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Oh that's why. I bet eventually they'll change it so that golds have immunity to some but not all effects. Edit: War longships and similar cards will be extreme cancer with this new gold rule imo. Kind of concerned tbh but whatever let's keep this wild ride going. No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Aug 22, 2017 |
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Aug 22, 2017 17:09
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I don't think they lost complete immunity, but there are more ways to interact with golds other than D-shackles/bomb. From some previews, a new card(and Coral effect) Jade Figurine a silver card that turns target card into a 3 str unit can target golds, as does Letho and Unseen Elder. Yen:Con also specifically mentions Gold cards, which makes me think Longships and new Enforcers can't target golds. Some rumours also mention weather effects damage golds. Anyway Rethaz on the gold changes. quote:Interactivity has been the most common complaint over the various months the game has been in Beta.
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Aug 22, 2017 17:35
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Ohhh I'm an idiot, Keira got nerfed hard because she can kill self now, that's why they gave her a better third spell.
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Aug 22, 2017 17:52
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He made that whole big post about interactivity then failed to mention what, if any, protections golds have any more.
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Aug 22, 2017 17:56
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Hmm, perhaps the solution is more weather???
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Aug 22, 2017 18:18
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I'm tenatively excited! There's a big reddit list of everything spotted so far if you want to fly off the handle and declare the game dead https://www.reddit.com/r/gwent/comments/6vbnos/gamescom_card_leak_megathread/
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Aug 22, 2017 18:56
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I feel like the distinction between gold and silver is pretty meaningless now. Demoting an opponents gold is now almost always helpful or neutral to them which is bizarre. Kambi needs a complete redesign. Unseen elder becomes ridiculous scorch/gigni bait (also new coral), basically unplayable. I wish they hadn't gone all the way with this. It is way more flavorful for important story characters to be immune to mundane spells. They should have made it so only golds can hit golds.
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Aug 22, 2017 19:18
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Magic Underwear posted:I feel like the distinction between gold and silver is pretty meaningless now. Demoting an opponents gold is now almost always helpful or neutral to them which is bizarre. Kambi needs a complete redesign. Unseen elder becomes ridiculous scorch/gigni bait (also new coral), basically unplayable. Golds are kind of insanely overpowered though. Put that damned Yennefer down on the board and if you don't have shackles you're stuck eating damage every loving round. Geralt: Igni needs to be removed from the game outright.
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Aug 22, 2017 19:28
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Infiltrator: 9 strength NG bronze - Toggle another unit's spying status. Too bad they also changed Menno to only kill one spying enemy. Still, a pretty entertaining combo.
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Aug 22, 2017 19:29
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Holy poo poo they just can't figure out how to balance the game can they Well at least they are trying, and card games are notoriously hard to balance anyway...
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Aug 22, 2017 19:40
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ugh 6 str mahakam defenders why
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Aug 22, 2017 19:46
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Magic Underwear posted:It is way more flavorful for important story characters to be immune to mundane spells. I don't agree with this at all. Other games like hearthstone have no issue with their legendary story characters being able to be killed by grunts or a chicken or whatever. Important characters are already distinguished by having the most base power and most powerful effects compared to other non gold characters. They don't have to also be immune to balistas or whatever for that to have flavor.
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Aug 22, 2017 19:53
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They'll be able to do a lot more interesting things with golds now that they're no longer immune. Good change, much like getting rid of faction passives was good.
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Aug 22, 2017 19:58
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I just liked it because the mechanic was interesting. Golds being scorchable hoses stuff like unseen elder to little benefit and it makes the math on removal even easier. I liked when there was no clean answer to Yenncon, you had to actively play around cards instead of just having an answer (I never ran yenncon). However I understand why they're doing it. It might be necessary idk.
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Aug 22, 2017 20:00
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Subvisual Haze posted:Infiltrator: 9 strength NG bronze - Toggle another unit's spying status. Pretty sure Menno had to be changed so that Bronze could exist. On the other hand Old Treason is back, not 100% as it can't treason spies stronger than 10, but there's some tools to have fun with that bronze and making spies. Caellach also now can summon one of the three bronze spies which is cool. Lot of spy stuff for NG.
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Aug 22, 2017 20:09
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They can always just add a "this card is immune" phrase to the game and use it very sparingly. something like unseen elder could have it with whatever other balance considerations you need to consider
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Aug 22, 2017 20:35
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Also maybe I'm crazy but new coral seems really good.
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Aug 22, 2017 20:45
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No Wave posted:Also maybe I'm crazy but new coral seems really good. Won't be as frustrating as she is right now that's for sure. Another big mechanical change, units with resilience now reset when the turn ends. Guess that is why Ekimmara and Dorfs got buffed, and the dorf defender now strengthens dorfs instead of buff.
