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Welcome- to the previous century of posting I guess?
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Aug 24, 2017 17:33
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FWIW, below is a detailed log I wrote up but never posted of last year's Gamescom preview of Alpha 3.0 mission design last year. I thought it would useful to break it down into activity type, to get a snapshot of their vision for what an hour of gameplay in 3.0 should really feel like. Might as well post it here, considering what Erin apparently said and on the eve of (maybe) an update on THE VISION. One of the key determinants of MMO success (and any game, really) is the enjoyability of the core game loops, and that preview is quite telling. Though it never was turned into a graph, even a quick eyeballing shows what the core player activities are, the majorities being stuff like: TIME SPENT IDLE IN TRANSIT (IN SHIP), TIME SPENT IDLE IN TRANSIT (ON FOOT). There is very little that could be confused for fun, and what little of it they do include appears faked via the use of unseen participants in the demo. GAMESCOM 2016 ALPHA 3.0 PREVIEW WAKE UP GET THE MISSION 0:49 start 1:09 - 1:37 - Message received 1:49 - - Check mission manager. 2:08 - Proceeds directly to the landing pad (without getting ship.) 3:08 - Arrives at landing pad, Chris awaits. Abrupt cut. ENTERS SHIP / FLIGHT TO DELEMAR 3:49 - Enters Freelancer. 4:13 - Enters co-pilot’s seat. 4:28 - Departure. 5:10 - Starmap “Early work in progress” is opened. 6:15 - Delemar is selected as destination 6:16 - 6:38 Quantum Travel 6:39 - 7:38 - Flyby of orbital station 7:39 - 7:43 Quantum drive to Levski ATMOSPHERIC DESCENT TO PLANET, BRIEF TOUR ON SURFACE 8:45 - 9:12 Entering atmosphere. 9:14 - Atmospheric flight model down to surface 10:39 - Landing and exit 11:28 - Ship moved twice because Chris couldn’t re-enter 12:13 - Re-entering Ship 12:27 - Back in co-pilot’s seat, flight follows 13:25 - Request landing 14:33 - Touchdown in Levski SHIP EXIT / ELEVATOR / TOUR LOBBY / ELEVATOR TO BAZAAR 15:03 - Exits ship, which leaves. 16:00 - 16:18 Enters and exits airlock 16:26 - Calls elevator. 16:36 - Elevator arrives. 16:46 - Lobby Button pushed 16:54 - Exits elevator to lobby, tour 18:36 - Calls elevator 18:57 - Elevator arrives 19:02 - “Go Down” - an elevator with 5 floors doesn’t let you choose your floor? So presumably you have to “go down” 4 times? 19:30 - Elevator arrives, exit 20:20 - Begins descent into the bazaar. Tour begins. 22:24 - Finds cafe MEET WITH MISSION GIVE IN CAFE 22:51 - Meets with mission giver. Finally. 23:35 - Mission description complete. 23:47 - Mobiglass consulted to check details of mission 24:25 - Close mobiglass 23:46 - Mission accepted (3000 aUEC is reward) 23:54 - Begins trek back to ship 26:00 - Elevator 1 ride begins 26:30— Elevator 1 ride ends 26:54 - Elevator 2 ride begins 27:11 - Elevator 2 ride ends 27:15 - Airlock 27:33 — Landing pad approach, mission check, ship leaves and returns 28:30 — Enters Freelancer BACK IN FREELANCER 28:45 - Freelancer departure 30:35 - Quantum jump to asteroid field in search for missing Starfarer ASTEROID FIELD- COMBAT 31:23 - Pirates arrive yet do not attack. One is destroyed instantly. 32:38 - Second pirate destroyed. Neither attacked the player. EXIT FREELANCER / APPROACHING 33:00 - Approach the Starfarer. 33:41 - EVA exit to ship. Searching for entrance. 35:17 — Enters ship through hole 35:32 — Pirate encountered, kills 1, search continues 37:10 - Blackbox retrieved (!) 37:50 - New message received from Miles 38:41 - Message completed - 3000 Credits received 39:07 - New mission accepted, exit begins 40:08 - Pirate 2 encountered. Battle begins 40:41 - Pirate 2 killed, exit continues DRAGONFLY 41:21 - Dragonfly discovered 41:47— Dragonfly boarded. {Players will surely not be able to gain free vehicles for performing missions, will they?) 42:04 - Heading to Freelancer 43:40 - Dragonfly enters Freelancer DEPARTURE TO MOON 44:24 - Heading to moon. Pirate camp visible from space. 45:44 - Dragonfly flown out to moon. COMBAT 46:20 - Combat with ground vehicle begins. 47:21 - First enemy killed after circle strafe shootout 48:55 - Second player exits vehicle, FPS shootout 50:00 - Freelancer finishes off second enemy 50:48 - Grabby hands of unidentified box on Moon bases. 51:34 - After walking from station, box dropped for player 2 to retrieve SURPRISE 51:40 - New video message received 52:16 - Double cross revealed. 3 enemy ships fly into view, presumably to attack and retrieve cargo. Mission ends on cliffhanger, begging many questions about what remains to complete the mission, and how betrayal by a major mission giver will impact that player's relationship with that mission giver going forward. It's year 5, guys. Hope you hired somebody to start thinking about how to put some Fun in this thing. You can't put that off forever. 1900! (And I killed thread momentum once again... sorry guys. I just wanted to contribute something even though I'm duty bound elsewhere for much of the day... forgive me.) G0RF fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 17:33
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So after all this they are only going to show 3.0 in their big presentation. How are people going to fall for this, I know they will because they are loving cultists but how? How can people take what they saw last year and reconcile it with the poo poo they are showing right now and then contrast it with what they'll show tomorrow? Aw poo poo man everything was faked last year, it was poo poo just yesterday and somehow its great now!? Sign me the gently caress up where is my credit card!?
