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Son of a Vondruke! posted:I just don't see Vampire being a good fit. Vampires don't seem like they'd do too well in a ship on the open ocean. The crews of those ships were really packed in like sardines. There was basically no privacy whatsoever. Feeding would definitely be a problem. Unless the entire crew was ghouls or dominated. Yes. That's why they take captives. Ask Loomer about my failed vampirates game and his awesome character
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Jul 7, 2017 06:50
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Son of a Vondruke! posted:I just don't see Vampire being a good fit. Vampires don't seem like they'd do too well in a ship on the open ocean. The crews of those ships were really packed in like sardines. There was basically no privacy whatsoever. Feeding would definitely be a problem. Unless the entire crew was ghouls or dominated. Nah. It's sort of hard to break the Masquerade in any way people would notice or care about, on the open ocean in the 1600s. A vampire could just vamp out at will and eat the whole loving ship, Dio Brando style, and not a drat soul would know or care except "uh this ship's crew vanished, wtf is the deal?" e: alternate option, an entire ship of vampirates that feeds off the human galley slaves. This is why Hunter needs to be an option for pirate era, because Amistad with vampires sounds like Extremely My poo poo.
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Jul 7, 2017 07:34
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Pirate Hunter haha yes!
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Jul 7, 2017 07:36
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Nah. It's sort of hard to break the Masquerade in any way people would notice or care about, on the open ocean in the 1600s. A vampire could just vamp out at will and eat the whole loving ship, Dio Brando style, and not a drat soul would know or care except "uh this ship's crew vanished, wtf is the deal?"
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Jul 7, 2017 07:43
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Nessus posted:Dio Brando nothing; this is literally what Dracula did on his way to England. ...you know what, you're actually right. For some reason my mind went to JoJo and not Dracula when I thought of that.
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Jul 7, 2017 08:59
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I'm sure vampirates would be awesome in play, it just seems like the logistics of the concept of might be a little too "wacky" for the typical edgy turbo-goth audience. This IS supposed to be decided by a vote.
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Jul 7, 2017 09:15
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Son of a Vondruke! posted:I'm sure vampirates would be awesome in play, it just seems like the logistics of the concept of might be a little too "wacky" for the typical edgy turbo-goth audience. This IS supposed to be decided by a vote.
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Jul 7, 2017 09:58
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If I was a pirate vampire I would be sort of freaked out by the fact that every time my ship was hit by a cannon the air and would be filled with huge wooden splinters.
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Jul 7, 2017 15:05
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:...you know what, you're actually right. For some reason my mind went to JoJo and not Dracula when I thought of that. WoD vampires have always been more JoJo than Brahm Stoker. Even down to their traditional fabulousness.
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Jul 7, 2017 15:07
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sleepy.eyes posted:If I was a pirate vampire I would be sort of freaked out by the fact that every time my ship was hit by a cannon the air and would be filled with huge wooden splinters. Still better off than a human. Any amount of shrapnel anywhere would be devastating to a human, and getting a piece lodged in your heart would be fatal. By contrast a vampire is only at significant risk if a piece gets stuck in their heart, and even then it only takes them out of commission until further notice. e: which could of course be an effective instakill especially on the open seas, but its still way better than what a human gets
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Jul 7, 2017 15:37
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Fire's still a problem, but the good news is that being worried about even the slightest fire on a wooden ship is completely sane and normal for everyone. Avoiding sunlight might be a bit of a trick sometimes tho.
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Jul 7, 2017 15:40
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Blockhouse posted:Vampire and Changeling feel like they make the most sense for pirate times It's just going to be what a few people want. I won't expect Vampire to win anything, for whatever reason the popular kids in OP don't like it. The Lasombra in WoD are apparently big on piracy, the man himself sometimes appears as a Kraken-ish monster and he's got some loyal handmaiden pirate queens. nofather fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jul 7, 2017 |
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Jul 7, 2017 16:08
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Terrorforge posted:Still better off than a human. Any amount of shrapnel anywhere would be devastating to a human, and getting a piece lodged in your heart would be fatal. By contrast a vampire is only at significant risk if a piece gets stuck in their heart, and even then it only takes them out of commission until further notice. True, but getting pelted with flying wood is the exception rather than the rule most places I can think of other than in a lumberjack camp or a wooden ship under attack. It just seems like a pointlessly risky move to me. Which is to say I wouldn't do that poo poo, but if everyone else wants to go pirate I wouldn't fight it. The only other thing I would be worried about is what happens to you if the ship sinks during the day? You'd have to rely on your sailors/slaves to get you in a coffin or whatever and get it into a boat before the ship sinks. I imagine you'd be pretty hosed in that situation. e: I play very little WW, I just enjoy lurking so if I missed something obvious my feelings won't be hurt if you point it out.
