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Pakled posted:The kind of people who'd be rejected by this compaction cycle aren't the most profitable gun buyers to begin with. Half of the firearms in the US are owned by 3% of the population, and these are the cash cows the NRA is pandering to with videos like this. That 3% are largely people who were terrified of Obama and bought thousands of dollars worth of guns and ammo because they thought RAHOWA was just around the corner. After the scary black man left the White House, gun sales declined massively so the NRA is in desperation mode to get that group scared again. If you follow that to it's logical conclusion, shouldn't they be trying to do everything they can to get another scary minority into the whitehouse, so that sales go up again?
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Aug 5, 2017 00:16
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The NRA doesn't care about the survival of the NRA per se, it's about the gun manufacturers who provide their needed funding. And those manufacturers aren't really hurt by the NRA doing crazy poo poo because they can always pretend it doesn't reflect them directly.
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Aug 5, 2017 00:21
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RandomPauI posted:That doesn't sit right. There should be too many people invested in the long-term survival of the NRA. I think you underestimate the power of the quarterly report on short term thinking. However they're probably chock full of racist narrativists though. I remember that black guy that was shot dead recently by a white police officer after declaring he had a weapon, but making no aggressive actions. Not a peep from the NRA. Reverse the situation and they'd be screaming. Also, just because they know they would be opening themselves up to lawsuits or bad press doesn't mean they won't do it anyway. Talking head republicans have been doing this for years. Escalating the language of violence until something bad happens and instead of the past when they'd back down, now they double down on that same rhetoric. That's where rhetoric on the right is right now at least at higher levels of public discourse. Never admit fault. Admitting fault is weakness. Double down on everything. Deflect or project all perceived failings onto the opposition and when in doubt, make poo poo up. Their base isn't large enough to admit weakness anymore. They'd lose too many votes. Instead they lose a fewer amount of votes and energize what base is left after a narrative dysphoria event. If they really backpedaled and really admitted fault they'd be doomed in the short term. Their base, or at least the craziest of their base, already primed for the double down now, won't accept anything less. This is just an expression of that. I don't really suggest ascribing anything more than, "Sell guns by speaking their language". Anyway, at some point they're going to trip up when they go too far and really damage themselves. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Aug 5, 2017 |
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Aug 5, 2017 01:00
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So I've been thinking. A lot of things are happening simultaneously. 1. The senate is currently in recess, but is technically still in session meaning Trump can't just do a recess appointment. This is intentional. 2. Trump is going on vacation for seventeen days. 3. Mueller is convening a grand jury. The last time this happened with Nixon it took two years and this took what, six months? 4. Grand juries usually have a 95% inditement rate. Like crazy high. 5. There's no way Mueller found everything in six months. Not because Trump is some opsec genius, but because it's probably wide reaching. I feel like he's moving because Trump is openly considering pulling the trigger on Sessions. Either by outright firing him which procedurally he's not allowed to do or promoting him out of the job, which I don't know if it's possible as he'd have to promote the next two or three out of their jobs as well. So the grand jury is getting convened and Mueller is a good enough cop and former FBI director that he can make this bulletproof. And Trump doesn't seem like he's expert at hiding anything, which makes it all possible to have a complete case against him. So I'm asking a few questions from two separate points. 1. If it's just Russian stuff. 2. If it's Russian stuff and something vile. Say, sex trafficking or something. And before you say boo to that being in bed with the Russians, being in deep with the modeling and pageant shows in multiple countries and having no morals makes that a possibility. Imagine something this vile as a for instance as it's really the only thing that would truly shock most Americans besides something with kids. 1. How do normal narrativists respond to all of this? A real court case with real evidence and real indictments for him, his inner circle and his family. 2. How do the talking heads spin this when all they've been doing lately is to double down, attack and project? 3. Will the republican party actually do anything or merely be "concerned"? 4. Where does the republican party go from here after such a toxic event? 5. Even out in the open, does Trump still attempt an official cover-up, and would he ever stop even knowing that doing so would just make things worse? I have my own ideas but I'd like a perspective other than my own.
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Aug 5, 2017 03:24
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My take: 1. everyone will double-down hysterically. This will not change the result. 2. Everyone will double-down hysterically over that as well. Politicians will blame the media, the media will be self-righteous despite looking just as foolish. Crazy people will go postal from bell towers and the NRA will make money. 3. "Concern". They have no idea what to do. TBH that's the problem for both parties, they will dither. 4. If the moderates get up they will look useless. The right will just continue to be hysterical. I don't think they're able to recover, but its the US, it's anyone's guess at this stage. 5. Trump will continue to bluff and bluster all the way to the county jail. He's the kind of guy who will never shut up and his little band of crazies may well decide revenge is the best response.
