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Huh. I've had super positive experiences with Track Night, but maybe that's due to the quality of the volunteers in the PNW?
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Sep 14, 2017 01:00
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Blaise posted:Two events ago I got pushed onto the grass by an e46 who insisted 'you have to hit the brakes if you give a point by.' You don't have to brake, but please don't be that dude who points by a Miata and then doesn't even lift... RS4'S are fantastic - I don't find them super noisy, they grip like crazy and pull like glue.
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Sep 14, 2017 02:19
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Phone posted:PCA apparently runs pretty decent events, too. Best track day I ever did was the volvo club.
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Sep 14, 2017 02:34
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TrueChaos posted:You don't have to brake, but please don't be that dude who points by a Miata and then doesn't even lift... When racing, not doing track days, how much does speed differential does there have to be to lift and let someone around you? I kept thinking about this at the Lemons race. Should I drive my line as long as there's room on the track, or should I move off line for the much faster drivers?
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Sep 14, 2017 05:27
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kimbo305 posted:When racing, not doing track days, how much does speed differential does there have to be to lift and let someone around you? I kept thinking about this at the Lemons race. Should I drive my line as long as there's room on the track, or should I move off line for the much faster drivers? If you are being lapped, it is courteous to get out of the way. That being said, unless you're blue flagged, it's the passing driver's responsibility to get around you safely.
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Sep 14, 2017 06:06
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Dave Inc. posted:So I could use some advice on weekend/track tires for my '82 911. I'm comfortable on track but focused on learning over lap times and with an old 911 I'd rather have predictable handling over high limits. I was looking at RE-71s and Ventus RS4s but honestly I feel like I don't need stone-grabbing levels of grip and I don't want to go nuts on road noise. I've had Yokohama S-Drives on the car for a while (so cheap) but they don't give me a lot of confidence (and can't handle trail-braking at all) so I'd like something more but not all the way. Any thoughts? A bunch of lemons teams were running RS4s and said they got 3 races out of them, maybe 4, so 45-60 hours of track time. The z1 star specs were leagues better than my s.drives and z1 star specs are complete poo poo compared to basically any extreme performance tire sold right now, so there's really no going wrong.
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Sep 14, 2017 06:18
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kimbo305 posted:When racing, not doing track days, how much does speed differential does there have to be to lift and let someone around you? I kept thinking about this at the Lemons race. Should I drive my line as long as there's room on the track, or should I move off line for the much faster drivers? If they come up on you fast and are obviously faster I make space or give them a point by, maybe even possibly lift. I don't want to hold up the front runners if at all possible. But if they're on the same lap (roughly) as you and evenly matched I'll make them work for it.
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Sep 14, 2017 11:41
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TrueChaos posted:You don't have to brake, but please don't be that dude who points by a Miata and then doesn't even lift... Oh god, I've taken my spec 944 on R comps to a couple of track days and it's painful how much I had to overtake under braking and corner entry after point-bys. They would momentarily lift coming on to a straight, let me pull up alongside them and get back on the gas like that was enough to let me by. Infuriating. So the RS4s really don't have that much noise? I have a pretty loud exhaust on the car so I'm not sure if I'd even notice--I just don't want to make it too much worse or my fiance may just give up on driving with me. Muffinpox posted:A bunch of lemons teams were running RS4s and said they got 3 races out of them, maybe 4, so 45-60 hours of track time. The z1 star specs were leagues better than my s.drives and z1 star specs are complete poo poo compared to basically any extreme performance tire sold right now, so there's really no going wrong. That's a poo poo ton of track time, thanks.
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Sep 14, 2017 12:21
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Dave Inc. posted:Oh god, I've taken my spec 944 on R comps to a couple of track days and it's painful how much I had to overtake under braking and corner entry after point-bys. They would momentarily lift coming on to a straight, let me pull up alongside them and get back on the gas like that was enough to let me by. Infuriating. Reminds me when I had an instructor that drove a corvette with me in my miata. He kept telling me to floor it on the straights so I could make a pass. That's all she's got, doc. 