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Aug 24, 2017 17:37
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OnPhysicsPostStep is trying to set position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the position in the grid that's different from the grid of the current Zone the
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Aug 24, 2017 17:38
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Any box carrying at Gamescom?
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Aug 24, 2017 17:39
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happyhippy posted:Any box carrying at Gamescom? Yeah, boxes full of money.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:41
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C-Bangin' it 
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happyhippy posted:Any box carrying at Gamescom? Surprisingly no. It's amazing how low the bar for gameplay is and the fact that they still fail to get over that bar. Or. Colostomy Bag posted:Yeah, boxes full of money.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:43
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The citizens who were hoping it would take 8 hours to unload their ship must be devastated.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:45
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Truga posted:I still like everything SC is promising, it's exactly my kind of autism heaven. What it's delivering, however... Crazy_BlackParrot posted:can we autoban everyone using the word dragon dildo? Karl?
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Aug 24, 2017 17:47
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Polish Avenger posted:The only hole this theory has is the netcode. Assuming there is none, this is a really attractive theory. Really, for this demo there should be little evidence of network desync (but Star Citizen finds a way!). But knowing that the netcode is so hosed that you get desync in the same room as the server and the other clients, it's not a stretch to think there are no scaling issues and it's just the lovely netcode and a terrible flight model causing everything we are seeing. Is there any reason to believe there's any "netcode" being shown here at all? They could be using a TCP LAN build or whatever the relevant TLAs would be in this case.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:48
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Ben Lesnick, Developer Chris Roberts, Project Manager Sandi Gardiner, Actress Jared Huckabee, Honest Brian Chambers, Knowledgeable Erin Roberts, Leader
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Aug 24, 2017 17:49
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Cao Ni Ma posted:So after all this they are only going to show 3.0 in their big presentation. How are people going to fall for this, I know they will because they are loving cultists but how? How can people take what they saw last year and reconcile it with the poo poo they are showing right now and then contrast it with what they'll show tomorrow? Aw poo poo man everything was faked last year, it was poo poo just yesterday and somehow its great now!? Sign me the gently caress up where is my credit card!? I bet most of CIG don't know what's going to be shown tomorrow because of leak fear. I also wouldn't trust Chris Roberts saying they won't show anything from SQ42 either, that fella seems to lie a lot.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:49
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Lazrin posted:Star Citizen - i don't think any of that is true.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:50
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im dying
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Aug 24, 2017 17:51
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:You don't understand it because you're not invested in it. Having been there, I can tell you that it's really loving hard to give up something after putting hundreds (if not thousands) of hours and dollars into a dream. Chris is extremely good at telling people what they want to hear, and the kind of people who are still invested are the ones who really want to hear it. Hell even now, nearly a year after I got my refund, I saw the Cutlass flying over the planet while the guy tried to snipe ships on the ground and thought "wow that looks really good, I wish I had kept my Cutlass because I could see that being a lot of fun". But then I saw the glitches, and the failures, and the reset, and remembered that no amount of dreams is going to make Chris any more competent or CIG any less hosed. It takes an immense amount of effort for someone to get outside of their perspective and see Star Citizen for what it is, as opposed to what people want it to be. Accepting that CIG has failed, that after nearly six years of development they have nothing close to what they should, also means that you need to accept that you as a backer have failed. You made a mistake and have wasted all of that time, effort, and (if you can't get a refund) money encouraging the ego of a narcissistic "visionary" who lacks the competence and professionalism to actually deliver on his marketing. You have to accept that you look like an idiot, and a lot of people would rather maintain the delusion than accept that. It's one of the ways that scammers maintain their scam. Great post man.  