|
Ytlaya posted:Yeah, Cio is definitely weird/alien, but I feel like the normal response in such a situation, even if it's unwise, is to cling to what few non-hostile connections you have. I guess it says that Allison as a person recognizes that 'acting nice' is not the most important priority in your life when you're watching girls like you - who were, presumably, pretty nice people - get casually fed to monsters by the busload, and acting submissive and compliant drat near gets your skull harvested by hell cops A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Sep 5, 2017 |
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 19:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 14:23 |
|
|
I wish I could recall the panel, but even earlier on Cio has to amend her claim of having friends to "people who put up with her"
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 19:03
|
|
|
Nearly every character with any power has a more malicious intent towards Allison than Cio. Schwarzwald posted:Cio, who's explicitly confessed to helping Allison because she wants to use her as a shield, is pretty drat ill-intentioned. The fact that she's nice to her doesn't change that. Bell_ posted:I wish I could recall the panel, but even earlier on Cio has to amend her claim of having friends to "people who put up with her" ConanTheLibrarian fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Sep 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 21:28
|
|
|
Honestly nobody we've seen in the comic so far seems to be friends with anybody.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
it's lonely at the top
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 22:43
|
|
|
It occurs to me once again that Royalty is not particularly different from Spiral Power.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 22:52
|
|
|
ConanTheLibrarian posted:If she wanted she could have taken the key right there and never had to worry about anyone coming after her again. uhhhhhhhh Cio's a sympathetic character, to the reader. She has, or has thus far appeared to have, laudable motivations, a charismatic persona, and hasn't meant Allison any harm. She also wasn't offering anything Allison wants, has been less than forthcoming about her background and motives, and Allison has done nothing to force her to stick around - only dictated the terms on which she will do so if she chooses to, as a hanger-on to power who has not earned trust or friendship. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Sep 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 23:33
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:She has, or has thus far appeared to have, laudable motivations, a charismatic persona, and hasn't meant Allison any harm. OTOH: 
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 23:46
|
|
|
yeah but that's pretty much the default reaction to meeting a new person of 100% of the characters in this comic who are not Allison
A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Sep 5, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 23:47
|
|
|
ConanTheLibrarian posted:If she wanted she could have taken the key right there and never had to worry about anyone coming after her again. Well, no. She could have taken the key right there and lived the rest of her life in fear knowing that people would be coming after her until the day she died. She's specifically helping Allison because she wants to benefit from the powers of the key (specifically, being protected from her husband) without any of the cost.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 23:49
|
|
|
What decisions has Alison made that were bad? Coming back to Wheel and loving Mottom's poo poo up were dangerous decisions, yeah, but they were also heroic. Teaming up with devils was risky, but there was no other way she could have rescued her boyfriend. Accepting Incubus' offer was desperate, but she'd probably be dead now if she had rejected it. Alison is in a super lovely situation, but I think she's making pretty solid choices. As for Cio, Alison could have handled her better. Sure. And Cio could have handled Alison better. Alison is the rising King, and Cio's attitude was genuinely that Alison should just do what Cio wanted and let things be.
|
|
#
?
Sep 5, 2017 23:58
|
|
|
Wittgen posted:What decisions has Alison made that were bad?
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 00:18
|
|
|
Cio is not great but she's also been repeatedly depicted as someone who is struggling against her nature (or "nature") to be better than people who knew Yab expect her to be. Allison has, in true to the comic's mythology form, been stupid luck'ing her way into success. Which is fine, but we're winding up to see it fail pretty hard here, and it remains to be seen what lesson (if any) she and Cio will take from the whole mess.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 00:25
|
|
|
she's drunk as hell and has no idea what she's doing
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 00:30
|
|
|
Just because her bad decisions haven't killed her doesn't change the fact she is drunk as hell and has no idea what she is doing. Edit: ^^^^^ drat YOU!
