NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

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apropos man: Sep 5, 2016; You get a hundred and forty one thousand years and you're out in eight!

Cool. I'm gonna upgrade the pool and reboot.

# ? Jul 30, 2017 22:22

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 12:08

G-Prime: Apr 30, 2003; Baby, when it's love,
if it's not rough it isn't fun.

redeyes posted:

those are 5400rpm drives right? (or 5900?)

code:

smartctl 6.5 2016-05-07 r4318 [FreeBSD 11.0-STABLE amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-16, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, [url]www.smartmontools.org[/url]

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Device Model:     WDC WD80EFAX-68LHPN0
Serial Number:    xxxxxxxx
LU WWN Device Id: 5 000cca 252c6cc8f
Firmware Version: 83.H0A83
User Capacity:    8,001,563,222,016 bytes [8.00 TB]
Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
Rotation Rate:    5400 rpm
Form Factor:      3.5 inches
Device is:        Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]
ATA Version is:   ACS-2, ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 4
SATA Version is:  SATA 3.2, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
Local Time is:    Sun Jul 30 17:41:27 2017 CDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

# ? Jul 30, 2017 23:42

Desuwa: Jun 2, 2011; I'm telling my mommy. That pubbie doesn't do video games right!

Well, now that I have all the 8TB drives I need for my next build and still no release date for the new Intel Atom platform, I wasn't able to stop myself from dropping $200 on decommissioned server parts and required accessories to toss together a system to get my new drives spinning. The CPU is probably only a slight upgrade from my old Atom, and it'll suck a lot more power, but except for 10GbE I don't think I'm missing anything important.

I'm not even sure if I'll upgrade to the new Atoms, but if I do this ended up being cheap enough that, if nothing else, it'll make a good backup system so I'm not panicking to revive an old desktop at 5am when my next server decides to die.

# ? Aug 1, 2017 09:12

redeyes: Sep 14, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

quote:

but except for 10GbE I don't think I'm missing anything important.

But that is getting important with big arrays. Imagine getting more than 100MB/s performance..

# ? Aug 1, 2017 18:39

Desuwa: Jun 2, 2011; I'm telling my mommy. That pubbie doesn't do video games right!

redeyes posted:

But that is getting important with big arrays. Imagine getting more than 100MB/s performance..

Yeah I said there's nothing else important that it's missing. It'll probably come down, eventually, to deciding between a PCIe NIC or a new atom board.

# ? Aug 1, 2017 20:23

eightysixed: Sep 23, 2004; I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.

code:

RAW_READ_ERROR_RATE                       1048605
REALLOCATED_SECTOR_COUNT                  88
CURRENT_PENDING_SECTOR                    1

LIFETIME(HOURS)                           25379

This obviously needs immediate replacement, right? It's the harddrive I use at work :ohdear:

# ? Aug 2, 2017 19:22

BlankSystemDaemon: Mar 13, 2009

Unless you're running ZFS, I can almost guarantee that you've silently lost data.
If you're running ZFS, you'll at least know which file is corrupted, assuming it couldn't self-heal it.

# ? Aug 2, 2017 20:44

DrDork: Dec 29, 2003; commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

eightysixed posted:

code:
RAW_READ_ERROR_RATE                       1048605
REALLOCATED_SECTOR_COUNT                  88
CURRENT_PENDING_SECTOR                    1

LIFETIME(HOURS)                           25379
This obviously needs immediate replacement, right? It's the harddrive I use at work

Yes. Life-raft your data elsewhere immediately.

# ? Aug 2, 2017 21:03

eightysixed: Sep 23, 2004; I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.

D. Ebdrup posted:

Unless you're running ZFS, I can almost guarantee that you've silently lost data.
If you're running ZFS, you'll at least know which file is corrupted, assuming it couldn't self-heal it.

No ZFS - Just a regular harddrive in a regular i7 workstation

- I just asked here because it seemed like the most relevant thread.

DrDork posted:

Yes. Life-raft your data elsewhere immediately.

On it.

# ? Aug 2, 2017 21:16

cr0y: Mar 24, 2005

For the "prosumer"/IT guys here - Would you recommend building out a dedicated NAS or a beefy ESXi host and then a virtual NAS appliance in a home lab setting? I was kicking around the idea of building a freenas box, but then I thought, why not just build a monster ESXi host instead which gives me a lot more flexibility? The ESXi host might cost more upfront but I think the bells and whistles might make it worth while in the long run, thoughts?

# ? Aug 2, 2017 23:02

DrDork: Dec 29, 2003; commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Do you have anything else that you'd want to run a "native" VM for? FreeNAS has its own VM hypervisor, so if all you're intending to do is some penny-ante VM stuff (like I run a tiny Linux VM for Crashplan), you may not really get much out of ESXi.

