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Something else from this episode that reminded me of Red Dwarf were the super-fast elevators. They mostly abandoned it after the first season, but I loved that idea that traveling from one end of the ship to another was such a lengthy process that the lifts were actually set up really luxuriously because you were probably going to spend at least a dozen+ hours in one before you arrived at your location. The idea of the lifts in this one is pretty terrifying, how would your perception of time be affected by moving closer towards the Black Hole at the same time the ship is (slowly) pulling away from it?
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Jun 25, 2017 04:02
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Wow. I hope this doesn't sound too uncritically fannish, but that episode had everything. Its on my list of favorite episodes, ever.
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Jun 25, 2017 04:02
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I wonder if the Master had anything to do with that expedition to the 500th floor failing? They had the clocks showing that 2 days passed in the control room while 10,000 years passed at their end of the ship, so they should have realized how long an expedition would take. Even a quick look 'round would have had them away from the city for years. Not that it would have mattered. They can never completely evacuate the floor they are on, because the old rear end engines can't survive without maintenance for years at a time, that's probably why they broke down in the first place. Davros1 posted:No, this doesn't negate Spare Parts. Since they're both a race of Mondasians, they'd have the access to the same technology. So some people decided to stay on Mondas and retreat underground, others decided to escape on a ship. It would make sense that presented with the same problem (survival at any cost) their doctors and scientists would come to the same conclusion (Conversion). Makes sense. I doubt the lost inbreds in the city were making huge technological strides, probably the Mondas homeworld already had quite advanced medical and cybernetic technology when the ship was built. Heck, maybe this enormous colony ship was supposed to evacuate Mondas, and since it never arrives the rest had to move underground. It won't ever arrive, because the engines are already thousands of years old, and it will be thousands more before they break free of the black hole. That end of the ship is well past its rated lifespan and incapable of serving its original purpose as a colony ship.
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Jun 25, 2017 04:12
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What exactly prevented them from going back to the control room? Obviously they were able to go up to take away Humans for whatever reason. It seems like any real situation would have them go down into the ship, take a look around and then come back to the control room to the guy standing there saying "You've only been gone for a couple seconds!." It would have made more sense if they started off at the bottom of the ship and then a couple people went up to the control room. Then it turns out that while they've spent an hour or so figuring out what's going on up there, hundreds of years or whatever passed back down below. It makes no sense that someone would start at the top, go to the bottom, and just never go back.
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Jun 25, 2017 04:18
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Cojawfee posted:What exactly prevented them from going back to the control room? Obviously they were able to go up to take away Humans for whatever reason. It seems like any real situation would have them go down into the ship, take a look around and then come back to the control room to the guy standing there saying "You've only been gone for a couple seconds!." It would have made more sense if they started off at the bottom of the ship and then a couple people went up to the control room. Then it turns out that while they've spent an hour or so figuring out what's going on up there, hundreds of years or whatever passed back down below. It makes no sense that someone would start at the top, go to the bottom, and just never go back. Razor said something about a deck that no one had returned from, so that only converted people could survive the journey.
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Jun 25, 2017 04:19
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Facebook Aunt posted:I wonder if the Master had anything to do with that expedition to the 500th floor failing? They had the clocks showing that 2 days passed in the control room while 10,000 years passed at their end of the ship, so they should have realized how long an expedition would take. Even a quick look 'round would have had them away from the city for years. Given what we see in the next episode trailer/teaser thing where we see forests and fields (are those spoiler-worthy?), I think it's a thing where they just assumed the worst about the results of the expedition, and/or someone down in the lower parts of the ship has an ulterior motive to provide pressure to turn everyone into Cybermen. Kinda a general/subjective question: is the season worth watching? For some reason I didn't get the urge to start watching when the season started, this time.
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Jun 25, 2017 04:21
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Davros1 posted:Razor said something about a deck that no one had returned from, so that only converted people could survive the journey. When they first went down there to check things out, there were no converted people.
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Jun 25, 2017 04:22
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MisterBibs posted:Kinda a general/subjective question: is the season worth watching? For some reason I didn't get the urge to start watching when the season started, this time. YES. Oh god yes, it's one of the best seasons, even with a lull of a three-parter around the middle there.