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 00:30
|
|
|
the first chapter of this comic is complete lunacy and extremely hard to follow, which i think was a conscious and very effective choice because it positioned allison, the everygirl, as being completely overwhelmed in this new universe with bizarre laws that nobody can make sense of, even the creatures that live in it. given the only real weapon she has on her side is the key, brute-forcing her way to victory isn't just an understandable choice, it's the only one. yeah she was mean to cio but she'd also just seen a giant bird demon ripping the heads off human corpses. and yeah she jumped pretty fast at getting back into the insanity after she ended up back in the real world, but she's an american millennial with a philosophy degree - a similar demographic to most of us, and i don't know about you but personally i would rather be in throne with everyone trying to kill me and world-shattering power at my disposal than stuck on earth with less people trying to kill me and absolutely no control over my future or my life
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 00:35
|
|
|
World Famous W posted:Just because her bad decisions haven't killed her doesn't change the fact she is drunk as hell and has no idea what she is doing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 00:36
|
|
|
the old ceremony posted:the first chapter of this comic is complete lunacy and extremely hard to follow, which i think was a conscious and very effective choice because it positioned allison, the everygirl, as being completely overwhelmed in this new universe with bizarre laws that nobody can make sense of, even the creatures that live in it. given the only real weapon she has on her side is the key, brute-forcing her way to victory isn't just an understandable choice, it's the only one. yeah she was mean to cio but she'd also just seen a giant bird demon ripping the heads off human corpses. and yeah she jumped pretty fast at getting back into the insanity after she ended up back in the real world, but she's an american millennial with a philosophy degree - a similar demographic to most of us, and i don't know about you but personally i would rather be in throne with everyone trying to kill me and world-shattering power at my disposal than stuck on earth with less people trying to kill me and absolutely no control over my future or my life At least in Throne the giant subterranean man-eating bird horror isn't in charge of your thesis review, am I right
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 00:43
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:At least in Throne the giant subterranean man-eating bird horror isn't in charge of your thesis review, am I right ...or your manager
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 00:44
|
|
|
at least my irl office politics dont involve pits full of mimics
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 01:06
|
|
|
paranoid randroid posted:at least my irl office politics dont involve pits full of mimics oh sure, brag about your job
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 01:13
|
|
|
yyyyeah, we're gonna need to go ahead and move you downstairs to Mimic Storage B
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 01:36
|
|
|
paranoid randroid posted:yyyyeah, we're gonna need to go ahead and move you downstairs to Mimic Storage B It looks exactly like Mimic Storage A, but with a very subtle difference.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 01:39
|
|
|
paragon1 posted:It looks exactly like Mimic Storage A, but with a very subtle difference. And soon thanks to a very new addition, it will have a very unsubtle difference.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 01:49
|
|
|
By the way, I was mainly referring to Allison's earlier behavior before the "whoa most/all demons are man-eaters, including Cio" revelation. Like the way she acts on the ship, for example. Not blindly trusting people is one thing, but she was in a position where she really needed allies. That being said, blindly pushing ahead regardless of the potential consequences is an established part of Allison's personality, so her lack of concern for stuff like acquiring allies isn't out of character.Schwarzwald posted:Cio, who's explicitly confessed to helping Allison because she wants to use her as a shield, is pretty drat ill-intentioned. The fact that she's nice to her doesn't change that. This isn't so much "ill-intentioned" as it is "a mutually beneficial working relationship." Like, Cio would still be helping Allison under this arrangement (and has already saved her life a couple times), even if she had her own interests for doing so. Wittgen posted:What decisions has Alison made that were bad? Coming back to Wheel and loving Mottom's poo poo up were dangerous decisions, yeah, but they were also heroic. Teaming up with devils was risky, but there was no other way she could have rescued her boyfriend. Accepting Incubus' offer was desperate, but she'd probably be dead now if she had rejected it. Alison is in a super lovely situation, but I think she's making pretty solid choices. Eh, things worked out for Allison, but those were definitely bad decisions that normally would have ended poorly. Allison knew little about Mottom aside from the fact that she had no problem with killing people, and it's largely just through luck that her actions didn't lead to Mottom killing her on the spot. You could also argue