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Jedit posted:And for the love of Christ can people not start the "you can tell when the Alzheimers started to set in" poo poo again. Nation is post-Alzheimers. You can tell when the Alzheimers started to set in. Everything prior to this point at the very worst is good and lots of it is amazing. Nation 2008 - good, very emotional UA - 2009 - Bad I shall wear midnight 2010 - Ok Snuff 2011 - Awful Dodger 2012 - not read Raising Steam 2013 - Awful Shepherds Crown 2015 - not read The quality drop-off is huge so if its not the embuggerance what is it?
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Oct 29, 2017 16:11
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The dialogue just feels so different in the later few books. Snuff for instance has Vimes lecturing young ladies about getting a job, and it's this weird stilted monologue that goes for most of a page. I've read Steam, UA and Snuff once- because they're Pratchetts- but I'd certainly never read them again... But yeah, LIVE FATS DO YO GNU is just perfect.
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Oct 29, 2017 16:21
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Am I the only one that enjoyed the "young ladies talk' in Snuff? I thought it was great, dropping gruff, manly, no bullshit Vimes into the ridiculous lace filled Jane Austin world "You're woman not pet dogs, now get off your asses, stop being useless and pay attention to your gay sister" The Wilkins character was very weirdly written though. Went from classy educated butler to some guy Vimes was friends with.
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Oct 29, 2017 16:54
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I pretended he was either the son of the last guy or it is the same as with Igors and that is more of a title part of the job description. But we've done this dance before and it is just depressing. Read and enjoy the Discworld books you like.
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Oct 29, 2017 17:55
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Nation is a great book, everything afterwards ranges from bad to REALLY bad. I kinda forgot Dodger even existed, and for a good reason. Pre-2008? Anything with Susan in it. Kind of the opposite of the wizards as secondary plots - the main Susan plot is generally rubbish, even if the things around it are salvageable.
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Oct 30, 2017 09:57
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504 posted:The Wilkins character was very weirdly written though. Went from classy educated butler to some guy Vimes was friends with.
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Oct 30, 2017 10:36
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I liked color of magic and it sold me on the series. I'm not sure why everyone's so down on it.
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Oct 30, 2017 10:45
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tooterfish posted:Willikins is a street tough in a morning coat. Yes but before Snuff, he wasn't written like that. He was always written as a gentleman's gentleman, who just happened to have a rather nasty side in street violence when needed. In Snuff he's not written like that at all, and is basically written as just another working class member of the Watch.
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Oct 30, 2017 11:19
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Snuff had a lot of good bits, like the stuff with the goblins which was dark and affecting. What it lacked, was the iterative polish that made Pratchett's earlier flow so well. Like most of his later work, you can still see the raw talent, but it reads like a first draft.
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Oct 30, 2017 11:34
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The_Doctor posted:Yes but before Snuff, he wasn't written like that. He was always written as a gentleman's gentleman, who just happened to have a rather nasty side in street violence when needed. In Snuff he's not written like that at all, and is basically written as just another working class member of the Watch. He's always been from the streets AFAIK.
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Oct 30, 2017 15:27
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tooterfish posted:It's been ages since I read them so I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the parallels between his past and Vime's were brought up way way before Snuff (possibly in Night Watch). I'm not disputing that at all, what I'm saying is that before Snuff he was written as being like Jeeves, or the Admirable Crichton. Jingo revealed him to be a surprisingly dirty fighter, and Night Watch showed us he'd been in a street gang in his youth, but he was always written as exceedingly polite and civil. All very demure and 'yes, your grace'.
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Oct 30, 2017 15:42
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Yeah that bit in Jingo is great.
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Oct 30, 2017 16:40
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And I'm bound to say that it's quite disconcerting, yes disconcerting, how all the characters in the last few books start talking the same way, in long run-on sentences with commas and repetition, Mr Goon, and colloquial interjections, as I live and breathe. That's the truth of it, the honest unvarnished truth. From the Patrician to Cheery Littlebottom, when they've got something to say, and it just needs to be said, it's commas and repetition and, repetition of commas. edit, since I live to do this: Willikins and Pessimal: quote:Vimes turned the man round, picked up 35lb of rust-eaten chain mail and dropped it into his arms, causing A. E. Pessimal to bend double. 'I'll introduce you to some of the citizens who will be fighting alongside you tonight, shall I?' he said, as the little man hobbled after him. 'This is Willikins, my butler. No sharpened pennies in your cap tonight, Willikins?' And then later, when he's telling Vimes how he handled the deep-downers: quote:One hand grasped his wrist, and as he swung madly at the darkness with the hind leg of a rocking-horse this too was wrested from him. Instinctively, he kicked out, and there was a grunt. His arms were released, and from somewhere near the floor the voice of Willikins, rather strained, said, 'Excuse me, sir, I appear to have walked into your foot.' vvv Sir may then step forward and select sir's target of choice... vvv Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 17:11
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The_Doctor posted:I'm not disputing that at all, what I'm saying is that before Snuff he was written as being like Jeeves, or the Admirable Crichton. Jingo revealed him to be a surprisingly dirty fighter, and Night Watch showed us he'd been in a street gang in his youth, but he was always written as exceedingly polite and civil. All very demure and 'yes, your grace'. I think he began moving towards that characterization in Thud right? When he's a member of the specials showing off to A.E. Pessimal? I don't have my copy in front of me but I recall him being more street tough in that role.
