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Funso Banjo posted:This show is taking a lot of risks, and while it is not hitting the mark quite now, I'll give it real credit for taking those risks. I hope it comes together eventually. I feel the same way. Star Trek is that old and has explored and revisited so many general concepts that it needed a shakeup. Despite the legitimate issues with the show, I feel that the core concepts are interesting ones that play off the traditional star trek tropes - a role reversal of the 'stuck up half-vulcan' who is actually negatively hampered by their human side. A hero ship that is literally powered by animal cruelty. Flawed captains and leader figures who second guess their actions or do immoral things despite their being alternatives. These all are amazing ideas in a writer's room, but at the moment it feels like there's not enough of setup to really feel the pinch - everyone is a complete rear end in a top hat, main protagonist included and we're not given much reason to care for anyone. The ship itself, Discovery feels more like Michael's stop gap prison and plot device than a character in itself, and I wouldn't be expecting it to stay around if it wasn't the title of the show. But it's certainly generated alot of discussion between my partner and I in a way we wouldn't otherwise talk about a trek series - and I am very keen to see where it goes. It is refreshing to not be spoonfeed a message of the week and instead question the decisions of our protagonists. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of these minor background characters fleshed out and becoming more integrated into the overall story once we've seen Michael's piece through. This show has really hit the ground running in huge plot developments and will run out of plot / become too complicated if they don't slow it down.
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Oct 20, 2017 10:49
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 03:16 |
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What’s the thread policy on spoilers? I have a rather niche rant about Sunday’s episode and would rather not have it be a series of black boxes if I can help it.
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Oct 20, 2017 13:19
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Same as everywhere else in TVIV- once it’s been broadcast in the country of origin it’s fair game.
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Oct 20, 2017 13:29
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marktheando posted:Same as everywhere else in TVIV- once it’s been broadcast in the country of origin it’s fair game. So, never then?
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Oct 20, 2017 14:13
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Cingulate posted:Polarise the polarity of the polaron beam. Polarise that polar bear until it retards into a tardigrade.
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Oct 20, 2017 14:32
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MiddleOne posted:Last episode literally ended with the main characters burning alive the crew of an entire ship. Pfft, Lorca did it first.
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Oct 20, 2017 14:38
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FlamingLiberal posted:That sounds awful 
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Oct 20, 2017 17:43
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Laser whips.
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Oct 20, 2017 18:13
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:What’s the thread policy on spoilers? I have a rather niche rant about Sunday’s episode and would rather not have it be a series of black boxes if I can help it. Like marktheando, spoilers are not needed once the episode comes out. I don't know exactly what time on Sunday it goes up on CBS all access, but once Monday hits, it's fair game.
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Oct 20, 2017 21:13
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The Bloop posted:People loving complained about quantum burrito fields and warp particles and poo poo all the time. We have a loving emoji about it. Mods, change my name to Quantum Burrito Field tia.
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Oct 20, 2017 22:11
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So seeing as how the red headed girl is the Wesley of this series, how long until a time/space traveling being comes and scoops her up? Because however long it takes isn't soon enough.
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Oct 20, 2017 22:42
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AceOfFlames posted:Mods, change my name to Quantum Burrito Field tia. Before you make a wish, the correct phrase is "The Mathematics of Wonton Burrito Meals"
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Oct 20, 2017 23:16
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Cojawfee posted:Before you make a wish, the correct phrase is "The Mathematics of Wonton Burrito Meals" For a certain value of "correct"
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Oct 20, 2017 23:24
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Cojawfee posted:Like marktheando, spoilers are not needed once the episode comes out. I don't know exactly what time on Sunday it goes up on CBS all access, but once Monday hits, it's fair game. Ok cool. So I'm aware that this issue might be a little specific and nitpicky but hear me out. So my husband and I watched this last night we both audibly groaned at the last scene when it was revealed that Lt. Stamets and the doctor are a couple. Like the whole thing felt ham fisted and forced like the writers wrote that stupid scene to beat the audience over the head. There are like a million slightly less obvious ways to reveal a relationship instead of a forced, incredibly fake-seeming scene where they talk about how much they love each other whilst brushing their teeth! Totes random and relatable  In fact we both mentioned previously that Lt. Stamets was clearly coded/written as gay. Like we picked up on it. He's stereotypically catty/bitchy okay. So of loving course the vaguely effeminate and soft spoken doctor is also a gay and since we all know if you have two gay people written into a show they totally have to be in love with each other! Two stereotypically gay men, what a cute couple  I know I should just be glad to have representation but it feels so forced. Like that loving transgender person from ME:A. In the pursuit of that diversity and inclusion checkbox, Bioware wrote something downright offensive. While this pairing doesn't come close to that level, it's still patronizing and borderline offensive to me. Again I realize this might be thin-skinned/making a big deal out of nothing but you know who would have been a better romantic option for Stamets who would have had more impact? Someone you'd never expect of being gay -- like the loving captain. Illicit gay affair between the ship's commander and the chief scientist. But no big macho captain doesn't seem like a gay so he obviously can't be gay, wouldn't want to potentially damage the nerd psyche. E: oh and now we can guarantee that one or both of them will die because hollywood et. all can't resist the "nice same-sex couple you got there, shame if something were to happen to it" trope. Nostalgia4Infinity fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Oct 21, 2017 |
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Oct 21, 2017 01:19
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Ok cool. Neither one of them looked / acted gay to me. 