Also, if you're not setting up anything particularly complex with FreeNAS in terms of shares and permissions, it's actually pretty quick to tear down and rebuild / reinstall, so it's not terribly painful to decide later on that you want an ESXi box and migrate over.

# ? Aug 2, 2017 23:24

cr0y: Mar 24, 2005

I am a vm admin by trade...so esxi just feels "right".

# ? Aug 2, 2017 23:31

DrDork: Dec 29, 2003; commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Fair enough, but if you don't have a real use for it, you're just making life harder on yourself, robbing your NAS of some performance, and inserting extra layers of failure opportunity for no gain.

It totally does work, though, as long as you can pass through the SATA controller(s).

# ? Aug 3, 2017 01:43

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

Since you're going with FreeNAS, if you need the thing to haul rear end, it'll need gobs of RAM (talking 16GB and more) and CPU to spare to run that 10GbE or faster adapter. Might as well go standalone.

# ? Aug 3, 2017 02:50

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE

cr0y posted:

For the "prosumer"/IT guys here - Would you recommend building out a dedicated NAS or a beefy ESXi host and then a virtual NAS appliance in a home lab setting?

The SAN-application server combo is a thing because it works real well. You don't have to have everything in one chassis, and you retain more ability to scale in more/different machines down the road if you want. Infiniband is real cheap nowadays, dual-4x QDR adapters, rack switches, and short QSFP cables are not bad at all.

I would actually go the other direction, overbuild the NAS and have that host VMs for now if you need. Might be a good idea to serve any databases on this machine too.

# ? Aug 3, 2017 03:20

BobHoward: Feb 13, 2012; The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull

D. Ebdrup posted:

Unless you're running ZFS, I can almost guarantee that you've silently lost data.
If you're running ZFS, you'll at least know which file is corrupted, assuming it couldn't self-heal it.

Eh. If the raw value of the uncorrectable error count (SMART attribute 187 decimal or BB hex) is still zero, barring firmware bugs in the drive he hasn't lost data. Yet.

eightysixed posted:

code:
RAW_READ_ERROR_RATE                       1048605
REALLOCATED_SECTOR_COUNT                  88
CURRENT_PENDING_SECTOR                    1

LIFETIME(HOURS)                           25379
This obviously needs immediate replacement, right? It's the harddrive I use at work

Whatever SMART reporting tool you got this out of, re-run it and see if you can find the uncorrectable error count I mentioned. Do that ASAP, and then once more after you're done copying all data off. If it's zero and stays zero, it is highly probable that you got everything off without loss. (The SMART uncorrectable error count is supposed to bump up by 1 every time the drive was asked to read a sector, and couldn't correct the data, meaning it ended up returning garbage.)

For future reference, don't worry about RAW_READ_ERROR_RATE. It's never straightforward to interpret and frequently will have insanely high looking values in a perfectly healthy drive. Reallocated sector count and current pending sectors are the important ones here.

# ? Aug 3, 2017 04:08

necrobobsledder: Mar 21, 2005; Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll; Nap Ghost

I do systems engineering for work and nowadays I'd rather not have to manage yet another set of VMs (although my machines at home are better managed historically than at work, sadly). Also, there's some disadvantages in performance running everything in ESXi in some instances. For example, I had pfSense running virtualized and pinned to certain CPUs and so forth to avoid latency spikes and so forth, but my aggregate network performance in latency and raw throughput with similar network parameters (MTU and other TCP tuning on the router) was 10% slower than the $50 Edgerouter X I setup and the latency was at least 100 microseconds better - dedicated hardware does matter and SDN doesn't fix all networking ails. And I can even try to manage my Edgerouter with Chef or Puppet - can't really do that easily with pfSense honestly either. I put all my eggs into one basket primarily because I wanted to run OS X on the VM (it was a pain in the rear but I got El Capitan working). Unfortunately, the VNIC options on a non-Apple machine leads to the reality that you can't use 10GbE and vmxnet awesomeness when you virtualize it under a ghetto budget situation.

My current migration path is to run CoreOS or CentOS with ZFS and containers for any service I run for easier maintenance (might use LXD instead of Docker containers). Also, I'm going to just run iTunes on a more heavyweight HTPC. My AppleTV rocks pretty hard, but wow does the wife just not want to let go of her physical FF/RW buttons (the scrubber control on AppleTV can't be overridden and works poorly with the FF/RW buttons from most remotes that map to such a function). So I've been getting around to a Plex Media Player setup once again. Sometimes I miss the XBMC box I never updated for like 3 years.

