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jeeves posted:untagged spoilers Dude what the gently caress did you use spoiler tags for and then drop a big loving spoiler right afterwards
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Sep 25, 2017 19:37
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It's not Star Trek till you do an episode with your captain reading the preamble of the constitution to a group of cavemen.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:37
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jeeves posted:Seriously this Discovery pilot felt like Star Trek Beyond. It felt like nothing mattered and I am completely disinterested to watch more. Plus, I barely know any or give a poo poo about any of the characters: the annoying main one who I already dislike, the reboot of Sarak who is just as annoying (especially with his new super powers), the now-dead captain so wow thanks for spending so long introducing her, and the also equally annoying Doug Jones character. No one else even had a name, and apparently a I cared more about that rando Daft Punk guy? She is going to be in every episode in a form of flashbacks it appears. "It felt like nothing mattered and I am completely disinterested to watch more." - nothing mattered in the majority of Trek episodes so this is BS. Thom12255 fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 19:37
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Maybe don't quote the untagged spoilers
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Sep 25, 2017 19:47
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Of course you lovely nerds don't like it. Of course. You'd see your show put in the ground before you accept change.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:48
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Regarde Aduck posted:Of course you lovely nerds don't like it. Of course. lol
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Sep 25, 2017 19:49
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Especially lol since it turns out the show that was a copycat but more tonally similar to the era fans want back actually got better ratings.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:51
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Echo Chamber posted:I think it's fairly known that Seth MacFarlane is a quite polarizing individual, to say the least. It's not a matter of him being white. Yeah I'm making fun of that poster.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:54
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Star Trek is the show that aired a mealy-mouthed pro-Johnson episode about about a not-Vietnam allegory 3 days into the Tet Offensive.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:54
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The second episode is already the 15th most pirated TV episode ever on Pirate Bay, apparently. I hope the math works out for them that they realize the'd make more money just selling the rights to Netflix or with broadcast advertising.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:57
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8one6 posted:Absolutely everything I've heard about the first two episodes sounds like something I'm not interested but I've found myself agreeing with MovieBob more often than not so I guess I'll give the series a shot. I signed up For CBS All Access, the stream would play two commercials and then crash. It did that 5 loving times before I decided 'gently caress this poo poo' and canceled my account. I pay for a Netflix sub and Netflix paid for the first season. Guess who's German now.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:57
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Lord Hydronium posted:Yeah, Emissary is easily the best Trek pilot. And not to make this whole post about defending Enterprise, but I'd make an argument for Broken Bow being up there too. It's an entertaining two hours that lays out the mission statement of the series nicely, with both a sense of discovery and the corresponding idea that humans have no idea what the gently caress they're doing and are improvising their way through things. Unfortunately I think that gets overshadowed with the Temporal Cold War stuff (which never went anywhere, but that's an issue with the rest of the series, not the pilot) and the gratuitous T&A, which is dumb but also a relatively small part of the episode. I think that's fair, since Trek pilots are usually not even close to the best their respective series have to offer. And Enterprise had some drat fine production values. It's only as a whole series that it turns into a mess; individual episodes are mostly fine.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:59
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Gammatron 64 posted:I've kind of been thinking of cancelling my Netflix subscription because the selection is kinda meh these days and Hulu kind of creams them. So I'm not really on board with CBS All Access. Netflix is hemorrhaging licensed content and is actively planning on getting to a 50/50 mix of original/licensed within the next couple of years. Expect it to only get worse.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:59
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Regarde Aduck posted:Of course you lovely nerds don't like it. Of course. Just about every Trek since Voyager has used the motif of "War being fought for tenuous manipulative reasons." The problem isn't change, the problem is lack of change.