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Aug 5, 2017 04:15
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Come on I think we all know how it goes by now. Witch-hunt! Fake evidence! He was framed! Deep State! Liberal media conspiracy! Sheeple public that believe everything they're told! Hillary! Emails! Obama! HILLARYYYYYYYY!!!! Only louder and frothier than ever before. And then for the next twenty years or more "Everything would've been perfect if not for The Heinous Betrayal of Trump!" thinkpieces and talk radio rants.
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Aug 5, 2017 04:44
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Cactus posted:Come on I think we all know how it goes by now. Witch-hunt! Fake evidence! He was framed! Deep State! Liberal media conspiracy! Sheeple public that believe everything they're told! Hillary! Emails! Obama! HILLARYYYYYYYY!!!! I mean, yeah, there's that, but somehow I think there would be less voices. People usually don't say they've been conned. They just keep quiet about it. I was mostly looking to see if anyone thought something different would happen. It's an almost unprecedented situation after all. I figure something different would happen.
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Aug 5, 2017 04:48
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They wouldn't have to admit they had been conned though. They've had decades of an alternate reality being meticulously constructed for them to be able to shield themselves from such thoughts. Remember, Trump is only the worst conman they've ever been victim to, not the first. It won't matter what the evidence is, how much there is, how convincing it is. To them it's all fake.
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Aug 5, 2017 06:37
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I mean we probably could succeed in breaking through to Trump's supporters if we were somehow able to reverse the polarity coming out of RWM with a concentrated tachyon burst.....but aside from that I got nothing. Seriousanswer: Theoretically there is a breaking point wherein narrative dysphoria breaks through not the bulk of Trumps supporters and they quietly slink off out of sight for awhile. I have no idea where that point is though or if it even still exists at this point. If it does exist it will only be evident in retrospect.
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Aug 5, 2017 06:48
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I've seen it myself in Left leaning groups. Within a group, you sometimes get weird positions that are loudly advocated by the most aggressive members. "MMT is a panacea!" "Russia totally did the right thing in Crimea!" "Seth Rich was murdered by Imran Awan" This is the same thing that Prester Jane talks about but she calls it a compaction cytcle, and posits quite a bit more about it.
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Aug 5, 2017 06:52
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Ice Phisherman posted:1. If it's just Russian stuff. 1.1 - My guess is there will be a compaction cycle that will use judicial faith as its purity test; those who accept the case as fact will be ousted while the faithful increase their anti-government narrative, believing that the Deep State has taken over the courts (Activist Judges, etc.) 1.2 - If OJ taught me anything, the Talking Heads will have 24/7 Orgasms and the silence and obfuscation we've heard from outlets like Fox will disappear as they sensationalize every bit, but spinning it on the sympathetic side of Trump. 1.3 - The Republicans will remain "Concerned" until a judgement is made. If the call is guilty, some of them will grow a spine, possibly enough to begin impeachment but probably only because they're an at risk seat and can't be shown to be "Party First" in their district. The deep Red party members will circle the wagons and dither. 1.4 - Honestly, probably exactly the same direction they've been going. Depending on how severe the compaction cycle of 1.1 is their base might not shrink enough to actually affect their polls enough to change one iota. If anything some areas risk them going even further right in order to avoid being primaried. 1.5 - Probably not. The guy doesn't ever back down, I remember watching the 30 for 30 on the USFL, even after failing miserably, tanking the company and getting like a buck eighty out of the whole thing Trump stated he didn't make any mistakes. The closest he'll ever get to stopping is resigning with a tweet eerily reminiscent of Nixon's "You won't have me to kick around anymore" tirade. 2 - I'm going with the assumption of sex trafficking on this one, but I think the core idea can be transferred to any extracurricular stuff. 2.1 - I hate to say it but in all likelihood this one will cause less damage than 1; with the entitled male culture of the Alt-Right I can see this being seen as a positive not a negative with  and other Gorian poo poo getting tossed around. There will still be a compaction cycle but this might feed into the HyperMasculine narrative enough that folks just ignore the Court case, saying everyone's a jealous beta cuck.2.2 - Again it will be similar to 1.2, but with the culture of Fox there's going to be some sleazy sleazy Outer Narratives going around with "I always wanted to bang Miss Universe!" jokes being thrown around by Ducy and Bolling. We'll probably see a lot more Clinton comparisons as well. 2.3 - We'll probably see a larger split between the party when the verdict comes in as the Family Values Republicans have to step up alongside threatened moderates. This of course is based on whether those Family Values are subscribed to in Good Faith or merely as window dressing (I'm suspecting the latter, which will shrink those numbers drastically). 2.4 - Again very similar to 1.4, only with a hell of a lot more Falwell "I Have Sinned" moments before they keep on doing what they do. 2.5 - Are you kidding? He'll probably get on the stand and brag about how he slept with so many contestants, so many I mean have you seen how beautiful these girls are? And I've slept with them! And I don't care where they're from, that's the kind of guy I am, I don't care if you're black or brown, just be beautiful. Gotta be an 8 or higher. Have you seen my daughter? Wow!
