Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

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D C: Jun 20, 2004; 1-800-HOTLINEBLING
1-800-HOTLINEBLING
1-800-HOTLINEBLING

CBJamo posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYDZbOutkpA

That came up over in the awesome thread. There are several shots with another helicopter in them. I'm sure they were shooting on a long lens and had good separation, but it made me wonder how that's handled. Does ATC control it, are they just VFR and see and avoid, does the local leo somehow control it? Has there ever been issues with news helos getting in the way of leo or fire helos, well I'm sure it has happened, but any cool stories?

The pilots take altitudes as they show up to the scene and stay pretty rigid at those altitudes, rest is see and avoid. The camera gimbals have really long lenses on them so they can get a tight image and it also makes everything else look somewhat stacked up so the other helicopters look closer.

Incidences have happened over the years but not that common.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a5TSb__rn4

Cant find where I uploaded a test clip where you can really see the zoom but we were on the ground stationary during that whole clip.

D C fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Oct 27, 2017

# ? Oct 27, 2017 21:07

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 11:35

A Handed Missus: Aug 6, 2012

Neat Trick, But No Treat by Lockheed Martin, on Flickr

quote:

The flight may not have been a treat, but it�s no trick. A C-5 aircrew, flying with only three engines, lands at Dobbins AFB, Georgia, on 29 June 1979 after flying from Dover AFB, Delaware. In November 1978, this aircraft (Air Force serial number 70-0450) suffered a low pressure engine turbine failure that destroyed the left outboard engine and damaged the pylon. After landing safely, the engine was removed and the pylon temporarily faired over to reduce drag. The Galaxy was approved for a one-time, three-engine flight to Marietta for permanent repairs. This C-5A, the sixty-fourth Galaxy built, was last assigned to Altus AFB, Oklahoma, and was retired in April 2004 with 16,165 flight hours.

# ? Oct 28, 2017 16:53

blugu64: Jul 17, 2006; Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?

I�m the �ahh, it�ll be fine� guy

# ? Oct 28, 2017 16:59

Kerosene19: May 7, 2007

I saw Aeroflot do something similar with an IL96 back in the 90's out of SEA. They just removed the fan blades on #1 and safety wired the core to the inlet guides to keep it from windmilling. Rumor is that it left with pax on board back to SVO which to be honest wouldn't be that surprising considering how much shady poo poo they did back then until the FAA smacked them down.

# ? Oct 28, 2017 17:12

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Kerosene19 posted:

wouldn't be that surprising considering how much shady poo poo they did back then until the FAA smacked them down.

Telling: Aeroflot is the first airline I've come across who have have to have the accidents and incidents bit on its own wiki page.

e: better still, they can't even fit it all on one dedicated page:

# ? Oct 28, 2017 17:56

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

To be fair that's as likely to be the fault of whatever autist is legally married to that wiki page as it is a reflection of Aeroflot's safety.

# ? Oct 28, 2017 18:02

Ola: Jul 19, 2004

Midjack posted:

To be fair that's as likely to be the fault of whatever autist is legally married to that wiki page as it is a reflection of Aeroflot's safety.

Probably a factor, but ctrl-fing for "drunk" gets hits on all pages. 17 in the 1970s.

# ? Oct 28, 2017 18:05

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

Ola posted:

Probably a factor, but ctrl-fing for "drunk" gets hits on all pages. 17 in the 1970s.

�On 21 September 2001, Ilyushin Il-86 (RA-86074) landed gear-up at Dubai Airport due to pilot error;�

Doesn�t explicitly say drunk. Certainly implies it though.

# ? Oct 28, 2017 20:06

bewbies: Sep 23, 2003; Fun Shoe

http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-city-thunders-plane-nose-crushed-bird-collision/story?id=50784314

a....bird, huh

# ? Oct 28, 2017 20:13

Plastic_Gargoyle: Aug 3, 2007

Ola posted:

Probably a factor, but ctrl-fing for "drunk" gets hits on all pages. 17 in the 1970s.