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Oct 21, 2017 01:27
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Shroom guy seemed obviously gay enough I thought he was supposed to be in a relationship with the friend he lost on the other ship at first
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Oct 21, 2017 01:28
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I have a bigger problem with the fact that brushing your teeth still takes forever in the future.
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Oct 21, 2017 01:30
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Really? Because within 30 seconds of introducing him as a character he might as well have had a big flashing "I AM A GAY" neon sign above his head. In fact we were convinced that his partner who got all twisted up in the third(?) episode was his... partner. I'm not going to make assumptions, but I feel like I'm a little more attuned to these sorts of things? I dunno, like I said it got me riled up cheetah7071 posted:Shroom guy seemed obviously gay enough I thought he was supposed to be in a relationship with the friend he lost on the other ship at first 
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Oct 21, 2017 01:32
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I did roll my eyes at Stamets, pioneering gay man in Star Trek, being a passive-aggressive baby-faced little dude but it's kind of a no-win. If he has a nice relationship with another nice guy it can be read to be saying homosexuals are too nice and lacking in manliness. If he has a relationship with a manly man then people will complain it is playing into stereotypes about homosexual relationships necessarily following straight dynamics. If he's in a relationship with the captain that would be kind of hosed up on a professional level (officers probably should not be having sexual relationships with their superiors!) and would thus imply bad personal judgment on the character's part as well as pushing him kind of into the closet, which definitely isn't something I want to see on Star Trek. Idk I guess it's really a question of where you draw the line between characters being exemplars and being caricatures of a type.
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Oct 21, 2017 01:35
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skasion posted:I did roll my eyes at Stamets, pioneering gay man in Star Trek, being a passive-aggressive baby-faced little dude but it's kind of a no-win. If he has a nice relationship with another nice guy it can be read to be saying homosexuals are too nice and lacking in manliness. If he has a relationship with a manly man then people will complain it is playing into stereotypes about homosexual relationships necessarily following straight dynamics. If he's in a relationship with the captain that would be kind of hosed up on a professional level (officers probably should not be having sexual relationships with their superiors!) and would thus imply bad personal judgment on the character's part as well as pushing him kind of into the closet, which definitely isn't something I want to see on Star Trek. Idk I guess it's really a question of where you draw the line between characters being exemplars and being caricatures of a type. Garak begs to differ, goonsir  Yeah I get that. I guess if I sit and think about I'm more bothered by the reveal than anything else. Like if it were handled differently like a Stamets wakes up in the medbay and cute doctor is visibly relieved and like there's a shot of a him putting his hand over Stamet's and giving a gentle squeeze with a "don't scare me like that" and a peck on the forehead or whatever. Something more subtle than: *domestic scence* Person 1: I am glad that I love smart scientist who is also a man. Person 2: I too love kind doctor who is also a man. director off screen: Now kiss!
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Oct 21, 2017 01:44
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As a gay man, I like that we've got two gay characters (played by out actors) who are effeminate. Frankly, if you're going to piss off a large portion of your audience just by including gay men, I'd rather the characters be sissies. That way you avoid all that bullshit bargaining that goes on, where the arseholes in the audience feel like they've been given a concession because the gay characters aren't "too gay", you know? It's just "masc4masc" in another skin. Plus, I think that section of fandom has a problem with femininity as much as it has a problem with women -- I think space sci-fi could generally do with more girly characters. Women it tends to have a lot of, but they're generally macho, aggressive, traditionally masculinised types, often with androgynous haircuts. I like that Disco has so many powerful but traditionally femme protagonists -- Stammets, Saru, Tilly -- because I think there's more than one way to be strong, yeah? Oh, and if we're talking stereotypical representations of homosexuality, Saru is so so much gayer than anyone else in the cast. And he's not been paired with anyone. Nostalgia4Infinity posted:*domestic scence* They didn't loving kiss. I was pissed off. (Also they totally had a subtle suggestion of their relationship earlier -- it's pretty clear they're a couple when they're bitching at each other in the previous episode. They just keep it locked down Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Oct 21, 2017 |
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Oct 21, 2017 01:48
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FlamingLiberal posted:That sounds awful Turns out Rom was a great Grand Nagus.
