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Yeah, I'm waiting for when CBS All Access inevitably fails, they'll look at Discovery and axe it because really, it's always been just a giant commercial for their streaming site anyway. Best case scenario here is they somehow give the rights to Netflix and they produce it, because CBS don't want that poo poo, not when they have hot property like Young Sheldon.
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Sep 26, 2017 17:11
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Atreiden posted:It has been made abundantly clear through the flashbacks that Michael hates the Klingons for killing her parents and wiping out the research outpost she lived on in an unprovoked attack. Attacks that happen so often that the vulcan learning program ask about number of survivors from the latest klingon attack. We also see her arrive 7 years prior on the shenzhou as a human trying to act Vulcan. Through the 7 years, it's clear that the captain made her more human again and was not just her superior, but a mother-figure. A klingon then kills her right in front of Michael, who in an emotional response, that makes perfect sense taking in the all the prior information into account, kills the klingon. How does Michael know she's dead?
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Sep 26, 2017 17:14
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Hay guys, I thought it was pretty okay and I am looking forward to the next episodes. No time to read the thread, so I assume y'all liked it too. Laterz!
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Sep 26, 2017 17:22
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I'm on the side that would have prefered the show to reference TOS a little bit more, visually, but i gotta say. What they are doing would look MUCH better if they just turned on the loving lights. Is Starfleet being cheap on the light bill or something? I have to squint to make out the details inside the Shenzhou. And to clarify: I was fine with the visuals of JJTrek. Frionnel fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Sep 26, 2017 |
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Sep 26, 2017 17:25
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:How does Michael know she's dead? Lol are you really trying to be that pedantic?
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Sep 26, 2017 17:33
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Well, compared to the first 90 minutes of every other Trek, Discovery was Oscar worthy. High hopes going forward.
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Sep 26, 2017 17:39
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One side effect of the modernized look of Discovery is that now, if someone wants to make a show after DS9/VOY in this decade, it has to be even more futuristic to compensate and create visual differences. The problem with that is the more futuristic ww get, the more the tech will look completely alien and magical, and it just stops working as a believable future. As someone ITT has said, making it a prequel is just trying to have the cake and eat it too. If this show was set in the 25th century nobody would be compaining about the visuals, because the way Trek always dealt with real life advancements in technology was move the timeline forward to compensate. Making it a prequel was just a dumbass idea and this show would be much better off without it. Frionnel fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Sep 26, 2017 |
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Sep 26, 2017 17:50
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I actually think it would be possible to keep the general aesthetic of TOS while making it look "modern" (like people said Rogue One kinda did this) but also I don't think it matters even a little bit
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Sep 26, 2017 17:53
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The more I think about it the more I like the idea/execution behind Burnham's last mistake. She did a lot of things wrong and it was kind of ambiguous, but the scene where she shot T'kuvuma was pretty clear and well set up. First, Burnham herself says a decapitation strike will gently caress them over in the long term, so they go in to capture T'kuvma. They clearly establish what the good outcome is and what the very bad outcome is. Then Burnham's mentor is killed before her eyes. We know enough about her character to get a sense of what an emotional blow that is to her. Understandably overwhelmed in the heat of the moment, she then does the very bad thing she said not to. The reason she did this bad thing makes sense, and the reason it's bad makes sense. Her culpability and the consequences of her other mistakes aren't laid out so clearly, which is where a lot of the ambiguity that bothered me comes from.
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Sep 26, 2017 17:55
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Frionnel posted:One side effect of the modernized look of Discovery is that now, if someone wants to make a show after DS9/VOY in this decade, it has to be even more futuristic to compensate and create visual differences. The problem with that is the more futuristic will get, the more the tech will look completely alien and magical, and it just stops working as a believable future. This poo poo again. Of course it looks modernised. The enterprise of the original series looked like poo poo because it was made in the 60's. That's the only reason. That trekkies will somehow head canon this to mean that's actually what space ships of the 23rd century would look like is everything wrong with star trek fans. The only reason the tech advancement is an issue to you people is because you have brain problems. You are stupid. You can't handle the abstract thought needed to understand that what the ships look like in Discovery is what the ships of TOS would actually like. Essentially the tech upgrade should be done in your imagination which isn't limited by the material and budget available in the 60's. But that's too much for you isn't it? So instead you piss and moan about things looking different and the LEDs being "wrong". You're assholes and you don't deserve this new series.
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Sep 26, 2017 17:57
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Regarde Aduck posted:This poo poo again. lol you're more angry about this than anybody is about "canon" Show is ugly so far all on it's own, sorry bud
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Sep 26, 2017 18:07
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Regarde Aduck posted:This poo poo again. You forgot to call them pedophiles again.