Try ctrl-fing one of these production lists, it's even worse:

http://oldwings.nl/st/std.htm

The An-2 alone gets 70 results for "intoxicated."

# ? Oct 28, 2017 20:13

Sagebrush: Feb 26, 2012

bewbies posted:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/oklahoma-city-thunders-plane-nose-crushed-bird-collision/story?id=50784314

a....bird, huh

Is that suspicious?

Airplanes are made of extremely thin sheet metal, and a five-pound bird at five hundred miles an hour is a poo poo-ton of energy.

e: oh, I see, the news is going on like this is some astonishing unbelievable incident that couldn't possibly be caused by a bird. gently caress the media

# ? Oct 28, 2017 20:16

spookykid: Apr 28, 2006

That's not sheet metal, that's the fiberglass weather radar radome.

E: I saw a much larger radome far more hosed up by flying through a minor unavoidable hail storm while trying to get to Nepal, it completely hosed up the radome, but the window glass above it was undamaged.

spookykid fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Oct 28, 2017

# ? Oct 28, 2017 20:46

Kerosene19: May 7, 2007

To contribute, back in the early 90�s after the fall of the iron curtain I was a commercial intoplane fueling manager and had regular dealings with Aeroflot shortly after they started scheduled service into the United States. I witnessed things that were shady, janky and some that were just outright loving dangerous.

The first couple years of service they used IL96�s to run a loop of SVO/SFO/SEA/SVO with some TU154�s and IL62�s sprinkled in to some of the more eastern coastal states often stopping in ANC for tech stops. This transitioned to 777�s when FAA had enough and forced them to fly more modern and compliant aircraft if they wanted to land in the USA. In the early days though the Ilyushins and Tupolevs would commonly arrive with all main gear tires showing cords around the whole tire. You could also find patch jobs on the fuselages where they had been hit by flak over Afghanistan when serving as state troop transports.

The guys that were there for the startup flights recounted stories to me of folks that were immigrating to the states bringing livestock with them. Yes, that�s right goats in the aisles. Obviously the dept of fish and feathers and the FDA didn�t allow that.

The Aeroflot station managers were usually on a 3 month rotation for visa reasons, but there was one thing common to them all. Smuggling. If US Customs wasn�t directly observing, the first thing out the cabin door on arrival was a duffel bag with who knows what that went straight into the trunk of the managers ramp vehicle before passengers started to get off. This did not occur when Govt agents were watching.

On the IL96�s going to SVO we would fill using 3 10,000 usg tanker trucks simultaneously, usually one behind the left and right wings and one nosed up in front of the right wing between the #3 and #4 engines. Hearing the engine igniters clicking while refueling was a normal occurrence, to quote the Aeroflot engineer this was �not problem�. Eventually this led to a case where they actually engaged the starter and the #1 engine started with a fuel truck directly behind it. There was much chao and WTF to be had.

The fueling system was unintelligible unless you could read Cyrillic. Also the fuel port poppets that kept fuel in the manifold had a habit of sticking in the up position. We had one incident where the first guy to empty his truck went to disconnect and it stuck. There were 3 other hoses connected to the manifold pumping at 35 psi at a combined rate of a little over 1000 gpm. He took a fuel bath the likes of which had not been seen in years. Trip to the ER for a proper decon and rash treatment. Fuel got behind his eyeballs. SOP after that was for all trucks to stop pumping and close nozzle valves prior to any disconnection.

On one particularly foggy morning, an IL62 made not one but two instrument approaches directly over 1st avenue in Burien, which is just west of SEA. That one made the nightly news.