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Jul 7, 2017 23:06
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sleepy.eyes posted:True, but getting pelted with flying wood is the exception rather than the rule most places I can think of other than in a lumberjack camp or a wooden ship under attack. It just seems like a pointlessly risky move to me. Which is to say I wouldn't do that poo poo, but if everyone else wants to go pirate I wouldn't fight it. I'd imagine that the typical vampire reaction to being on a sinking boat would be to go down until the sun stops hitting you and then walk along the bottom until you hit shore.
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Jul 7, 2017 23:11
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citybeatnik posted:I'd imagine that the typical vampire reaction to being on a sinking boat would be to go down until the sun stops hitting you and then walk along the bottom until you hit shore. and possibly going the wrong way and wandering deeper into the ocean for several hundred miles
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Jul 7, 2017 23:33
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sleepy.eyes posted:True, but getting pelted with flying wood is the exception rather than the rule most places I can think of other than in a lumberjack camp or a wooden ship under attack. It just seems like a pointlessly risky move to me. Which is to say I wouldn't do that poo poo, but if everyone else wants to go pirate I wouldn't fight it. I mean, you're not wrong. There are many excellent reasons vampires tend to hole up in cities and bicker over feudal fiefs instead of living a nomadic lifestyle of any kind, and the fact that they're generally stuck in the sun if their travel arrangements fall through is a big one. But that's kind of what makes it interesting. Going to sea was and is dangerous for humans, too, but we find reasons to do it. Vampires can, too. Maybe they're just sailors by trade and don't know what else to do. Maybe it's the only place they can escape the incessant politicking of the cities. Maybe they figure they can best leverage their vampiric gifts into wealth and power by engaging in piracy. Basically while a vampire might need somewhat stronger incentives, they might set sail for any of the reasons a mortal might. Plus any number of uniquely WoD-y ones, such as firmly believing you belong to the undead army of the Norse god Loki and you need to prepare for Ragnarök by doing viking stuff. e: Xinder posted:and possibly going the wrong way and wandering deeper into the ocean for several hundred miles Poor, poor Elder Hardluck
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Jul 7, 2017 23:34
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Do vampires get resistance to pressure damage? Depending on where their boat was when it sunk, that might be an issue.
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Jul 7, 2017 23:34
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Valid concerns. At the same time, being on a ship offers three things to the wily vampire. First, it guarantees a herd. That herd may not be exactly happy about it without liberal applications of ghouling or dominate, but that just means either you need to be a badass, a sneakass, or a wiseass. However, feeding sparingly on a crew of 50 will - while giving them all a long term case of anemia - probably pass unnoticed, because even though pirate ships tended to be a little 'roomier' than navy ships (navy ships were actually grotesquely overpacked for their size, because when your whole purpose is to get into big fights you want a lot of spare parts - and you also want to eke every bit of performance out them. Pirate ships have the same concerns, of course, but far smaller recruitment pools) disease is still rampant, as is drunkenness, and the combination means that if Jim wakes up feeling tired and groggy, he'll more likely blame going hard on the grog the night before than the supernatural predator in their midst. Second, it provides excellent protection from your enemies. It is actually very hard to find a ship on the open ocean if it steers out of the usual trade lanes, and unless they got on before it left port, good luck to them finding your rear end - at least without a lot of effort or without you wanting to be found. Third, it provides an extraordinary opportunity to amass wealth and information, and to gently caress with the plans of your landbound enemies if they're on a coast. Money may not mean life or death to a vampire as much as it does to a human, but a sack full of rubies and diamonds speaks to everyone to one degree or another - as does a barrel full of cocoa beans, coffee, rum, or a hold of slaves. But better yet is knowing from logs and interrogations just what the Prince of Port-au-Prince is calling for from Europe's vampire courts, though