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Oct 2, 2017 22:18
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Having watched the first episode after what was basically the prologue, I think I'll refer to it as Star Trek Dark now. I like it quite a lot more now, even though it feels tonally totally different from all the other Star Trek shows. Good on them for trying something different. Edit: Although Michael needs an urgent charisma hypospray injection stat.
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Oct 2, 2017 22:26
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I liked this episode, I feel like the show is going to weird places with the whole bio weapon thing.
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Oct 2, 2017 22:28
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In the DS9 premiere 2 part episode there's some shooting but ultimately It turns out to be a misunderstanding and everybody goes home. In episode 3 they grant a controversial Asylum request, and the guy turns out to be bad and the first officer with questionable loyalties is tested but comes down on the side of the good guys. Also they meet a wacky tailor. In Discovery they start a war and commit war crimes in episode 2
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Oct 2, 2017 22:31
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I dunno, I've been enjoying the show so far. We're only 3 eps in. Every Star Trek before (except perhaps the original) has been garbage 3 eps in. Yes, Lieutenant Science Guy comes off as an arrogant knob, but do you think he's gonna stay that way? I don't. Some things are obviously gonna change as the series goes on since it's fully episodic. We're had the same formula for several ST series now, I'm on board for them trying something different. I love Jason Isaacs as a shady captain. Predictions based on what we saw in this third episode: 1. I thought for sure they were working on a Genesis weapon (which would also explain why it needed to be this timeline), but then was surprised when it ended up being teleportation. Odd since starfleet already has short-range teleportation. That could explain the distorted bodies since we've seen transporters do that, but wouldn't explain what I'm assuming is a mutated one (the creature). Might that be a mutated Klingon? 2. Long term prediction: The captain wasn't lying when he said that Discovery was making a horrible weapon to win the war. I do think the weapon will be far worse in scope than described, and Michael will end up having to mutiny, again, this time to preserve Federation ideals. Not a big fan of the Klingon redesign, and I really don't like their armor but whatever. The original lead Klingon zealot spoke way too slow and chunky so I'm happy he bit it. My only other nitpick was, I thought the Vulcan neck pinch was something only Vulcans can do due to physiology, but Michael somehow can do it (she's fully human I'm assuming? If she's not I must've missed it) I do agree that so far there's been no reason at all this needs to be a prequel. I bet the weapon will end up being a reason for it. (also, on that edit where in the science lab it showed two crewmembers fade to show the passage of time, for a moment I was like "invisibility!")
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Oct 2, 2017 22:36
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Is it really that inconceivable that there is a Star Trek show that takes place during a war which is ultimately about growing past those mistakes that lead up to the war? I get the people who are legit unsure about the show actually reaching a good moral conclusion due to a long history of marketing deceptions and/or lack of trust in writers. But if that is what the show ends up doing, I don't think it's that bad of a new take on Star Trek.
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Oct 2, 2017 22:39
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Tarquinn posted:Edit: Although Michael needs an urgent charisma hypospray injection stat. I doubt the human pretending to be Vulcan is gonna get any more fun in the foreseeable future. Maybe she'll get a Pon farr episode like Spock. That would certainly be something. The episode was fun, but there are some serious writing issues. Like, there is just no breathing-room for any of the character development: Science officer talks about how cool his boyfriend is. Boyfriend dies. Jeez, give me a minute to care for these people. NarkyBark posted:(also, on that edit where in the science lab it showed two crewmembers fade to show the passage of time, for a moment I was like "invisibility!") I thought the exact same thing. They were walking out of the secret science lab, after all.  Ventana posted:Is it really that inconceivable that there is a Star Trek show that takes place during a war which is ultimately about growing past those mistakes that lead up to the war? Half of Enterprise was about war. Voyager had a captain who loved waging war against random civilisations. I just personally find random fire fights in Star Trek really boring. Give me stuff like the Cardassian war criminal in DS9, and I'll be happy. And More fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Oct 2, 2017 |
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Oct 2, 2017 22:43
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Genesis and biomimetic gel and metagenic weapons come to mind as bio war stuff the federation would be working on but not complete around this time.