For those who don't know, Beer was an absolute god over at the RSI forums. He contributed incredibly well-reasoned posts that provided valuable, insightful feedback to CIG. He was openly critical when it was appropriate, and praised CIG when they did well. He really was the ideal citizen. Balanced, thoughtful, and most importantly, held CIG's feet to the fire when they needed it. But the toxic, ignorant community ostracized him for having a view that was not pure hype and positivity. I know exactly the moment in the cutlass you're describing. In fairness, it was a great moment. But as we all know, that's the CIG way. When you have an unbiased perspective, you quickly zoom out to 30,000 feet, and see it's just a tiny island with one coconut tree surrounded by an open ocean of utter failure and unsustainable incompetence. They produce these infinitesimally small snapshots which are machine-stamped, boxed, and shipped to the marketing department to be repackaged and advertised en masse for the sole purpose of increased revenue. The fact is, Chris Roberts doesn't actually like video games. If he did, he would be talking about and (more importantly) showing gameplay. He would be driving his organization to produce a game that you can play. Star Citizen would be something you could actually play without tumbling down the matchstick house. He would be uncompromising in his pursuit of a fun experience for the end-user. Instead, he compromises Star Citizen The Game at every turn out of unfathomable, incalculable narcissism. In reality, his entire world view is centered around building a cinematic monument to his "genius." All he really wants is a perpetual sizzle real. He wants that roaring applause when the space commando flips the helmet in the air and pulls it on like a "badass." That "moment" right there was the pinnacle of Star Citizen. That was the plan. That was the pitch, the pledge, that's every 10FTC, ATV, every art asset, and every line of code. Right there. The "game" is filler which acts as a simple bonding agent between stunted, imbecilic Chris Roberts mini-movies.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:52
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G0RF posted:FWIW, below is a detailed log I wrote up but never poster of last year's Gamescom preview of Alpha 3.0 mission design last year. I thought it would useful to break it down into activity type, to get a snapshot of their vision for what an hour of gameplay in 3.0 should really feel like. Might as well post it here, considering what Erin apparently said and on the eve of (maybe) an update on THE VISION. Not only has CIG not learned from one of the most successful games of this young century, but they've actually regressed in the "waste of player's time" category. Amazing. Of course, even seeing that would be an improvement over the shitstorm on display this year. An hour of idle time to get to content beats spending 15 minutes of featureless non-content before the system melts down and you repeat your aimless wandering in a brown limbo.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:52
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:Is there any reason to believe there's any "netcode" being shown here at all? They could be using a TCP LAN build or whatever the relevant TLAs would be in this case. The tough part with anything like this is wondering if CIG could make a demo branch using TCP instead of UDP and not gently caress it up so bad it doesn't work at all. They do so little in a year we don't really know that they are capable of doing anything.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:53
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Cao Ni Ma posted:So after all this they are only going to show 3.0 in their big presentation. How are people going to fall for this, I know they will because they are loving cultists but how? How can people take what they saw last year and reconcile it with the poo poo they are showing right now and then contrast it with what they'll show tomorrow? Aw poo poo man everything was faked last year, it was poo poo just yesterday and somehow its great now!? Sign me the gently caress up where is my credit card!? 100% guaranteed Chris will not go on that stage without a giant sandworm in his pocket to pull out and amaze people with. Figuratively speaking. Whatever this year's Sandworm is, he's had people cooking it up for months. There is only one part of this job he truly loves, and that is starring as the lead visionary in an ongoing stage fiction about the making of the world's greatest game. He is addicted to the high of adulation and manbaby worship, every bit as much as is wife is addicted to her dreams of celebrity and cultural validation by inclusion into the upper ranks of Hollywood. Sandworm is not a joke and he will spring one on the world tomorrow.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:53
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My story is a bit different to Beer's. I bought the game for £40 or whatever, loaded it up and thought 'This is poo poo' then began mercilessly mocking it and it's fanbase at every opportunity. Only a few weeks later did I find out Chris Roberts was involved and at that point I just rolled my eyes and laughed. I did no research on it at all and never really thought it was anything but something new to dick around in in VR. I'll never get a refund because having the ability to play the single worst game I have ever owned is cool and funny. The game is a poo poo idea done poorly and I am delighted to be a part of it lol
