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Kainser posted:Yeah, ruins are much more limited in general since the AI tends to be pretty active with settling stuff in this game while the game pukes out stuff at sea. No clue what they were thinking with that stuff. Probably "No one ever goes on the water, how do we convince players it isn't literally lava?" If I had to guess, that's what they were thinking about.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:10
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I think if they jacked up the quality of potential rewards from treasure hunts substantially but kept the chance of failure the same i'd be fine with it
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Oct 11, 2017 23:11
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Temple Guard are great and will mulch anything that gets near them, including dragons, whilst never going on a rampage. The no rampage thing is fantastic against skaven ambushes. They're possibly the single best unit to get for free from a garrison fight. They also seem to autoresolve much better than regular saurus. Whilst Saurus warriors have ok AP damage by virtue of having high base damage, the other side is how Temple Guard roll - they completely shred armoured units but their base damage is still better than 80% of other factions troops. Plus it's really hard to find a faction that doesn't have a decent number of high armour or large units. Really the only enemies they're overcosted for are skaven and orcs / goblins, but even then a unit or two is useful for stomping on stormvermin or black orcs / bigguns. The problems are: a) Only Mazdamundi's personal stack can afford more than a couple of units / they take an age to recruit. Which is fair for a T4 unit. b) Blessed Temple Guard are currently bugged as a unique unit type and don't get Temple Guard leader buffs, so don't bother with them except as emergency hires. c) Blessed Temple Guard don't get unlimited vigour. Looks like just a couple of small stat increases like HP per model. With the penalties for being tired being so high, in a skavenslave slaughtering contest Blessed Saurus are better. d) They tend to be fielded under-supported due to their cost, and take disproportionate casualties because of it. But various poo poo seems to be broken with the lizards right now so this will probably all change with time. For example many of the baseline units seem to have the Blessed skins - colourful, feathers, gold armour - whilst the Blessed units appear to be in muted almost monotone colours with bone armour. Several blessed unit types are never given by missions (and a few only very rarely - though you'll get huge numbers of fire bolas and saurus warriors). Healing is also inconsistent, cold blooded not rezzing models must have been a recent balance change because they were explaining it did exactly that during pre-release streams. Only the revivification crystal seems to do that now. My secondary stacks as Mazda started with two saurus with shields, two with spears and shields, one or two pteradons (plus a skink chief on one if I could afford it - having a hero fly into the enemy arty is huge and much more useful than having an even more expensive ancient stegadon), four of the cheapest skinks and sometimes a solar engine to trip the siege weapon AI. A couple more skinks with ranged attacks if there were lots of full size enemy stacks roaming around, or sometimes losing the shields on the saurus if was relatively quiet garrison duty. Skinks aren't nearly as bad as they're made out to be, simply because they're so numerous, cheap, and have decent morale. With the appropriate commander buffs and economy, I'd up it to six to eight saurus units to crack large cities and just scale the walls, giant vigour penalties be damned. Eventually you can get saurus down to about 175 upkeep a turn with generic old blood lords. Chameleon skinks are another really good unit that doesn't look as good on the stat card as they are in reality, again partly due to the cost. They're great becuase of how their stealth, speed, and poison attacks interact.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:11
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Rygar201 posted:This should mean the land based ones are much better? But instead they are much worse? How do you figure that? I think you didn't quite parse that correctly or something.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:17
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Jeza posted:How do you figure that? I think you didn't quite parse that correctly or something. It looks like someone was saying the Sea Ruins are balanced around need to provide a lifeline to people trying to island hop and not keep a tall home province. The city ones are balanced by making them competitive against just settling the ruin. The issue is that they are most definitely Not balanced against the possible ways just holding that city could affect you
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Oct 11, 2017 23:19
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Rygar201 posted:It looks like someone was saying the Sea Ruins are balanced around need to provide a lifeline to people trying to island hop and not keep a tall home province. The city ones are balanced by making them competitive against just settling the ruin. The issue is that they are most definitely Not balanced against the possible ways just holding that city could affect you I late-game walked Malekith and a full stack into a ruin and explored just on a lark as it was end of turn and I was definitely not settling that piece of crap. I pick the wrong choice and, boom, wounded Malekith for no foreseeable reason (the text definitely didn't imply he'd be wading into combat). Needless to say, I save-scummed that away and haven't bothered to explore a city ruin since. Risk to reward there is really not good enough to make it worth the while, certainly nothing like the sea spaces.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:22
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The best thing you can get is +250 ritual resources. Early on that lets you reverse the AI ritual resource lead for at least 20 turns. I think any of the gold/other items you can get are just consolation prizes and by mid-game you should have no reason to search ruins at all.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:29
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Yukitsu posted:Probably "No one ever goes on the water, how do we convince players it isn't literally lava?" If I had to guess, that's what they were thinking about. I feel like there would have been better ways to do this. Like adding sea raiding as a stance like previous TW games (to be honest I really just want this because my plan for my first Mortal Empires game is "pirate queen Morathi" and it would be a fun fit, conceptually). I don't mind the idea of the sea rewards - it gives yo a reason to keep sailing around even after exploring everywhere, but yeah, as mentioned they really just seem to be straight up better than exploring ruins.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:40
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Treasure hunts should be only available in some ruins instead of every single one, and the reward should be outrageous, like 20k gold. The risks should stay the same
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Oct 11, 2017 23:40
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Nullkigan posted:Chameleon skinks are another really good unit that doesn't look as good on the stat card as they are in reality, again partly due to the cost. They're great becuase of how their stealth, speed, and poison attacks interact. Also, they have 40% resistance to missiles and better combat stats then most archer units and most light cav units. They are really solid which is why I use them in almost all of my armies.