that rushing to save Zaid instead of trying to learn more about herself/her power and the world first is an unwise decision. And there's stuff like making the pact with the Ebon devil or the thing she did with Incubus. Allison is definitely not a very bright person by real-life standards, but she's also the sort of person who is fit for royalty according to the internal logic of the story. the old ceremony posted:and i don't know about you but personally i would rather be in throne with everyone trying to kill me and world-shattering power at my disposal than stuck on earth with less people trying to kill me and absolutely no control over my future or my life Uhhh, speak for yourself. I'm pretty sure this is the sort of opinion that is born from an ignorance of what "being killed (or other potential horrors)" actual consists of. It's appealing when you're reading a story where the protagonist has some sort of narrative protection, but in real life such a thing isn't actually appealing to most people who otherwise have comfortable lives with their material needs met. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Sep 6, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 09:20
|
|
|
Something like making the deal with Incubus can be both a good idea in the short term and a bad idea in the long term, which it absolutely is, and that's not really contradictory. I don't know if I could characterize Allison as being "not very bright" because it's plainly obvious that she's beset by danger on all sides and taking a very principled and wise stand against striking bargains with demiurges is all well and good right up to the point when it gets you bisected like so many teacups. She's blindly grasping at the quickest route to some sort of agency and it's guaranteed to have horrible consequences but this doesn't seem like the sort of setting where there are kindly old sages waiting to teach the protagonist how to safely use their phenomenal cosmic power, so her choices at this point are to either take a terrible deal that at least ostensibly provides her with the ability to operate on the only level that Throne seems to care about (tremendous violence) or continue to be victimized until some indeterminate point in the future, if she isn't horribly killed in the meantime.Ytlaya posted:This isn't so much "ill-intentioned" as it is "a mutually beneficial working relationship." Like, Cio would still be helping Allison under this arrangement (and has already saved her life a couple times), even if she had her own interests for doing so. "A mutually beneficial working relationship" is the sort of phrase someone uses when they clearly want something out of you but don't want to make it seem like they want something out of you, and even in the best of cases it doesn't necessarily imply a friendship is in the works. Allison may not have gone out of her way to try and make a lot of friends so far but nobody else we've seen has done a great job of that either. I'd say the actual nicest person in the cast is Nyave, but she seems to view Allison as a capital-H Hero instead of just a person at the moment.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 10:52
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:By the way, I was mainly referring to Allison's earlier behavior before the "whoa most/all demons are man-eaters, including Cio" revelation. Like the way she acts on the ship, for example. Not blindly trusting people is one thing, but she was in a position where she really needed allies. That being said, blindly pushing ahead regardless of the potential consequences is an established part of Allison's personality, so her lack of concern for stuff like acquiring allies isn't out of character. When you're in a position of having something people want and are willing to stab you in the back for, you don't make trustworthy allies by being obsequious and polite. That's how you avoid getting stomped on when you have nothing anybody wants, and can be freely discarded if you get in peoples' way. She set clear terms of the relationship and made clear that continuing to try to play her for a fool would end badly, while leaving the option open to continue to roll with her on her terms and reap the benefits. She's mishandled things through inexperience since, but that part wasn't a mistake, and everyone immediately fell into line. Cio had no desire to help Allison do anything she wanted to do (break into Mammon's palace and rescue Zaid, say), and her one-sided offer was to "help" her do whatever Cio wanted, i.e. basically become another gangster in Throne with Cio pulling the strings and reaping the benefits as mastermind. Allison's smarter than you're giving her credit for, she might actually be smarter than you. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Sep 6, 2017 |
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 16:17
|
|
|
Ethics dictate that *faaaaaaaaaaart* Clevin
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 16:23
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Orbitaldropkick/status/905498075266998273 So, KSBD RPG? I'm totally excited.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 20:02
|
|
|
OgreNoah posted:https://twitter.com/Orbitaldropkick/status/905498075266998273 you're like a year behind the curve, friend, he's been putting it together on his patreon since 2016
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 20:06
|
|
|
Is it still a tweaked Dungeon World, or is it changed to something else?