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Aug 5, 2017 07:07
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Turtlicious posted:This is the same thing that Prester Jane talks about but she calls it a compaction cytcle, and posits quite a bit more about it. Yep! And one of the consequences of compaction is brain drain, to take this full circle.
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Aug 5, 2017 07:57
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Someone here mentioned Jimmy Dore as a left-wing example of narrativist, which I didn't agree with but which made me check the comment sections of his videos. Well, they're certainly full of the same kind of drivel right-wing fanatics would write, sometimes from a left-wing perspective and sometimes not. Still doesn't seem to be like he's one (What would be his hidden inner narrative?) but it seems like various narrativist groups wish they could just "educate" him a bit and make him one of theirs, as what he says often fits so well into their worldviews. It doesn't seem to me either that he's cynical about what he says, it's more like he says the conspiracy theory level stuff that he does out of naivete toward foreign media whose narrative goes against the US sanctioned narrative. And when his co-commentators point it out, he backs off and re-evaluates like a balanced person. Yet he draws in all these narrativists regardless, by selecting topics that appeal to them and so on. Maybe he has some kind of outsider appeal, not explicitly pandering to any single narrativist group but agreeing with especially the conspiracy theorist and trumpist blocs just enough to make them feel good believing that the outside world is slowly coming to realize that truth is on their personal narrative's side. He clearly does appeal to right-wing narrativists as specifically a left-winger who supports some of their views, above all the idea of a conspiratorial liberal mainstream media monolith that works together with CIA and so on. Recently there have been commenters that seem perplexed why Jimmy hasn't taken the next step they expect and mentioned the jews or globalists or whatever behind it all, since clearly he isn't afraid to say it like it is. (He has said what he thinks is behind it all: monopoly capitalism, inverted totalitarianism, manufacturing consent and so on.) Anyway, being able to look at phenomena like this feels incredible and I've occasionally found myself wishing i had some kind of three-sentence explanation to other people about why, for example, Trump admin is making these low-grade jabs at trans people with apparently no grand plan. "The republican party has been taken over fanatics they used to cynically manipulate" is a decent start, but it doesn't say why these fanatics are so single-mindedly concerned with bullying their perceived enemy, or why the enemies are who they are.
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Aug 6, 2017 10:39
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uncop posted:Someone here mentioned Jimmy Dore as a left-wing example of narrativist He may or may not be a narrativist, but he has them in his fanbase. Maybe he's really funny, supposedly he's a comedian, but my first exposure to him was a video link where he spent the first quarter of the video talking up the audience, talking about how smart and cool we all are and how dumb and bad they are. I guess I'm just old but I don't have the patience for that.
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Aug 6, 2017 10:55
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uncop posted:Someone here mentioned Jimmy Dore as a left-wing example of narrativist, which I didn't agree with but which made me check the comment sections of his videos. Well, they're certainly full of the same kind of drivel right-wing fanatics would write, sometimes from a left-wing perspective and sometimes not. Jimmy Dore is an example of what I would consider a left-oriented Economic cluster Narrativist. Rather than worshipping Capitalism like a right-oriented Narrativist he sees (unfettered) Capitalism/neoliberalism as the great Enemy. Members of the Economic Cluster tend to stay relatively low-compaction as their individualistic nature (and obsessive focus on resources/ownership) tends to leave them with few opportunities to form a group of Narrativists dense enough to sustain Compaction cycles. Jimmy Dore occupies a kind of odd position as the only prominent left-oriented Economic cluster Narrativist I can think of off the top of my head. As a result of this Jimmy Dore kind of genuinely believes in what are Outer narratives to most of his fanbase- a situation which makes it easy for them to project their Inner narrative on to him because they interpret Jimmy Dore's genuine beliefs as Outer narratives. Its a combination of Dore being kind of a simpleton and his base misinterpreting his simplistic beliefs as complex signals to an Inner narrative.