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Oct 21, 2017 02:31
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Ok cool. That was another scene for me where I was *expecting* to feel like they were beating us over the head with this - but I didn't end up feeling that at all. I actually found it quite touching and not at all forced. Everyone's gonna react differently, I guess.
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Oct 21, 2017 02:51
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Wheezle posted:That was another scene for me where I was *expecting* to feel like they were beating us over the head with this - but I didn't end up feeling that at all. I actually found it quite touching and not at all forced. Yeah, once I saw the scene coming, I was afraid it was going to go down awkward as hell, since this was pretty much the first romantic scene in the series. I was pleasantly surprised with how low key it was. Well, you know, minus the timefuck mirror. All gay couples have those, right?
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Oct 21, 2017 04:10
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The Bloop posted:For a certain value of "correct" He's technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.
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Oct 21, 2017 04:15
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mycomancy posted:He's technically correct, which is the best kind of correct. 
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Oct 21, 2017 04:24
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:
This is an interesting article, thanks.
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Oct 21, 2017 04:36
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Open Source Idiom posted:As a gay man... You know, I had found the scene to be way too corny and forced, and was annoyed by what I perceived to be seriously missing the mark and beating us over the head as if two gay people was somehow a big deal in 2017. But you really changed my mind. I'm a straight guy, and you know way better than I do what matters, and I totally appreciate your point about them both being effeminate men. I hadn't considered that aspect of it, and wanted to thank you for pointing it out. And as an aside, I'm still really enjoying this show. I had almost no hope for it since the day it was announced, and all of the lead up did nothing to quell my fears, but it's gorgeous, ballsy, and loving cool.
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Oct 21, 2017 04:41
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Neither of them has coded gay behaviours by the script itself, I think. Any coding seems to come from the fact that it's Anthony Rapp and Wilson Cruz doing the acting, and that's... them and their personal mannerisms.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Oct 21, 2017 |
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Oct 21, 2017 08:56
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They don't have chemistry though. They act gay around eachother but they don't seem gay for eachother.
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Oct 21, 2017 12:16
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Shibawanko posted:They don't have chemistry though. They act gay around eachother but they don't seem gay for eachother. They're at war dammit!
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Oct 21, 2017 12:30
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My problem was that the tooth brushing scene had some fantastically clunky dialogue. Like, first draft placeholder text that is meant to be punched up in a later pass. If any of my screenwriting students had come up with that, I’d be breaking out the red pen. Culber’s really awkward line: “Well, one tends to worry when they’re doomed to love a brilliant but reckless maniac who’s willing to risk his life for glory.” is a horrible run on sentence, and it manages to pack about 4 clichés into that.
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Oct 21, 2017 13:01
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:Lol, yeah. Nobody ever complained about reversing the polarons in the time matrix or whatever. But you nipple clamp one water bear to ride a mushroom and the franchise suddenly jumped the shark. No such bullshit in my Star Trek
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Oct 21, 2017 13:04
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As a mycosexual with a water bear fetish, I thought the time sync toothbrush scene was just fine.
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Oct 21, 2017 15:04
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The_Doctor posted:My problem was that the tooth brushing scene had some fantastically clunky dialogue. Like, first draft placeholder text that is meant to be punched up in a later pass. If any of my screenwriting students had come up with that, I’d be breaking out the red pen. If you don't turn into a cliched and burbling wazzock when you're in love, get out
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Oct 21, 2017 15:07
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The_Doctor posted:My problem was that the tooth brushing scene had some fantastically clunky dialogue. Like, first draft placeholder text that is meant to be punched up in a later pass. If any of my screenwriting students had come up with that, I’d be breaking out the red pen. This is just par for the course with this series though, not an indictment of their relationship in particular. Like sure it's clumsily handled, but this show gave us gems like "you can't set a course without a star" in the scene where the actual protagonist is introduced. It was clearly written and rewritten by committee to the point of incoherence.
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Oct 21, 2017 15:09
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The Klingons in this series think Starfleet is all like: "Ah! We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill; we come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, men."
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Oct 21, 2017 15:34
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Trin Tragula posted:If you don't turn into a cliched and burbling wazzock when you're in love, get out Oh, absolutely. I love my boyfriend more than anything, but that’s still a clunky line. I’m surprised they had the restraint not to try and shove a kiss in there too. The other thing that interests me is that they’re wearing starfleet regulation pyjamas, rather than just pyjamas. These are both company men through and through.
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Oct 21, 2017 15:38
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Those pjs looked incredibly uncomfortable too. Who wears form-fitting long sleeved sweaters to bed?
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Oct 21, 2017 16:06
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Space Mormons.
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Oct 21, 2017 16:12
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