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Oct 12, 2017 00:08
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SickZip posted:On an unrelated note, Steal Technology seems pretty crazy strong. It is, and I'm pretty sure it stacks per hero, so you can get two or three heroes perma-stealing tech for a 50 or 60% boost
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Oct 12, 2017 00:16
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why stop there? i had enough heroes stealing tech to get me to a consistent 300% research rate
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Oct 12, 2017 00:23
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Davincie posted:why stop there? i had enough heroes stealing tech to get me to a consistent 300% research rate Did you ever crash because you went over that? I had a bunch of mages for high elves and I would always crash if I stole too much technology.
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Oct 12, 2017 00:26
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Agent actions also gives you absurd relation boosts with factions that dislike the faction you are stealing from so you can end up with half the world loving you just because you keep stealing tech from lothern or whoever. Clan Pestilens (even with the -relations from finishing rituals) and several Norsca tribes kept wanting to ally me when I played as the Dark Elves because of that.
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Oct 12, 2017 00:28
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Yeah I only just started spamming steal tech as I'm doing the final ritual as Tyrion and it would have been crazy if I was doing this all game. But tbf a lot of HE tech isn't that useful because I don't use Spearmen, Reavers or Eagles and I didn't want to piss off my fellow HE neighbours so meh.
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Oct 12, 2017 00:29
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Nephthys posted:Yeah I only just started spamming steal tech as I'm doing the final ritual as Tyrion and it would have been crazy if I was doing this all game. But tbf a lot of HE tech isn't that useful because I don't use Spearmen, Reavers or Eagles and I didn't want to piss off my fellow HE neighbours so meh. Sail them over to the cult of pleasure to the west. I had like 10 nobles making 60 influence a turn. There is plenty of targets to choose.
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Oct 12, 2017 00:38
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Tenzarin posted:Did you ever crash because you went over that? I had a bunch of mages for high elves and I would always crash if I stole too much technology. yeah actually, after a while it would sometimes crash when i stole technology. like 1 in 5 turns id do it. but by then i had so much researched and they were all high level so i stopped bothering
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Oct 12, 2017 00:49
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Steal Technology is going to be super useful for Dwarves assuming their engineers get it. They have such long research times that getting engineers out ASAP to boost those numbers will be helpful early on. Are they going to update the old races heroes to be similar to how they are set up in WH2?
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Oct 12, 2017 00:59
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Getting the boys from Karaz A Karak together for an end of season boat ride to drink heavily and trash Elf World is going to be lovely.
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Oct 12, 2017 01:11
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 I feel like this is appropriate.
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Oct 12, 2017 01:18
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As Mazdamundi is there any reason NOT to run with full Temple Guard as your melee core? Their upkeep is lower than Saurus with him.
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Oct 12, 2017 02:19
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:As Mazdamundi is there any reason NOT to run with full Temple Guard as your melee core? Their upkeep is lower than Saurus with him. Pretty much no reason to replace sword lizards with them once you can do it. I still keep some spears around to make sure the front line has a little anti large since Mazda can blow up hundreds of enemy line infantry with spells.
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Oct 12, 2017 02:24
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Wow, Dark Elf darkshards kind of suck. They're not half as good as the High Elf archers.
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Oct 12, 2017 02:25
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LLSix posted:Wow, Dark Elf darkshards kind of suck. They're not half as good as the High Elf archers. They are much better against armored enemies and comes with a shielded variant. It's a tradeoff and both are very good units.
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Oct 12, 2017 02:27
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LLSix posted:Wow, Dark Elf darkshards kind of suck. They're not half as good as the High Elf archers.