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Aug 6, 2017 10:56
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As a minor update my website is finally starting to attract some attention- and more importantly people are reading through the entire Narrativist Framework. I rejiggered some things and gave the introduction a clickbaity title and spread it around Reddit a bit and things are taking off now. In a few months there might just be enough people familiar with the Narrativist Framework to support conversations about it outside of this thread. Certainly it is being warmly received in some parts of Reddit. Edit: My work is now the 5/6 of the top Google hits for "Narrativist Framework" and 4th for "Compaction Cycle 
Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Aug 6, 2017 |
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Aug 6, 2017 11:02
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I eagerly await the day I see "Latest Compaction Cycle leaves Republican party in disarray" scrolling across the bottom of some news panel.
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Aug 6, 2017 13:26
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Prester Jane posted:I mean we probably could succeed in breaking through to Trump's supporters if we were somehow able to reverse the polarity coming out of RWM with a concentrated tachyon burst.....but aside from that I got nothing. Agreed. While many of them are his hardcore worshippers, the bulk will gladly rewrite history to claim that they totally saw through Trump the False Prophet despite still basically agreeing with everything he does. The Faithful, however, really will take to violent terrorism. Moreso than they already have. It will get very ugly. The biggest danger is that Trump has desensitized so many to the normal evil of the GOP. With all that they have done to destroy our rights and environment alongside our media seemingly failing to learn anything meaningful, a more competent demagogue will have an even easier time coming to power after him. He might not be able to completely convert us to fascism but he's laid the groundwork for someone to do just that later and lowers the bar so much that someone able to speak in complete sentences will be welcomed. We won't recover from this for decades. Geostomp fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Aug 6, 2017 |
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Aug 6, 2017 14:53
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Do you agree with Zizek that Trump needed to happen so that the recovery can start or could all this have been avoided? What are the chances the US will succumb to the same fate as the USSR? I know they're both totally different situations but part of me can't help but think this is one of those cases where everything has a natural lifespan and this is the USA's time. It's both interesting and scary but I'll be honest I'm more the former than the latter. I simply cannot wait to see how it all unfolds. I truly, honestly hope you guys sort it out though. Really.
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Aug 6, 2017 23:22
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Prester Jane posted:Seriousanswer: Theoretically there is a breaking point wherein narrative dysphoria breaks through not the bulk of Trumps supporters and they quietly slink off out of sight for awhile. I have no idea where that point is though or if it even still exists at this point. If it does exist it will only be evident in retrospect. Idk I've definitely noticed some pro-Trump forums I read (like a Christian one) getting more quiet recently.
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Aug 7, 2017 00:06
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:Idk I've definitely noticed some pro-Trump forums I read (like a Christian one) getting more quiet recently. Online communities are just that. Communities. They require a certain critical mass to sustain themselves, new content to respond to and an active enough of a user base to participate with. I personally have been part of a community that at its height was no more than thirty people for the better part of a decade, but we all knew one another pretty well and were active posters before it finally broke apart. However unless they're active posters they're not going to be able to sustain a community the smaller it gets. And the smaller it gets the larger the effect is. People don't only need content to sustain themselves for narrowly focused communities, but users to sustain that content. Content really only sustains itself from bots and people will eventually figure out that said users are bots from conversation. Less so on reddit because it's not geared towards long form conversation, so bots are more likely to thrive there. Also, and this is important but overlooked, there's the ever present lurker. People who watch and listen and perhaps even believe but don't feel like they want to contribute for one reason or another. They can still be influenced and even radicalized without ever participating just like a book can influence or radicalize an individual. Hard to measure, but those people leave as well because they are there singly for the content because they don't participate actively in the community. Message boards are basically online centers for community. They help spread and disseminate ideas like a church or a bar or really any sort of social club. They also tend to be so narrowly focused that those ideas if they're good enough flow out into the real world. Message boards are complicated and influenced the world at a level far more than most people think, especially in narrowly focused subcultures. I've been using them for almost 25 years now. I should really write some sort of paper on them someday.