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Aug 22, 2017 20:55
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That seems fair. Lets Thunderbolt stay strong without dwarves making game play so stupid.
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Aug 22, 2017 21:03
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Seems like they're remaking nearly the entire game and shaking up all the mechanics. Which is probably necessary, this next patch has been too long in the making. The game really needed a quick hotfix a couple weeks ago to tweak some cards and keep the meta fresh. The lack of alternate game modes and length between any changes can make even minor faction imbalances feel crushing.
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Aug 22, 2017 22:07
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that interview posted:Being forced to take very specific answers is something I've commented on before, and something we're trying to do away with to increase deck/card variety. This doesn't really inspire confidence in me. I'm pretty sure if you add more broad answers into the game and make most of the useful cards easier to kill, you reduce the amount of cards you'll see, not increase it. I'm a little bit worried looking at these changes after the weather changes, a lot of the interesting and unique things about this game seem like they're getting ironed out In favor of blander tempo based gameplay. I hope I'm just panicking and they don't go overboard with it.
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Aug 22, 2017 23:06
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No Wave posted:That seems fair. Lets Thunderbolt stay strong without dwarves making game play so stupid. thunderbolt functionally got changed to an immune boost which means immune boost is something else
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Aug 22, 2017 23:33
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Here are some golds that make no sense in this new regime: Dies instantly to bronze Alzur's Thunder without accomplishing anything useful: Kambi (lol) Yenncon Priss Ciri (lol) triss butt the succ speartip birna bran wild boar iorveth vabjorn (lol) new harald Huge scorch/gigni/coral/BTM targets painted on them, and/or card disadvantage yourself for no reason: Unseen elder Tibor Kayran Hjalmar kind of Bloody Baron Loyal Letho Cards that will do stupid things: Kambi (hope you don't play bears) Keira Metz (dies to her own epidemic) Ciri (?????) Villen (3 turn suicide timer) That is a lot of cards to change if they intend to make value-over-time golds viable. The 2 for 1 golds might be lost causes no matter what, since what made them good was being a protected pile of stats, not just being a pile of stats. Magic Underwear fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 22, 2017 23:51
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Rethaz posted specifically that Villentretenmerth has a built-in "will not scorch self" in the patch, but yeah, not sure how a lot of the currently strong golds will be worth a poo poo now. My Bloody Baron deck just flat out won't work going forward. I'm concerned at golds no longer having immunity, but I guess it's fine. The only patch where this game was unplayable (imo) was the Skellige meta, so they've proven themselves pretty good about making a game that's at least fun.
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Aug 23, 2017 02:12
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I'm definitely agreeing that it could be good, I hope scorch says 'bronze or silver' or unseen elder says 'can't be scorched' and also remove geralt igni from the game. Seriously. Scorch that only counts the enemy side isn't something I think is necessary.
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Aug 23, 2017 05:27
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Captainicus posted:I'm definitely agreeing that it could be good, I hope scorch says 'bronze or silver' or unseen elder says 'can't be scorched' and also remove geralt igni from the game. Seriously. Scorch that only counts the enemy side isn't something I think is necessary. I don't think Igni is completely irredeemable, but it has been quite oppressive the last few months and needs a change. I think making it so that it only ever hit one unit or making it so it could hit your side too would do lot to bring it where it needs to be. With gold immunity gone, they absolutely have to rework him anyway.
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Aug 23, 2017 07:29
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Igni is fine.
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Aug 23, 2017 07:32
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Comp-U-poo poo posted:Igni is fine. Igni is a lot more manageable once you've drilled a bunch of mitigation strategies into your head, but it has the same problem uber-weather had where it can just absolutely wreck newer players who don't know how to play around it yet. I still lose to Igni now and then, but it's usually either because I was playing carelessly or because I was behind and would have lost to a bunch of different power cards. Consider that Igni is one of most powerful neutral golds and isn't archetype dependent like Ciri Dash, Avallach, Vill, or Triss butt, so any deck could have it at any time (and frequently will) and if you slip up against someone who is running it, it can easily tank your whole game. I've played enough that staggering my power and counting to twenty for each row are almost second nature, but new players don't know to do that, so they tend to get hit much, much harder. I don't think the current abundance of easy pub-stomper cards are particularly good for the game and it limits the available deck archetypes. Plus I'd be grateful for the chance to free up some of the mental real estate I'm currently devoting to counting to 20 every round of every game. Maybe that's just me though.
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Aug 23, 2017 08:39
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Duckbag posted:Igni is a lot more manageable once you've drilled a bunch of mitigation strategies into your head, but it has the same problem uber-weather had where it can just absolutely wreck newer players who don't know how to play around it yet. I still lose to Igni now and then, but it's usually either because I was playing carelessly or because I was behind and would have lost to a bunch of different power cards. I sort of like the mental game of: where could coral, igni, or hailstorm do the most damage? And how do I prepare for that? It makes me more likely to spread my units out on every lane and not bunch them up in one lane to get ignied. It's also good as keep weather in check most times.
