literally what the UCMJ is about.
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Jun 23, 2017 20:37
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CommieGIR posted:This makes no sense. The idea that you are somehow not liable for your actions is baffling, because most officers ARE held liable for their actions. Its literally what the UCMJ is about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M
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Jun 23, 2017 20:40
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Spicey didn't allow cameras today so CNN sent their Supreme Court sketch artist. https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/878331802078687233
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Jun 23, 2017 20:45
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An Air Force Thunderbirds viper crashed in Ohio. Sort of. It was taxiing and a gust of wind blew it over. It was also a familiarization flight, so some local sports star or reporter will forever fear flying. Hope the pilot and guest are okay. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/thunderbird-f-16-military-jet-flips-over-dayton-ohio-air-n776081
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Jun 23, 2017 20:54
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Arc Light posted:An Air Force Thunderbirds viper crashed in Ohio. A 17 mph gust of wind won't flip a viper clean over.
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Jun 23, 2017 21:01
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Trey Gowdy has killed the House Oversight's Russia investigation. http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/new_house_oversight_chairman_kills_off_committee_s_russia_investigation Partially because of Mueller's investigation, but this is the guy who drove the Benghazi investigation for 28 months.
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Jun 23, 2017 21:17
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Guns/Hillary/police shooting thread, guys
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Jun 23, 2017 21:21
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CommieGIR posted:Trey Gowdy has killed the House Oversight's Russia investigation. edit: RIP Benjamin J Ghazi
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Jun 23, 2017 21:22
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CommieGIR posted:Trey Gowdy has killed the House Oversight's Russia investigation. Aside from Gowdy being a piece of poo poo over Benjamin Ghazi, and a piece of poo poo in general, this makes some sense. House Oversight is more about general executive branch oversight by Congress, not so much about foreign poo poo. That's the purview of House/Senate Intel and that's why House/Senate have been driving the whole investigation, since the primary driver is the Russia hack. It's way more bullshit that House Oversight is flatly denying to do their basic job of overseeing the executive branch because Donnie is in charge of it.
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Jun 23, 2017 21:41
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I wouldn't be surprised if Mueller asked for it to be kiboshed to avoid an Ollie North situation where someone could appeal based on an immunity offer from one investigation influencing testimony on another, resulting in conviction. Puts the fuckers in a tough place because they know they could sabotage it that way but also want to kill the investigation as a source of headlines.
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Jun 23, 2017 21:44
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mlmp08 posted:A 17 mph gust of wind won't flip a viper clean over. Something broke or someone hosed up, you can't roll a structure with that amount of mass with that kind of wind. Like, a microbust could do it but there weren't any storms around.
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Jun 23, 2017 22:03
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facialimpediment posted:WaPo put together the most in-depth analysis of the Russia hack poo poo in real-time, from within the Obama administration. 
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Jun 23, 2017 22:04
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Jun 23, 2017 22:11
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Jun 23, 2017 22:21
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Jun 23, 2017 22:23
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Hexyflexy posted:Something broke or someone hosed up, you can't roll a structure with that amount of mass with that kind of wind. Like, a microbust could do it but there weren't any storms around. Maybe a bone was starting its engines
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Jun 23, 2017 22:25
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