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Sep 25, 2017 19:59
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I get the impression every show producer since Voyager has just been dying to make a socially-relevant Trek, but literally the only thing they ever think of is "Trek does the morally gray post-9/11 world." They keep making the same "fresh take" on that motif over and over seemingly oblivious that the show/movie right before it already did it practically the same way.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:07
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The best post 9/11 Star Trek episode is the one where Earth's power grid goes down and Sisko tries to make his dad submit to a blood test, and that came out in like, loving 1997.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:10
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Regarde Aduck posted:Of course you lovely nerds don't like it. Of course. The show was already in the ground? For 12 years? So yeah we can handle doing it without weird bad decisions vs not doing it at all.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:13
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I get the impression every show producer since Voyager has just been dying to make a socially-relevant Trek, but literally the only thing they ever think of is "Trek does the morally gray post-9/11 world." They keep making the same "fresh take" on that motif over and over seemingly oblivious that the show/movie right before it already did it practically the same way. It's worth pointing out that "A Private Little War" was one of the hot takes TOS did on the Vietnam War, and that episode aired 3 days in to what historians consider the major turning point in public perception against the war. And the episode itself was this ham-handed "intervention is bad but the other guys are doing it so we have to do it too or else we'll upset the balance of power or else something something domino theory."
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Sep 25, 2017 20:19
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jeeves posted:This pilot made me really appreciate DS9's pilot more, which I recently rewatched due to Greatest Gen hopefully starting it soon. Also everyone outside of Terry Farrell pretty much has their character nailed from the get-go. Kids don't remember how bad pilots used to be before the era of prestige-TV.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:25
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:Also everyone outside of Terry Farrell pretty much has their character nailed from the get-go. Ehh, Bashir is very different in the early episodes too. And Rom sounds, like, British the first time he shows up?
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Sep 25, 2017 20:27
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Al Borland Corp. posted:The best post 9/11 Star Trek episode is the one where Earth's power grid goes down and Sisko tries to make his dad submit to a blood test, and that came out in like, loving 1997. Yeah, I think the show could be redeemed if it goes that route, but the preview at the end of episode 2 didn't give me much hope for that. Those first two episodes glorified war and preemptive strikes in a way I'd expect from like, 24, not Star Trek. It's 2017, we don't need more stories along the lines of we're under attack, it's us vs. them, their nature drives them to be violent and evil and we can expect no mercy from them, we can't afford to play nice. But maybe that's just the bitter grognard in me, judging the show on what I wanted it to be and not what it is. After having slept on it, I can probably say that for what it is, Discovery is probably going to be perfectly serviceable. I liked Saru, and the whole "my species was bred to do one thing... sense the coming of death" wasn't groan-worthy at all in context like I thought it was going to be. I want to learn more about him and his species.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:29
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I actually disagree about "A Private Little War". What Kirk did in that case may or may not have been the Right Thing To Do, but I admire the fact that he saw enough nuance in the situation that he followed the spirit of the Prime Directive if not the letter of the law. Too often in TNG, they were so rigid in following the letter of the law that they violated its spirit . A good example of that is "Homeward". Though at the same time, I agree that the arguments in favor of giving Tyree's people flintlocks were nearly identical to the arguments in favor of intervening in Vietnam.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:31
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thexerox123 posted:Ehh, Bashir is very different in the early episodes too. And Rom sounds, like, British the first time he shows up? I'm watching DS9 in sequence for the first time and for the first time in general since the 90s and Rom keeps cracking me up because they can't decide what to do with him at all like I'm in the 4th season and he's gone from almost-fratricidal dumbass to engineering genius to family councilor and back, for a show with such good character development poor ol Rom really got left out
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Sep 25, 2017 20:33
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thexerox123 posted:Ehh, Bashir is very different in the early episodes too. And Rom sounds, like, British the first time he shows up? Well, his brother was wearing his nose at the time. I just watched Emissary the other day and Quarks loving nose is so distracting if you've already watched the series two or three times