you'll need to read between the lines for that. The vampire pirate's existence does have risks above and beyond that of the average vampire. This is no different to the pirate compared to the average man, or even most PCs to the average example of their kind. A safe existence is usually a boring existence - and a dangerous existence, at least for a tabletop game, brings large rewards. Why go? For the three reasons above, or because your options on land are limited, or because you were a sailor before you were turned and like hell are you letting a little thing like being an undead abomination that craves blood stop you from being with your sea-wife. There's also risk mitigation strategies. One thing our popular conception of the pirate ignores is armour. The golden age of piracy is earlier than a lot of people picture - roughly 1650 to 1726. Armour was falling out of fashion, but hadn't disappeared yet, and marines still sometimes wore a cuirass or a modified one that cut down on weight. Some pirates did the same, and there's nothing keeping our vampirate from doing likewise. A hefty chunk of steel will protect the heart from flying splinters unless you're extremely unlucky, and when you can't drown, the weight isn't such a concern. Fire is a major risk, but it is to everyone on board, and by this time shipbuilders and crews had learned a lot of 'oh gently caress put that out!' response strategies. Sunlight is also a concern, but there are two places it can't hurt you. First, where it can't see you - and there are many below decks spaces in even a small ship in which a person who needs no air and is unfettered by disease can slither into where the sun will literally never shine, like the bilge. Second is where it can't reach you, and that's deep in the ocean. Even if your ship sinks, you will be safe from the sun if it sinks deep enough and safe from it inside the hull until dark. It wouldn't be a pleasant experience, but it also wouldn't be too difficult for a vampire with any kind of strength or cunning to survive a shallow wreck. Deep wrecks are a much darker scenario, but if your ship has completely sunk in the middle of the ocean you done hosed up somewhere anyway. But how would the vampirate get back to shore? This is where 'I don't need to breathe, sucker!' comes in. If you recall the first Pirates movie, there's a funny scene where they sneak about using an overturned rowboat for an air bubble, holding it down on the sea floor. The same principle is essentially in play, only instead of an air bubble, it's more like a hermit crab's shell. Walk and carry, and when the sun comes out and begins to burn even through the water, let it drop and curl up under it for the day. Rinse and repeat until starvation takes hold or you re-emerge on land. As for the deep... Well, you're hosed. You aren't coming back without an incredible amount of fortitude or the ability to teleport, change shape into a whale, or extraordinary luck. But this isn't much of a difference from the average crewman either. Few could actually swim, so if their ship went down in the middle of the ocean, they were hosed. Even those who could were hosed, because when you're talking deep ocean you're usually quite far off shore, and only the lucky few with liferafts and debris and luck on their side would ever see land again. Your mortality risk, as a vampire, is probably actually lower in most other respects than the crew's - again, immune to disease, a cannon taking your arm off won't kill you, hiding places from the sun are easy, and being downed in shallow water is more inconvenience than death sentence.
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Jul 7, 2017 23:38
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I feel like eventually the stake's going to rot away. Hope you've got enough blood left to start moving around again when that happens! Also, Masquerade vampires are ridiculously vulnerable to sunlight compared to basically every other kind of vampire-if there's enough light under the water to see without Disciplines or artificial lights, there's enough to start dealing sunlight damage. Good luck!
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Jul 7, 2017 23:38
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Prism posted:Do vampires get resistance to pressure damage? Depending on where their boat was when it sunk, that might be an issue. I haven't read the second edition, but 1e Requiem specifically noted that vampires could probably survive the crushing pressure of the deep sea, and then asks what the hell kind of chronicle you're running anyway. It's kind of a moot point, though. Unless you have some gnarly powers (that probably would have prevented you from ending up in this situation in the first place) it's going to take you forever to climb out of the abyss and you'll probably just go into torpor at the bottom of the ocean.
