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Only the top agents in spy fiction search bags.
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Nov 14, 2017 15:49
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I think it’s kind of quaint that the secret lab is only kind of competent. They’re in the basement of some office building in a small town and just have some vans and about a dozen all-purpose goons. They’ve had two separate events where everyone working there has been killed and just get shut down instead of fumigating and cleaning up the dead monster dogs.
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Nov 14, 2017 16:01
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business hammocks posted:I think it’s kind of quaint that the secret lab is only kind of competent. They’re in the basement of some office building in a small town and just have some vans and about a dozen all-purpose goons. They’ve had two separate events where everyone working there has been killed and just get shut down instead of fumigating and cleaning up the dead monster dogs. Yes it's as if the mass death and closing of the portal made Nancy "burning the lab to the ground" entirely moot and unnecessary.
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Nov 14, 2017 16:12
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Junkfist posted:Yes it's as if the mass death and closing of the portal made Nancy "burning the lab to the ground" entirely moot and unnecessary. Except Barb's family got closure, which was the exact reason she did it in the first place.
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Nov 14, 2017 16:15
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For some reason she didn’t want the emotionally destroyed parents of her dead friend who haunts her dreams to sell their home in a doomed quest for closure. Plus it’s the only time in the whole show that the reporter is happy instead of miserable.
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Nov 14, 2017 16:19
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Right, she died from a chemical asphixiant leak that contaminates all the soil in Hawkins so we could make a child-grooming pederast who was forcing a family to sell their home to pay him happy. Hope they still don't want to sell it because you could probably get a better deal for a home in Centralia. There was no way the Lab could've convinced anyone Barb was dead with a fake body, the real body... Especially to stop an investigative journalist or the parents who hired him, nope. Junkfist fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Nov 14, 2017 |
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Nov 14, 2017 16:20
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Junkfist posted:Right, she died from a chemical asphixiant leak that contaminates all the soil in Hawkins so we could make a child-grooming pederast who was forcing a family to sell their home to pay him happy. Hope they still don't want to sell it because you could probably get a better deal for a home in Centralia. Right, because the dead body ploy that involved sculpting a fake body (that wasn't accurate enough), bribing at least one state trooper (who was discovered), and replacing the coroner (which is weird and tipped off Hopper) was so incredibly successful the first time they tried it. The lab decided the runaway story was good enough. They weren't going to open themselves up to a risky fake body plot just because Nancy asked them nicely. Nancy forced them to create a cover story that offered closure to the parents and probably left them with a nice settlement. Like I get that goons don't actually pay attention to the shows they watch, but maybe look up from SA a bit more so that you actually catch the plot points that the show is drat near spelling out for you.
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Nov 14, 2017 16:43
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Also, I've been going through
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Nov 14, 2017 16:47
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He hung up her pictures. 
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Nov 14, 2017 16:49
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Baronash posted:Right, because the dead body ploy that involved sculpting a fake body (that wasn't accurate enough), bribing at least one state trooper (who was discovered), and replacing the coroner (which is weird and tipped off Hopper) was so incredibly successful the first time they tried it. It worked until Will came back. The general public accepted he was dead. It's been a year. You just need a skull or some teeth for goodness sake. They know where the corpse is. They probably have the corpse stuffed in a fridge like a demodog to run tests on. Instead we had a dumb side story that went nowhere, did nothing, was poorly written and executed so we could have the important closure for the incredibly memorable parents of Barb. Here's how much work that stupid plot point deserves: "Barb's dead." Junkfist fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Nov 14, 2017 |
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Nov 14, 2017 16:51
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Baronash posted:Also, I've been going through You're insisting click-bait writers should shame a child actress for her opinion on her character by telling her she's perpetuating real-life abuse by having it?
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Nov 14, 2017 16:53
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Junkfist posted:You're insisting click-bait writers should shame a child actress for her opinion on her character by telling her she's perpetuating real-life abuse by having it? No, I'm saying that we should be interested in how our culture portrays positive relationships such that a 13 year old girl can't identify abuse even as a third party observer.
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Nov 14, 2017 17:00
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Baronash posted:No, I'm saying that we should be interested in how our culture portrays positive relationships such that a 13 year old girl can't identify abuse even as a third party observer. There are people in our culture who can't identify that the Barb Plotline in S2 blows, I don't think we're collectively ready to mansplain a character to the young lady performing her.
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Nov 14, 2017 17:05
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She's a kid with an opinion on how she plays her character. I don't think we need to send her off to the wrong thought gulag for re-education because of that.
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Nov 14, 2017 19:05
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Solice Kirsk posted:She's a kid with an opinion on how she plays her character. I don't think we need to send her off to the wrong thought gulag for re-education because of that. This isn't what I said at all, but that's a lovely straw man you've built up. It's an indictment of our culture and the media we produce that the teenager who has spent more time discussing these characters with the creators and playing one in front of the camera cannot identify the abusive relationship her character was involved in. I'm not at all faulting her for her opinions, because she is the product of these ideas, not the source.
