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Mu Zeta posted:There's a bunch of shows like that now. Did you know USA produced 100 episodes of Suits, 75 episodes of Covert Affairs, and 81 episodes of White Collar? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDxVi8gbHZ4
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Sep 6, 2017 09:19
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Ally McBeal was 100% replaced by Boston Legal in the sort-of-dramatic lawyer comedy. It's also been basically forgotten apart from being a stable for aging leading actors and a host of character actors. Shatner, Spader, Larroquette, Auberjonois, Candice Bergen, Rhona Mitra. well why not has a new favorite as of 09:55 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 09:52
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well why not posted:Ally McBeal was 100% replaced by Boston Legal in the sort-of-dramatic lawyer comedy. I was going to say that surely The Practice came first but then I checked and it turns out it started the same year as Ally McBeal. Who'd have thought? David E. Kelley had a lot of shows, most of which were about lawyers in Boston. Fun fact: before he became a TV producer and writer, David E. Kelley was a lawyer in Boston. Who'd have thought? It must be him, Bellisario and the guy who created Charlie's Angels who created or co-created the most TV shows between them. Remember when Kelley tried to start a Wonder Woman show? I'm pretty she was a lawyer in Boston in that as well.
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Sep 6, 2017 09:57
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SEX BURRITO posted:When Al Bundy kept complaining about those 200lb monsters. Surely nobody could get that fat? Yeah, now you mention it: you see the scene about these behemoths and the women that they use are not much heavier than the average weight for women in 2017
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Sep 6, 2017 10:00
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spog posted:Yeah, now you mention it: you see the scene about these behemoths and the women that they use are not much heavier than the average weight for women in 2017 Marty is a great old movie and all but the idea that Ernest Borgnine and Betsy Blair are unfuckable hags is just adorable.
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Sep 6, 2017 10:05
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well why not posted:Ally McBeal was 100% replaced by Boston Legal in the sort-of-dramatic lawyer comedy. Speaking of Boston Legal, in retrospect Alan Shore's (Spader's character) ongoing verbal sexual harassment of basically anyone in a skirt is pretty loving  . I mean, the show at least does acknowledge he's a creepy lecher, but it's generally laughed off as just a character quirk.
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Sep 6, 2017 10:06
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Guy Mann posted:Marty is a great old movie and all but the idea that Ernest Borgnine and Betsy Blair are unfuckable hags is just adorable. Yeah it's a great movie and I wish there were more like it.
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Sep 6, 2017 10:35
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And now I'm wondering what a live action Ace Attorney TV show would look like. Obviously audiences can't get enough of courtroom shenanigans.
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Sep 6, 2017 10:47
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Inescapable Duck posted:And now I'm wondering what a live action Ace Attorney TV show would look like. Obviously audiences can't get enough of courtroom shenanigans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yum0MSXWltc
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Sep 6, 2017 10:56
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Inescapable Duck posted:And now I'm wondering what a live action Ace Attorney TV show would look like. Obviously audiences can't get enough of courtroom shenanigans. Like that but also more like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIi44sSQCDs
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Sep 6, 2017 11:09
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Deltasquid posted:Like that but also more like this Gumshoe actually being Asian is weird to me, but they absolutely nailed his mannerisms. spog posted:Yeah, now you mention it: you see the scene about these behemoths and the women that they use are not much heavier than the average weight for women in 2017 A lot of things have gotten weird in retrospect because of this, like Homer Simpson being a total freak for being over 300lb. Hell, the old Judge Dredd comics had the fatty subculture which looks weird today because the artists literally didn't know what someone that fat would actually look like, but now we do. (like melted candles)
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Sep 6, 2017 11:21
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Leavemywife posted:Sex and the City, maybe? What about JAG? Both of those seemed super popular for whatever reason, but I don't think many people talk about them now. I think a lot of it is just familiarity. You watched JAG every Saturday at 9 o'clock. Walker, Texas Ranger every Friday at 8. NBC and ABC made whole marketing campaigns out of making sure people knew exactly what day these shows were on. Familiarity was such a big deal that changing a show's time slot was often a kiss of death. I have no idea how that works when everyone has DVR's or you can stream whatever you want. I think it means people will still watch stupid poo poo, but if it gets boring and stupid they're less likely to watch it as part of a routine. Shows that jump the shark die far quicker now than they used to. Case in point, the Fonz jumped the shark in season 5 of Happy Days,although the show went on for another 5 years.