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Oct 2, 2017 23:03
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Ventana posted:Is it really that inconceivable that there is a Star Trek show that takes place during a war which is ultimately about growing past those mistakes that lead up to the war? I have no problems with the tone and look, and even the overarching plot they might be going for. My problem lies solely with the heavy handed writers lacking any nuance to telling the story and instead trying to write kitsch-y dialogue and characters that are woefully naive or bordering on villainy in their cause. One reason that DS9 was great is that each character had certain moral lines they wouldn't cross, and for the most part shared a moral code. Worf wouldn't let Garak bomb the founders, Kira disapproved of Dax going on a blood debt assassination mission, etc. Here the characters are all playing in shades of black so much that when we get Michael taking down the Jason Issacs for doing something dastardly, her moral surperiority argument is going to fall flat because they whole season the writers have been writing her as 'doing what she thinks is right but knows is morally wrong and feeling guilty about it'. They're really not building her character in a way that the audience can sympathize with her. Her whole 'I just want to get sent back to prison' argument was crap because either a) you bought it and believe her in which the events of the episode shouldn't have been enough to change her mind and her joining the crew should have been a slower build, or b) you didn't buy it because it's ridiculous to think a character that was as strong willed and action oriented as she was in the first episode would suddenly turn her back on a situation she was a part of in favor of working in a prison mining camp.
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Oct 2, 2017 23:09
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Ventana posted:Is it really that inconceivable that there is a Star Trek show that takes place during a war which is ultimately about growing past those mistakes that lead up to the war? Mistakes like what? I'm pretty sure the war would have happened if they hadn't beamed over to try and capture the Klingon leader. I'm also not at all convinced firing first would have prevented the war, since someone mentioned the Shenzhou was outgunned by the Klingon ship. And "being friendly and open and saying 'we come in peace'" can't be a mistake they learned from since variations on that greeting are incredibly prevalent in TOS and TNG.
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Oct 2, 2017 23:21
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And More posted:Half of Enterprise was about war. Voyager had a captain who loved waging war against random civilisations. I just personally find random fire fights in Star Trek really boring. Give me stuff like the Cardassian war criminal in DS9, and I'll be happy. Enterprise and Voyager had dogshit writing and are the reason why Trek went off the air
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Oct 2, 2017 23:21
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Ventana posted:Is it really that inconceivable that there is a Star Trek show that takes place during a war which is ultimately about growing past those mistakes that lead up to the war? I just wish there was a character that I could root for, you know?
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Oct 2, 2017 23:22
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I'll also say, episode 3 was better, so if this trend continues maybe I'll really be excited for this show. In fairness I don't think it was until episode 4 or 5 of The Expanse when my tone shifted from "ugh wow enough already about the terrible space-future where friendship is a defect and everyone hates each other" to "oh okay cool i want to know what happens next" so maybe Discovery will hook me too.
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Oct 2, 2017 23:26
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NarkyBark posted:I dunno, I've been enjoying the show so far. We're only 3 eps in. Every Star Trek before (except perhaps the original) has been garbage 3 eps in. Those early episodes of all three shows were largely still representative of the shows they'd turn into, even if they were a bit (or in TNG's case, really really) rough in terms of plots and characters. Picard leaning forward into a closeup, wide eye'd grin on his face, going 'let's see what's out there' declared a tone for TNG that remained true throughout the show, even if the plots themselves would take another 3 years to get reliably watchable and the characters being far from 'done' at that stage. Encounter at Farpoint may of been bad TNG, but it was still recognisably TNG and a lot of it lasted through. I dunno, I think the world could use a show like that right now, not a show that cribs things from Doom of all things.
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Oct 2, 2017 23:38
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Finally, a Star Trek series with a captain I can relate to!
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Oct 3, 2017 00:03
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My soul for a mirror universe episode.