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Aug 24, 2017 17:56
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G0RF posted:100% guaranteed Chris will not go on that stage without a giant sandworm in his pocket to pull out and amaze people with. Figuratively speaking. Whatever this year's Sandworm is, he's had people cooking it up for months. There is only one part of this job he truly loves, and that is starring as the lead visionary in an ongoing stage fiction about the making of the world's greatest game. He is addicted to the high of adulation and manbaby worship, every bit as much as is wife is addicted to her dreams of celebrity and cultural validation by inclusion into the upper ranks of Hollywood. Really not sure I'm appreciating the imagery of Chris Roberts pulling his Sandworm out of his pocket to amaze people on stage G0RF. I mean, I know what you are alluding to, but that imagery just grinds to a halt after that sentence.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:56
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Eldragon posted:You have to go with the information you have available at the time. Back in 2012-2014 the project seems reasonable in scope and it had not been in development long enough to expect much output from CIG. But as time has moved farther on, and the project shows less progress, question were asked of CIG that they refused to answer. Nah, right from the start people were buying in entirely on the reputation of Chris Roberts and I was like "That guy who hasn't made games in a decade, the last of which (with a curiously similar design spec) he was sacked from because he burned a load of money and was nowhere near having something ready to ship?" I didn't get where the hero worship was coming from, especially as David Braben aka The Guy Who Created Space Sims got none of that hype. Back in 2012 Chris Roberts was someone who couldn't get a major publisher to give him money and that should have set off instant alarm bells for everyone.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:57
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G0RF posted:100% guaranteed Chris will not go on that stage without a giant sandworm in his pocket to pull out and amaze people with. Figuratively speaking. Whatever this year's Sandworm is, he's had people cooking it up for months. There is only one part of this job he truly loves, and that is starring as the lead visionary in an ongoing stage fiction about the making of the world's greatest game. He is addicted to the high of adulation and manbaby worship, every bit as much as is wife is addicted to her dreams of celebrity and cultural validation by inclusion into the upper ranks of Hollywood. you know what would have been at least slightly interesting... if they took the total real and not scripted sandworm from last years demo and had it on whatever loving moon the streamers are playing on right now. let it pop out of the ground randomly, maybe spit some acid, and players could try to kill it, you know? like actual game play with teamwork, goals, rewards. it'd even fit nicely in a 15 minute timeframe. You'd think it wouldnt be hard seeing as how it all supposedly existed a year ago.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:58
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It's like they just work for a year to make a playable demo to wow everyone at gamescom with no ability to even consider how they make that into a live game.
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Aug 24, 2017 17:58
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Santaball will be Chris's big reveal
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Aug 24, 2017 17:59
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Polish Avenger posted:It's like they just work for a year to make a playable demo to wow everyone at gamescom with no ability to even consider how they make that into a live game. You dont understand Fleecing development
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Aug 24, 2017 18:01
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toiletbrush posted:I dunno what advanced never-been-done-before tech CIG are using but it's behaving exactly like the physics engine I wrote like 15 years ago when I first learnt about Verlet integration. There were certain kinds of collisions it wouldn't reliably detect so you'd get crazy clipping just like we've been seeing, and then when the engine realised two bodies were intersecting it wouldn't know how to correctly project one out of the other so things would shudder or periodically 'bounce' out like that body jerking down the ramp instead of smoothly sliding in this clip . https://clips.twitch.tv/AmorphousSmallMageBleedPurple CIG presentation tomorrow : "We will be introducing our brand new, never done before tech, we are calling it Verlet integration, it has a few flaws that needed refactoring. There were certain kinds of collisions it wouldn't reliably detect so you'd get crazy clipping just like we've been seeing, and then when the engine realised two bodies were intersecting it wouldn't know how to correctly project one out of the other so things would shudder or periodically 'bounce' out like that body jerking down the ramp instead of smoothly sliding in this clip . But we are confident this groundbreaking tech will be good for Star Citizen because..."
