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woah poppy Not sure going meta is such a good idea, as that tends to completely change the tone of the series.
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Sep 24, 2017 13:31
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Yeah I love Poppy, and I love the IDEA of the joke, but in practice it was just kind of jarring.
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Sep 24, 2017 13:43
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I think it worked well as a one-off line, but keeping it going in the second paragraph instead of moving forward made it lose some of the punchiness. There's no such thing as a 'funny background event' in a written format, you have to get that effect through short, quick, off-handed descriptions. Edit I think the fundamental difference between comics and novels is that reading the written word is an inherently linear experience. Unless you've taught yourself to do it, there's no way to comfortably 'glance through' a couple boring pages. It feel jarring. By the same token, you can't really pore over the structure and vocabulary choice in each individual sentence (unless you're a Tolkien fan, or stunningly pretentious), so there's not a lot of way to hid background detail. A comic can draw a gun on a mantelpiece, and then have it pulled off later with no direct mention of it. In a book, there would have to be at least one line of description explicitly about the gun's existence, so the reader can end up being much more actively aware that it's important. It's just an inherent part of the medium. Most of Hallia's old gags never would have worked because by acknowledging her existence as a background character you are, inherently, arresting the primary development for a moment. To use a clumsy metaphor, writing is a winding uphill road and comics are a parking lot. You try to drive around one the way you'd drive around the other, and you're going to have a lot of trouble getting from A to B without turning your narrative into a crumpled wreck of twisted metal. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 14:14
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The joke was perhaps a bit overwrought. Now that I'm replaying it in my head, it would be a lot funnier if Boris' reaction was to just skip to asking Poppy why she was there in indignation. One major benefit of working with text is that it's much easier to re-edit if you gently caress something up, but I suppose that then raises questions about authorial integrity once a piece is publicly published. If I decide to edit a joke that fails to land, should I include a note in the description saying so, or would that be taking things too seriously? Should I even make those sorts of changes to begin with? It wouldn't exactly be the first time, I once had to go back and tweak a minor visual gag referencing a person I no longer associate with.
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Sep 24, 2017 15:53
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if it is bad just edit it out no one cares. adding a note is nice if you have anyone maintaining searchable fan archives but no one cares about actual authorial integrity or whatever esp. if it was only in the latest update
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Sep 24, 2017 16:56
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Morbi posted:The joke was perhaps a bit overwrought. There's nothing wrong with making the edit, just don't try to shove the earlier version down the memory hole and pretend it never existed. That's the closest thing to "authorial integrity" you need to worry about imo. For me I'd also say please don't get carried away with footnotes explaining your every creative decision. Save that stuff for people who actually ask.
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Sep 24, 2017 17:25
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PMush Perfect posted:I think it worked well as a one-off line, but keeping it going in the second paragraph instead of moving forward made it lose some of the punchiness. There's no such thing as a 'funny background event' in a written format, you have to get that effect through short, quick, off-handed descriptions. uh there's absolute tons of writing that manages plenty of background detail, you just don't interrupt the flow of the action to dwell on something unless you want to alert the reader that this is narratively significant. for genre fiction, IDK, Morbi maybe take a look at Neuromancer. Never loses the flow of the narrative, never uses the Tolkien blowhard exposition dump format but still paints such an extremely vivid picture that people have made scores of absolutely identical-looking and -feeling movies knocking it off. Everything it does, it does in word choice and brief descriptors right in the flow of the action.
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Sep 24, 2017 19:34
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:uh there's absolute tons of writing that manages plenty of background detail, you just don't interrupt the flow of the action to dwell on something unless you want to alert the reader that this is narratively significant. How about Unsounded? Ashley Cope manages to add world details into the story in a way that makes sense to people both reading and being part of the story, and has a separate wiki/github/whatever that she nerds out on the minute background details at.
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Sep 24, 2017 19:44
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That great author of literature, William Gibson
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Sep 24, 2017 19:47
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are you implying that the shortcomings of Poppy O' Possum the web novel are from trying and failing to be Paradise Lost or just kind of snitting that someone would dare mention a lowly pulp novel author in the webcomics thread
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Sep 24, 2017 19:56
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Yes.
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Sep 24, 2017 20:05
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don't interact
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Sep 24, 2017 20:22
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with webcomics. They're infectious material.
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Sep 24, 2017 20:27
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Interactive webcoms are the worst.
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Sep 24, 2017 21:06
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i wonder what it's like to absolutely crave negative attention on the internet
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Sep 24, 2017 22:18
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An example Lamps might be willing to defend would be Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, as Wolfe is quite literally on record saying that while writing is in theory linear, he finds it a poor showing if he can only make it say two or three things at a time. And we know Lamps holds Wolfe in some degree of esteem (personally, as a huge fan of Wolfe, I still wouldn't rate him as more literarily important than Gibson; Wolfe is a past master of technique but that's not the only value in literature).
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Sep 24, 2017 22:52
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neogeo0823 posted:How about Unsounded? Ashley Cope manages to add world details into the story in a way that makes sense to people both reading and being part of the story, and has a separate wiki/github/whatever that she nerds out on the minute background details at. Unsounded A of all: is a webcomic, and doesn't need to interrupt the flow of the narrative to describe the setting or minor gags to you and 2 of all: does so anyway, constantly and at tremendous length. It's not a bad comic but pacing and verbal economy are not among its strengths. Don't write like Cope does.