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Sep 25, 2017 20:36
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Post 9/11 morally grey shows are fine and I like them. But there's plenty of shows to choose from that are like that, and Star Trek shouldn't be one of them. At that point, it kind of stops being Star Trek and becomes one of the million other sci-fi universes out there. Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Netflix is hemorrhaging licensed content and is actively planning on getting to a 50/50 mix of original/licensed within the next couple of years. Expect it to only get worse. It's pretty strange and surprising. Netflix was practically synonymous with streaming TV. I'm a cord cutter but the selection of stuff seems a lot worse and more limited than it was a couple years ago. Maybe it's so they can sell DVDs \ Blu Rays still. I usually prefer streaming content but at least the shows \ movies I have on physical media aren't going away. Not unless my house sets on fire or gets sucked up by a tornado something.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:39
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Pakled posted:Yeah, I think the show could be redeemed if it goes that route, but the preview at the end of episode 2 didn't give me much hope for that. Those first two episodes glorified war and preemptive strikes in a way I'd expect from like, 24, not Star Trek. It's 2017, we don't need more stories along the lines of we're under attack, it's us vs. them, their nature drives them to be violent and evil and we can expect no mercy from them, we can't afford to play nice. Also the Klingon re-design makes me think of 300's "design" of the menacing easterners, which is not good in any way.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:40
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Pakled posted:Yeah, I think the show could be redeemed if it goes that route, but the preview at the end of episode 2 didn't give me much hope for that. Those first two episodes glorified war and preemptive strikes in a way I'd expect from like, 24, not Star Trek. It's 2017, we don't need more stories along the lines of we're under attack, it's us vs. them, their nature drives them to be violent and evil and we can expect no mercy from them, we can't afford to play nice. Congratulations for proving you barely paid attention to anything in the episode. The character that did anything to promote a preemptive strike was condemned by literally everyone and ruined her life. It was never shown she was right to suggest it. War was shown to suck and was said by one of the main characters that it is horrible and you shouldn't want it. The main character has PTSD from war experiences and is haunted by what happened at the battle and losing her mentor. The Starfleet Admiral chastised Michael for thinking Klingons only care about battle and he wanted to try diplomacy. She was put into prison for defying Federation principles which she admits to and regrets. This wasn't hidden or anything, you just have to watch the drat show and pay attention to what people say.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:42
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I actually disagree about "A Private Little War". What Kirk did in that case may or may not have been the Right Thing To Do, but I admire the fact that he saw enough nuance in the situation that he followed the spirit of the Prime Directive if not the letter of the law. Too often in TNG, they were so rigid in following the letter of the law that they violated its spirit . A good example of that is "Homeward". A Private Little War sold itself as "this is probably not the right thing to do, but what other options do we have?" And it pretty well reflected the Johnson administation's view of containment and domino theory. And the episode was written in 1967 when people were still generally buying Westmoreland's BS about how "The enemy’s hopes are bankrupt." But it aired 3 days into the Tet Offensive, which was the major turning point for US public opinion about the war. Not because it was a major loss (it essentially decimated the Viet Cong), but because it flew in the face of the BS that Westmoreland was saying, which torpedoed the credibility of the US Military establishment to talk credibly about the war.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:46
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Air date isn't terribly relevant given that the episode was written months prior and shooting would have been completed weeks earlier. Even if the TOS producers had set out to do a pro-Vietnam story (my recollection is that was not the intended message) and even if they really wanted to not air the episode after Tet, there is absolutely no way they could have recalled it - they were on thin enough ice as-is with NBC without saying "oh by the way we don't think this episode is really relevant any more, can we just trash $190,000 and air a rerun instead?" Heads would have rolled. Also I bet you could reinterpret that episode so that the Klingons are the Americans 
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Sep 25, 2017 20:47