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Aug 7, 2017 00:39
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The kind of thing we call "bots" for these sorts of purposes can usually function just fine on smaller boards, since they're really just one real guy posting on multiple sites with similar "content". They're fully capable of doing the minimal interaction needed and doing things like dropping the latest talking point and expecting the other people invested in the community to do the real talking to keep them convinced. In those small forums they're often never going to be "discovered" for what they are, but they certainly can stop bothering to post altogether and then the board is going to drift back to what they'd actually talk about without the "bot's" old input.
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Aug 7, 2017 00:46
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A psychologist's review paper about Trump supporters came out.Abstract posted:No one factor describes Trump’s supporters. But an array of factors – many of them reflecting five major social psychological phenomena can help to account for this extraordinary political event: authoritarianism, social dominance orientation, prejudice, relative deprivation, and intergroup contact. Research on the topic demonstrates that these theories and concepts of social psychology prove centrally important in helping to understand this unexpected event. This paper describes the supporting data for this statement and demonstrates the close parallels between these American results and those of research on far-right European supporters. An article-length summary of it from Raw Story is here
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Aug 10, 2017 20:59
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RandomPauI posted:A psychologist's review paper about Trump supporters came out. I know I shouldn't, for my sanity, read the comments under these kinds of articles, but they are just the best. Trump supporters come in with their butthurt screeds proving the article correct again, and again, and again...
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Aug 10, 2017 23:07
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Modern Monetary Theory. It's hip in leftist circles now. Sorry for the derail PJ, I just want to clean this up a little. This is more appropriate for the economic megathread closed long ago. Bill Black, a big proponent of MMT, wrote a great article summarizing what MMT is and is not. Here's the last snippet of his long post. "MMT is what is, not what might be posted:... If you can grasp the basics of MMT, you can look at this video and follow what Richard Koo is saying regarding private and public spending. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YTyJzmiHGk
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Aug 11, 2017 06:23
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CheeseSpawn posted:Bill Black, a big proponent of MMT, wrote a great article summarizing what MMT is and is not. Here's the last snippet of his long post. This is nonsense. Virtually no one believes that the government has some large stockpile of money which it spends. Anyone who is halfway educated understands that the government takes in money through taxes and spends money on services it provides. Most educated people are certainly going to know that governments borrow money to make up for the shortfall when they're spending more than they take in, and that spending more than is taken in is often the normal state of affairs, for better or worse. It's also understood that there are limits to how much can be borrowed without causing major problems. So governments absolutely can run into limits on their ability to borrow, and must prioritize what to spend money on. Many people are quite opposed to the idea of governments running budget deficits and borrowing to make up for them, and writings to this effect might use language referring to the government "being out of money".
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Aug 12, 2017 06:48
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The difference with MMT is that it says that you don't need to balance the difference between spending and revenue by taking debt. There are good reasons to spend, there are good reasons to tax, and there are good reasons to sell government bonds, but since we can issue or destroy money at will, they don't need to actually add up. The real limiting factor is our industrial capacity. If we add more money than our economy can handle, you get inflation.
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Aug 12, 2017 09:11
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Orange Sunshine posted:This is nonsense. You're not wrong but MMT says that's not the case at the federal level when you deal with the issuer of the currency itself. That's one drawback of MMT is this "narrow" focus since I've only seen it discussed at that level with regards to monetary policy. I'm not derailing this thread any further for economic talk so make your own thread etc. Stephanie Kelton has some interesting intro vids to it as well as Warren Mosler if anyone wants to try and take a look.