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Oct 30, 2017 17:39
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hanales posted:I think he began moving towards that characterization in Thud right? When he's a member of the specials showing off to A.E. Pessimal? I don't have my copy in front of me but I recall him being more street tough in that role. Its a British class thing. He acts like that to Pessimal, not to Vimes. While you might think that's bullshit (because it is), from the character's point of view it's bedrock and when it changes there should be some reason given. Pratchett might have been going for a social progress thing with this and the lectures to the "useless" women but its clumsily done in both cases. Dirty Frank fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Oct 30, 2017 |
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Oct 30, 2017 23:30
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I mean, it could just be his increasing familiarity with Vimes leading towards less formality. It seems a bit sudden I guess but aren't there like ten or fifteen years or something between Jingo and Snuff?
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Oct 31, 2017 00:24
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Yeah, I took it as Vimes' long-term discomfort with being someone who is served rather than serving eventually leading to a certain loss of formality. But the bit with Pessimal is great. Nobody out-does the British for being aggressively over-formal to people they dislike.
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Oct 31, 2017 03:15
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Man those Willikins passages read like Pratchett writing his own fan fiction.
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Oct 31, 2017 09:52
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I don't see anything weird about the way Willikins develops, it happens to loads of other characters that show up in multiple books. Detritus is the best example, but it happens to some of the wizards, and the Watch characters, and the witches too. Also those lines from Thud own.
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Oct 31, 2017 10:03
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DontMockMySmock posted:I mean, it could just be his increasing familiarity with Vimes leading towards less formality. It seems a bit sudden I guess but aren't there like ten or fifteen years or something between Jingo and Snuff? A lot of it is that there's a big difference between how a gentleman's gentleman behaves in the city and in the country and at war. In every case the job is to look after sir and make sure sir has everything he needs to get through the day. But when life is dangerous, the relationship has to become less deferent because sometimes the master has to listen to the servant for his own good. In many ways two men alone in the countryside is more dangerous than war; in war you have many men around you and danger is certain, but when you're alone and not expecting anything to happen there's a lot more can go wrong and it's a lot harder to get help.
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Oct 31, 2017 10:28
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I really do think it is less to do with Wilken's character development, and everything to do with the weird comma-heavy monologues nearly every single character ends up using. Or, to quote Night Watch utterly out of context, "there was no rhythm to the man." Oddly enough, and venturing into severely unpopular ideas territory, the last few discworld novels really remind me of the tv adaptations, in that they are both filled with all the pratchett stuff, but their dialogue plods instead of sparking and snapping.
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Oct 31, 2017 10:55
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I mean, I gotta be honest and say, this right here:Trin Tragula posted:And I'm bound to say that it's quite disconcerting, yes disconcerting, how all the characters in the last few books start talking the same way, in long run-on sentences with commas and repetition, Mr Goon, and colloquial interjections, as I live and breathe. That's the truth of it, the honest unvarnished truth. From the Patrician to Cheery Littlebottom, when they've got something to say, and it just needs to be said, it's commas and repetition and, repetition of commas.
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Oct 31, 2017 10:58
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The_Doctor posted:Yes but before Snuff, he wasn't written like that. He was always written as a gentleman's gentleman, who just happened to have a rather nasty side in street violence when needed. In Snuff he's not written like that at all, and is basically written as just another working class member of the Watch. Yeah. Up to Snuff, he was a Jeeves type who happened to have been a bit of a rough customer in his youth, and still remembered the trick of it. In Snuff, he was a street tough who happened to be working as a gentleman's gentleman. Didn't really work as well.