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Private Little War definitely isn't uncritically Vietnam War cheerleading. Kirk likens his actions to Satan destroying Eden ffs. Thom12255 posted:Congratulations for proving you barely paid attention to anything in the episode. The character that did anything to promote a preemptive strike was condemned by literally everyone and ruined her life. It was never shown she was right to suggest it. War was shown to suck and was said by one of the main characters that it is horrible and you shouldn't want it. The main character has PTSD from war experiences and is haunted by what happened at the battle and losing her mentor. The Starfleet Admiral chastised Michael for thinking Klingons only care about battle and he wanted to try diplomacy. She was put into prison for defying Federation principles which she admits to and regrets. Diplomacy would also have been irrelevant though. T'Kuvma had already decided to attack, that was the whole purpose of the exercise and he certainly could not have been negotiated down from it. The pilot comes from a pretty lovely place where the protagonist's actions betray her duty and morals, but being more dutiful and moral wouldn't have helped anyhow -- it wouldn't have landed her in pound-me-in-the-rear end prison but there would still be a war where a bunch of people get killed. This is probably why so many people are thrown by it, typically when Star Trek characters do morally reprehensible things it's against a backdrop of their knowing that the things are wrong but would serve the greater good (Private Little War, In The Pale Moonlight) or are deceiving themselves that their actions were virtuous before this deception is climactically shattered (YOU DON'T DESERVE TO WEAR THAT UNIFORM). The pilot presents a situation where the moral standpoint of the characters is irrelevant because no course of action they could have taken would have helped. Even retreating would have just been kicking the can. This attitude is certainly adventurous one to take in writing a Star Trek show but I'd be lying if I said I found it interesting.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:53
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Gammatron 64 posted:
It isn't strange and surprising, you have the perfect example why that is with Discovery. Networks are threatened by Netflix. They are less of a platform to show their content than they are a direct competitor. So, when deals are renegotiated, they are pulling content off Netflix to platforms they feel they can control better and doesn't threaten their own existence.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:54
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Thom12255 posted:Congratulations for proving you barely paid attention to anything in the episode. The character that did anything to promote a preemptive strike was condemned by literally everyone and ruined her life. It was never shown she was right to suggest it. War was shown to suck and was said by one of the main characters that it is horrible and you shouldn't want it. The main character has PTSD from war experiences and is haunted by what happened at the battle and losing her mentor. The Starfleet Admiral chastised Michael for thinking Klingons only care about battle and he wanted to try diplomacy. She was put into prison for defying Federation principles which she admits to and regrets. We'll all of that was in the episode they didn't air so you can't really blame people for not basing their impressions on it. And the people sentencing her to prison were depicted as a faceless shadowy bad guys. And everybody knows she'll very shortly be given a command, she's the main character. She's going to end up in the right.
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Sep 25, 2017 20:57
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Gammatron 64 posted:It's pretty strange and surprising. Netflix was practically synonymous with streaming TV. I'm a cord cutter but the selection of stuff seems a lot worse and more limited than it was a couple years ago. Maybe it's so they can sell DVDs \ Blu Rays still. I usually prefer streaming content but at least the shows \ movies I have on physical media aren't going away. Not unless my house sets on fire or gets sucked up by a tornado something. It isn't really surprising at all. When Netflix was the only game in Streaming-Town, that was one thing. But these days, everyone and their mother has their own streaming service. That means that Netflix has to outbid those other companies to get access to all that content. And if it was just Amazon and Hulu, that'd be one thing, but now the content providers are getting into the streaming business too! How is Netflix supposed to get access to CBS shows in the USA when those shows are all locked up on CBS All-Access? Disney is getting into the streaming biz too, so now Netflix can forget everything on ABC, all the Marvel and Star Wars content, as well as the actual Disney stuff once the current batch of contracts run out. I'm sure Netflix would love to have tens of thousands of shows and movies on like they did in the old days, but frankly, they can't. The older stuff is getting more expensive or becoming completely unavailable as the content producers become their rivals. And from an economic standpoint, keeping too much old stuff doesn't even make sense anymore. Sure, it might be great to load up Dredd and re-watch it, but the fact that Netflix had it once isn't what drove most subscribers to lay down their $8, $10, or $12 a month. And when Netflix lost Dredd, that was inconvenient to a small minority, but it wasn't enough to get anyone to drop their Netflix sub. No, what drives subscribers now is the fact that there's high quality stuff on Netflix that they can't get anywhere else (barring  , but most people don't know how/aren't willing to do that.) As such, especially with the Marvel stuff almost certainly going to switch to the Disney service in the next couple of years, it behooves them to really focus on stuff they control, such as House of Cards and Stranger Things, than on old TV shows or movies that can get pulled out from under them when the next contract comes up for renegotiation.