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Oct 12, 2017 02:33
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I found my Sea Guard/Archer doomstacks really sucked vs. Chaos stacks where Darkshards will shred them. Luckily almost all fights vs. Chaos are in walled settlements.
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Oct 12, 2017 02:52
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You guys just gotta learn how to protect your archers. Half my army is basically just playing linebackers for my archers.
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Oct 12, 2017 02:54
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High elf ranged can still do a lot of work later on, you just have to pick your targets a bit instead of melting half the enemy army before they reach your lines.
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Oct 12, 2017 02:59
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:As Mazdamundi is there any reason NOT to run with full Temple Guard as your melee core? Their upkeep is lower than Saurus with him. No reason whatsoever. People have weird opinions about Temple Guard in general. Like yeah, Saurus are good but Temple Guard are a straight upgrade across the board. The only drawback is price and that's not a concern for Mazdamundi so go wild.
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Oct 12, 2017 03:45
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Blessed Saurus Warriors never get tired and the quest for them seems quite common. Much better than Temple Guard imo. Not sure if this is true in TW2 but in TW1 spear/halberd units also tended to attack more slowly, meaning their damage was lower than it appeared.
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Oct 12, 2017 03:53
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I'm coming around to Lizardmen. I think I started off wrong by relying on Skinks and building a traditional hammer-and-anvil army by getting Cold ones. I got the building that lets you build dinos and basically completely forgetting about skinks/ranged units and just charge in with a wave of Saurus/Dinos with like 1-2 cold ones to take out artillery. Kroxigors are cool as hell too.
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Oct 12, 2017 03:58
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Away all Goats posted:I'm coming around to Lizardmen. I think I started off wrong by relying on Skinks and building a traditional hammer-and-anvil army by getting Cold ones. This. I basically only bring along like 2 skink units to tank shots when charging walls now and that's it. Everything else is Temple Guard/Blessed Sauruses/Dinosaurs/Wizards. Usually a Saurus Lord or Hero to duel enemy characters.
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Oct 12, 2017 04:03
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The best thing about lizardmen is when you charge your carnosaur heroes at wizards and they go down smooth in two bites.
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Oct 12, 2017 04:06
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:As Mazdamundi is there any reason NOT to run with full Temple Guard as your melee core? Their upkeep is lower than Saurus with him. For all my lizardman stacks I used all temple guards after the mid game. They are armored shielded anti large and armor piercing I think. Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 04:06
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Vargs posted:Blessed Saurus Warriors never get tired and the quest for them seems quite common. Much better than Temple Guard imo. Halberds were adjusted in Warhammer 2, and Temple Guard/Blackguards/Phoenix Guard are all very strong units. I spent most of my Mazda campaign using Saurus and Temple Guard side by side and the TG were consistently better against any type of enemy. The big thing with TG is that they aren't a specialist infantry unit like most of the elf elite stuff. You get armor, armor piercing, anti-large, shielded, and tanky in one package. TG won't necessarily beat everything 1v1 but they're never really at a disadvantage against anything. madmac fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 04:06
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HannibalBarca posted:Dinosaurs/Wizards. Why choose? Have wizards on dinosaurs.
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Oct 12, 2017 04:09
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madmac posted:Halberds were adjusted in Warhammer 2, and Temple Guard/Blackguards/Phoenix Guard are all very strong units. Use Swordmasters as your center with High elves, they are better than Phoenix guards at fighting infantry. And they stop arrows! I think I made my Dark elf campaign harder by not using Executioners also! Phoenix guard are still your go too for anti large though.
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Oct 12, 2017 04:10
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Are temple guard the only infantry that use halberds with shields?
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Oct 12, 2017 04:23
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:As Mazdamundi is there any reason NOT to run with full Temple Guard as your melee core? Their upkeep is lower than Saurus with him. I just realized this tonight on my playthrough and promptly remade my Mazdamundi stack into 1x Mazda, 1x, Skink Priest, 8x Temple Guard, 4x Solar Bastiladon, 2x Revivification Bastiladon, 2x Ancient Stegadon. It was equal parts hilarious and amazing. My ancient stegos start shooting across the entire map to provoke their army. Their arty shoots back, so I counter with my skink priest's unlimited range "no accuracy for enemy ranged" aoe spell shutting that down. Their line starts approaching and gets horrifically blinded by dinosaur lasers about halfway across the field. After enough of that they start to break rank and charge straight into my line of temple guards who get continuously revived by the crystal bastiladons. Decisive Victory on what the autoresolve otherwise called an even fight. I just felt so utterly unstoppable. After being frustrated with my midgame, I'm suddenly in love with my campaign all over again. 
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Oct 12, 2017 04:32
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Blinded debuff of the solar bastiladons is nice.
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Oct 12, 2017 04:44
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