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Having an image of a dwarf eating at a table and you hear a buncha muffled screaming and footsteps claw scratches and he looks up to see a cheetah chasing the goblin through the ceiling tubes
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Nov 17, 2017 04:20
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| # ? May 20, 2024 10:17 |
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I'm thinking of falling back into this for the first time in years. I like long games with excessively large and sprawling underground civilisations of grand design and too much population, so - Are there any major bugs with 43.05 that you have to build in workarounds that I should know about - Are there any specific strategies right now to maintain my FPS in the long run, things I should avoid or whatnot, ways I should lay things out, stuff I should murder or never open. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 04:52
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Framerate: Ease pathfinding by keeping the population under control, designate traffic zones, and avoid mining out big open areas. Use quantum stockpiles. Chop all the trees. Turn temperature off. Train a farmer, cook, and glassmaker up ASAP because Quarry Bush Leaves Roast and Glass Serrated Disc traps are game-breakingly OP.
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Nov 17, 2017 06:40
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verbal enema posted:Having an image of a dwarf eating at a table and you hear a buncha muffled screaming and footsteps claw scratches and he looks up to see a cheetah chasing the goblin through the ceiling tubes It is my great dream.
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Nov 17, 2017 09:51
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Kenning posted:It is my great dream. the best bit of DF hopefullness is that it will probably happen
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Nov 17, 2017 09:54
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Of course Toady will rationalize fear by modeling the endocrine system and every creature will have separate adrenaline and cortisol values.
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Nov 17, 2017 09:58
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Kenning posted:Of course Toady will rationalize fear by modeling the endocrine system and every creature will have separate adrenaline and cortisol values. If this ever happens dudes ITT are gonna be draining adrenaline from various creatures and slamming it into the veins of their warriors before battle and it's gonna be amazing.
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Nov 17, 2017 13:33
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But...can you harvest the fear from the blood of your enemies?
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Nov 17, 2017 13:43
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Big open areas alone are not a problem with pathfinding. As in, if you have some central staircase going right to hell, and mine out a few of the Z levels in between, the cost for the pathfinding code ought to be the exact same. since you're just pathing straight through it, it doesn't add anything in terms of cycles, mostly. the bigger problem is more lack of direct paths combined with specifically placed, semi enclosed big spaces. more or less, if you see you've got any two points in your fort where trying to move to closer proximity spaces results in the walking distance between the two growing, you probably want to make a more direct option. the problem also is that "big spaces" can mean "giant rooms", but can also mean stuff like "your housing district of a bunch of tiny rooms and corridors that are inbetween a workshop area and a resource site while not actually linking the two" entire z-levels seperated by a choke point" or other dumb things
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Nov 17, 2017 14:13
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Tiler Kiwi posted:Big open areas alone are not a problem with pathfinding. As in, if you have some central staircase going right to hell, and mine out a few of the Z levels in between, the cost for the pathfinding code ought to be the exact same. since you're just pathing straight through it, it doesn't add anything in terms of cycles, mostly. I mean you say that, but we are talking Toady One code.
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Nov 17, 2017 15:22
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He just uses A* for pathfinding, right?
Tunicate fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 15:56
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Tunicate posted:He just uses A* for pathfinding, right? Vanilla A*? There are a lot of optimised versions that'd be highly applicable to DF, potentially orders of magnitude so. Plus there's caching, shared optimal paths, reusing paths fom last frame after rechecks... Hell, a straight up implementation of the A*/Jump Point Search would probably be fantastic for DF; it's fantastic at disregarding large open space noise (simple speed comparison) MikeJF fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 17:26
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I don't remember the details but it's not vanilla A*. That said I'm sure there are optimizations that could be taken advantage of. I know it is boring but I wouldn't mind a release cycle of just 'let's go back and optimize things with FPS in mind' because no matter what you do a 15+ year old fort will be down in the 50s-60s at best and it only goes downhill from there.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:07
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COMRADES posted:I don't remember the details but it's not vanilla A*. That said I'm sure there are optimizations that could be taken advantage of. I know Toady is super jealous of his code and doesn’t really feel compelled to cater to his users (his primary “customer” just being himself) but didn’t he once open up some parts of the code with simplified examples, and people provided him with a huge improvement? I wish he’d do that again, especially have a standard UI package and clean up a lot of other weirdness.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:18
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He’s also just a human being with limited time and patience for the unfun part of programming. The guy loves to work on new things.
