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thebigcow posted:Is that actual systemd, or one of the systemd-x projects that aren't really systemd and not necessary for systemd to be systemd and should probably have a different name? systemd-resolverd, so the latter.
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Oct 25, 2017 16:11
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it would be nice if the project dropped the awkward systemd- prefixes off those additional services, yes
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Oct 25, 2017 16:18
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MALE SHOEGAZE posted:customers who care about linux are the worst unironcally agree
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Oct 25, 2017 18:40
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systemd is a winning brand so I can understand wanting to ride its gilded coattails
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Oct 25, 2017 19:16
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i imagine theres a significant fraction of "linux enthusiasts" who specifically gravitate towards things that are unpopular and complain about anything that gets to be too common or well-known the ones that try a new tiling window manager every week and think init scripts are just fine, and who don't want things to be convenient, easy to use, or easy to understand
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Oct 25, 2017 20:46
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Progressive JPEG posted:i imagine theres a significant fraction of "linux enthusiasts" who specifically gravitate towards things that are unpopular and complain about anything that gets to be too common or well-known os hipsters
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Oct 25, 2017 20:47
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the systemd-whatever stuff is great and does what it needs to do its great that the systemd project ships "all of the userspace tools you need to boot and run a basic linux system" so you dont need a whole loving copy of BIND to have a local dNS cache for instance, and dont need to cobble together a dozen different projects to get basic stuff out of hte box: networking, restarting failed services, system logging, time syncing, managing locale ,handling devices (udev), console sessions, etc. and the systemd-whatever tools can all be individually replaced if for some reason you want to
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Oct 25, 2017 21:01
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Shinku ABOOKEN posted:how can it depend on daemons when it exists to manage said daemons? "i must manage the daemons" "no john, you are the daemons" and then john was a cgroup
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Oct 25, 2017 21:40
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Progressive JPEG posted:i imagine theres a significant fraction of "linux enthusiasts" who specifically gravitate towards things that are unpopular and complain about anything that gets to be too common or well-known yeah, the desktop ricing people are some, it’s real. i3 is looked down upon lol. you can find them quick on image boards or reddit but probably better to just imagine. a custom setup can be “cool” to aid a workflow, or even as an end to itself if you want to play around with UI/UX, but a bunch of it is just cargo culting for cred. weird nerd identity politics here too, allowing some dumb poo poo like init systems to take on a broader meaning, like an attack on community. why do people take this personally, like how many of the grieved does this actually effect?
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Oct 25, 2017 22:43
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Sapozhnik posted:it would be nice if the project dropped the awkward systemd- prefixes off those additional services, yes alias bitch
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Oct 25, 2017 22:50
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OldAlias posted:yeah, the desktop ricing people are some, it’s real. i3 is looked down upon lol. you can find them quick on image boards or reddit but probably better to just imagine. a custom setup can be “cool” to aid a workflow, or even as an end to itself if you want to play around with UI/UX, but a bunch of it is just cargo culting for cred. weird nerd identity politics here too, allowing some dumb poo poo like init systems to take on a broader meaning, like an attack on community. why do people take this personally, like how many of the grieved does this actually effect? https://fun.irq.dk/funroll-loops.org/
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Oct 26, 2017 00:17
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is systemd killing networkmanager because oh GOD who decided wifi should be coupled to a system notification tray area applet and if your window system doesn't have one then tough luck pal hope you brought some cat 5
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Oct 26, 2017 00:55
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Cocoa Crispies posted:is systemd killing networkmanager because oh GOD who decided wifi should be coupled to a system notification tray area applet and if your window system doesn't have one then tough luck pal hope you brought some cat 5 no, cause nmcli is a thing now just use that
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Oct 26, 2017 01:06
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Condiv posted:no, cause nmcli is a thing now I still get flashbacks to the days when nmcli couldn’t do anything but print a list of connections, and also the networkmanager people refused to provide any offline documentation in their packages because it was all on the website you couldn’t read because your network wasn’t working I haven’t had any networkmanager problems for years, but I will never forgive it and will rejoice when it is finally buried for good
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Oct 26, 2017 01:50
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Soricidus posted:I still get flashbacks to the days when nmcli couldn’t do anything but print a list of connections, and also the networkmanager people refused to provide any offline documentation in their packages because it was all on the website you couldn’t read because your network wasn’t working i ain't gonna defend that tbf
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Oct 26, 2017 02:08
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The last time I used (desktop) Linux and wifi together was when my NIC's manufacturer refused to update their binary driver for the 2.4 kernel. The tooling at the time? Ouch. VMs from then on, and I really feel like I didn't miss much. Things must actually work these days, given Android can typically join a network?
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Oct 26, 2017 02:55
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after working with embedded Linux for a while I now no longer care what a Linux system uses so long as whatever bizarro system it has is documented actually I lied it has to have vi on it
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Oct 26, 2017 04:04
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hobbesmaster posted:after working with embedded Linux for a while I now no longer care what a Linux system uses so long as whatever bizarro system it has is documented i feel like vi should be part of coreutils.