jng2058 fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 25, 2017 21:01
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Al Borland Corp. posted:We'll all of that was in the episode they didn't air so you can't really blame people for not basing their impressions on it. And the people sentencing her to prison were depicted as a faceless shadowy bad guys. And everybody knows she'll very shortly be given a command, she's the main character. She's going to end up in the right. I can't wait to see how she goes from life in prison to "sure, we'll give you another First Officer role" next episode.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:04
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Thom12255 posted:Congratulations for proving you barely paid attention to anything in the episode. The character that did anything to promote a preemptive strike was condemned by literally everyone and ruined her life. It was never shown she was right to suggest it. War was shown to suck and was said by one of the main characters that it is horrible and you shouldn't want it. The main character has PTSD from war experiences and is haunted by what happened at the battle and losing her mentor. The Starfleet Admiral chastised Michael for thinking Klingons only care about battle and he wanted to try diplomacy. She was put into prison for defying Federation principles which she admits to and regrets. And yet Michael was vindicated in everything she said about the Klingons, she was absolutely shown to be right. The Klingons really were only interested in war and couldn't be trusted. The smug peaceloving admiral got his ship destroyed because he naively thought he could negotiate with those savages. The message I got isn't "war is good," it's "war is necessary, and we can't afford to be soft in the face of it," which is distasteful to me because it's so behind-the-times and not really relevant to what's going on in the world today. And the preview didn't give me much hope that would change in future episodes.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:08
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Pakled posted:And yet Michael was vindicated in everything she said about the Klingons, she was absolutely shown to be right. The Klingons really were only interested in war and couldn't be trusted. The smug peaceloving admiral got his ship destroyed because he naively thought he could negotiate with those savages. The message I got isn't "war is good," it's "war is necessary, and we can't afford to be soft in the face of it," which is distasteful to me because it's so behind-the-times and not really relevant to what's going on in the world today. And the preview didn't give me much hope that would change in future episodes. Michael believed they could avoid a war by firing first, that an aggressive stance would keep the Klingons at bay. If the war is necessary, and it's impossible to stop the war, she was wrong.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:10
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It's hosed up that streaming services have to "out bid" each other. Imagine having to choose between buying games on steam or buying them on green man or GOG or what ever. I so so wish we could get away from networks and exclusive poo poo and just have stuff on multiple competing platforms.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:11
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Al Borland Corp. posted:We'll all of that was in the episode they didn't air so you can't really blame people for not basing their impressions on it. And the people sentencing her to prison were depicted as a faceless shadowy bad guys. And everybody knows she'll very shortly be given a command, she's the main character. She's going to end up in the right. I'm sure she'll be redeemed by the end - she already feels guilty about everything. This has happened with Tom Paris and Ensign Ro previously. The journey to redemption is one of the plots of the show this season so I don't think you can have a proper impression of her character until all is said and done.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:21
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Pakled posted:And yet Michael was vindicated in everything she said about the Klingons, she was absolutely shown to be right. The Klingons really were only interested in war and couldn't be trusted. The smug peaceloving admiral got his ship destroyed because he naively thought he could negotiate with those savages. The message I got isn't "war is good," it's "war is necessary, and we can't afford to be soft in the face of it," which is distasteful to me because it's so behind-the-times and not really relevant to what's going on in the world today. And the preview didn't give me much hope that would change in future episodes. I don't have an issue with a show investigating how you keep peaceful, tolerant values while faced with zealots who believe those values will destroy everything they know. They might make a mess of it but we can't say that until the end, not after an 85 minute pilot.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:23
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Right now I think the only bad thing about the series is that it isn't on netflix for everyone with no ads.
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Sep 25, 2017 21:24
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