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Aug 24, 2017 18:02
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The big reveal will be a battle royale mode for star marine. The circle will instantly go from maximum to minimum radius killing all the commandos. CIG will spend 18 months trying to make the circle shrink in increments, a new style of game will be at the top of the steam charts and no one will give a poo poo about battle royale anymore.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:02
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Lazrin posted:i don't think any of that is true. You didn't need the last five words there. ManofManyAliases posted:Tell me who I am. Who do you think I am, what makes you think that, and how can you be so sure without proof? I'm a lowly backer and that's all you need to know. A lowly backer that is curiously on-point. ManofManyAliases posted:I showed my billing info. AP has a spreadsheet - he's my SA-provided bookkeeper. Go bother him. ...and saucy with it.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:02
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After watching most of this fiasco it just dawned on me. Roberts has basically tried to make "Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing" into a MMORPG. e: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rigs:_Over_the_Road_Racing
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Aug 24, 2017 18:07
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What. The. gently caress? http://i.imgur.com/aF6wmFn.mp4
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Aug 24, 2017 18:08
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Colostomy Bag posted:After watching most of this fiasco it just dawned on me.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:09
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SelenicMartian posted:What. The. gently caress? immersed the camera in the wall
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Aug 24, 2017 18:10
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Colostomy Bag posted:After watching most of this fiasco it just dawned on me. Heh. I was having the same thought earlier today. But what does this mean for the Citizens? Surely, it must be a good thing.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:11
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Percelus posted:i'm not a game dev or anything but it seems like even at this late date they would be better off just starting from scratch and creating an engine capable of doing what he promised, instead they are going with the build a poo poo game in a broken engine route If I were Chris Robbems I would have offered the Hellion devs $5 million for their source code and expertise for a year or two. Import all your art assets into their engine, wrap up the features they are already working on, release it and call it Star Citizen v0.8 or what the gently caress ever.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:12
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AbstractNapper posted:Heh. I was having the same thought earlier today. Well it shares the same physics.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:13
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Colostomy Bag posted:After watching most of this fiasco it just dawned on me. Hopefully when this is all over Croberts will have the same rep as Sergey Titov
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Aug 24, 2017 18:13
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Polish Avenger posted:The tough part with anything like this is wondering if CIG could make a demo branch using TCP instead of UDP and not gently caress it up so bad it doesn't work at all. They do so little in a year we don't really know that they are capable of doing anything. Well, we know where they're heading - https://github.com/networkprotocol/yojimbo That's so much a generic stack that I'm still not quite understanding why they aren't using the mature one that they already have, apart from the whole 'jamming packets down a pipe' 'we cannae change the laws of physics' brick wall. Oh, and to MoMa's 'EC2 with autoscaling', that's really not how poo poo works. Autoscaling works by setting a specific metric, then spawning a new EC2 instance; latency between making the request and the instance answering is in the minute range, and is something that you'd work out on a trailing and following model of keeping an overhead on hot standby. Netflix's chaos monkey actually goes farther and spins up 10x instances, measuring response time and killing the 70% that are slowest. Y'see, Amazon doesn't guarantee performance on EC2. You can even go for a lower tier of pricing that has your poo poo garbage collected really aggressively, but the actual network and compute performance varies wildly. Amazon is the Walmart of hosting at the moment, and the best model for it is actually event-based microservices backed by data stores of various types (S3, RDS, etc). 'Autoscaling' is the cloud equivalent of a white whale; if you need it, you need to come up with something better than the Amazon model. Now, what I'm seeing in the actual streams isn't revolutionary or even that interesting in terms of the client-server model that they have going; they're running into the same problems everyone has, and that's part of the problem. If you're effectively re-treading old ground, why are you not benefiting from everyone else's faceplants? Why does Item2.0 exist? Are they over-abstracting on the basis that Moore's law will overcome the inherent inefficiencies? Because networking isn't advancing at the same speed as GPUs. big nipples big life posted:The big reveal will be a battle royale mode for star marine. The circle will instantly go from maximum to minimum radius killing all the commandos. CIG will spend 18 months trying to make the circle shrink in increments, a new style of game will be at the top of the steam charts and no one will give a poo poo about battle royale anymore. This or a racing game for ground vehicles, with a track and poo poo. Tijuana Bibliophile posted:Is there any reason to believe there's any "netcode" being shown here at all? They could be using a TCP LAN build or whatever the relevant TLAs would be in this case. Could be LAN, null modem or wet noodle, you still need netcode to hit a server. We're long past the days of worrying about the network; long live TCP/IP. Hav fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Aug 24, 2017 |
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Aug 24, 2017 18:17
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I've found a game that might stand a chance of beating SC as far as fidelity and scope and vision goes.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:18
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does anyone have a list of good clips from todays stream?
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Aug 24, 2017 18:19
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| # ? May 1, 2024 18:38 |
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At some point it will dawn on Crobblers that the publishers he worked with in the past were not working against him but were actually protecting him (and themselves of course) from being ridiculed to no end for being a fraud. I mean even the community has started posing the question of who is there to shoot Crobbls down when he goes off on yet another parp tangent about new fidelitious features and sand worms.
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Aug 24, 2017 18:19
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