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Sep 26, 2017 18:11
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I agree that there's nothing wrong with making everything look like it wasn't made in the 60s. That said I do like when people deliberately and rigidly stick to nonsensically primitive future-tech in remakes/sequels just because it looks cool. Alien Isolation does an amazing job of this. 60s Star Trek does not, however, look cool.
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Sep 26, 2017 18:11
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Tighclops posted:lol you're more angry about this than anybody is about "canon"
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Sep 26, 2017 18:30
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Atreiden posted:Lol are you really trying to be that pedantic? Yeah. Burnham already survived severe radiation overdose and doing a very brief eva without a space suit in the past....3 hours? She's just a human, like the Captain. So she maybe saw the Captain being stabbed (after all she had no view of the Captain, T'Kuvma was between them and had his back to Burnham). How does she know the extent of the injury? If the point is the scene meant to be shot and edited better but wasn't (so it'd be clear that the Captain was dead AND that Burnham knew it), then the scene would only be terrible from the perspective that it involved a vulcan raised 7-year starfleet officer being an incredible dumbass mere minutes after being told off by her mentor about how not to be a dumbass because she'd already been a dumbass an hour earlier. But the scene was as it was- how does Burnham know the state of the Captain? Pee Pee Doo Doo this show is Zach Snyder level bad.
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Sep 26, 2017 18:34
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Well, compared to the first 90 minutes of every other Trek, Discovery was Oscar worthy. High hopes going forward. Deep Space 9 was better.
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Sep 26, 2017 18:35
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Gorn Myson posted:Thank god every other piece of the Star Trek franchise is beautiful to look at in comparison to this. Hey man I hate beige with a passion but TNG stuff was at least easier on the eye compared to this Hopefully it'll look better if they turn the lights on? gently caress I dunno all I know is right now the starfleet stuff looks like cheap poo poo from the sci fi channel like Dark Matter and the Klingon stuff looks like the kind of weird growth you'd try to scrape off the bottom of your foot
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Sep 26, 2017 18:36
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I'm just burnt out on prequels. I was fine with the visual design of JJ Trek (especially the costumes) outside of main brewery, the stories, not so much. Visual design doesn't really bother me here either, at least not for the federation stuff. I don't really find the Klingon stuff compelling from a practical perspective as I feel the makeup and costumes are negatively impacting the performances. I also don't really like their ship designs, mostly because I couldn't figure out any sense of scale, shape, or design direction beyond "more greebles." On a whole though, everything is too busy from a design standpoint. It's over designed and the cinematography doesn't dwell on anything long enough to leave an impression. Update the design, but let me appreciate and get familiar with the work so I can get invested in the universe.
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Sep 26, 2017 18:41
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Well, compared to the first 90 minutes of every other Trek, Discovery was Oscar worthy. High hopes going forward. Hey, The Emissary is a really good pilot. The Vulcan Hello (lol) has higher production values but as a pilot doesn't work as well IMO.
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Sep 26, 2017 18:46
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Arglebargle III posted:Hey, The Emissary is a really good pilot. The Vulcan Hello (lol) has higher production values but as a pilot doesn't work as well IMO. I think the first half is a lot better than part 2. I also think it would have been more interesting if they had (I don't know if I need to spoiler this?) kept the first ship and just had Jason Isaacs take over, so we could have Lt. Daft Punk and there wouldn't be some weird convoluted reason that Science Officer Yellowbelly comes back
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Sep 26, 2017 18:52
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I don't think they need a convoluted reason, can't he just get transferred to Discovery because his old ship got totally hosed up?
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Sep 26, 2017 18:53
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Encounter at Farpoint would have been a much better episode if Riker punched Picard in the face in his ready room and then started screaming at Tasha to fire torpedoes at the Jellyfish.