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Nov 14, 2017 20:26
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I'm glad I get to see another crazy person wander into the thread. (I missed the earlier one who claimed teenage girls being jealous of each other was a Patriarchal Hollywood Psy-Op)
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Nov 14, 2017 20:50
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Now that was pretty funny. I kind of wish they had stuck around.
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Nov 14, 2017 20:51
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Baronash posted:Also, I've been going through I think he did. That doesn’t mean he thought of her as real or human or respected her, but abusers do often feel possessive, obsessive love for their victims. The longer she’s gone, the more fixated on her he becomes and the more he loses track of how hosed he is and how doomed Earth probably is. He really seems like he’s bargaining at the end when he starts telling her that everything will be fine if she just goes back to the base with him, even though that’s not going to do poo poo to stop the monster or seal the portal (as far as he knows)—or save him from his bosses who will want to kill or imprison him for going a little beyond the bounds of a cheapo remote-viewing project with adult volunteers. Like, Eleven is easily the least significant element of what’s happening, as Paul Reiser confirms by not really looking for her and actively helping her start a new life. If Brenner were simply rational, he’d quit looking for her or just have her shot at the middle school.
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Nov 14, 2017 20:54
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Junkfist posted:I'm glad I get to see another crazy person wander into the thread. Like a full half of your posts are about your ridiculous obsession with the Barb plotline. I'm pretty sure you've spent more time talking about the Barb plotline than it took in the actual show. Not sure you want to be throwing stones from that particular glass house.
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Nov 14, 2017 20:55
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Baronash posted:Like a full half of your posts are about your ridiculous obsession with the Barb plotline. Yeah, it loving sucks but I probably spend more time talking about Billy's mysterious racism, maybe you want to count my posts so you can appear really sane? Junkfist fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Nov 14, 2017 |
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Nov 14, 2017 20:58
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Baronash posted:This isn't what I said at all, but that's a lovely straw man you've built up. The actor knows Modine’s character is bad and that you shouldn’t want a relationship with someone who beats and torments you. The plot is about her character getting away. She’s talking about how Modine plays the character (something she is expert in since she does the same thing), that his actions are motivated by obsession and fixation and that he rationalizes away the harm he causes and believes he is a suitable father for her. Other characters who are after her, like the blonde lady second-in-command, probably just want to find a practical solution and kill her or something.
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Nov 14, 2017 21:03
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business hammocks posted:The actor knows Modine's character is bad and that you shouldn't want a relationship with someone who beats and torments you. The plot is about her character getting away. She's talking about how Modine plays the character (something she is expert in since she does the same thing), that his actions are motivated by obsession and fixation and that he rationalizes away the harm he causes and believes he is a suitable father for her. Yeah, Papa is a horrible person, but that doesn't mean he isn't capable of loving Eleven in a hosed up way. Loving someone and abusing them isn't mutually exclusive. That's what's so vicious about the violence parents do to their children or husbands do to their wives. In Borderlands/La Frontera, Gloria E. Anzaldúa says: "Tenderness, a sign of vulnerability, is so feared that it is showered on women with verbal abuse and blows." You can see elements of this in Hopper's relationship with Eleven. He is so afraid of showing how much he cares for her that he instead resorts to abusive, violent behaviour. Mind you, such an explanation doesn't make abuse acceptable. It's just possible that abuse doesn't go along with hatred in the way you'd normally assume. I actually think that this could be an interesting angle to explore, if they decide to bring Papa back. You can see the monstrous acts he's capable of, but it's not really clear how he got to this point. What kind of person could take a child away from her mother, lock the girl in a lab and torture her, and still sleep soundly at the end of the day. Maybe then we'd end up with Mindhunter, though.
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Nov 14, 2017 21:16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiJV67OJ8tw&t=55sMillie Bobby Brown posted:I feel like Papa was a warm guy, and he did love me inside. This is followed by a string of comments defending Papa's methods over the objections of the Duffer Brothers who really do see Papa as unambiguously bad. Even stripping out everything else, no abuser loves their victim. It's obsession and domineering behavior masquerading as "love."
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Nov 14, 2017 21:18
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I think it may be the case that actors have nuanced multi-layered performances in their dramatic portrayal of complex interpersonal relationships that aren't indicative of mental illness and are (probably) not being influenced by the psychic vampires who control our civilization.
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Nov 14, 2017 21:20
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And More posted:You can see elements of this in Hopper's relationship with Eleven. He is so afraid of showing how much he cares for her that he instead resorts to abusive, violent behaviour. Mind you, such an explanation doesn't make abuse acceptable. It's just possible that abuse doesn't go along with hatred in the way you'd normally assume. You're right. Hopper was certainly straddling that line of abusive tendencies early in the show. Which is why I would argue he doesn't actually care for Eleven as a person (rather than as a concept that he needs to save in the way he couldn't save his daughter) until after she returns. That's when their relationship becomes a loving one.