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Sep 6, 2017 13:14
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Krispy Kareem posted:Shows that jump the shark die far quicker now than they used to. Case in point, the Fonz jumped the shark in season 5 of Happy Days,although the show went on for another 5 years. Sure, Happy Days was on when there were only the three channels, wasn't it?
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Sep 6, 2017 13:43
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Perestroika posted:Speaking of Boston Legal, in retrospect Alan Shore's (Spader's character) ongoing verbal sexual harassment of basically anyone in a skirt is pretty loving That show has insane tone deafness. The two leads (Shatner & Spader) are gross, fat hornbags who treat everyone like poo poo constantly, but then it gets all sad about Shatner's character potentially, slowly, gradually losing some of his mental capacity due to being in his 70s. The show has more sympathy for his slowly creeping 'mad cow' than like the six people he shoots during the course of the show. To say nothing of the victims of their lying, cheating and lawyering ways.
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Sep 6, 2017 14:03
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Wheat Loaf posted:I was going to say that surely The Practice came first but then I checked and it turns out it started the same year as Ally McBeal. Who'd have thought? It's funny, we just talked about how Picket Fences and X-Files tried and failed to pull off the rare crossover that goes beyond network. Well, Kelley succeeded with Ally McBeal and The Practice, having them share a case and guest on each other's shows. It was weird, because while both shows were legal dramas with quirky characters and romantic shenanigans, the 2 shows were wildly different tonally, down to even different color and camera styles. I want to say the case ended with the client killing themselves which definitely wouldn't be something you'd see on McBeal, at least not without major ramifications. Instead, the plot wasn't mentioned again. I want to also say that while Fox hyped up the crossover, ABC said not a drat thing, maybe mentioning in ads that Callista Flockheart was guesting. If you hadn't figured out the gimmick, you'd be very confused. I can only imagine the frustration from the home video audiences.
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Sep 6, 2017 14:08
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Inescapable Duck posted:And now I'm wondering what a live action Ace Attorney TV show would look like. Obviously audiences can't get enough of courtroom shenanigans. The Grinder was a hilarious show and it loving sucks that it got cancelled. Also Rake was pretty good too.
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Sep 6, 2017 14:10
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Does a show really count as "not aging well" if it happens in a certain era and accurately depicts how people acted and what they believed in that era? Reading through this whole thread and most of the "character x was sexist/racist/etc." stuff makes sense to me and makes shows unwatchable, but sometimes it's like how do you expect them to portray someone somewhere when people were totally sexist? I'm not talking about the current 90s stuff, and I'm genuinely asking.
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Sep 6, 2017 15:21
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Krispy Kareem posted:I think a lot of it is just familiarity. You watched JAG every Saturday at 9 o'clock. Walker, Texas Ranger every Friday at 8. NBC and ABC made whole marketing campaigns out of making sure people knew exactly what day these shows were on. Familiarity was such a big deal that changing a show's time slot was often a kiss of death. I was talking to friends about this kind of stuff in relation to Macguyver. I mean, Macguyver was really a pretty cruddy show but we all loved it due to it being pure "comfort television" where you get to spend an hour every sunday night (or whevever) just watching a by the numbers adventure or drama and come away feeling content. Granted it doesnt make for critically good watching but theres something to be said for television that doesnt want to kick you in the balls at every moment.
