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A more optimistic read on the finale: https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comments/6y5dpt/s3e18_cooper_saves_the_day_once_and_for_all/?st=J77V0QKG&sh=8d159bd4
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Sep 5, 2017 18:20
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tao of lmao posted:A more optimistic read on the finale: I've seen a few optimistic interpretations, but they always seem to ignore how everything in those final moments is staged, filmed, edited, soundtracked, etc. Its all working together to make an atmosphere of horror. And More posted:I'm slightly sad that James never carries an owl around. Owls in general were kind of missing from this season. The hobos were the owls. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Sep 5, 2017 |
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Sep 5, 2017 18:27
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Alright, there's at least one thing I'm having trouble understanding. Bob was destroyed before Cooper went through the portals. So why did Major Briggs & company urge him to go on? What were they trying to achieve? If their goal was truly to save Laura, well, wouldn't the lodge spirits know better than that? People say that Cooper was overestimating himself and/or naive, but what about them?
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Sep 5, 2017 18:32
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tao of lmao posted:A more optimistic read on the finale: Yeah, I'm sure Laura's blood-curdling scream and the sudden, violent cut to blackness means that Coop defeated Judy (by knocking on a door and asking a woman some questions about ownership?) and everything is good
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Sep 5, 2017 18:38
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Vogler posted:Alright, there's at least one thing I'm having trouble understanding. Bob was destroyed before Cooper went through the portals. So why did Major Briggs & company urge him to go on? What were they trying to achieve? If their goal was truly to save Laura, well, wouldn't the lodge spirits know better than that? People say that Cooper was overestimating himself and/or naive, but what about them? Agreed. If anything, they hosed up just as much as Cooper.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:41
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So did the hobos pull bob out of Booper the first time to see if he was done cooking yet or
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Sep 5, 2017 18:42
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Vogler posted:Alright, there's at least one thing I'm having trouble understanding. Bob was destroyed before Cooper went through the portals. So why did Major Briggs & company urge him to go on? What were they trying to achieve? If their goal was truly to save Laura, well, wouldn't the lodge spirits know better than that? People say that Cooper was overestimating himself and/or naive, but what about them? Everyone always assumes that the Giant, MIKE etc. are omniscient and infallible. What if they're not? FWIW, I'm not sure Cooper has hosed up, or at least not entirely.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:43
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Vogler posted:Alright, there's at least one thing I'm having trouble understanding. Bob was destroyed before Cooper went through the portals. So why did Major Briggs & company urge him to go on? What were they trying to achieve? If their goal was truly to save Laura, well, wouldn't the lodge spirits know better than that? People say that Cooper was overestimating himself and/or naive, but what about them? One possible explanation is simply that MIKE and the Fireman benefit from trapping Cooper in an endless cycle of horror. Jeffries, Briggs, and Desmond could just be other victims of the same cycle. That, or even if Cooper is momentarily lost there really is a plan against Judy that may or may not still be on track. In episode 17 Cole does say that the project was always ultimately about Judy.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:45
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I mostly liked the ending, but it did leave me with more of a "what...?" feeling than "jesus gently caress" which the original ending in S2 did. It didn't feel very impactful to me, especially compared to the rest of the season, which I suppose is my biggest complaint. I actually don't feel that strongly about it one way or the other, which is the first time that's happened in the Return, which kind of bums me out. But overall it doesn't reflect negatively upon the season for me. Edit: I actually just want more of this poo poo, really. Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Sep 5, 2017 |
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Sep 5, 2017 18:46
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paint dry posted:Everyone always assumes that the Giant, MIKE etc. are omniscient and infallible. What if they're not? When MIKE asks Cooper whether its future or past maybe he genuinely doesn't know, and that's why they rely on mortals to do their work for them.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:47
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So is the two parts of the two part finale like, pick your ending? Hopeful and nonsense or dark and probably hosed up.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:47
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If the Fireman's aim was really to trap Cooper in an endless cycle of horror, then I feel like nothing in Twin Peaks can be taken at face value. I mean, the dude looks like a literal saint.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:51
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Polo-Rican posted:Yeah, I'm sure Laura's blood-curdling scream and the sudden, violent cut to blackness means that Coop defeated Judy (by knocking on a door and asking a woman some questions about ownership?) and everything is good The one point of optimism I can agree with in that take is that it's interesting that the lights went out in the Palmer home when Laura screamed. Everything related to the black lodge and judy has involved electricity. I can buy the power winking out at the end as a good omen, despite the general horror of the rest of it.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:56
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I think even the moon turned off
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Sep 5, 2017 18:57
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Vogler posted:If the Fireman's aim was really to trap Cooper in an endless cycle of horror, then I feel like nothing in Twin Peaks can be taken at face value. I mean, the dude looks like a literal saint. Seems like the spirits see humans the way we might think of animals. Specifically like how a beekeeper sees his bees, or a dairy farmer sees his cows. The name of the Fireman seems to mean that he puts out the fires that the others set, to protect their status-quo. However there's no reason to think their status-quo is favorable to people.