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Aug 12, 2017 09:22
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Well, enough with the MMT stuff. You've all probably heard that the white supremacists are on the move again in the US. They might call themselves something different this time. They have new flags and new ways to promote old ideas. The old enemy is rearing its head once more. The greatest generation, the ones that actually fought the fascists are mostly dead, dying or are retired. Unlike during the civil rights era where our grandfathers and grandmothers dealt with or even were white supremacists the white supremacists have to be on the attack as they're smaller in number. Violence is happening in America. People are dying for old hatreds never fully put to bed. So let's loving talk about it. So I'm a moderate. I talk a lot, watch a lot and listen quite a lot. Not a ton of action. Last night when I went to bed I felt nothing. In the back of my mind I both wondered and probably secretly knew that more poo poo was coming down the pipeline. Turns out that yes, it is. Now I've been fuming in a rage all day. So I'll try to construct something positive out of it. At least it's a start. I just want people not to die in conflagrations of violence and ignorance. Like I've said since before Trump was elected, "I just want to keep the wheels on and spinning". Last night protesters were surrounded and attacked by a crowd of fascists wielding tiki torches at a counter-protest. My guess is because actual torches are surprisingly hard to make. Their faces were unmasked as they surrounded and attacked peaceful protesters. A drone (allegedly, but signs point to yes) takes down a police helicopter and kills two. Then a man uses a car to ram through protesters. He injures nineteen, kills one and when he hit a car he backed up at roughly 20 mph to try and make a getaway through the crowd. He didn't and is currently in police custody. Not to mention all of the poo poo that is in the news but isn't getting much play. Or wasn't in the news because it happened off camera. This is the result of getting enough people for a "Unite the Right" rally. Perhaps some of them aren't outright fascists, enough of them are that people are injured and killed when there are enough of them around. That a critical mass of these people cause misery wherever they go. This is white supremacist terrorism. The polite mask is off and familiar white, pointy ones are back on. This is at the feet of the republicans. Until they do something to degrade and destroy these right wing terrorists they enable them either by doing nothing or by passively helping. More people are going to die as they dither. The nazis, the KKK, the skinheads, white supremacists and "proudboys" are on the move. They're emboldened by Trump who either leaves them alone or even empowers them, ala Bannon and a republican party that requires racists to win elections, who mainly denounce them but probably won't do anything. Sure there will be outliers who will do stuff, but in many counties, cities and even states people who are targeted are going to be on their own. States rights, often a watchword for racism, have come upon a federal government who is most likely going to do nothing, leaving maybe MAYBE the local government and individuals within law enforcement to save them. It's not going to be long before the peaceful protests on the left go violent as they tool up. poo poo is only going to get worse. If there's any time to volunteer and do stuff to keep this from accelerating out of control, it's now. The more we help to keep the wheels on the wagon spinning the less blood gets shed. I say less, because if they're already coordinating attacks there's going to be a lot of blood being shed by the alt-right. The nazis. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 02:52
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With the response to the White Supremacist attacks, I almost wonder if Republicans are trying to keep themselves from getting dragged over the edge into full blown fascism. "Noooo, we're supposed to just dogwhistle!!! what are you dooiing!!!!"
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Aug 13, 2017 03:27
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:With the response to the White Supremacist attacks, I almost wonder if Republicans are trying to keep themselves from getting dragged over the edge into full blown fascism. "Noooo, we're supposed to just dogwhistle!!! what are you dooiing!!!!" The republican party can never win without the drips and drabs they get from minority voters. No minorities save the most disillusioned and crazy will vote for a party whose head won't condemn nazis when they kill people. Fully expect Trump to try to distract from this with flash. Problem is Nazis murdering people in the street isn't going to go away with his normal flashy antics. It demands real response. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 03:58
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From talking to some minorities who support Trump, I can tell you that "Not actively promoting Nazis/KKK, to the exclusion of all else" is sufficient for them, and failing to condemn them doesn't bother them much. "The truth is in the middle!" is a very appealing message, because it means you can just wash your hands and say things are hosed up but it's not my fault, I don't have to advocate a solution because EVERYTHING is hosed up, so who cares? So Trump's "Both sides are to blame!" is very appealing to them. These people make me actually angry. I'm stewing and fuming right now. As an understatement. They were my friends. Fairly close friends. Now, I can't stand them.
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Aug 13, 2017 04:11
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Iunnrais posted:From talking to some minorities who support Trump, I can tell you that "Not actively promoting Nazis/KKK, to the exclusion of all else" is sufficient for them, and failing to condemn them doesn't bother them much. "The truth is in the middle!" is a very appealing message, because it means you can just wash your hands and say things are hosed up but it's not my fault, I don't have to advocate a solution because EVERYTHING is hosed up, so who cares? So Trump's "Both sides are to blame!" is very appealing to them. Been there, done that with former friends. Honestly it feels like unless Asian people are completely demonized by right wing media they wouldn't bat an eye.
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Aug 13, 2017 05:20
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Annointed posted:Been there, done that with former friends. Honestly it feels like unless Asian people are completely demonized by right wing media they wouldn't bat an eye. Asians are used as the "good ones" to show that white Republicans aren't racist, because if they were then why would they like this specific subset of minorities with a stereotype for being exploitable labor?