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Sep 6, 2017 15:33
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BrainDance posted:Does a show really count as "not aging well" if it happens in a certain era and accurately depicts how people acted and what they believed in that era? Reading through this whole thread and most of the "character x was sexist/racist/etc." stuff makes sense to me and makes shows unwatchable, but sometimes it's like how do you expect them to portray someone somewhere when people were totally sexist? I think it has a lot to do with how were supposed to see the character. Many earlier shows you see casual misogyny, homophobia, etc. And that character is still the hero and were meant to laugh with them. You can portray these things but you gotta kinda nudge people to say they shouldn't see it as condoning these things.
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Sep 6, 2017 15:35
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When you have a show like Mad Men it's a conscious period piece and you realise that the attitudes portrayed are presented as products of their time and (usually) aren't being endorsed by the actors, writers or producers. Conversely, a show like Friends was always meant to be current; it was meant to reflect the "real" lives of its characters to some degree, so when you get all these jokes about how CHANDLER is GAY!!! presented without comment, or even the fact that it's set in New York in the mid-90s but it seems to be a version of New York with maybe four black people in it, it immediately makes the show seem dated or quaint.
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Sep 6, 2017 16:03
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The Jetsons only had white people in it. Major characters, minor characters, crowd shots - they just forgot to make any of the people not white. Then again, maybe it was for the best.
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Sep 6, 2017 16:08
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I think 'aging well' is more like, can someone enjoy the show now even without the nostalgia factor? Better yet, can someone who wasn't even alive then watch this series now and still like it? It's not so much, "is this offensive" although that is part of it. Part of the problem is that so many plots are recycled, that without a current connection to the actors or characters the shows are unwatchable. It's just the same 5 or 6 misunderstandings over and over. If you're lucky they'll do their version of a Christmas Carole and at some point a very special episode about homelessness or speed.
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Sep 6, 2017 16:24
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Do TV shows still have episodes where they get stuck in an elevator or locked in a walk in freezer overnight and relive a bunch of their recent escapades to pass the time?
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Sep 6, 2017 16:54
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purple death ray posted:Do TV shows still have episodes where they get stuck in an elevator or locked in a walk in freezer overnight and relive a bunch of their recent escapades to pass the time? Last time I saw that was in the Clerks animated show, which I loved at the time, but that was in high school and I've kind of soured on Kevin smith in general so don't really want to see if it holds up
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Sep 6, 2017 17:11
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Ambitious Spider posted:Last time I saw that was in the Clerks animated show, which I loved at the time, but that was in high school and I've kind of soured on Kevin smith in general so don't really want to see if it holds up Clip shows are pretty stale at this point, yeah. "Clerks" and "Community" had the only fresh takes on it I've seen in a while ("Clerks" did it as the second episode, so all their flashbacks were to the first episode; "Community"'s clips were all new footage of adventures the characters had but which were never actually episodes).
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Sep 6, 2017 17:29
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Besesoth posted:Clip shows are pretty stale at this point, yeah. "Clerks" and "Community" had the only fresh takes on it I've seen in a while ("Clerks" did it as the second episode, so all their flashbacks were to the first episode; "Community"'s clips were all new footage of adventures the characters had but which were never actually episodes). Didn't ABC not actually air the original pilot for clerks, so the clip show was actually the first episode aired? Also yeah clip shows aren't really as common nowadays with the rise of streaming and shortening of season orders. Back in the day clip shows were both a way to save money and a way to catch the audience up on the premise of a series and the best moments. With the rise of streaming sites that show both the entire series in order, and clips of the best moments of a show, they're no longer as necessary. And with shorter season orders becoming more commonplace, shows have a similar budget to spread across fewer episodes, which means that they don't have to do clip shows to build up some extra money for a finale. Instant Sunrise has a new favorite as of 17:42 on Sep 6, 2017 |
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Sep 6, 2017 17:33
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I think a concept that has aged poorly in particular is the concept of "Special episodes" about ~real life themes~ like sex/STDs and drugs and the like. It's interesting looking at recent things that were making fun of that whole era's attempt to boil a complex issue down into a child-friendly hour of boredom (and by child-friendly I mean something their parents won't whine about, no one gave a poo poo about how the actual kids felt...) like the internet show Don't Hug Me i'm Scared, that are coming out alongside modern cartoons like Star Vs or Steven Universe, which all tackle those kinds of abstractions. Star Vs has undertones about racism and historical revisionism via the Mewman-Monstrt war; Steven Universe has explored all kinds of taboo subjects like abusive relationships and emotional traumas of all kinds, and the treatment of insane people is also looked at in the characters reactions to the corrupted gems. These shows have taken things that would have been looked at in maybe a two-parter in an older show, but not drawing attention to them, just letting the characters flaws inform the mistakes that they make, which is much better storytelling.