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Jul 7, 2017 23:39
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Loomer posted:Rinse and repeat until starvation takes hold ha, i forgot about this. yeah i can only imagine spending weeks walking along the ocean floor and getting so close to land only to hit the limits of your bloodless body and falling into torpor under a heavy piece of boat at the bottom of the ocean
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Jul 7, 2017 23:44
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Xinder posted:and possibly going the wrong way and wandering deeper into the ocean for several hundred miles That's a mental image that I can't stop laughing at. Pope Guilty posted:I feel like eventually the stake's going to rot away. Hope you've got enough blood left to start moving around again when that happens! If I recall the clanbook properly, the reason why Lasombra have a history of being pirates/corsairs is due to them finding the abyssal depths of the sea calling out to them. Loomer posted:It wouldn't be a pleasant experience, but it also wouldn't be too difficult for a vampire with any kind of strength or cunning to survive a shallow wreck. Deep wrecks are a much darker scenario, but if your ship has completely sunk in the middle of the ocean you done hosed up somewhere anyway. But how would the vampirate get back to shore? This is where 'I don't need to breathe, sucker!' comes in. If you recall the first Pirates movie, there's a funny scene where they sneak about using an overturned rowboat for an air bubble, holding it down on the sea floor. The same principle is essentially in play, only instead of an air bubble, it's more like a hermit crab's shell. Walk and carry, and when the sun comes out and begins to burn even through the water, let it drop and curl up under it for the day. Rinse and repeat until starvation takes hold or you re-emerge on land. That's a survival technique talked about in the Guide to the Anarchs if you're mobile and don't want to risk having your trunk opened up. Drag your reinforced sleeping/body bag in behind you and keep a towel/stash of dry clothes near by. Mind, this is the same section that talked about how roadkill can make an excellent snack if you don't bother to breathe. And has a bit where a pair of idiot redneck Anarchs lock still-living hikers in to fridges filled with ice blocks.
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Jul 7, 2017 23:44
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IIRC Mark Rein-Hagen once talked about an early idea for Revenants where vampires who lost their humanity would be drawn to the deepest reaches of the ocean, where'd they'd form bizarre, inhuman societies.
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Jul 7, 2017 23:46
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Loomer posted:First, it guarantees a herd. That herd may not be exactly happy about it without liberal applications of ghouling or dominate, but that just means either you need to be a badass, a sneakass, or a wiseass. However, feeding sparingly on a crew of 50 will - while giving them all a long term case of anemia - probably pass unnoticed, because even though pirate ships tended to be a little 'roomier' than navy ships (navy ships were actually grotesquely overpacked for their size, because when your whole purpose is to get into big fights you want a lot of spare parts - and you also want to eke every bit of performance out them. Pirate ships have the same concerns, of course, but far smaller recruitment pools) disease is still rampant, as is drunkenness, and the combination means that if Jim wakes up feeling tired and groggy, he'll more likely blame going hard on the grog the night before than the supernatural predator in their midst. I think this is a bit more complicated if instead of one vampire it's a coterie (as would likely be the case if you're actually playing a game set on the high seas). Four or five vampires would be a bit easier to notice feeding on a crew of 50 for months on end without the use of dominate or just ghouling the whole crew.
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Jul 7, 2017 23:52
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Absolutely. The more vampires you add, the more strained logistics become anywhere, but especially in a closed systeem. Pirate ships do have an advantage on that front which is that boarding actions are basically a sea of free blood for the drinking, and captive mortality rates are usually pretty high already so if one or three more die of 'fatigue' on the way to market it won't be especially noticeable, but a closer Bloodsucking Parasite:Hardworking Pirate Sailor ratio will definitely require more careful management.
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Jul 7, 2017 23:56
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Xinder posted:ha, i forgot about this. yeah i can only imagine spending weeks walking along the ocean floor and getting so close to land only to hit the limits of your bloodless body and falling into torpor under a heavy piece of boat at the bottom of the ocean If you have the vampire get discovered by a deep-sea diving team in modern day then you'd have a really fun, if silly character idea. People keep thinking he's just a big dumb Jack Sparrow fan but no he's actually a fuckin' pirate from 1716 who hasn't quite clued in to modern day culture.
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Jul 8, 2017 00:04
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Slimnoid posted:If you have the vampire get discovered by a deep-sea diving team in modern day then you'd have a really fun, if silly character idea. Important question before I steal this idea: how much Potence do you need to use a cannon as a sidearm?