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 20:10
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:Is it still a tweaked Dungeon World, or is it changed to something else? gurps
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 20:11
|
|
|
RiotGearEpsilon posted:you're like a year behind the curve, friend, he's been putting it together on his patreon since 2016 Ah yes, I've only been reading it for 2-3 months.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 20:16
|
|
|
Please don't be GURPS
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 20:33
|
|
|
Obviously the rule system should be a mashup of Exalted and Dogs in the Vinyard.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 21:09
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:Cio had no desire to help Allison do anything she wanted to do (break into Mammon's palace and rescue Zaid, say), and her one-sided offer was to "help" her do whatever Cio wanted, i.e. basically become another gangster in Throne with Cio pulling the strings and reaping the benefits as mastermind. Allison's smarter than you're giving her credit for, she might actually be smarter than you. lol. I mean, what you're saying is gonna end up being sorta true/validated in hindsight (in the sense that her decisions will be retroactively justified as non-fatal and likely successful at accomplishing her long-term goals), but, as someone in that situation without the knowledge that you're the protagonist of a story that almost certainly isn't gonna die, just blindly charging into situations without knowing anything is pretty obviously not a smart thing to do. It's excusable with the Mammon thing, because she actually did get help there and she didn't really have any choice but to go there if she wants to accomplish her goal of freeing Zaid, but she didn't even bother asking about the Mottom stuff first, and the fact things ended up okay at all was complete and utter luck. In fact, she literally only ended up surviving because Cio decided to try and save her; at the very least she could have said beforehand "look, I'm going to Mottom whether you like it or not, do you have any ideas less likely to get me killed?", and even if Cio didn't have any ideas (which is likely, since there really weren't many alternative options) she'd at least know beforehand to hang around in case a quick rescue was needed. The drinking game was another good example; there's no way for her to have known that a sorority girl had higher alcohol tolerance than this random demon creature. The Incubus thing was also ill-advised, given that she took his deal before even exploring her other options. I'm not saying she should blindly trust and make friends with others, but it's entirely possible to attempt to work with others to your own benefit while internally remaining skeptical and doubtful towards the people you're interacting with. I think you're mistakenly interpreting what I'm saying as a criticism of the comic, when it absolutely isn't. The comic owns and Allison's irresponsible behavior makes sense in context*, but that doesn't mean you can't still criticize Allison as a person. I don't want Allison to act differently as a character, because she's more interesting as a flawed character/person, but I can still point out what the flaws in question seem to be. I mean, the author/comic even directly acknowledges that Allison is heavily prone to making terrible decisions. *Mythology aside, there's some truth to the idea that accomplishing something as extreme as becoming a ruler (from a low initial status) sometimes requires the combination of luck and irresponsible behavior. If the only options you have to accomplish something are ones with low odds, there isn't really any other way.
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
Evil Mastermind posted:Is it still a tweaked Dungeon World, or is it changed to something else? it's a significantly more tweaked Dungeon World
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 22:28
|
|
Pavlov posted:Obviously the rule system should be a mashup of Exalted and Dogs in the Vinyard. Abaddon bullied me for liking Exalted and now I'm going to cut his head off with my replica daiklave. But in seriousness he should've just copied Blades in the Dark after that came out. Much better than Dungeon World, which is doo doo. But hey, maybe if he changes enough it'll be good.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 6, 2017 23:02
|
|
|
Incubus and his deals, man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M90tA302X3k
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 01:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 14:23 |
|
|
all i can say about the KSBD RPG is that the Beggar class is extremely my poo poo. humiliate an opponent so hard that it heals the rest of your party? yes please. Ytlaya posted:I think you're mistakenly interpreting what I'm saying as a criticism of the comic, when it absolutely isn't. The comic owns and Allison's irresponsible behavior makes sense in context*, but that doesn't mean you can't still criticize Allison as a person. I don't want Allison to act differently as a character, because she's more interesting as a flawed character/person, but I can still point out what the flaws in question seem to be. I mean, the author/comic even directly acknowledges that Allison is heavily prone to making terrible decisions.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2017 10:06
|
|