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Sep 6, 2017 17:55
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Y'all talking about The Shield before and I'd argue that it's still really good. Except the subplot in the earlier seasons where Vic's kids are autistic and they're going to sue the company that made the vaccine or something to that effect. That has not aged like fine wine.
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Sep 6, 2017 17:59
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Instant Sunrise posted:Didn't ABC not actually air the original pilot for clerks, so the clip show was actually the first episode aired? Yeah, ABC aired the second episode, and then the fourth episode, both seemingly at random. I still think the cartoon holds up better than most anything else Smith has done.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:13
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Besesoth posted:Clip shows are pretty stale at this point, yeah. "Clerks" and "Community" had the only fresh takes on it I've seen in a while ("Clerks" did it as the second episode, so all their flashbacks were to the first episode; "Community"'s clips were all new footage of adventures the characters had but which were never actually episodes). And then Rick and Morty reused the fake clip show joke only they made it diagetic by being the result of space brain parasites.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:18
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The new Teen Titans show had a bottle episode where the characters were actually trapped in a giant bottle. It was genuinely really funny.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:25
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purple death ray posted:Do TV shows still have episodes where they get stuck in an elevator or locked in a walk in freezer overnight and relive a bunch of their recent escapades to pass the time? I've been watching the Golden Girls and it feels like every fifth episode or so is a clip show. I guess before VHS recordings it was the only way to relive the best bits of the show. Other than the retro look, the Golden Girls has aged surprisingly well.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:30
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Ariong posted:The Jetsons only had white people in it. Major characters, minor characters, crowd shots - they just forgot to make any of the people not white. The first instance of Internet Racism I was exposed to was a guy in a chatroom saying "You ever see The Jetsons? The future looks bright and WHITE!", and it kind of burned itself into my memory for how funny/wrong it was.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:39
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SEX BURRITO posted:I've been watching the Golden Girls and it feels like every fifth episode or so is a clip show. I guess before VHS recordings it was the only way to relive the best bits of the show. Yeah, but no one ever looked forward to a clips episode. You weren't so much reliving the best bits as feeling cheated into watching a rerun. And Betty White's the only one whose really aged well.
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Sep 6, 2017 18:42
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Hedenius posted:Y'all talking about The Shield before and I'd argue that it's still really good. Except the subplot in the earlier seasons where Vic's kids are autistic and they're going to sue the company that made the vaccine or something to that effect. That has not aged like fine wine. Only thing (other than that) about The Shield that's aged poorly was that Kid Rock song in the first episode. 
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Sep 6, 2017 18:48
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BioEnchanted posted:I think a concept that has aged poorly in particular is the concept of "Special episodes" about ~real life themes~ like sex/STDs and drugs and the like. It's interesting looking at recent things that were making fun of that whole era's attempt to boil a complex issue down into a child-friendly hour of boredom (and by child-friendly I mean something their parents won't whine about, no one gave a poo poo about how the actual kids felt...) like the internet show Don't Hug Me i'm Scared, that are coming out alongside modern cartoons like Star Vs or Steven Universe, which all tackle those kinds of abstractions. Oh, god - you just reminded me of the hell of the After School Special. (Especially ABC's series) Imagine an occasional series, where every single one was a Very Special Episode. Kids doing drugs! (bad, don't do 'em) Teenage moms! (sad, pity 'em) Girls in Little League! (hey, why not?) They won a lot of awards, and presumably kept a bunch of TV production staff employed, but for everyone I knew, they were the equivalent of boiled brussels sprouts. Also, they pre-empted cartoons sometimes. I WANTED LOONEY TUNES, NOT MORALS. 