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Aug 23, 2017 12:34
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Duckbag posted:Igni is a lot more manageable once you've drilled a bunch of mitigation strategies into your head, but it has the same problem uber-weather had where it can just absolutely wreck newer players who don't know how to play around it yet. This isn't a problem and competitive games should not be balanced around the lowest common denominator. If geralt igni needs to be nerfed for any reason it's because it's oppressive to the meta in a way that no other card is, because you can throw it any deck without a drawback and it completely hard counters a bunch of strategies.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:16
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Electronico6 posted:Pretty sure Menno had to be changed so that Bronze could exist. Yeah, I love the current Menno, but his ability limits the number of spies they could viably can create for NG, especially higher-strength spies with more powerful abilities. It's a good change. Not sure how I feel about the gold change yet; it's such a huge departure from the current state of the game that it'll take some time to see how it all shakes out. Could make things more varied and interesting, or it could lead to one or two power-spam-with-removal-tech decks dominating the meta; all depends on what other changes they make.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:46
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troofs posted:If geralt igni needs to be nerfed for any reason it's because it's oppressive to the meta in a way that no other card is, because you can throw it any deck without a drawback and it completely hard counters a bunch of strategies. There's also no means to defend against it -- you can spread yourself thinner than you may want to, but you have no idea if a player has it or when they might employ it and it's absolutely catastrophic -- I've basically had a game on lock, then Geralt: Igni was played and took me out completely. It didn't feel like I got outplayed at all, it just felt like this rear end in a top hat bought a victory button.
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Aug 23, 2017 16:49
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Igni isn't nearly as oppressive as some people make it out to be and isn't even run in the most popular decks at very high MMR.
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Aug 23, 2017 17:33
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Igni is a great card and as far as I know has never pushed a deck out of the meta, so I have no idea how it can be "oppressive". While I wouldn't mind a scorchproof effect of some sort, it doesn't lead to any bad play patterns or stagnancy and it's a very interactive card to play around. There have been a lot of high variance/uncapped effects removed from the game, most of them correctly so, but some have to stick around to keep the game at all interesting. I do share the concern noted above that the removal of the gold invulnerability mechanic will lead to fewer cards actually being playable. No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 17:45
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Impera Brigades are now agile. New faction to be added to the game, after the single player campaign(so next year most likely). Patch with balance changes and 30 new cards should hit early next week after season closes on the 27th.
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Aug 23, 2017 18:54
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Estraysian posted:Igni isn't nearly as oppressive as some people make it out to be and isn't even run in the most popular decks at very high MMR. The reason for this is because you won't see a deck that loses to gigni at high mmr because it wouldn't get there. Nobody is going to play a deck that instantly loses if their opponent happens to be playing a single tech card that, while it definitely isn't ubiquitous, is common enough on the ladder. I actually don't think igni needs to be nerfed actually, there's a lot of ways to play around it and there's enough deck variety in gwent as is, but I think that it definitely effects the meta a whole lot just by existing. troofs fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 19:36
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Magic Underwear posted:I feel like the distinction between gold and silver is pretty meaningless now. Demoting an opponents gold is now almost always helpful or neutral to them which is bizarre. Kambi needs a complete redesign. Unseen elder becomes ridiculous scorch/gigni bait (also new coral), basically unplayable. hopefully this means gold cards will actually be objectively better than silver cards instead of generally worse
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Aug 23, 2017 21:32
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troofs posted:The reason for this is because you won't see a deck that loses to gigni at high mmr because it wouldn't get there. Nobody is going to play a deck that instantly loses if their opponent happens to be playing a single tech card that, while it definitely isn't ubiquitous, is common enough on the ladder.
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Aug 23, 2017 22:32
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No Wave posted:What decks are these? Reaver hunters seems like the most susceptible to igni deck possible but it's still real. It's not any specific deck. You just can't build decks that play into igni too often, so a lot of potential win conditions are unusable because they are hard countered by a non-symetrical gold card that's available to every faction. I guess "oppressive" was maybe the wrong word but it's a very powerful card that has a wide effect on how successful decks are built from a meta perspective, I think possibly more than any other single card in the game. troofs fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Aug 23, 2017 |
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Aug 23, 2017 23:00
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Igni and Scorch are the main reason Fringella doesn't see play outside of gimmick decks. It's also a real damper on a lot of NR unit swarm/buffing decks and I suspect it's the main reason reveal isn't competitive at higher levels. I don't know if either card is "broken" but having either or both available for any deck has definitely had the effect of shifting the meta away from big bronzes/silvers and made securing gold power far more important. Whether that's good for the game or bad is a matter of opinion.
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Aug 24, 2017 00:09
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