# ? Aug 3, 2017 04:10

eightysixed: Sep 23, 2004; I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.

eightysixed posted:

code:
RAW_READ_ERROR_RATE                       1048605
REALLOCATED_SECTOR_COUNT                  88
CURRENT_PENDING_SECTOR                    1

LIFETIME(HOURS)                           25379
This obviously needs immediate replacement, right? It's the harddrive I use at work

DrDork posted:

Yes. Life-raft your data elsewhere immediately.

Half way through life-rafting things I want (but don't need (thats not backed up off-site)) Reallocation is already up to 121. Chug, little hard drive, chug. I hope she makes it through the night Ticking time bomb. :ohdear:

At least I can finally find a use for this NIB Evo 850 that I've still never used :getin:

edit: The only reason I thought to check was because everything was crashing all the drat time, and opening super slow and HDD was steady pinged at 100%. My ole' i5 2500K with 32GB of RAM is about to get speedy again :allears:

eightysixed fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Aug 5, 2017

# ? Aug 5, 2017 01:17

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

So, I got my hands on some RAM and upgraded my home PowerEdge R710 and maxxed out the RAM.

Then, boot2docker went nuts on my FreeNAS/FreeBSD install and messed up the networking, had to fix that.

# ? Aug 6, 2017 03:09

necrobobsledder: Mar 21, 2005; Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll; Nap Ghost

300 GB of RAM... are you running a Hadoop cluster or a home server? The RAM's power draw alone might rival my 8-disk NAS box.

# ? Aug 6, 2017 16:10

redeyes: Sep 14, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

That is obscene.

I like it.

# ? Aug 6, 2017 17:08

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD: Jul 7, 2012

CommieGIR posted:

So, I got my hands on some RAM and upgraded my home PowerEdge R710 and maxxed out the RAM.

Then, boot2docker went nuts on my FreeNAS/FreeBSD install and messed up the networking, had to fix that.

*extremely zefram cochrane voice* sweet jesus

# ? Aug 6, 2017 17:21

DrDork: Dec 29, 2003; commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

CommieGIR posted:

I really do hope that FreeNAS 11 ports over the monitoring bits of Coral sooner rather than later. To have a NAS-appliance OS in 2017 that doesn't have any built-in way to monitor SMART status via the GUI is pretty damned dumb.

# ? Aug 6, 2017 19:05

redeyes: Sep 14, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

I have 7 hard drives in my main desktop PC and they are being used via HyperV in Windows 2016 server. At this point I don't want the HDs in my main box for various reasons. Is there a go-to way to mount them in an external enclosure/rack and connect that to Windows 10? I assume I would need something like a HBA and some type of cabling. I'd like high performance if necessary, at the bare minimum normal 150-200MB/s single drive speed.

# ? Aug 6, 2017 21:43

Combat Pretzel: Jun 23, 2004; No, seriously... what kurds?!

iSCSI and high-speed Ethernet. Some might also suggest Infiniband, but for some reason Ethernet works better here (I have ConnectX 3 VPI cards, which can do both). Of course, depending on how far away you want that SAN box, fiber is required, and that makes things more expensive.

# ? Aug 6, 2017 22:06

evol262: Nov 30, 2010; #!/usr/bin/perl

These are directly attached, right? You just want to move them out of the chassis?

eSATA with a port multiplier is fine.

# ? Aug 6, 2017 22:53

Incessant Excess: Aug 15, 2005; Cause of glitch:
Pretentiousness

Anyone have experience with the Western Digital My Cloud products? I've found a decent deal on the EX4100 with 8TB and I'm wondering if the things any good or not, would mainly be using it to store media and automatically download from Usenet.

This thing here https://www.amazon.com/EX4100-Expert-Network-Attached-Storage/dp/B00TB8XN2E

# ? Aug 7, 2017 16:19

Generic Monk: Oct 31, 2011

Incessant Excess posted:

Anyone have experience with the Western Digital My Cloud products? I've found a decent deal on the EX4100 with 8TB and I'm wondering if the things any good or not, would mainly be using it to store media and automatically download from Usenet.

This thing here https://www.amazon.com/EX4100-Expert-Network-Attached-Storage/dp/B00TB8XN2E

last i checked these weren't very good but it'll serve files as well as anything

# ? Aug 7, 2017 16:46

apropos man: Sep 5, 2016; You get a hundred and forty one thousand years and you're out in eight!

Is there such a thing as sticky pads for slapping onto the inside of a cupboard to create sound-proofing when you've got a PC in there?

Thanks for reading the above cumbersome sentence.

# ? Aug 7, 2017 19:35

DrDork: Dec 29, 2003; commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

apropos man posted:

Is there such a thing as sticky pads for slapping onto the inside of a cupboard to create sound-proofing when you've got a PC in there?

gently caress yeah there are.