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Sep 5, 2017 18:57
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The only reason I can see for Cooper trying to save Laura is to defeat Judy. He isn't trying to save her because he feels bad for her. Gordon Cole kind of lays it all out there at the beginning of the episode. That's why he takes her home in Richard and Linda timeline. It wasn't for a family reunion, it's because Judy inhabits Sarah (the girl who lived down the lane imo). The fact we never got to see this confrontation is what I was most disappointed about when it ended. If Sarah had opened the door and Carrie screamed the exact same way it would have been much more satisfying to me at the time. After tossing and turning in bed all night and getting goosebumps well into the next day every time I thought about that final scream I have really come around on the finale though I still think it makes a better Season 4 opener than a Season 3 finale. The way I see it Cooper did not fail, he is trapped in a dream created by Judy to keep Laura at bay and at the end Carrie shatters that dream. I would love to see the conclusion to Judy/Laura. In the end I think Lynch got what he was looking for out of me because from the sex scene through the final scene I felt about every possible negative emotion I can think of and probably produced as much Garmonbozia as a television show could elicit. Gonna watch it again tonight and probably have a completely different reading though, who knows.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:02
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i liked this shot in ep 11 with the black/white cars opposite as well
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Sep 5, 2017 19:07
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put a bird on it!
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Sep 5, 2017 19:08
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Lord Krangdar posted:Seems like the spirits see humans the way we might think of animals. Specifically like how a beekeeper sees his bees, or a dairy farmer sees his cows. The name of the Fireman seems to mean that he puts out the fires that the others set, to protect their status-quo. However there's no reason to think their status-quo is favorable to people. I don't agree with this. The Fireman have always seemed upset or saddened when bad things are happening. Both spirits and people in Twin Peaks wear their true nature on their sleeve - the way they dress, how they talk - I can't think of a single exception.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:08
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 So this is my buddy's bathroom. I liked the ending, but need to rewatch 18 again because I feel like I'm missing something. Glad I didn't ruin it for myself.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:11
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I don't think it's that easy to assign motives to extradimensional beings who can bend and change reality at will. The Fireman may have so far done things we would consider "good", but that's only from our perspective.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:17
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Solice Kirsk posted:
Stealing your buddy's bathroom deco when I paint my apartment.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:19
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Krinkle posted:So is the two parts of the two part finale like, pick your ending? Hopeful and nonsense or dark and probably hosed up. Imagine if Ep. 17 really were the finale. Right now we would all be kvetching about how silly and cartoonish the "Freddie punches Mega Man miniboss BOBORB into hell with his Home Depot gardening glove that we first found out about third-hand like four episodes ago" resolution to this whole epic story is. I think once it had settled in a little bit it would seem like that ending was even more of a Lynch gently caress-you to the fans than Ep. 18 was.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:20
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Also I had a dark thought. What if, when Cooper exits in Glasonbury Grove, he seems different because he knows what he needs to do, and it isn't a 'good' thing? Judy has whisked Laura away to some hosed up dimension where he and Diane try to follow, but they need to go even deeper, and the sex scene is a way of collecting garmonbozia for the trip. He wakes in another hotel where they have now taken the places of Richard and Linda, and Diane leaves because it was too much for her, or she lost herself in the persona of Linda. hosed if true and probably not true, but I do like the idea in general that Dale is acting more like 'Mr. C' because he knows this isn't real, it's a Black Lodge illusion of some kind. So his behaviour in the diner is a means to an end. On the long drive to Twin Peaks perhaps he starts to lose a little of himself in Richard, like Diane did in Linda, and this is why he seems so disoriented during and after the encounter with Tremond at the house. Probably this is all nonsense, but I'm high.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:25
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http://subliminalsynchrosphere.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/twin-peaks-under-sycamore-tree_9.html heres my thoughts on what it all means
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Sep 5, 2017 19:25
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Unrelated to the current discussion: The scenes with Diane after Cooper emerged from Glastonbury Grove felt kind of messy to me. Lots of time skips (of the filmmaking variety). I think the show did a poor job of conveying why Diane was there- most importantly how she managed to interpret his final word to her correctly -and the cut to them driving on the highway during the day made me feel like I'd skipped a couple minutes of the episode.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:32
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I've seen alot of takes about what the world that Cooper and Diane enters really is. When Cooper revisits the lodge Mike says "the past dictates the future" and then Cooper changes the past. The show spends a lot of time setting this up. So why would it be a dream or a different dimension, instead of a different timeline?