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Sep 14, 2017 13:59
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I'm selling a lightly used pair of CG-Locks over in SA Mart: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3833961 Also thinking of selling my helmet, but I dunno how gross that is so maybe not.
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Sep 14, 2017 14:45
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I have no complaints with BMWCCA either. From the outside it appears that a different group does SCCA track days vs SCCA club racing.
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Sep 14, 2017 15:23
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TrueChaos posted:You don't have to brake, but please don't be that dude who points by a Miata and then doesn't even lift... I'm the guy in the miata :P I rarely have to lift to let people by because most everybody passing me is in a vette or better. For other miatas I lift, if I give a point and he can't get by I'll lift off. Usually its 50/50 with BRZs. But yeah, I pointed by the E46 but didn't lift (front straight, he didn't need it). Instead of staying off line for even a moment, he cut right back in front of me and ran me onto the grass. Yikes.
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Sep 14, 2017 15:28
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Blaise posted:But yeah, I pointed by the E46 but didn't lift (front straight, he didn't need it). Instead of staying off line for even a moment, he cut right back in front of me and ran me onto the grass. Yikes. Shiiiiit. If it's a late overtake you just have to go off line, it's not that hard. Why don't people get that? Edit: Oh nevermind, because they're "racing". I used to run with a group that would ask for "people ready to race" to put their hands up at the start, then immediately rant at those who did because nobody races on a track day. Dave Inc. fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Sep 14, 2017 |
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Sep 14, 2017 16:22
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Yeah, it was at the beginning of a straight. I'm in a stock miata... you're gonna get 10 cars on me by T1. There's no reason to cut me off. That made me question running at Track Night. But after the last event, either I'm only signing up for advanced or just not going.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:54
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Blaise posted:Yeah, it was at the beginning of a straight. I'm in a stock miata... you're gonna get 10 cars on me by T1. There's no reason to cut me off. Ah, yes. I only run advanced group at Track Night. That might be it.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:58
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I swear the sketchiest driving I see is in the intermediate group - more confidence than skill.
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Sep 14, 2017 17:20
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TrueChaos posted:I swear the sketchiest driving I see is in the intermediate group - more confidence than skill. Classic Dunning-Kruger.
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Sep 14, 2017 17:26
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TrueChaos posted:I swear the sketchiest driving I see is in the intermediate group - more confidence than skill. Intermediate has the guys that are too fast for novice but not smart and/or fast enough for advanced, plus a lot of intermediate people are trying to prove they're good enough to get bumped to advanced. Most crashes and stupid mistakes at every motorcycle track day I've been to are intermediate. I'd honestly rather be stuck in novice than intermediate most of the time.
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Sep 14, 2017 18:04
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TrueChaos posted:I swear the sketchiest driving I see is in the intermediate group - more confidence than skill. This is true in 2 in NASA as well; you get a lot of people that are pretty close to being ready for open passing and a lot of people who have done 1 track day with a mandatory instructor and think they're hot poo poo. I haven't seen anyone do anything really egregious though (yet).
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Sep 14, 2017 18:30
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I ran DE3 once and I'd say 75% of the people in it weren't ready for open passing.
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Sep 15, 2017 01:44
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FatCow posted:I ran DE3 once and I'd say 75% of the people in it weren't ready for open passing. How'd you get away with only running DE3 once?
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Sep 15, 2017 02:10
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I had a lot of DE experience before I ran with NASA. I wanted to do a DE with them to see how their events flowed before doing comp school and racing. For how expensive VIR is to run the extra time you get from a pure DE program is worth it.
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Sep 15, 2017 02:23
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I haven't had a lot of trouble at DEs with open passing (intermediate with point bys are worse), but they've been club groups and not SCCA/NASA. What kind of tomfoolery are you seeing in an open passing DE? Current group I run with only brings about 20-40 cars to Roebling Road Raceway in Georgia. It's not the most exciting track, but in a single day you get so much track time you sometimes find yourself hanging out in the pits during your session.