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Sep 26, 2017 18:54
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:Deep Space 9 was better. Remember the opening to DS9 when jake and Sisko are walking through a huge endless baseball field? "It's been a challenge being a single father to you, my son, Jake Sisko, my son of 13 years" "Yes father, as we both remember life has been tough for the two of us as a family unit ever since mom was killed at Wolf 359" "Agreed, my son. I'm still haunted by that event and I'm still have beef with Captain Picard over this, if I ever met him again I'd make sure he knows." "Thats understandable dad that you would have those feelings, since Captain Picard was a borg at the time and used his starfleet knowledge to wipe out our fleet" "I sure do have a lot of unresolved emotions over the loss of my wife, your mother." "So dad, you were saying we're moving to a space station now? You said it was called Deep Space 9? Sounds like a good set up for some adventure but also a challenging place to raise a son, like me, your son." "Yes son, I know you remember since we've been discussing this for the last few months, but maybe someone is eavesdropping on our conversation so I feel we should add a lot of exposition to this very natural sounding conversation we are having." "You're right number 1, I mean dad, you're my number 1 dad. Let's go over the specifics again just in case anyone new is listening in." "Look son, we're not lost, you just needed to trust your father, me, Commander Benjamin Sisko from New Orleans on earth." *Camera zooms out to show that the duo was actually walking the bases and have returned to home plate safe and sound* Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Sep 26, 2017 |
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Sep 26, 2017 19:01
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marktheando posted:I don't think they need a convoluted reason, can't he just get transferred to Discovery because his old ship got totally hosed up? edit: I'm a dumbass, I see what you were saying now
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Sep 26, 2017 19:02
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:Yeah. Burnham already survived severe radiation overdose and doing a very brief eva without a space suit in the past....3 hours? She's just a human, like the Captain. The pacing and framing of the scene is terrible. I agree with other posters that you can discern what the motivation is supposed to be, but it doesn't work because the scene really isn't allowed to breathe. What really bothered me while watching it the first time was that she ran away from the captain, instead of going for the neck pinch or Vulcan Karate or whatever. It actually seemed uncharacteristically logical to search for an effective weapon before interfering.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:05
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Frionnel posted:I'm on the side that would have prefered the show to reference TOS a little bit more, visually, but i gotta say. What they are doing would look MUCH better if they just turned on the loving lights. Well, isn't the Shenzhou just an on-ramp into the show? I mean, they DID light Saru and Michael and the captain, because they were important to the plot. The rest of those fuckers are dead. Why light them up and get you attached to them? They have a whole, real bridge crew they want you to love, probably not mourning over daft-punk-face, right? Am I on the right timeline? I know the JJTrek is alternate universe, but if THAT is the new visual look of TOS, then isn't this movie supposed to have similar visuals to that time period, if we have both the movie franchise and this series going? Am I taking crazy pills? It feels very similar and consistent... Flatscan posted:To be fair, Kirk's idea of diplomacy is either shoot it, punch it or shag it. EXACTLY. Like, if we're meant to buy this timeline, Kirk is right now either on Earth in that shithole bar from the JJ movies, or he's in the Academy, loving the poo poo out of Spock's Kobayashi-Maru (sp?) test and a green bitch, right? Crazy-rear end rebel behavior. I get that people wanted a show far into the future. Is it because you want more professor-type captains like Picard and Janeway? Michael smells a lot more like Kirk, which in a way, really makes it appropriate for the time period. This isn't the polished TNG universe, this is a loving hot mess of poo poo that's bearing down on a young Federation. I think the problem is, just like the Star Wars mythos, that we've seen the outcomes of all of this. We've seen a half-human, half-Klingon Worf build a bridge between Klingon and human culture. But all that is hundreds of years into the future. IDK caps on caps on caps posted:Like I said, it did get stuck between Burnham being a protagonist and her being basically terrible. Her realization could be the start of really good television, for example imagine she's in prison and repeats that stuff like "I am bad cause I got my Captain killed" and everyone is like "No you see that's not the point". And then she gets on Discovery and everybody hates her so bad, except the Captain, who explicitly gets her on board because he thinks she is some sort of Pseudo Vulcan murder machine who does what it takes. That sounds like where this is going, and if so, I am really excited to see some high-quality character development. Really, my hopes rest on the bridge crew more than just Michael. If they can pull off an ensemble cast even close to what TNG had, or what they've done in the reboot movies, I will be overjoyed. The intro to these Klingons and Michael is not some weak-rear end hero's journey beginning. They kill off the Klingon messiah. Now wtf are they gonna do? Michael wrecks EVERYTHING, just like you said. There's real dramatic potential here, and I'm excited to see it play out.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:05
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Also, there are a fair number of real life women named Michael, it's not that strange at all.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:07