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Jul 8, 2017 00:05
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Loomer posted:Absolutely. The more vampires you add, the more strained logistics become anywhere, but especially in a closed systeem. Pirate ships do have an advantage on that front which is that boarding actions are basically a sea of free blood for the drinking, and captive mortality rates are usually pretty high already so if one or three more die of 'fatigue' on the way to market it won't be especially noticeable, but a closer Bloodsucking Parasite:Hardworking Pirate Sailor ratio will definitely require more careful management. Also if you're already enough of a renegade to be a pirate, you can't discount the possibility you don't give a poo poo if your crew knows. "Hey boys, your captain can mind control people so they strike their colors, cut a man in half in one swing, and dodge bullets. Is that worth passing the blood cup around occasionally? Aye, I bet it is." E: I mean, hell, that could be the entire reason the character wants to go to sea. What are the people trying to keep vampires secret going to do, hunt down their ship and hang them? The same thing they were already going to do to pirates? Night10194 fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 00:08
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Night10194 posted:Also if you're already enough of a renegade to be a pirate, you can't discount the possibility you don't give a poo poo if your crew knows. "Hey boys, your captain can mind control people so they strike their colors, cut a man in half in one swing, and dodge bullets. Is that worth passing the blood cup around occasionally? Aye, I bet it is." Honestly stuff like that isn't far off from what people used to claim about actual pirate captains back in the day.
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Jul 8, 2017 00:16
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citybeatnik posted:Important question before I steal this idea: how much Potence do you need to use a cannon as a sidearm? I reckon three'd do ya.
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Jul 8, 2017 00:17
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ZeroCount posted:Honestly stuff like that isn't far off from what people used to claim about actual pirate captains back in the day. Having a gimmick in piracy is good, it gets people to give up and let you take their poo poo faster!
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Jul 8, 2017 00:20
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Night10194 posted:Having a gimmick in piracy is good, it gets people to give up and let you take their poo poo faster! Which is how you end up with stuff like Hornigold capturing a ship just to replace the hats his crew had thrown away while drunk. Loomer posted:I reckon three'd do ya. Excellent.
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Jul 8, 2017 00:22
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And then, of course, Pirate Hunters show up. With more capital H on the Hunter part. Because swashbuckling battles with crazy people out to hunt down supernatural pirates would also be rad.
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Jul 8, 2017 00:24
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Night10194 posted:And then, of course, Pirate Hunters show up. With more capital H on the Hunter part. Because swashbuckling battles with crazy people out to hunt down supernatural pirates would also be rad. Hunters can be pirates themselves too. I mean, plenty of people became pirate captains because they were Jacobites or other had other political issues with the current government. Why not because you know it's infiltrated with evil vampires, witches and catholics?
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Jul 8, 2017 00:29
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Pope Guilty posted:IIRC Mark Rein-Hagen once talked about an early idea for Revenants where vampires who lost their humanity would be drawn to the deepest reaches of the ocean, where'd they'd form bizarre, inhuman societies.
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Jul 8, 2017 00:31
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citybeatnik posted:Important question before I steal this idea: how much Potence do you need to use a cannon as a sidearm? Mind you, this is a bit different from Loomer's answer because nWoD characters tend to be a little more grounded and a little less like superheroes/supervillains than oWoD characters. 
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Jul 8, 2017 00:31
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Basically a Golden Age of Piracy game could be full of all kinds of crazy supernaturals out on the high seas to escape the stultifying grime of the World of Darkness, having a brief, romantic, and incredibly violent escape.
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Jul 8, 2017 00:32
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Slimnoid posted:If you have the vampire get discovered by a deep-sea diving team in modern day then you'd have a really fun, if silly character idea. Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:If a given Vampire game doesn't include one PC whose origin story is "yeah I vaguely remember old poo poo but I woke up like a year ago and I know, without knowing, that I should never go back to Prague" I feel like it's neglecting one of the best parts of the concept. Also one of the example Acanthus characters in the 2e mage core book is a dude who doesn't know what a computer is but does know to rig a sail, has no memories of his home but does dream of cannons and clashing swords and has no clue what kind of deal he made to end up like this but is pretty drat sure he doesn't want to know.
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Jul 8, 2017 00:32
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citybeatnik posted:Important question before I steal this idea: how much Potence do you need to use a cannon as a sidearm? According to From Software, 30 strength. Given actual cannons in naval history you could probably swing a small one with only a few times maximum human strength?
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Jul 8, 2017 00:34
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Night10194 posted:Basically a Golden Age of Piracy game could be full of all kinds of crazy supernaturals out on the high seas to escape the stultifying grime of the World of Darkness, having a brief, romantic, and incredibly violent escape. It could easily fit all the splats. Even Mummy with some weird proto-Egyptian golden ship manned by a crew of cultists and the ghosts of cultists past searching for the relics cast into the sea by (insert evil name here).
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