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Oct 31, 2017 12:25
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Willikens' last (I think) line in Jingo is "did we win, sir?" and Vimes has to find an honest yet respectful yet non-jingoistic yet supportive yet non-patronising answer, and it's all delivered in a couple of sentences. (Much more interesting than half a page of "yes, sir, but you see, by my oath, the honest truth, sir, of the matter, is, when one is on the streets, as I live and breathe.")
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Oct 31, 2017 21:22
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You may be pleased to know that tonight in Hamilton, Ontario, we made sure that the Dark Morris was performed as best we can manage with our Roundworld limitations.
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Nov 1, 2017 03:40
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My headcannon (I know) ends at I Shall Wear Midnight. I did Not enjoy anything after that. Still teared up at Shepherd's Crown, but that wasn't due to the prose. Before that the worst book was Eric. I didn't know it was originally illustrated, but I also really hate Josh Kirby's artwork (I know). I don't understand why anyone dislikes The Last Continent, but it seems to be a popular target of ire so 
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Nov 1, 2017 04:20
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I'm a bit mystified by that too. Is it non-commonwealthers who don't get the references? Australians who do? The plot is not very coherent but no more so than the other early ones. E: Oh wow, it's way later than I thought - 1998 Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Nov 1, 2017 |
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Nov 1, 2017 04:54
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The wizard plot is hilarious and the Rincewind plot is just kind of there
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Nov 1, 2017 05:12
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Jaguars! posted:I'm a bit mystified by that too. Is it non-commonwealthers who don't get the references? Australians who do? The plot is not very coherent but no more so than the other early ones. It's the first "modern" Rincewind book and about as well developed as, say, Witches Abroad. Which is to say very drat well put together but not quite up to Peak Pratchett. Lucky for me, I worked for an Australian for 3 years and I got the lot.
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Nov 1, 2017 05:19
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Beachcomber posted:My headcannon (I know) I bet you don't 
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Nov 1, 2017 10:51
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Witches abroad is very Peak Pratchett what the heck am i reading
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Nov 1, 2017 10:59
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Cicadalek posted:Witches abroad is very Peak Pratchett what the heck am i reading A parody of every fairy tale known to man, and a meditation on good and evil.
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Nov 1, 2017 11:20
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Best footnote, go.
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Nov 1, 2017 19:41
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Cicadalek posted:Witches abroad is very Peak Pratchett what the heck am i reading Point conceded. Time to re-read at least the witches series.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:00
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YggiDee posted:Best footnote, go. Good Omens.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:13
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YggiDee posted:Best footnote, go. Mort posted:The only thing known to go faster than ordinary light is monarchy, according to the philosopher Ly Tin Wheedle. He reasoned like this: you can't have more than one king, and tradition demands that there is no gap between kings, so when a king dies the succession must therefore pass to the heir instantaneously. Presumably, he said, there must be some elementary particles -- kingons, or possibly queons -- that do this job, but of course succession sometimes fails if, in mid-flight, they strike an anti-particle, or republicon. His ambitious plans to use his discovery to send messages, involving the careful torturing of a small king in order to modulate the signal, were never fully expanded because, at that point, the bar closed.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:13
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The one about the pizza topping always makes me smile.
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Nov 1, 2017 20:48
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Jerry Cotton posted:I bet you don't I know there should only be 1 N. I also know that having a headcanon is lame but I'm gonna do it anyway. There are only 3 Alien movies. It's a shame Peter Jackson's Hobbit movie was never made. I've always liked quote:The phrase ‘Set a thief to catch a thief’ had by this time (after strong representation from the Thieves’ Guild) replaced a much older and quintessentially Ankh-Morporkian proverb, which was 'Set a deep hole with spring-loaded sides, tripwires, whirling knife blades driven by water power, broken glass and scorpions, to catch a thief.’ I'm sure there are ones I like more, but paging through all the books is a bit time consuming.
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Nov 1, 2017 21:37
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E: Found the full quote: [Quirke] deals in the type of generalised unpleasantness that slightly tarnishes the soul of all who come into contact with it.* *Much like British Rail Jaguars! fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Nov 1, 2017 |
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Nov 1, 2017 23:29
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I'm very fond of a double footnote combo in Men At Arms: *Fingers-Mazda, the first thief in the world, stole fire from the gods. But he was unable to fence it. It was too hot.* *He really got burned on that deal. And also one from Night Watch: "There must be a dozen of 'em. We're going to get cheesed* *Like creamed, but it goes on for a lot longer. I don't know why they both stick in my mind, but whenever I think about footnotes, those two and the long one about Kingons and Queons are always the first I think of. Also I just wanted to mention my love of Granny Weatherwax absolutely destroying the gamblers in Witches Abroad. It's an amazing scene.
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Nov 2, 2017 04:20
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