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 This is minecraft, the only forms of modding that is terrible is DRM, buildcraft, exploding bees, better than wolves, and people that threaten legal action against people using their mods.
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Jul 20, 2017 21:46
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frenzy posted:No one else agrees that keepinventory=true lessens the game? Really? I'm the only person here with that opinion, ok that's fine you're still all wrong Are you one of these people that gets butthurt about difficulty options in your hardcore games?
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Jul 20, 2017 22:16
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I made fun of someone for saying they keepinventory=true and how that's the only way to play and then like ten people attacked me over it, yes apparently I am the butthurt sperg that only posts for attention
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Jul 20, 2017 22:20
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frenzy posted:I made fun of someone for saying they keepinventory=true and how that's the only way to play and then like ten people attacked me over it, yes apparently I am the butthurt sperg that only posts for attention
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Jul 20, 2017 22:22
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lol "Sorry if you're a slave" get the gently caress out with your lovely modpack, idiot
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Jul 20, 2017 22:27
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frenzy posted:I made fun of someone for saying they keepinventory=true and how that's the only way to play and then like ten people attacked me over it, yes apparently I am the butthurt sperg that only posts for attention Your lack of self awareness is amazing
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Jul 20, 2017 22:27
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i dont play with keep inventory but I do always add a mod that spawns a chest or gravestone or whatever
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Jul 20, 2017 22:33
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When the gently caress has combat in Minecraft ever been fun enough to justify any punishing consequences for dealing with a horde of idiot fucker mobs constantly stuck in their iframes while they animationlessly manage to rack up 60 hearts of damage on you while you sit there bouncing around like a dumbass until you die? Not only is the combat in Minecraft yet another stupid afterthought Notch added simply because it's in other games, the consequences are too. On top of that, even if there are mods to lessen the impact of dying (grave mods), there haven't been any mods that make combat interesting enough to be loving bothered with it. You're either totally swamped by mobs and destroyed or you look at them funny and the fuckers all collapse, there's no middle ground because it's never been a well-designed aspect of the game and not even modders feel like overhauling it is worthwhile. Hostile mobs are fine at best and whatever at worst, but don't delude yourself into thinking that they're for anything more than an extremely early-game challenge first and atmosphere second. And no, Grimoire of Gaia titty-girl mobs, Cacodemons, COCKRUSTING COMBUSTION ANTIGRAVITY CHODESTEALING GATTLING IRRITABLE BOWEL SKELETONS or what-the-gently caress-ever don't make combat interesting, they're just adding variety to a system that is still a loving slog. edit: Minecraft doesn't need "challenge" beyond the ability to plan things out, gather the resources, and build cool poo poo. If you want an exciting and compelling experience that gets your adrenaline pumping there are a million other games that do that way better. If you're not deriving at least 99.9% of your enjoyment of this game from building cool poo poo (buildings/tunnels/sculptures/ore processing machine arrays/quarries/railways/etc. etc.) then I don't know what the gently caress to tell you. Fortis fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 20, 2017 |
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Jul 20, 2017 22:33
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Minecraft's punishment for death has always been weirdly aggressive, and the analogy to Dark Souls implies you either never played any of the souls games or just got one step into the analogy and gave up, considering your argument as foolproof as ever. In Dark Souls souls are a means to an end - you buy gear, you upgrade gear, you gain levels. And every single one of those is permanent once you spend the souls, so you have a risk/reward balance that is compelling and interesting. In Minecraft, many of the things you gain are used to make other things you hold onto. Storing items is trivial (because of chests), but many of the things you spend hours and hours and hours making or gathering have to be in your inventory to be useful or usable. It's almost the inverse of the Dark Souls system - imagine if souls were infinite but equipment could be lost on death. It would make the games ridiculously frustrating. Edit: I'd even agree that running MC in keepInventory mode does remove something from it, but mostly what it removes is bullshit tedium instead of anything fun.