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Jun 25, 2017 04:22
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MisterBibs posted:
Its my favorite season of the revival, I think. Its "mediocre" in the best possible way, like it isn't full of mind bending twists or stellar conceptual episode, but every episode makes sense and is well-executed.
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Jun 25, 2017 04:26
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MisterBibs posted:Kinda a general/subjective question: is the season worth watching? For some reason I didn't get the urge to start watching when the season started, this time. It's been a great season, there was a dip in quality during a loosely-connected trilogy in the middle but even those were pretty watchable stories that just didn't fit particularly well together. It's up there with season 8 for me so far, it may surpass it depending on how they stick the landing and could even end up better than season 4. Season 5 remains the yardstick though, nothing has touched that for me so far. MisterBibs posted:Given what we see in the next episode trailer/teaser thing where we see forests and fields (are those spoiler-worthy?) We actually see those during the flyby of the ship right at the start of this episode. The camera deliberately stops/slows down at certain points to show what is on particular levels.
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Jun 25, 2017 04:27
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There is one bad story this season. Unfortunately it's the longest story, but dammit the rest was great.
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Jun 25, 2017 04:28
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Cojawfee posted:When they first went down there to check things out, there were no converted people. They had gone down there to restart/power the engines to try to escape the black hole. Something, that incident on the deck, kept them from making the full journey back up.
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Jun 25, 2017 04:28
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...so what is it? Only joking!
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Jun 25, 2017 04:37
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The_Doctor posted:I'm liking pound shop Zathras. You. You are the one. *points at Missy*
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Jun 25, 2017 04:43
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Cojawfee posted:What exactly prevented them from going back to the control room? Obviously they were able to go up to take away Humans for whatever reason. It seems like any real situation would have them go down into the ship, take a look around and then come back to the control room to the guy standing there saying "You've only been gone for a couple seconds!." It would have made more sense if they started off at the bottom of the ship and then a couple people went up to the control room. Then it turns out that while they've spent an hour or so figuring out what's going on up there, hundreds of years or whatever passed back down below. It makes no sense that someone would start at the top, go to the bottom, and just never go back. The engines would break down again instantly if they left. It's been 2 days in the control deck, and 10,000 years in the engine deck. On average, every hour in the control room is 200 years in the engine. Every minute on the control deck is 3.3 years on the engine deck. Probably more at the beginning of the trip, and less as they get farther from the black hole? With the two eventually syncing once they get far enough away. So when the first 10 went down, one minute on the control deck might have been much more than 3.3 years on the engine deck. Moments after accelerating away from the black hole they get multiple failures in the engines. Repair crew go down the lift and find that the engine room hasn't been serviced in centuries! Any trip to the front is going to years, and the engines can't go years without service, because they aren't brand new engines they are hella old rusty crap. It probably took all 10 of them working around the clock just to stabilize the situation after centuries with no maintenance. If even 1 leaves, then the other 9 have more work to keep things going while he is gone, and the 10 of them aren't enough as it is. They are trapped. Once they have children and grandchildren to share the workload someone could have gone up. Though they were probably in survival mode constantly trying to secure enough food and water for their little colony. So "go back up to the control room for help" became a generational message that they weren't able to follow through on for hundreds of years. By the time they did, the crew upstairs saw them as intruders. I wonder why they couldn't send text messages though? Obviously they couldn't send video messages because their message would be received as a fraction of a second of static. Maybe they did send text messages, but the bridge saw it a sudden, overwhelming volume of text messages, and dismissed it as a malfunction or something.
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Jun 25, 2017 04:44
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Time for horrible next episode speculation, including a possible "best fanwankery ever" regeneration situation: After everything else is settled, the Doctor decides to voluntarily regenerate and channel the energy into Bill to restore her. But the Master shoves him outside the TARDIS and he regenerates there. In Antarctica. In 1984. A huge problem with The Tenth Planet has always been that the Mondasian Cybermen had a plan that relied upon draining all of the Earth's life energy, which failed because apparently they'd massively underestimated the amount of life energy there. What if they had been right but there was a massive infusion of additional life energy that overloaded them as a result of this impending regeneration? That also potentially sets up for the Christmas special, as the Doctor's lives flash before his eyes. (Meanwhile, Missy regenerates to restore Bill and redeem herself. It's a Christmas miracle! Good luck Chibnall.)