For the reasonable man: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999222

For the overkill man: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8GS37V2935 (not self-stick, but some glue fixes that)

# ? Aug 7, 2017 19:44

apropos man: Sep 5, 2016; You get a hundred and forty one thousand years and you're out in eight!

Woohoo! More poo poo to waste my money on!

# ? Aug 7, 2017 21:38

redeyes: Sep 14, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

Combat Pretzel posted:

iSCSI and high-speed Ethernet. Some might also suggest Infiniband, but for some reason Ethernet works better here (I have ConnectX 3 VPI cards, which can do both). Of course, depending on how far away you want that SAN box, fiber is required, and that makes things more expensive.

Sorry, I want to put my array in my garage which isn't where my workstation is.. sounds like iSCSI and high speed Ethernet is probably the ticket. Distance is around 100 feet.

quote:

These are directly attached, right? You just want to move them out of the chassis?

Yeah kind of.. but over 100 feet'ish distance.

Is there a go-to iSCSI enclosure or is it the kind of thing you are better building your own box.

redeyes fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Aug 7, 2017

# ? Aug 7, 2017 21:57

evol262: Nov 30, 2010; #!/usr/bin/perl

redeyes posted:

Sorry, I want to put my array in my garage which isn't where my workstation is.. sounds like iSCSI and high speed Ethernet is probably the ticket. Distance is around 100 feet.

Yeah kind of.. but over 100 feet'ish distance.

Is there a go-to iSCSI enclosure or is it the kind of thing you are better building your own box.

You're not going to pull 150-200MB/s per-disk over gige, period, much less 7 disks at once. You're looking at 10Ge or infiniband (or FC) for that, and CPU load is going to matter.

How much performance do you actually need?

# ? Aug 7, 2017 22:10

DrDork: Dec 29, 2003; commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

evol262 posted:

You're not going to pull 150-200MB/s per-disk over gige, period, much less 7 disks at once. You're looking at 10Ge or infiniband (or FC) for that, and CPU load is going to matter.

If it's only one server to one client, Infiniband/FC is gonna end up being much cheaper than 10-GigE.

# ? Aug 7, 2017 23:43

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

necrobobsledder posted:

300 GB of RAM... are you running a Hadoop cluster or a home server? The RAM's power draw alone might rival my 8-disk NAS box.

Its running a VM cluster and Docker containers for plex, has a PERC 6/e connected to a MD1000 array, FreeNAS is runn ing on two 100GB SSDs in RAID1 and the VMs are stored on a 500GB RAID6 array of 6 146GB SAS disks.

# ? Aug 7, 2017 23:55

DrDork: Dec 29, 2003; commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

CommieGIR posted:

Its running a VM cluster and Docker containers for plex, has a PERC 6/e connected to a MD1000 array, FreeNAS is runn ing on two 100GB SSDs in RAID1 and the VMs are stored on a 500GB RAID6 array of 6 146GB SAS disks.....that I use to store my downloaded movies and porn on.

# ? Aug 8, 2017 00:27

apropos man: Sep 5, 2016; You get a hundred and forty one thousand years and you're out in eight!

^ if only you could have thread titles that length. Would be perfect for this thread.

# ? Aug 8, 2017 06:22

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE

Can I use regular SATA cables between a SAS device and a SAS controller?

# ? Aug 8, 2017 08:08

Wistful of Dollars: Aug 25, 2009

Since Google Drive has been giving my wife guff lately, I've been musing going the home NAS route as a replacement for her. All she uses the cloud storage for is photos and videos she takes while traveling, so it's not exactly taxing. The main issue is making sure files/folders on there can be remotely accessed/shared with family.

I have no issues building something from scratch, but frankly that seems like it will probably be overkill. Is it more sensible to grab a store-bought unit and shove a WD Red or three in it?

~tia

# ? Aug 8, 2017 08:16

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 12:08

Saukkis: May 16, 2003; Unless I'm on the inside curve pointing straight at oncoming traffic the high beams stay on and I laugh at your puny protest flashes.
I am Most Important Man. Most Important Man in the World.

CommieGIR posted:

Its running a VM cluster and Docker containers for plex, has a PERC 6/e connected to a MD1000 array, FreeNAS is runn ing on two 100GB SSDs in RAID1 and the VMs are stored on a 500GB RAID6 array of 6 146GB SAS disks.

Sounds like instead of spending money to move the drives to you garage you should buy a pair of cheaper 500GB SSDs to replace the RAID6 array.

# ? Aug 8, 2017 09:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > NAS/Storage Megathread: What is this "File Deletion" You Speak of

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