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Jul 20, 2017 22:50
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Fortis posted:When the gently caress has combat in Minecraft ever been fun enough to justify any punishing consequences for dealing with a horde of idiot fucker mobs constantly stuck in their iframes while they animationlessly manage to rack up 60 hearts of damage on you while you sit there bouncing around like a dumbass until you die? Not only is the combat in Minecraft yet another stupid afterthought Notch added simply because it's in other games, the consequences are too. On top of that, even if there are mods to lessen the impact of dying (grave mods), there haven't been any mods that make combat interesting enough to be loving bothered with it. You're either totally swamped by mobs and destroyed or you look at them funny and the fuckers all collapse, there's no middle ground because it's never been a well-designed aspect of the game and not even modders feel like overhauling it is worthwhile. In all fairness to frenzy, he DID make a whole modpack around the combat in MC, so he at least seems consistent there.
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Jul 20, 2017 22:52
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frenzy posted:The question of keepinventory=true goes way beyond Minecraft itself and indeed, strikes into the heart and soul behind the purpose of why people play videogames in the first place, which is why I find it interesting. It makes you look deep inside, and ask yourself straight to your face, Why am I doing this? If Dark Souls let you keep your souls when you die, would people still lose their minds over it? A lot of people aren't a fan of Dark Souls, I get that, but ask yourself, if when everytime you died in Mario you started again exactly where you died would you still have such fond memories? If in every racing game you came in 1st regardless of pole position, are you really winning? These questions delve into the depths of why we do what we do. You could say Minecraft is a bad example because of the combat, which you'd be right if you approached combat head on, but escaping mobs can be fun too and I'd argue there might even be other ways to improve combat using certain mods specifically ones that add projectile weapons which I may or may not be working on myself but I'm telling you man, if you haven't ran through a cave with a pack of 20 random infernal lycanites mobs chasing you while you grab diamonds and emeralds left and right all while dodging attacks, buffed up on enchanted apples and Pam's pizza then escaped by blasting out an opening to the surface with an armored jetpack or MPS then you don't even know what you're missing cus it's fun af frenzy posted:You can't ignore how losing your inventory is the only consequence of death in Minecraft and by disabling that you're removing the only incentive to not die defeating the purpose of dying at all also have you heard of a bed. It changes your spawn point. Walking back to your death place isn't required, there are items that can get you back there. You don't have the same level of excitement over making it through the cave run unscathed if dying is meaningless, much like if you kept your souls do I really need to illustrate that? Removing the souls mechanic would completely change the game I don't even know how those words made it from your brain to your fingertips without you realizing this. If playing without absolutely any threat is the same as playing with a threat why keepinventory at all Haven't checked the minecraft thread in years, how's the modding scene now e: whoops I accidentally quoted an extremely stupid man
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Jul 20, 2017 22:55
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Boy, though, can you imagine how fun minecraft (modded or otherwise) Would be if the combat was actually as fun as in a game like dark souls? I mean not even the difficulty aspect in any way, but fun as in 'fun to experience, not just a thing to gate other progress'. That's the #1 thing I'm always surprised that minecraft clone type games basically always get wrong: they don't really fix the combat.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:03
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I also play with keepInventory=true because this is a sandbox game with a million options and hundreds of mods to make the game "fun" on a personal level.frenzy posted:sorry if you're a slave and don't have time in life to enjoy videogames. How about you go gently caress yourself you literal child.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:10
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Falcon2001 posted:In all fairness to frenzy, he DID make a whole modpack around the combat in MC, so he at least seems consistent there. Right, and if he wants to call the combat or dealing with mobs in general fun I'm not going to call him a retard, but I will try to throw him a lifeline and describe why he's wrong.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:11
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It's really, really hard to do first person melee combat well. I think the Dishonored games came closest in recent memory while still keeping the combat somewhat challenging, and they did so despite clunky controls that weren't in the least particularly responsive and very shaky mechanical interactions. Those games got by on the strength of the toolkit they gave you and how impactful every swing felt. Minecraft was always waging a losing proposition.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:14