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Jun 25, 2017 04:50
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Facebook Aunt posted:I wonder why they couldn't send text messages though? Obviously they couldn't send video messages because their message would be received as a fraction of a second of static. Maybe they did send text messages, but the bridge saw it a sudden, overwhelming volume of text messages, and dismissed it as a malfunction or something. It would crack me up if they sent text but the janitor didn't have high enough security clearance to access them 
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Jun 25, 2017 04:57
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah as they panned across the ship I had to wonder if echoplex had accidentally wandered back onto set and gotten confused So what is it?
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Jun 25, 2017 05:10
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BSam posted:So what is it? I've never seen one before, no one has...
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Jun 25, 2017 05:13
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World Enough and Time gifs - click to view                  This was a visually stunning episode in addition to being well written and acted.
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Jun 25, 2017 05:31
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I'd put this season just behind 5 and 8 (which are a lot closer on a rewatch than I'd thought the first time around) but a really cracking finale might put it out ahead overall. It doesn't really seem as final as Time Of The Doctor, but then a multi-Master story combined with the insanely deep-cut callback of the Mondasian Cybermen is a pretty big event in and of itself. Insanely furious at the BBC for not only spoiling multiple plot elements but advertising the episode with those plot elements as the premise.
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Jun 25, 2017 05:37
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Something no one has mentioned yet: The Doctor's haircut in the cold open is noticeably longer than in the episode. How much time separates the two?
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Jun 25, 2017 06:03
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2house2fly posted:I'd put this season just behind 5 and 8 (which are a lot closer on a rewatch than I'd thought the first time around) but a really cracking finale might put it out ahead overall. It doesn't really seem as final as Time Of The Doctor, but then a multi-Master story combined with the insanely deep-cut callback of the Mondasian Cybermen is a pretty big event in and of itself. Insanely furious at the BBC for not only spoiling multiple plot elements but advertising the episode with those plot elements as the premise. Yeah, I feel like this would have been way crazier if the BBC didn't put out youtube videos of The Master and cybermen. A preview should make you think it has spoiled something crazy, not actually give away the last 2 minutes of the episode. When Bill woke up with that thing on her chest, I instantly figured she'd be a cyberman later on because that was in the preview. The Master reveal kind of got me because I didn't really expect Razor to be him. Oh well, at least they didn't put her in that cybermen lingerie.
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Jun 25, 2017 06:22
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glowing-fish posted:Something no one has mentioned yet: Capaldi was looking very Petweean there.
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Jun 25, 2017 06:24
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Jerusalem posted:Something else from this episode that reminded me of Red Dwarf were the super-fast elevators. They mostly abandoned it after the first season, but I loved that idea that traveling from one end of the ship to another was such a lengthy process that the lifts were actually set up really luxuriously because you were probably going to spend at least a dozen+ hours in one before you arrived at your location. The elevators weren't actually *that* fast. You saw the floor counter slow down as it reached the top floor. That wasn't just the elevator slowing down, that was literally the time within the elevator slowing down. One thing I was wondering about is why they always kept Bill's chest device hidden behind clothes. It made it seem like she didn't care enough about what was done to her to even take a look at it.
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Jun 25, 2017 08:01
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Jerusalem posted:I've never seen one before, no one has... WHITEHOLESPEWINGTIMEENGINESDEADADVICEPLEASE
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Jun 25, 2017 08:03
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Carbon dioxide posted:The elevators weren't actually *that* fast. You saw the floor counter slow down as it reached the top floor. That wasn't just the elevator slowing down, that was literally the time within the elevator slowing down. I know right, show us the robot tits!
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Jun 25, 2017 08:25
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Carbon dioxide posted:
It's almost like her emotions about it were being suppressed.
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Jun 25, 2017 08:28
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I just thought it was like an injury, since Bill went to take a look but seemed to decide against it - for any injury it always feels worse when your looking at it, when the wound is dressed or the cybernetic implants are covered, you can just... not think about it.
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Jun 25, 2017 08:39
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She changed her shirt so she looked at eventually, just not right away.
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Jun 25, 2017 08:42
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That way they didn't need to think of a classy way for the chest plate to interact with her boobs.