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Lord Krangdar posted:I don't really get the extreme focus on adherence to canon/continuity by so many fans of this franchise. If it helps you enjoy the series, or it helps the writers write it, then its all good. If not, throw it out the drat airlock. Why keep it around just to get in the way? Lmao are you kidding? Comic book fans bitch non-stop about costume changes. And I think they should, lots of the movie re-designs are stupid for the sake of being different. Apocalypse looked awful in the x-men movie. I'm not saying it should strictly adhere to canon/continuity though. I'm saying it should use the same major things. Like Klingons. Leave Klingons alone. If you want something that doesn't look like a Klingon; GIVE IT A NEW NAME! There's supposed to be lots of aliens out there, you don't have to keep re-doing the same faction 10 times. Its getting ridiculous. Why are they so un-creative they can't just come up with a new name for their entirely new species? If you're going to call them Klingons then there's an expectation they somehow fit into the Klingons we already know. That's my point. The canon isn't important but the actual characters and elements of the show are totally important. You can ret-con things but you can't completely re-design something just to re-design it. Make something new.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:14
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Calling it now Discovery blowing up in the preview of the season is mirror universe Discovery.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:15
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Flatscan posted:To be fair, Kirk's idea of diplomacy is either shoot it, punch it or shag it. no
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Sep 26, 2017 19:15
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well why not posted:"I wish this 2017 TV show looked like some corny 1960's poo poo", I earnestly posted from my touchscreen 4k, wireless internet tablet, as I boarded a supersonic jet. "It'd just make more sense". Jeeze goons love just making GBS threads on other goons for no reason don't they. Nobody actually said this dumbfuck. Deliberately misinterpreting others so you can dunk on them is so loving stupid. Do you think you're winning karma points or something? Shout at the void, well why not, and the void shouts back.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:16
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Sorry Star Trek fans, maybe you just haven't heard of this concept called "character development'. It's kind of new. It's something that happens on my prestige-TV shows that you're too stupid to watch.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:20
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:Sorry Star Trek fans, maybe you just haven't heard of this concept called "character development'. It's kind of new. It's something that happens on my prestige-TV shows that you're too stupid to watch.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:29
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precision posted:i just think it'd be funny if someone tried to say in all seriousness that this pilot was somehow in any way worse than like 99% of the entire first 2 seasons of TNG
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Sep 26, 2017 19:32
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Rewatched the pilot(s) and I can't believe that this one didn't get me before now. - I've lost the captain's vital signs. - Bring us back. - I can't bring her back without vitals.Bit of a summary since I'm too lazy to get the verbatim quote, but that is the gist of one of the dumbest 'I can't transport them' gimmicks I've seen in all of Trek. I mean, the one in the opening was dumb "They can't find us so we'll be trapped here for decades, but they can somehow find this symbol I drew in the sand with my footsteps even though that would be effectively invisible from even a few thousand feet up, let alone from orbit with a goddamn storm between us." but this one is just... ugh. Not to get all Dr. Manhattan here, but a dead body is almost indistinguishable from a live one. The idea that their sensors are so powerful that they can detect the captain's life signs (pulse, I'm guessing?) but so weak that they can no longer locate them them moment her heart stops is just lovely writing. Stab her transponder, have her lose her tracking beacon, anything is better than 'oops, she's dead, we can't find her now'.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:33
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precision posted:I think the first half is a lot better than part 2. I also think it would have been more interesting if they had (I don't know if I need to spoiler this?) kept the first ship and just had Jason Isaacs take over, so we could have Lt. Daft Punk and there wouldn't be some weird convoluted reason that Science Officer Yellowbelly comes back Are you really calling the only guy who had the balls to stand up to Burnham's mutiny a coward?
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Sep 26, 2017 19:35
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TNG started 30 years ago, it's not unreasonable to expect better than "Farpoint was weak too!"
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Sep 26, 2017 19:35
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Yeah I'm gonna check that bit out again on my rewatch tonight or tomorrow night since it rubbed me the wrong way as well. Traditionally the transporter locks onto people by the signal of their communicators, I think, which is obviously irrespective of life and death.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:35
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Caros posted:I mean, the one in the opening was dumb "They can't find us so we'll be trapped here for decades, but they can somehow find this symbol I drew in the sand with my footsteps even though that would be effectively invisible from even a few thousand feet up, let alone from orbit with a goddamn storm between us." that was actually really cool sorry you value tactical realism more than fun in fact that whole bit, including the way it was shot, was just about THE most "classic Trek" thing in the entire episode. it was very reminiscent of the TOS films.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:37
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skasion posted:Yeah I'm gonna check that bit out again on my rewatch tonight or tomorrow night since it rubbed me the wrong way as well. Traditionally the transporter locks onto people by the signal of their communicators, I think, which is obviously irrespective of life and death. I would be surprised if there isn't some plot reason for her getting left behind. She's probably still alive. Or maybe they'll stick her decapitated head on a spike. Even I know that's how transporters work. Fairly sure it's been a plot point about a hundred times across all of Star Trek.
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Sep 26, 2017 19:44
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