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Oct 26, 2017 04:47
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Sapozhnik posted:"i must manage the daemons" emptyquotin but not emptyquotin RFC2324 posted:i feel like vi should be part of coreutils. is it not? I thought vi was one of those things that you just expected to exist anywhere outside a "grub failed to load the os, have fun editing" hellscape. also lol if i3 is no longer ricer territory.what am i now, a casual tiling wm user if i no longer wish to deal with awesome breaking everything every single release
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Oct 26, 2017 05:00
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RFC2324 posted:i feel like vi should be part of coreutils. it’s in busy box at least unless you specifically configure it differently. I only ran into it once and it something that an end user was clearly never supposed to get a shell on. so fair play on your security through annoyance I guess
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Oct 26, 2017 05:04
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it’ll be a funny day when I break into an embedded system and it doesn’t have vi but it has pico
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Oct 26, 2017 05:09
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anatoliy pltkrvkay posted:is it not? I thought vi was one of those things that you just expected to exist anywhere outside a "grub failed to load the os, have fun editing" hellscape. it's there on every full install of *nix I've ever touched, but it's not in coreutils. i don't have a linux box handy to do a lookup on, but i did just search through a listing of the coreutils commands and it wasn't listed edit: in both rhel family and arch it comes from the vim-minimal package. RFC2324 fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Oct 26, 2017 |
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Oct 26, 2017 06:48
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vi is required by posix so it’ll be there by default on pretty much any linux that’s intended to be used as a linux. this is the one reason it’s worth learning some of the basic vi commands despite it being 2017 not 1977. all bets are off if the linux is an implementation detail of some kind of embedded thing though
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Oct 26, 2017 10:21
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i''ve been trying to run containers in production this week and docker is such an awful snowflake. i wish systemd-nspawn had taken off
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Oct 26, 2017 11:01
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Soricidus posted:vi is required by posix so it’ll be there by default on pretty much any linux that’s intended to be used as a linux. this is the one reason it’s worth learning some of the basic vi commands despite it being 2017 not 1977. vi is built into busybox which for those of you lucky enough to not be immediately triggered is a single binary minimal Linux user space intended for embedded applications. it’s got a bunch of poo poo built in like a dash (lol) implementation and among other things a vi which when I used it didn’t have features like “undo”.
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Oct 26, 2017 14:09
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Phobeste posted:vi is built into busybox which for those of you lucky enough to not be immediately triggered is a single binary minimal Linux user space intended for embedded applications. it’s got a bunch of poo poo built in like a dash (lol) implementation and among other things a vi which when I used it didn’t have features like “undo”. busybox's vi is trash - lots of basic things don't work (yanking, word skip, undo, etc), it's the single worst thing about the busybox userspace IMO
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Oct 26, 2017 15:04
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Poopernickel posted:busybox's vi is trash - lots of basic things don't work (yanking, word skip, undo, etc), it's the single worst thing about the busybox userspace IMO pretty sure all of those things work on latest busybox?
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Oct 26, 2017 15:56
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my stepdads beer posted:i''ve been trying to run containers in production this week and docker is such an awful snowflake. i wish systemd-nspawn had taken off docker is a good prototyping tool for building the image but running dockerd in any kind of production setting is gonna be a mess, hope u have infinite disk and hope ur containers don't need consistently functioning networking lol about a year ago mesos added a feature allowing you to completely cut out dockerd by just running docker images in the native mesos runtime
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Oct 26, 2017 16:25
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thats why people use a scheduler you dolt
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Oct 26, 2017 16:36
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Sapozhnik posted:pretty sure all of those things work on latest busybox? not if you don’t configure it
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Oct 26, 2017 17:03
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my stepdads beer posted:i''ve been trying to run containers in production this week and docker is such an awful snowflake. i wish systemd-nspawn had taken off same, but also rpm-ostree
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Oct 26, 2017 17:37
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this thread is very good for reminding myself that i have done good in never having gotten into the position of having to janitor a system professionally you guys should strive to get out of it too.
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Oct 26, 2017 17:39
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:this thread is very good for reminding myself that i have done good in never having gotten into the position of having to janitor a system professionally congratulations on getting to make messes that other ppl are forced to clean up
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Oct 26, 2017 17:40
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when i started in industry i resented having to enter tickets for the services/infrastructure people to "do x", and figured all would be better if i could just have done x myself. but i have since realized that this is the sweetest deal in the world.
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Oct 26, 2017 17:42
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Progressive JPEG posted:docker is a good prototyping tool for building the image but running dockerd in any kind of production setting is gonna be a mess, hope u have infinite disk and hope ur containers don't need consistently functioning networking lol yeah, mesos is p nice
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Oct 26, 2017 17:52
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Poopernickel posted:busybox's vi is trash - lots of basic things don't work (yanking, word skip, undo, etc), it's the single worst thing about the busybox userspace IMO my knowledge of vi: i(type some poo poo) esc:wq so this sounds extremely needs suiting to me also if you know more vi than that there might be something wrong with you
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Oct 26, 2017 17:55
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BobHoward posted:my knowledge of vi: 
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Oct 26, 2017 18:08
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vs code doesn't make me type i to start typing text and I can hit the x in the corner to close it doesn't run on a terminal tho
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Oct 26, 2017 18:15
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BobHoward posted:also if you know more vi than that there might be something wrong with you
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Oct 26, 2017 18:15
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Sapozhnik posted:pretty sure all of those things work on latest busybox? Finally busybox lets me yank it
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Oct 26, 2017 19:08
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