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Jun 25, 2017 08:42
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Facebook Aunt posted:I wonder if the Master had anything to do with that expedition to the 500th floor failing? They had the clocks showing that 2 days passed in the control room while 10,000 years passed at their end of the ship, so they should have realized how long an expedition would take. Even a quick look 'round would have had them away from the city for years. The thing that occurred to me is that the only source of information we have about this supposed expedition is the Master himself. For all we know, he was lying through his teeth, there was no such expedition or any real danger above them, and there was nothing (except him, and I guess the Doctor's instructions to wait) preventing Bill from hopping on that elevator at any time. I guess her Cyber-Heart could have stopped working though, and it would have been the longest elevator ride ever from her perspective. (Or would it? Time dilation gives me headaches.) Anyway, holy poo poo that was great. It would have been even better if JOHN SIMM IS COMING BACK AS THE MASTER hadn't been all over the place for like a year, but such is the reality of television promotion I guess.
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Jun 25, 2017 08:47
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Ha ha looks like someone picked the worst possible opportunity to just leave the TARDIS at the business end of a black hole across a minutes-to-years time dilation. Hope he has the fanciest key fob in the universe.
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Jun 25, 2017 08:50
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She does note early in the episode that she hasn't looked yet because she's not ready for it. Presumably at some point over the intervening years (time dilation is so cool and mindboggling) she felt sufficiently prepared to look.Fil5000 posted:WHITEHOLESPEWINGTIMEENGINESDEADADVICEPLEASE ...excuse me?
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Jun 25, 2017 09:07
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Jerusalem posted:She does note early in the episode that she hasn't looked yet because she's not ready for it. Presumably at some point over the intervening years (time dilation is so cool and mindboggling) she felt sufficiently prepared to look. In the Episode White Hole Holly's IQ is boosted greatly from the usual 6000 all the way to 12000, however this is too much for her to handle, so her lifespan reduces to ~2 minutes, so she shuts herself down to conserve energy. The above statement is Rimmer trying to cram all the information he has into the short time she'll take to turn back off: WHITE HOLE SPEWING TIME, Engines Dead, Advice Please. Oh poo poo I think you were just doing Holly's reaction to that outburst, I'm a loving idiot 
BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Jun 25, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2017 09:16
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BioEnchanted posted:In the Episode White Hole Holly's IQ is boosted greatly from the usual 6000 all the way to 12000, however this is too much for her to handle, so her lifespan reduces to ~2 minutes, so she shuts herself down to conserve energy. The above statement is Rimmer trying to cram all the information he has into the short time she'll take to turn back off: WHITE HOLE SPEWING TIME, Engines Dead, Advice Please. So what is it?
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Jun 25, 2017 09:32
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BioEnchanted posted:Oh poo poo I think you were just doing Holly's reaction to that outburst, I'm a loving idiot I can't understand a word you're saying. BioEnchanted posted:In the Episode White Hole Yes. BioEnchanted posted:Holly's IQ is boosted greatly from the usual 6000 all the way to 12000 Right. BioEnchanted posted:However this is too much for her to handle Yes. BioEnchanted posted:so her lifespan reduces to ~2 minutes With you. BioEnchanted posted:so she shuts herself down to conserve energy. Oh. BioEnchanted posted:The above statement is Rimmer trying to cram all the information he has into the short time she'll take to turn back off Ah. BioEnchanted posted:Oh poo poo I think you were just doing Holly's reaction to that outburst, I'm a loving idiot Right. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Jun 25, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2017 09:37
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I need to watch that episode again. I only just remembered Talkie Toaster features.
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Jun 25, 2017 09:51
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A delightfully creepy episode I hadn't been spoiled on the fact the guy hanging out with Bill was in fact Simms until he peeled his face off, so that was a neat twist "A positive attitude will help with the horror to come." "What horror?" "Mainly the tea." "When you hug me, it hurts my heart." "Aw, sweet." "No, your chest piece, it digs right in." Fingers crossed Moffat has the balls to keep Bill "dead" and not pull a Clara on us
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Jun 25, 2017 09:51
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The soundtrack was really amazing this episode. It reminds me of classic Hollywood films with how it just keeps going. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG9YwohxI0g I particularly like the tense elevator music at 16:00 of this track And More fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Jun 25, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2017 09:57
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