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Sep 5, 2017 19:35
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I still think all of that was part of the Lodge's/Judy's illusion, and the last time we saw the 'real' Diane was in the basement of the Great Northern. ^^ my view is Dale didn't truly change things, or if he did he created some kind of split. but Laura disappearing in the woods was Judy's way of saying 'gently caress you, you can't save her' and whisking her away into some illusion. a dream, if you will, where perhaps laura is the dreamer. this is why everything goes black at the end when she screams, and we see them in the lodge again. dale managed to find his way to Laura in this illusion Judy had crafted, and when Laura remembers her real past she wakes, but instead of being saved or winning against Judy they end up back where they started. i like to think laura is whispering to dale not to save her, it won't work, he'll end up lost like jeffries. whatever it is, he looks terrified. esperterra fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Sep 5, 2017 |
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Sep 5, 2017 19:35
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CJacobs posted:For the people who were wondering about who the actress playing Mrs. Tremond is: She's not an actress, it's the lady who actually owns the house in real life. I loving KNEW that when I saw her. She acted so perfectly like just some suburban homeowner, with strangers showing up at her house, looking for people who aren't there and don't even actually exist. I said to myself, "I bet she really lives in that house" and she loving DOES. auuugh
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Sep 5, 2017 19:38
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paint dry posted:Everyone always assumes that the Giant, MIKE etc. are omniscient and infallible. What if they're not? Hell, what if they're malicious? One read I always considered from s2 is that Major Briggs may have been profoundly wrong about the "White Lodge". What if he's been a patsy for evil spirits this whole time, rather than a mystical omniscient hero dad? The idea of him being a kind of shaman always rang hollow to me; it seemed somehow false in comparison to thinking of characters like Cooper and Cole as visionary seekers.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:39
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quadpus posted:I loving KNEW that when I saw her. She acted so perfectly like just some suburban homeowner, with strangers showing up at her house, looking for people who aren't there and don't even actually exist. I said to myself, "I bet she really lives in that house" and she loving DOES. auuugh She also got to do a song at the Roadhouse since Lynch was really happy they got to use the house again
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Sep 5, 2017 19:43
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Data Graham posted:Imagine if Ep. 17 really were the finale.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:43
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:I think this is the point Lynch is making with the dual endings. I could buy that if I thought they were originally supposed to air together, but I have a feeling that was decided after it was all done. Otherwise I'm not sure we would have watched the whole scene of Dale leading Laura through the woods a second time in 18, the episodes would have flowed into one another more naturally.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:45
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wizard on a water slide posted:Hell, what if they're malicious? That would parallel him nicely with Cooper because Briggs is the character most similar to Cooper in that he's competent and moral and basically fixated on doing good. And we know the lodge lead Briggs to no good end.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:46
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Now that I think about it, one thing that supports it being an illusion is that Laura works at a cafe named Judy's.
Vogler fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Sep 5, 2017 |
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Sep 5, 2017 19:52
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:
quote:In Part 15, it appears that the man's face is superimposed with the face of Grace Zabriskie, who plays Sarah Palmer. Also he looks a lot like the probiscus cockroach that might have jumped into the young woman's mouth in ep 8 (who might or might not be Sarah Palmer). Also when the Laura Palmer doppleganger rushes Cooper in the S2 finale, there's a quick shot of something that looks a lot like it. Jumping Man = Mother/Judy/Sarah Palmer?
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Sep 5, 2017 19:54
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Vogler posted:Now that I think about, one thing that supports it being an illusion is that Laura works at a cafe named Judy's. That was my big tip off to the idea, before the ending at the house and Carrie/Laura's scream.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:55
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Pedro De Heredia posted:The annoying part of this is that we spent 15 hours watching a lost Cooper, as Dougie, slowly finding himself. Despite this I think it is on equal footing with The Wire for greatest TV ever.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:55
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I feel like the overly long Dougie cocktease is a downside to getting 18 hours of this, rather than 9. If he woke up sooner he would snap into action immediately and deal with BOB long before the finale. Similarly, Audrey being introduced so late because if we had these scenes with her all season the idea of her being in some kind of dream/illusion would become obvious too early. That said, I loved the Dougie stuff.
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Sep 5, 2017 19:57
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Vogler posted:I've seen alot of takes about what the world that Cooper and Diane enters really is. When Cooper revisits the lodge Mike says "the past dictates the future" and then Cooper changes the past. The show spends a lot of time setting this up. So why would it be a dream or a different dimension, instead of a different timeline? Because Laura not getting killed that night doesn't explain any of the other changes to that world. Why would that remake her into a woman named Carrie Page? Also IIRC MIKE asks is it future or is it past. It's Cooper who declares that the past dictates the future.
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Sep 5, 2017 20:03
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