Of course, they weren�t the only ones doing dumb poo poo. One of my fuelers was absolutely fascinated by the brake cooling fan inlets, he was amused by the fact that the vacuum would hold his gloves to the housing. What was not amusing was that when he reached to grab his glove his hand was drawn in and a solid 3rd of his ring finger was removed with great efficiency before he could withdraw. Yes, there was a read and sign�

# ? Oct 28, 2017 21:27

spookykid: Apr 28, 2006

I... I... Jesus Christ.

# ? Oct 28, 2017 22:02

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

I love everything in that and would love to hear any other Aeroflotical Insanity anecdotes you can share.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 00:16

Flikken: Oct 23, 2009; 10,363 snaps and not a playoff win to show for it

Midjack posted:

To be fair that's as likely to be the fault of whatever autist is legally married to that wiki page as it is a reflection of Aeroflot's safety.

During the Soviet Era did Aeroflot run all Soviet civil aviation? Because that might explain the sheer volume of incidents?

# ? Oct 29, 2017 00:21

marumaru: May 20, 2013

Is the 6-engine Il-62 real?

# ? Oct 29, 2017 00:55

vessbot: Jun 17, 2005; I don't like you because you're dangerous

No, you can see the clonestamp artifact around the outermost one.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 01:01

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Inacio posted:

Is the 6-engine Il-62 real?

If it were, there'd be more than just that picture of it. Rare airplane spotters make train fetishists look sane.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 01:02

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

The weight and balance on that thing would be so hosed with another two engines. It already needs a tailwheel to support it during loading.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 01:58

MrChips: Jun 10, 2005; FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

Yeah that's still a real airplane, it was made the day before the quota was due. If you look around on the other side you'll see it still has four engines in total.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 02:48

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

PT6A posted:

The weight and balance on that thing would be so hosed with another two engines. It already needs a tailwheel to support it during loading.

Don't most airplanes need a tail stand during loading and unloading? I see Dash-8 300's with pogo sticks all the time.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 02:52

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

FrozenVent posted:

Don't most airplanes need a tail stand during loading and unloading? I see Dash-8 300's with pogo sticks all the time.

If don't want to pay attention while loading them I guess?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLWxD0gY__A

# ? Oct 29, 2017 03:01

Buttcoin purse: Apr 24, 2014

Flikken posted:

During the Soviet Era did Aeroflot run all Soviet civil aviation? Because that might explain the sheer volume of incidents?

My thoughts exactly. Wikipedia says "By 1967, Aeroflot amassed a fleet equal to that of the largest American carriers combined." So they should have as many accidents as the largest American carriers combined. I suppose if I did some math I might find that they have 10x that number of accidents, but :effort:

# ? Oct 29, 2017 03:16

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Midjack posted:

I love everything in that and would love to hear any other Aeroflotical Insanity anecdotes you can share.

This.

Stores of hood rat operators just amuse me to no end.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 03:21

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

If you like weird stuff, here is the Arado E.381, the littlest fighter (amazingly, only slightly joking.)

I have to repost one of the images; somebody did an interior schematic:

Though I think if we're dealing with rockets, the T-Stoff is oxydizer, not fuel; it's 80% pure peroxide, where the V-stoff is the fuel, a frankly sedate mixture of hydrazine, methanol, and water, using 'Catalyst 431' - a potassium copper cyanide mixture.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 03:24

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

It�s like a human controlled cruise missile :stare:

Russian engineering is so ridiculous.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 03:26

vessbot: Jun 17, 2005; I don't like you because you're dangerous

German

# ? Oct 29, 2017 03:31

FBS: Apr 27, 2015; The real fun of living wisely is that you get to be smug about it.

Nebakenezzer posted:

when the Me 163 just isn't insane enough

e: I must have been 10 or so when I read about how the fuel leaks would dissolve pilots in their seats

# ? Oct 29, 2017 04:13

Plastic_Gargoyle: Aug 3, 2007

Flikken posted:

During the Soviet Era did Aeroflot run all Soviet civil aviation? Because that might explain the sheer volume of incidents?