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Aug 13, 2017 07:15
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Zemyla posted:Asians are used as the "good ones" to show that white Republicans aren't racist, because if they were then why would they like this specific subset of minorities with a stereotype for being exploitable labor? To emphasize how hosed up things are just now. Ted Cruz, of all people said that the white supremacists and nazis are a bad and demanded that they'd be investigated. Do I believe he'd follow through with that? gently caress no but just the fact that he'd say that highlights how disjointed the US is. This subject ticks me off the hardest because aside from the very obvious personal reason to be mad, finding any recent news or literature on this tends to only focus on not enough asians in Harvard or outdated blogs or people unironically calling Affirmative Action "Asian Exclusionary Act for White People." Oh and the occasional getting beaten bloody at Airport or getting insulted by hateful bigots. Am I being paranoid and the going is good or am I just not looking in the right places? Annointed fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 08:49
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Annointed posted:With how much Nazis are getting motivated and given the a okay to be Nazis by members of Office, I don't think they'll care much about their pet minority when realize they can stop treating us Asians as "people." It's like having a sense of peace since you know you aren't Latinx, Black, or Heaven forbid a Muslim person and aren't the main focus of hate groups, and then remembering that peace is an illusion that can go away anytime. Okay, I wasn't sure of the actual situation, just what I'd learned from hate-reading conservative hellholes. I apologize.
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Aug 13, 2017 14:27
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So I've stumbled upon a subreddit that is basically centered soleley on directing Compaction cycles against leftists. Literally.It is called "physical removal" and advocates for the physical (violent) removal of all liberals from society. Here is how they describe themselvesTextbook Narrativists posted:The #1 place to go on the internet to discuss Hans-Hermann Hoppe's idea of "physical removal." Here are their forum rules: Textbook Narrativists posted:1. MENTION THIS SUBREDDIT IN ANY REDDIT THREAD ABOUT LEFTISTS BEING VIOLENT And here is their official take on the attacks yesterday: https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/896508336186703872 Don't actually go to or read the sub if you value your blood pressure, but I feel it is a place worth keeping an eye on.
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Aug 13, 2017 17:19
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Crossposting from the Trump threaddr_rat posted:A whole bunch of politicians have come out openly saying this is a white separatist terrorist attack, and there been more then a few republicans calling for the sacking of Bannon, et al from the White House. It was a tragic weekend to be sure, and the nazi's may feel more empowered, but also there is a hell of a backlash to it all going on. In the context of the Narrativist Framework yesterday represented a massive blast of Narrative dysphoria. My Framework predicts that this should result in a noticeable decrease in low-compaction (relatively less radicalized) supporters of Trump, however it also predicts an increase in the total number of high-compaction (relatively more radicalized) Trump supporters as a result of massive Compaction cycles that will soon play out. (Narrative dysphoria is resolved via Compaction cycles, the more Narrative dysphoria the more Compaction cycles there will be.) Compaction cycles result in Inner narrative evolution, or the process of a Narrativists core beliefs becoming more extreme and more prepared to commit violence. So I expect that in the short term we will see a decrease in the total number of Trump supporters followed by a noticeable surge in both Compaction cycles and radicalized groups commiting aggressive acts of intimidation/harassment/violence. Trump will not hesitate to encourage this behavior from his hardcore (high-compaction) core of supporters. I don't know what the result of the present situation will be but I remain quite strongly optimistic, the attack yesterday snapped a whole lot of Americans from all stripes out of their comfortable stupor.
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Aug 13, 2017 20:24
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Considering the bipartisan condemnation, does anybody expect there to be action taken against this group/help fuel the flames of impeachment? And to keep the question more on-topic; in the case of Republican action against American Nazis and/or Trump would this be considered justified by some narrativists? (obviously not all since racial cluster narrativists are the ones leading the Nazi rallies) Since it's "our guys" getting rid of the bad guys, or would it be more likely that they would consider them 'cuckservatives' who are traitors in their narrative? Adeline Weishaupt fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Aug 13, 2017 |
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Aug 13, 2017 21:25
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umalt posted:Considering the bipartisan condemnation, does anybody expect there to be action taken against this group/help fuel the flames of impeachment? Nah, this is pretty small potatoes, overall. What it does is give more freedom to turn on him within the Republican party if and when the time comes. Trump needs to be directly accused of a fairly serious crime before impeachment even becomes an issue. Then it's a matter of how much loyalty to him is worth for the rest of the party.
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Aug 13, 2017 21:36
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