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Oct 3, 2017 00:14
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why'd they blow up the other ship if they already trapped the monster? seems like a waste of a perfectly good ship. Maybe destroying evidence?
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Oct 3, 2017 00:18
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This latest episode kept bringing a very specific feeling to me, and that was that I was watching an Alien movie, or some other kind of horror show. The Discovery itself feels opressive, sinister and with untold numbers of horrific experiments going on, just because Captain ImABadGuy only disclosed the Space travel mushrooms doesn't mean tons of nastier poo poo isn't going (Saru said Discovery was equipped to allow for a lot of science to go on) like say that monster kitty, or how mushroom travel accidents spiral people into gory chunks. The rest of the cast is meh, quirky roomate has potential and is the only one acting like a Starfleeter (besides Saru), optimistic, hopeful and being more disturbed and feeling pity for a mutineer rather than murderous hostility like most others seem to feel. Engineer guy was a huge rear end even before his friend died and I get the feeling he is a dick to everyone, not just Micheal, I guess something might happen with him but a lot of work is needed to make him someone to care about. Then there is Security Chief "I betray and do evil stuff in every Role I have" except she acts nasty and petty from the start in this show, mainly waiting for her to get turned into a space zombie/double agent/god/whatever else antagonistic. The show has my interest, but only because I happen to like horror mystery in space and I just came out of watching both seasons of The Expanse and am a general fan of Aliens franchise Definitely needs some more likable characters though, right now I am hoping show ends with Quirky Roomate realizing just what a den of nastiness the Discovery is, Michael and her rig the ship and whatever nasty experiments or zombie monster turbo ebola were unleashed to explode, Micheal is forced to stay onboard for redemption suicide thing, report and closing at Starfleet Command about how brave and heroic Micheal was and whatnot, The End.
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Oct 3, 2017 00:19
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The Golden Gael posted:So then it's par for the Trek course Show is alright so far. Its like a much higher budget Expanse. Its nothing amazing, its not making me feel like its must-see-TV, but its decently engaging TV sci-fi that seems to be pushing Star Trek in a different direction and I'm on board with that.
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Oct 3, 2017 00:28
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Koboje posted:Then there is Security Chief "I betray and do evil stuff in every Role I have" except she acts nasty and petty from the start in this show, mainly waiting for her to get turned into a space zombie/double agent/god/whatever else antagonistic. I'm just hoping she has better-defined motivations this time around than in BSG.
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Oct 3, 2017 00:31
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dogmother1776 posted:why'd they blow up the other ship if they already trapped the monster? seems like a waste of a perfectly good ship. Maybe destroying evidence? Or to prevent its capture. They were on the edge of Klingon space.
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Oct 3, 2017 00:56
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I'm pretty sure Star Trek has never had teleportation mushrooms before.
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Oct 3, 2017 01:00
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Arglebargle III posted:I'm pretty sure Star Trek has never had teleportation mushrooms before. No just lots and lots of time traveling secret agents from the future
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Oct 3, 2017 01:02
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Mormon Star Wars posted:I think they are just using it as a model for the underlying rules of reality. If they can do a thing with the fungus, they can also do it to the underlying particles of reality and replicate whatever effect is happening for real. If the fungus can make you see Romulus (???) if you do x to it, then doing x to the fundamental particles of reality will actually put you there.