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Toadsmash posted:It's really, really hard to do first person melee combat well. I think the Dishonored games came closest in recent memory while still keeping the combat somewhat challenging, and they did so despite clunky controls that weren't in the least particularly responsive and very shaky mechanical interactions. Those games got by on the strength of the toolkit they gave you and how impactful every swing felt. Minecraft was always waging a losing proposition. True, but they failed on another level. Even bows and their place in minecraft feels pretty lovely, so it doesn't come down to just melee. Or here's a tip, how about your sword 'swing' actually having an arc where it hits instead of (seemingly) projecting an invisible bullet to see if an enemy was directly under your crosshair when you clicked and THEN having a swing (that can hit multiple enemies). Or you know, any other level of interaction there. There are plenty of other games over time with better melee combat including (granted, ALSO from Arkane) Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. Or you know, basically anything.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:21
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frenzy posted:I am the butthurt sperg that only posts for attention
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Jul 20, 2017 23:21
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Okay frenzy's got the rage but I also see frenzy coming from an angle that appreciates a lot more of the exploration aspects of the game. You're heading out somewhere unknown and there should be some risk to it. I think this contrasts generally with base building which is more of a puzzle solving kind of game. I've wished there were some augmentations to make exploration more fun and had been hoping that the scaling health mod was it. I'm not sure though. It looks like it really does focus on increasing the mob's health and sometimes giving them some stat boosts. However, I feel like bumping health isn't necessarily fun because it sometimes comes down to just wailing away at a mob. I guess the idea is that a mob with too high of a health is one you run away from, but there's go to be some point where you should be able to nail a 2,000HP mob, but no mods normally give you some means towards that. Basically, I want there to be something like a square kilometer around spawn that is pretty safe--possibly even safer than vanilla. It's oregen is also kind of lousy. Say, only Y=50+ stuff normally shows up there. When leaving that region, mobs get more difficult in general--and hopefully in a manner better than just jacking up their health. Say, different mobs start showing up and the rate and effects of any infernal effects increase. The different resources also increase. Dungeon mods and such would also be given higher chances to generate. There would be a point where you'd get the normal diamonds at Y=12 stuff, but if you keep going, they would be on the surface, although the mobs would be very difficult then. To make it manageable on a server, it would reach a peak and then subside eventually to another safe square kilometer some regular distance away. This would give admins some manner of assign people different spots if they wanted to be spread out. It requires a lot of integration with various mods, so I don't expect it to happen anytime soon unless it's easy to override their behaviors in general. I never really got into the modding nitty-gritty details so I don't know how feasible stuff like that is.
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Jul 20, 2017 23:57
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Look man I didn't come out of the gate slinging vitriol, I made a lighthearted joke and people lost their minds thinking it's appropriate to talk literal poo poo over it. Don't start name calling because someone has a different opinion, I mean I'm just saying keepinventory=true lessens the game experience for me, you don't have to take it personally and call me a fuckface or imbecile or whatever. like do y'all cowards even keepinventory=false. Even in a pack like COTT where everyone incessantly comes to this thread to cry about how rare it is it's really not even that hard to survive just run away and build a base then when you do tech up and make something cool I guarantee you're gona feel 100% more satisfied because you actually struggled for it as opposed to just moving things around a crafting grid and then placing them in the world. This is just a very basic principle of videogames and life in general Somebody fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 00:08
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frenzy posted:Look man I didn't come out of the gate slinging vitriol, I made a lighthearted joke and people lost their minds thinking it's appropriate to talk literal poo poo over it. Don't start name calling because someone has a different opinion, I mean I'm just saying keepinventory=true lessens the game experience for me, you don't have to take it personally and call me a fuckface or imbecile or whatever. And you were doing so well for yourself right up until you started that second paragraph.
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Jul 21, 2017 00:22
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lol @ all of this
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Jul 21, 2017 00:22
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Fayk posted:And you were doing so well for yourself right up until you started that second paragraph. It's a meme ok it's ok I wasn't seriously calling anyone a coward DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:lol @ all of this I think this whole thing is a perfect example of how the modern trend of working our lives away leaves little to no room to objectively analyze and discuss these issues
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Jul 21, 2017 00:36
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a man chooses, a slave obeys *kills awful modpack with pixelated golf club*
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Jul 21, 2017 00:47
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frenzy posted:
Bertrand Russell would have used keepinventory
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Jul 21, 2017 00:48
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So that's what, 3 months since we last had a keepinventory fight? For me it depends on the modpack, some are pretty fair and I'm ok with risking my gear. Some have bullshit I'm not willing to put up with. I really don't care who draws the line where for their own funtime playing a videogame.