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Nov 14, 2017 21:26
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Baronash posted:You're right. Hopper was certainly straddling that line of abusive tendencies early in the show. Which is why I would argue he doesn't actually care for Eleven as a person (rather than as a concept that he needs to save in the way he couldn't save his daughter) until after she returns. That's when their relationship becomes a loving one. I just really disagree with your definition of love. It seems like love must be a good thing under all circumstances, and as soon as it's not healthy, it's no longer love. That really doesn't jibe with how love is portrayed in Western culture. Look no further than the god of the old testament, and you'll find someone who expects perfect, devotional love, and is violently wrathful when there is even a moment of hesitation. Regarding the video, let's not forget that she's just saying what comes to mind based on two specific scenes. The Duffers really only object to the use of "good", as well. If she had used a word with a less positive connotation to imply closeness, it would probably be fine. And More fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Nov 14, 2017 |
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Nov 14, 2017 21:40
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I know nothing about MBB's personal life or upbringing but maybe she's just a 14 year old kid who's had an ok life so far and doesn't need to fully understand the dynamics of an abusive relationship.
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Nov 15, 2017 02:48
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Karmine posted:I know nothing about MBB's personal life or upbringing but maybe she's just a 14 year old kid who's had an ok life so far and doesn't need to fully understand the dynamics of an abusive relationship. I'm pretty sure she mentioned in interviews between seasons that she literally hadn't watched the first season. Not a huge surprise that she might view Brenner more through the lens of the guy she hung out with on set than what he becomes in the finished version of the show.
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Nov 15, 2017 03:06
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Good god, Jim Rash has negative charisma. It’s only made worse by how charming everyone else in the aftershow is. But he makes it a real slog.
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Nov 15, 2017 04:55
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I don't know much about her background (and it's not my business anyway), but Wikipedia told me about a, shall we say, interesting role she had before Stranger Things on a show called Intruders (which I haven't seen). drat.
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Nov 15, 2017 05:11
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who cares what the actors think of the characters they play
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Nov 15, 2017 05:20
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Brett Gelman actually has a lot of interesting things to say about his sleazy molester character. He put a lot of work into building the character and provides a plausible non-molester reason for why he wants Nancy and Jonathan to gently caress. He just unfortunately comes off as a gross pervert.
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Nov 15, 2017 05:32
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This is the first I've ever heard the word molester be used for someone that just watches people have sex.
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Nov 15, 2017 05:38
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I mean that he’s the platonic ideal of a sleazy creep, I guess regardless of whether or not he flashes people at the park. But the actor gives plausible explanations of why he only seems sleazy and has a lot of hidden pathos.
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Nov 15, 2017 05:41
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So the Duffers were on Fresh Air today talking about season 2. They said that when they pitched the idea to Netflix about a "sequel" season that Netflix wasn't really on board at first. The Netflix people said sequels are usually disappointing compared to the original. Judging by season 2, Netflix was quite prescient there. The Duffers also said they were excited about having more money and using bigger effects and creating more monsters for season 2 so that they could keep up with big cable shows like Game of Thrones. So that's why we got a big CGI shadow monster instead of stuff like a new story or character development.
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Nov 15, 2017 06:27
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season 2 was fun, you guys are boring
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Nov 15, 2017 06:44
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JawKnee posted:
I'd say he's "surprisingly capable" not "ultra capable" given his general drunk and lazy attitude. But it works. Everything I've seen about Hopper leads me to suggest before he lost his daughter, he WAS very capable, he just slid into depression after that. That said he's hardly a badass supreme or one man army. He feels kinda groundedly realistic to be honest. As mentioned Steve with a Bat would get my bet if the two had to fight a monster swarm.
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Nov 15, 2017 06:48
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Former Human posted:, Netflix was quite prescient there. Prescient? Everybody always says that.
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Nov 15, 2017 08:11
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Baronash posted:I'm pretty sure you've spent more time talking about the Barb plotline than it took in the actual show. It was literally the B Plot of the entirety of season 2. Like whatever the merits of how good or poo poo it was, you can't say they didn't spend a lot of time on it.
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Nov 15, 2017 08:15
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Brenner talk: I think in Beyond Stranger Things there was talk from the Duffer Bros. about Modine not seeing his character as a bad guy, and despite how MBB can go into tears at will (lol that casting video), she still needed to believe in that father-daughter relationship with Brenner to pull that kind of acting off. I was rewatching season 1 a bit and at one point all Modine has to do is look at her before she bursts into tears so it feels like there is some kind of conditioning in effect. It was cool seeing them discuss that a bit in the aftershow, but it would've been much better if it was just all behind the scenes footage rather than talking heads.
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Nov 15, 2017 08:29
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