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Sep 6, 2017 19:16
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Atmus posted:The first instance of Internet Racism I was exposed to was a guy in a chatroom saying "You ever see The Jetsons? The future looks bright and WHITE!", and it kind of burned itself into my memory for how funny/wrong it was. I think you'd have to look pretty hard to find a black Hanna-Barbera character from the 60s-70s that wasn't either a jive soul cat stereotype or a Harlem globetrotter
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Sep 6, 2017 19:24
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Aesop Poprock posted:I think you'd have to look pretty hard to find a black Hanna-Barbera character from the 60s-70s that wasn't either a jive soul cat stereotype or a Harlem globetrotter Valerie from Josie and the Pussycats?
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Sep 6, 2017 19:42
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BrainDance posted:Does a show really count as "not aging well" if it happens in a certain era and accurately depicts how people acted and what they believed in that era? Reading through this whole thread and most of the "character x was sexist/racist/etc." stuff makes sense to me and makes shows unwatchable, but sometimes it's like how do you expect them to portray someone somewhere when people were totally sexist? it mostly comes down to 'does the punchline, lesson, message or whatever still work in the presented context?' referencing events or fads that were only topical like 25 years ago, obsolete (maybe even bad) science, information or outdated technology are some pretty reasonable ways a show's punchline or core message can fail to hit the mark with audiences the way it used to when it depended on those things still being true to get the point across, speculative fiction that made predictions like betamax is gonna win! def also missed the mark too - sometimes tho the context of the show will make an older topic relevant again or maybe it's got a dated but clever madonna joke that people still get so you might not always have the same opinions as another poster since there's judgement involved but either way accurate depiction of the past and joke that still makes people laugh are enough different things to be judged separately it gets a little trickier with sexism, racism, bigotry and humor because the question is usually 'does that still work as a casual joke in context?' usually that's gonna be no since the context for a lot of shows is just a group of regular, mild-mannered, pleasant folk who make one-liners and face issues we're meant to identify with and root for - in modern times not only is the bigoted joke probably going to fail because the punchline depends on a sketchy idea we don't believe in anymore (women bosses ammirte?) but it'll also be in conflict with these guys being pleasant folk - it could still be an accurate depiction of a 90s conversation but the line def isn't gonna make audiences laugh anymore like it intended there's also shows like Married With Children, which were always very low brow to the point of pitched controversy even in the 80s-90s, where the context was a bunch of working class slobs depicted less sterile and more honest than what other shows were willing to do, these people weren't exactly shown in a favorable light and usually there was a point of establishing that their bad behaviors were actively turning them into deadbeats and losers with Al being kinda loathsome and not someone you want to idolize most of the time, outside of a few odd moments, the show's humor still might not work for a particular viewer but at least most can accept that these are the kind of people who'd have crude beliefs, make crude jokes and also reap what they sow, i guess the difference is also accurately depicting the consequences of being an rear end in a top hat instead just pretending it's normal, casual and alright
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Sep 6, 2017 19:46
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hard counter posted:it mostly comes down to 'does the punchline, lesson, message or whatever still work in the presented context?' referencing events or fads that were only topical like 25 years ago Going back to no one remembering insanely popular (at the time) shows like Ally McBeal... Futurama gets a little meta on its aging poorly in that early episode where the aliens come to Earth after seeing centuries-old tv transmissions and demand to see "McNeal". As an old fart, just curious: did any one of you young 'uns catch that episode on DVD/reruns and wonder what the hell the alien was talking about, or miss the joke? I never even watched Ally McBeal, but it was such a popular show at the time when the Futurama ep aired that I at least knew what it was referencing with the plucky young female lawyer and the co-ed restroom references. Now that's probably lost on many people entirely. It's a show (well, an episode) that's aged poorly based on another show that aged poorly. 
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