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Sep 15, 2017 12:16
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You guys should never try a trackday over here. No tech inspections, no grouping unless the day is specified a beginners day, race teams treating the drat thing like a test session etc. The second day I ever did I had to deal with a bunch of Radicals appearing at warp speed constantly and the last one an entire grid of Caterham Academy cars turn up because the season finale was taking place there the week after We do manage to do overtake by consent (well most TDO's do) so thats one thing! Way way back you could get away with stuff like this though so lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZgc0b2IVfY
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Sep 15, 2017 15:35
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Geez, you guys talking about track days are convincing me to never attend track days. Spec Miata guys are aggressive but around here at least they know what they're doing.
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Sep 15, 2017 15:48
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It really depends on the group and region. The west coast doesn't have any in car instruction, for example.
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Sep 15, 2017 16:07
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I'm... really of two minds with right-seat instructors. Maybe for complete novices to find their way around the track, but at spead, I quite honestly cannot imagine having the mental bandwidth to drive properly at speed and pay attention to someone in the right seat anywhere other than in straight sections. Similarly, I wouldn't be caught dead climbing into the right seat of someone's car-of-unknown-condition. I mean, that's what we're talking about with instructors right, people not just in there to help find setup issues or something, but provide basic guidance?
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Sep 15, 2017 16:22
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Phone posted:It really depends on the group and region. The west coast doesn't have any in car instruction, for example. wrong
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Sep 15, 2017 16:34
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mekilljoydammit posted:I'm... really of two minds with right-seat instructors. Maybe for complete novices to find their way around the track, but at spead, I quite honestly cannot imagine having the mental bandwidth to drive properly at speed and pay attention to someone in the right seat anywhere other than in straight sections. Similarly, I wouldn't be caught dead climbing into the right seat of someone's car-of-unknown-condition. I mean, that's what we're talking about with instructors right, people not just in there to help find setup issues or something, but provide basic guidance? This is how to navigate the track, this is where you can go faster, here are the bad/good habits you have, etc. I talked to one instructor who said a lot of the fault lays with the instructors, who really need to be experienced and willing to intercede if they see the novice pushing beyond their skill level. A lot of instructors aren't forceful enough I guess--I remember seeing one that went viral a while back with a Z06 driver chasing a GT3 where the Z06 driver was trying his best to get himself killed and the instructor was vainly pointing through corners. Oh...figures the video is no longer available, but it made Jalopnik a couple of years ago and you can still see a gif. http://jalopnik.com/worst-trackday-video-ever-corvette-driver-risks-life-t-1712375361 Edit: It lives! Enjoy 6:05 for proper track etiquette. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6rEsYaXc_k Dave Inc. fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 16:55
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mekilljoydammit posted:I'm... really of two minds with right-seat instructors. Maybe for complete novices to find their way around the track, but at spead, I quite honestly cannot imagine having the mental bandwidth to drive properly at speed and pay attention to someone in the right seat anywhere other than in straight sections. Similarly, I wouldn't be caught dead climbing into the right seat of someone's car-of-unknown-condition. I mean, that's what we're talking about with instructors right, people not just in there to help find setup issues or something, but provide basic guidance? I guess, but if you're pushing enough to not be able to process someone else talking you're pushing too hard. Maybe that's not a lesson that car people learn when they are new since mistakes aren't really a big deal... starting with motorcycles you learn real quick when you are pushing too hard and not listening to the bike, you also usually learn the lesson of making sure you're actually stopped before standing up.
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Sep 15, 2017 16:58
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Enh. I'll just stick to trying to catch the Spec Miata guys - trying (I emphasize "trying") to follow Voytek was worth at least a second. 