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Sep 24, 2017 23:50
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Joe Slowboat posted:An example Lamps might be willing to defend would be Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, as Wolfe is quite literally on record saying that while writing is in theory linear, he finds it a poor showing if he can only make it say two or three things at a time. I found this on the side of the road somewhere and it really spoke to me 
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Sep 25, 2017 00:07
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Unsounded A of all: is a webcomic, and doesn't need to interrupt the flow of the narrative to describe the setting or minor gags to you and 2 of all: does so anyway, constantly and at tremendous length. I've read through most of the comic, but I could never get over the cadence of how people talk. It just drives me nuts.
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Sep 25, 2017 00:48
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The writing is a bit dense and it makes it a little hard to follow the plot sometimes but I don't know what you mean by cadence. I kinda like how the characters have a distinctive voice to them that makes it fairly easy to identify who's voice even without context. The comic seems to rely a little bit too much on external resources though to track what the gently caress some of the stuff going on in universe is. It drop names and concepts into the story without exposition pretty frequently.
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Sep 25, 2017 01:10
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Glagha posted:The writing is a bit dense and it makes it a little hard to follow the plot sometimes but I don't know what you mean by cadence. I kinda like how the characters have a distinctive voice to them that makes it fairly easy to identify who's voice even without context. The comic seems to rely a little bit too much on external resources though to track what the gently caress some of the stuff going on in universe is. It drop names and concepts into the story without exposition pretty frequently. I wasn't quite sure what I meant either, but sometimes it almost feels like they're talking in verse. Duane is particularly bad about it, especially when he has longer monologues.
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Sep 25, 2017 01:17
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Yeah, I can see that but I'm pretty sure that's just Duane's thing. Like he uses extremely purple prose and references theater all the time. He's a giant nerd.
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Sep 25, 2017 01:19
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Pavlov posted:*AHEM* I think you mean The Artist Formerly Known as John Campbell. Hey this is from a bit back but poo poo I didn't know that they changed their name. I hadn't heard anything about them besides the kickstarter stuff so I didn't mean to misgender them/call them by a name they don't use any more. My bad y'all.
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Sep 25, 2017 01:43
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Glagha posted:Yeah, I can see that but I'm pretty sure that's just Duane's thing. Like he uses extremely purple prose and references theater all the time. He's a giant nerd. Duane is a giant nerd, and worse, he's a highly educated giant nerd who adores the Continental tongue, so he speaks like someone who was born with a university English department shoved up his butt. e: he's still not alone in that, though, the dialogue in Unsounded definitely suffers from an overabundance of affect.
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Sep 25, 2017 01:53
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Dr. Hurt posted:Hey this is from a bit back but poo poo I didn't know that they changed their name. I hadn't heard anything about them besides the kickstarter stuff so I didn't mean to misgender them/call them by a name they don't use any more. My bad y'all. I'm not knocking you about pronouns. I'm still not sure what their gender situation is. If they properly transitioned at some point it's hard to tell, because it happened in the middle of some weird emotional break/avant-garde performance art piece. I just remember them saying that John Campbell wasn't their name anymore, without giving a replacement, then later announcing their name to be "Basic Income Please". I could never quite tell if they were serious about that or not.
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Sep 25, 2017 02:05
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nine-gear crow posted:I found this on the side of the road somewhere and it really spoke to me A fair point, I just wanted an excuse to reference that bit of Wolfe; it may go a bit sideways, but it gets at both the linear nature of text in a, ahem, literal sense - and the fact that a lot of writing is concerned with circumventing or complicating that arrangement.
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Sep 25, 2017 02:28
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Kazerad posted:I don't know, I have this fear of becoming disconnected. People don't contact me directly with criticism and complaints, it only occurs on public forums, and I feel kind of obligated to experience it lest I grow complacent among people sending me bland praise. And just watching without acknowledging I'm there or contributing feels rude? I don't think I'm good at meshing with SA culture though, and I feel bad about that. I am not very good at this. This is just not true. I contact you directly with criticism and complaints fairly regularly.
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Sep 25, 2017 03:25
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Cup Runneth Over posted:This is just not true. I contact you directly with criticism and complaints fairly regularly. Kazerad must get so many goatse edits at this point that they all start running together
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Sep 25, 2017 03:47
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Joe Slowboat posted:An example Lamps might be willing to defend would be Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, as Wolfe is quite literally on record saying that while writing is in theory linear, he finds it a poor showing if he can only make it say two or three things at a time. Don't insert words into my mouth.
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Sep 25, 2017 04:24
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Overruled. Continue inserting words into BotL's mouth.
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Sep 25, 2017 04:27
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nine-gear crow posted:I found this on the side of the road somewhere and it really spoke to me lol Poppy O'Possum is now a Japanese light novel basically and thus incredibly bad.
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Sep 25, 2017 04:29
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Tim is kind of selling me on the idea that Shelley deserves better.
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Sep 25, 2017 04:37
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I love webcomics
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Sep 25, 2017 04:40
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Morbi is the Murakami of webcomics and is to be showered with praise and riches
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Sep 25, 2017 04:47
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As long as you don't post anything denigrating the UVF or any anti-Loyalist things in general.
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Sep 25, 2017 04:52
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bravest how do u do it
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Sep 25, 2017 04:53
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:My reindeer do the shitposting, I'm just their scribe
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Sep 25, 2017 05:07
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i probably should be careful, i got told off by a mod in pyf for my flagrant bigotry
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Sep 25, 2017 05:07
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http://scarygoround.com/?date=20170925. This really is dovetailing nicely into the start of The Big Hiatus.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:24
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Tollymain posted:bravest how do u do it My faith in webclevins spurs me on.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:41
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