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Oct 3, 2017 01:02
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And More posted:Half of Enterprise was about war. Voyager had a captain who loved waging war against random civilisations. I just personally find random fire fights in Star Trek really boring. Give me stuff like the Cardassian war criminal in DS9, and I'll be happy. I can kinda see that, though I don't think that's going to be a large component of this Trek either. It was a thing only in episode 2 so far, and maaaybe episode 4 based on the preview. I was directing the post towards ones that was 2 above that post, the one that tried to handwave away DS9's fire fight that they had in their premiere. If the show is "literally going to the frontlines, shooting up some klingons" cause it's in a war, then it'd be stupid. But that's not really the direction we got from episode 3. PaybackJack posted:I have no problems with the tone and look, and even the overarching plot they might be going for. My problem lies solely with the heavy handed writers lacking any nuance to telling the story and instead trying to write kitsch-y dialogue and characters that are woefully naive or bordering on villainy in their cause. Bozart posted:I just wish there was a character that I could root for, you know? These are fine too, cause I'm not saying there's no problems with the writing or pacing. Those are things I take issue with as well. I kinda wish we could've gotten to care about Burnam and the Shenzou a bit first before being thrown into a War plot. What I don't agree with are the posts that say something like "war war war war WAR" that imply this is like some Star Trek: Frontlines or something. Cause it's not that or looking to be that. It's looking like space drama on a science ship where the conflict is "Hey maybe the ends don't justify the means". The methods this show will take may be different, but the overall message still looks like Star trek, and if that's where it actually goes then I don't see whats wrong. Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Mistakes like what? Don't be dense. The actions Burnam took are clearly shown to be wrong from episode 2, and episode 3 literally has ominous music play as Burnam agree's to Lorca's plans which pretty much said "The ends justify the means", with Saru right afterwards getting signals of danger to show that some dangerous poo poo literally happened. Do you really think the show is going to end on saying, "Yes Burnam you were totally right about commiting Mutiny and also everything Lorca is doing is totally fine"? Getting hung up on the details isn't really important when that message is clear, and the same applies to any old Trek episode that may fumble when it tries to get their own meanings across. Some details that affect the story telling make a difference (see: older posts talking about the Hologram communicators vs View screens), but there's nothing to be gained from complaining that only 3/4 of Burnam's mistakes were explicitly said aloud when she was clearly shown to be punished for all those mistakes and most likely going to atone/make up for it (as she is trying to do starting from episode 3!).
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Oct 3, 2017 01:04
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Just saw the third episode and will most likely be dropping the show now. After the awful pilot episodes I figured I would still give it a shot because most pilots are bad by necessity. I had to constantly pause the episode as I was watching because it was annoying me to the point of getting a headache. I am not the biggest trek fan, I like it well enough but I won't condemn this for not being just like the other series. I also felt the idea of them trying something new was interesting. But I absolutely can condemn it for having nothing but unlikeable characters aside from seru, who may be set up to be a villain too with that weird audiosting he had as well as acting like an rear end for no reason. I can also condemn it for continuing idiotic choices and events partaken in by the crew. Or the sloppy ultraspeed writing. It also doesn't help that the thing feels so cut off from how the federation operates it wouldn't surprise me if the twist is that once again aliens manipulated this war into happening and are now steering this ship. And why is someone with serious cognitive impairment in Starfleet and why would they get to bunking with a convicted mutineer when they are easily manipulated? I get she was being tested but there are other ways to test people. And who thought a breath test, something we can beat today, was a good security measure for a door, even if it is tied to DNA or something? And why did the mutineer get access to the tool she used to fool the scanner anyway? Did they ever pick up the pilot that was flung from the shuttle, or did they get forgotten after the intro?
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Oct 3, 2017 01:07
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Grognan posted:My soul for a mirror universe episode. The Devil has been kind. He gave you an entire mirror universe series.
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Oct 3, 2017 01:14
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[quote="“Ventana”" post="“476996319”"] What I don’t agree with are the posts that say something like “war war war war WAR” that imply this is like some Star Trek: Frontlines or something. [/quote] Seriously. There are some serious things you can criticize this show for, but this isn't one of them. They go (sometimes pretty awkwardly) out of the way to portray this war as something no one likes or is comfortable with, and I'm pretty sure they're setting up a giant "we're better than this" moral of the season. But please for the love of god, stop with the expository dialogue. "As you know, best friend for 12 years, we've been scientist buds for a very long time. Also, MICHAEL BURNHAM THE MUTINEER is behind you."