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Sep 15, 2017 17:06
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Dave Inc. posted:This is how to navigate the track, this is where you can go faster, here are the bad/good habits you have, etc. I talked to one instructor who said a lot of the fault lays with the instructors, who really need to be experienced and willing to intercede if they see the novice pushing beyond their skill level. A lot of instructors aren't forceful enough I guess--I remember seeing one that went viral a while back with a Z06 driver chasing a GT3 where the Z06 driver was trying his best to get himself killed and the instructor was vainly pointing through corners. Wow. Yeah. This is my worst nightmare. Especially with 50mph+ closing speeds on the straights.
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Sep 15, 2017 17:11
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How do you guys deal with wearing rears quicker than fronts (assuming you're not square or you got lazy and forgot to rotate)? It seems like there is a huge difference between well cycled fronts and new rears, it makes my car want to push the front really easily.
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Sep 17, 2017 22:58
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BlackMK4 posted:I guess, but if you're pushing enough to not be able to process someone else talking you're pushing too hard. Maybe that's not a lesson that car people learn when they are new since mistakes aren't really a big deal... starting with motorcycles you learn real quick when you are pushing too hard and not listening to the bike, you also usually learn the lesson of making sure you're actually stopped before standing up. Yeah, after first practice session at Elkhart Lake, no time to think is a Blackhawk Farms infield thing. *edit* Holy poo poo is Road America a blast. Psyched as hell I get to go back tomorrow! mekilljoydammit fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Sep 24, 2017 |
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Sep 23, 2017 15:32
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Holy crap Watkins Glen is loving amazing. What an incredible track to do my first HPDE at. I have so much to work on but the main thing that stuck out all weekend is instructor said I wasn't braking hard enough. I felt like when I did try and brake hard he would always say I overbroke. So I'm left a little confused as to how to proceed with getting braking right. As it can obviously go very wrong.
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Sep 25, 2017 05:31
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KidDynamite posted:Holy crap Watkins Glen is loving amazing. What an incredible track to do my first HPDE at. I have so much to work on but the main thing that stuck out all weekend is instructor said I wasn't braking hard enough. I felt like when I did try and brake hard he would always say I overbroke. So I'm left a little confused as to how to proceed with getting braking right. As it can obviously go very wrong. I found the best way to understand braking on the track is that you're squeezing the juice out of an orange with your foot.
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Sep 25, 2017 14:27
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I'm guessing he wanted you to brake harder, later. The couple of times I ran a shifter kart I had the same problem, trying to force myself to wait until the last second to brake.
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Sep 25, 2017 14:56
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IOwnCalculus posted:I'm guessing he wanted you to brake harder, later. The couple of times I ran a shifter kart I had the same problem, trying to force myself to wait until the last second to brake. Almost definitely this. Was fighting myself on that all weekend too. And worse, it can trick you into turning in too early.
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Sep 25, 2017 15:05
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Muffinpox posted:A bunch of lemons teams were running RS4s and said they got 3 races out of them, maybe 4, so 45-60 hours of track time. The z1 star specs were leagues better than my s.drives and z1 star specs are complete poo poo compared to basically any extreme performance tire sold right now, so there's really no going wrong. I got the RS4s and had them mounted and they feel sooo much better than those S-Drives, and aren't too noisy to boot. I'm breaking them in a little bit now for a trackday at Roebling Road on the 2nd, we'll see how they hold up. I appreciate your input.
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Sep 25, 2017 15:38
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TWSS posted:I found the best way to understand braking on the track is that you're squeezing the juice out of an orange with your foot. I was trying this but I guess I wasn't squeezing the orange until all the pulp would be gone. If that makes sense. IOwnCalculus posted:I'm guessing he wanted you to brake harder, later. The couple of times I ran a shifter kart I had the same problem, trying to force myself to wait until the last second to brake. It could totally be that and also there were times he was saying "brake brake brake oh you overbroke" So I'm thinking those times were actual good applications of the brakes but too early. It was my first weekend actually out on track with passing going on and actually being able to push to my limit and at times the tires limits. So I know all of this will come with seat time. I am incredibly happy that I was able to go out solo for the last sessions and put out consistent laps all within tenths of each other for every lap but one that had major traffic.
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Sep 25, 2017 15:41
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