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Jul 21, 2017 00:55
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chairface posted:So that's what, 3 months since we last had a keepinventory fight? For me it depends on the modpack, some are pretty fair and I'm ok with risking my gear. Some have bullshit I'm not willing to put up with. I really don't care who draws the line where for their own funtime playing a videogame. but have you considered being passive aggressive about it and then posting multiple long screeds about how people are wrong
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Jul 21, 2017 00:57
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Johnny Joestar posted:but have you considered being passive aggressive about it and then posting multiple long screeds about how people are wrong I am p sure that if we were to take 1000 random people and have them play through the same modpack, half of them having access to /back /home and keepinventory while the other half had to use ingame functions, and then poll them about how much they enjoyed the pack, the people who did things ingame would report higher levels of enjoyment. It's a shame there's no hard data to support this because of course I think I'm right. I don't mean to be passive or aggressive about it, just passionate about it to the point where I keep trying to make a modpack that proves what I'm saying
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Jul 21, 2017 01:27
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You have incredibly warped and unhealthy opinions about difficulty in video games.
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Jul 21, 2017 01:29
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An actual Dark Souls equivalence would be like, lose all your ore and ingots when you die not lol you're turbofucked every time.
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Jul 21, 2017 01:52
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I want a mod that makes you only drop exp on death. Experience is a resource but you don't need it to survive and you can easily get more of it via a mob farm or some modded source. Much better than dropping your fully upgraded power armor or bag full of thaumcraft wand foci. Or all the ore you got from the past hour you spent mining. Though I guess dropping ore would be recoverable too, since you could still fight the mobs that killed you. If it was lava... well, you'd need a gravestone mod then.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:30
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the reason why dark souls has the drop mechanic is because it's a static world with reproducible combat and souls are an easily gathered non-expendable resource and it's ameliorated even further by having items that give you souls when used, and every souls game can be beaten by a reasonable player on souls gained from those & bosses alone, by design if you knew anything about game design you wouldn't ever try to make that flawed parallel Bhodi fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jul 21, 2017 |
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Jul 21, 2017 02:34
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McFrugal posted:I want a mod that makes you only drop exp on death. Yeah I've wanted this for a while too, you'd think they could split the rule between keepInventory and keepExperience or something.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:34
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experience is actually a fairly precious commodity in some modded packs  stuff that requires ender io progression in particular
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Jul 21, 2017 03:37
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On the other hand, it's usually easy to store. Ender IO only needs basic Nether resources to do it.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:41
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Again souls aren't comparable to items in MC for reasons people have already pointed out. Also in Dark Souls, souls can (ostensibly) always be regained with enough work and good playing. In Minecraft you can just have fire/explosions/lava destroy all your stuff the second it drops. frenzy posted:You can't ignore how losing your inventory is the only consequence of death in Minecraft and by disabling that you're removing the only incentive to not die defeating the purpose of dying at all also have you heard of a bed. It changes your spawn point. Walking back to your death place isn't required, there are items that can get you back there. You don't have the same level of excitement over making it through the cave run unscathed if dying is meaningless,
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Jul 21, 2017 03:47
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The problem with losing inventory on death is that it's either a) trivial to get your stuff back, in which case you're just wasting time, or b) extremely difficult, to the point you pretty much need to re-craft your weapons and armour, and still might not survive long enough to get there and back (e.g. dying in the nether in CotT), so it's almost easier to just write off your lost equipment and start fresh.
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Jul 21, 2017 03:51
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i can abide losing stuff on death but only if there's one of those gravestone mods having your stuff despawn if you don't make the corpse run fast enough is definitely bullshit
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Jul 21, 2017 03:57
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:having your stuff despawn if you don't make the corpse run fast enough is definitely bullshit
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Jul 21, 2017 05:41
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Where did "corpse run" originate, btw? I imagine it was named in Everquest but there may have been an older MMO that involved the mechanic. I don't know, I'm too young.
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Jul 21, 2017 05:44
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Probably MUDs, but I don't remember. I definitely remember it being used in EQ, but UO and Meridian 59 preceded it. I don't remember what death penalty was in M59 though.
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Jul 21, 2017 06:14
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