Yes. There was no truly "civil" aviation in the USSR, it was all state controlled, down to the cropdusters over the collective farms. Even the passenger flying portions of Aeroflot were organized into "squadrons " of a sort. It's all very weird to look at from the outside.

(I still haven't figured out how they internally justified the concept of VIP aircraft, though)

# ? Oct 29, 2017 04:54

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

Because anyone who voiced discontent got a lifelong tour of Siberia.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 06:27

BIG HEADLINE: Jun 13, 2006; "Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Plastic_Gargoyle posted:

(I still haven't figured out how they internally justified the concept of VIP aircraft, though)

The same way they internally justified Party-only restaurants and department stores.

"gently caress you, enjoy your borscht."

# ? Oct 29, 2017 06:30

Cat Hassler: Feb 7, 2006; Slippery Tilde

That Wikipedia list of Aeroflot accidents is amazing. Drunken crop-sprayers crashing AN-2's on a weekly basis.

"The aircraft was being ferried back to Vinnitsa from Velikaya Vulyga following a crop-spraying flight. Before takeoff, however, the crew, who was drunk, forgot to remove clamps on the rudder and stabilizer. The aircraft banked left on takeoff at 10�15 m (33�49 ft), lost altitude and crashed and burned out some 500 m (1,600 ft) from where it was parked."

# ? Oct 29, 2017 09:18

Duke Chin: Jan 11, 2002; _{^{Roger That:}}
MILK CRATES INBOUND

_{_{^{- FUCK THE HABS -}}}

...fortunately they were drunk so before impact they went limp and were ejected during the collision, only to be find 55m away unarmed.

Sadly, 17 people on the ground were killed.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 12:19

simplefish: Mar 28, 2011; So long, and thanks for all the ~~fish~~ gallbladdΣrs!

If I had to live in a rural Soviet wasteland, drunk biplaning would be the highlight of my existence too.

Being hit by drunk biplaners would surely be a close second.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 12:45

aphid_licker: Jan 7, 2009

Read the memoirs of a Russian lady recently and her dad dies when she is a kid in the 80s crashing his helicopter in a drunken joyride with his mistress. That's a bit of an rear end in a top hat move.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 14:42

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

The (almost certainly destroyed or nonexistent) documentation of soviet-era nuclear weapons handling must be loving HILARIOUS.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 15:07

Kerosene19: May 7, 2007

e.pilot posted:

This.

Stores of hood rat operators just amuse me to no end.

One dot right-

T�was another foggy morning, RVR was down to the 600�s across the board for most of the morning so as far as arrivals went it was going to be one of those dumpster fire days. Lots of diversions when it�s thick means you are going to get schwacked with those diverted flights once it lifts. I was not looking forward to dealing with it at all. Around 1000 am the layer of fog started to lift to about 75/100� AGL. I was getting a GPU set up on some sort of Citation when I heard a noise that I shouldn�t be hearing. I stopped, looked to my left and that�s when a DC-8 freighter dropped out of the fog layer a good 300/400 yards right of runway centerline directly over my head. The pilots of this DC-8 must have been the cowboy boot wearing types because they weren�t going around. I like to think that it was because the LaQuinta inn stopped serving continental breakfasts at 1100. They pitched it hard left and corrected right with a hard slip and planted it loving hard on the runway well past the regular touchdown zone.

Now the DC-8 is a tough airframe and all that but in this case they pushed just a little too hard. An entire wheel and tire broke off the right truck and was on it�s way to find freedom. One of those poignant visual moments in my career was watching that wheel pass between the #3 and #4 engines on braking, roll in a right arc through the infield and then at what I would guess was still about 100 kts come crashing to a halt in the middle of an airlines breakroom. Thankfully, nobody was hurt because the breakroom was empty due to all the ramp agents working the mess of late arrivals.

Never heard what happened with the two cowboys up front but I can�t imagine the discussions with the FSDO and Chief Pilot were pleasant ones.

# ? Oct 29, 2017 16:18