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Oct 3, 2017 01:22
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I hope this show ends like the last prequel show did, except this time Old Riker shakes his head disapprovingly and says "Computer, delete program."
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Oct 3, 2017 01:44
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Trying to get through this show, but every character is a huge obnoxious rear end in a top hat
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Oct 3, 2017 01:47
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Whoever said this is copying the Expanse is dead on. Everything about the shuttle scene looks like it's from The Expanse, not Star Trek. Even the dialog. They even cast a guest star from The Expanse. Why are they flying this shuttle, this prison transport shuttle, through a known hazard? Why did the pilot walk past the prisoners and leave the ship? God this scene is aggressively stupid. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 02:05
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Ventana posted:Don't be dense. The actions Burnam took are clearly shown to be wrong from episode 2, and episode 3 literally has ominous music play as Burnam agree's to Lorca's plans which pretty much said "The ends justify the means", with Saru right afterwards getting signals of danger to show that some dangerous poo poo literally happened. Do you really think the show is going to end on saying, "Yes Burnam you were totally right about commiting Mutiny and also everything Lorca is doing is totally fine"? You said "mistakes that lead up to the war" which implies that those mistakes caused the war. What mistakes do you think caused the war that TOS/TNG-era Starfleet wouldn't make?
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Oct 3, 2017 02:08
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Ahh, so thats why i like it. And considering this is set before tos, wouldn't wondering which timeline the show is set it be pointless?
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Oct 3, 2017 02:09
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Arglebargle III posted:Whoever said this is copying the Expanse is dead on. Everything about the shuttle scene looks like it's from The Expanse, not Star Trek. Even the dialog. They even cast a guest star from The Expanse. heh well Star Trek has always been aggressively stupid so I don't know why you're complaining 
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Oct 3, 2017 02:09
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And there's the blue power-draining airborne goop too, is this a deliberate homage?
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Oct 3, 2017 02:09
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The other big thing that occurs to me is that Burnham's look this episode reminds me a lot of Naomi, which is unfortunate because the comparison it invites between their characters is really unfavorable to Burnham
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Oct 3, 2017 02:12
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HD DAD posted:Seriously. There are some serious things you can criticize this show for, but this isn't one of them. They go (sometimes pretty awkwardly) out of the way to portray this war as something no one likes or is comfortable with, and I'm pretty sure they're setting up a giant "we're better than this" moral of the season. Guys, 24 didn't glorify torture! They made it look really bad and Jack Bauer made grumpy faces because he didn't like it!
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Oct 3, 2017 02:13
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Ok let's break down this cold open because it's very bad: It places our main character in very stupid danger. Within two minutes she's rescued by the hero ship for the series. Cut to credits. This doesn't establish a premise for the episode except "main character is picked up by a Federation starship." Is she worried about this? Is the ship a threat? There's no dialog or reaction shot to cue us either way. It's not clear whether Michael even knows whether she's being picked up by the Discovery. Points for establishing for the viewers that Burnham did some bad stuff last episode, I guess. The cold open doesn't serve any other point. edit: Oh we're sticking with our plucky cast of The Expanse so I guess it introduced the Andorian-murderer and Adam Jensen and the woman who had a cousin on the Europa. Typing that out I realize it would have been a lot cooler to have an Andorian murderer but I guess generic tough guy from central casting will have to do. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Oct 3, 2017 |
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Oct 3, 2017 02:14
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Also on the Lorca as the hammiest character front- his family ran a fortune cookie business, you see, so he could offer Burnham a fortune cookie. You get it? So she could take her fate in her own hands?? Do you get it? Do you get what they're saying?
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Oct 3, 2017 02:15
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:Guys, 24 didn't glorify torture! They made it look really bad and Jack Bauer made grumpy faces because he didn't like it! Yes, because the characters that are the most likeable and sympathetic are the shady-as-gently caress captain and his right hand thug... oh, wait, no, it's the plucky naive cadet, the cautious science officer and the engineer/mycologist who's railing against militarising his research.
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Oct 3, 2017 02:19
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