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Nov 17, 2017 19:31
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DarkHorse posted:I know Toady is super jealous of his code and doesn’t really feel compelled to cater to his users (his primary “customer” just being himself) but didn’t he once open up some parts of the code with simplified examples, and people provided him with a huge improvement? As I recall, it's been a few years, but he never had any formal training or exposure to proper software development and never actually designed or architecture the program or used proper patterns or optimised approaches because they weren't really things he knew, so it's all a chaotic and impossibly inefficient tangle of horror that makes Notch's work on minecraft look like artistry. But it works and it turns out that you can make something great if you just keep piling on it for a decade and don't care much about performance. He has the maths background to let him figure out the generation and interactions, but not the software development skill to do structure it well. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 19:37
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Toady One posted:11/15/2017
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Nov 17, 2017 20:41
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COMRADES posted:I don't remember the details but it's not vanilla A*. That said I'm sure there are optimizations that could be taken advantage of. This isn't really true. It's possible to maintain an FPS-stable fort indefinitely, it just requires being disciplined about a lot of things that are potentially really drat boring to be disciplined about. (And also not having certain map features, and also turning weather and temperature off, and using the "cleanmap" command periodically, and...)
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Nov 17, 2017 20:59
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:This isn't really true. It's possible to maintain an FPS-stable fort indefinitely, it just requires being disciplined about a lot of things that are potentially really drat boring to be disciplined about. (And also not having certain map features, and also turning weather and temperature off, and using the "cleanmap" command periodically, and...) Biggest thing I've found is to use DF Hack to occasionally teleport all of the broken socks and stuff into magma. Sucks that it has to be done but, until Toady implements dwarves making the decision to trash stuff themselves, it will have to do.
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Nov 17, 2017 21:11
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You're right that you can get it stable in the 30s-50s for a long long time but it still limits the amount of complex contraptions you can have going. Like, I can make a trap room that raises the bridges fills with magma and then resets all automatically based on a logic circuit running on water pressure but that right there is hell on the FPS. Turning temperature off is too much for me. It breaks a lot of stuff you wouldn't expect it to. I do the other stuff like cleaning with dfhack though. COMRADES fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Nov 17, 2017 |
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Nov 17, 2017 21:18
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Yeah a good FPS requires turning off a lot of the most fun things. Forget about waterfalls and canals and anything with fluid mechanics.
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Nov 17, 2017 23:05
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Every great hall I make has to have at least one waterfall and ideally lots. By the time I succumb to FPS death I'm usually bored of the fort anyway.
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Nov 18, 2017 01:05
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Pharnakes posted:By the time I succumb to FPS death I'm usually bored of the fort anyway. Live fast, die young, leave a pretty fort; that's what I always say.
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Nov 18, 2017 01:32
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Jothan posted:Live fast, die young, leave a pretty fort; that's what I always say. See the only problem with this is I don't tend to leave behind pretty forts so much as vomit and miasma ridden hellscapes infested with a few wandering mad dwarfs and 200 elves stuck in a flaming wooden pyramid.
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Nov 18, 2017 02:12
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Pharnakes posted:See the only problem with this is I don't tend to leave behind pretty forts so much as vomit and miasma ridden hellscapes infested with a few wandering mad dwarfs and 200 elves stuck in a flaming wooden pyramid. Naw that's still pretty  PRETTY METAL!
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Nov 18, 2017 02:22
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You fought well . .  She died just outside the hospital. Couldn't breathe.
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Nov 18, 2017 02:26
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Shibawanko posted:Yeah a good FPS requires turning off a lot of the most fun things. Forget about waterfalls and canals and anything with fluid mechanics. Waterfalls are a problem, but fluid dynamics are fine as long as you engineer it to be on-demand rather than always-on. I always design my reservoirs with a fill and drain system.
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Nov 18, 2017 04:44
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shame on an IGA posted:Framerate: Ease pathfinding by keeping the population under control, designate traffic zones, and avoid mining out big open areas. Use quantum stockpiles. Chop all the trees. Turn temperature off. does temperature off just change weather and stuff or does it gently caress up magma still? and dwarves getting frozen in rivers is extremely important to gameplay
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Nov 18, 2017 08:13
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Verviticus posted:does temperature off just change weather and stuff or does it gently caress up magma still? and dwarves getting frozen in rivers is extremely important to gameplay Weather is a separate option. Turning temperature off breaks magma and freeze/thaw cycles and temperature-related damage and also apparently dwarves will refuse to set foot in a cast obsidian tile or any other tiles previously occupied by magma?
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Nov 18, 2017 08:29
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Will the dwarfs ever stop re-electing the vampire mayor who has been locked in his room for years after being convicted of three murders? "Sure, he's killed some folks, but he likes dogs. I say we let him have another term."
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Nov 19, 2017 18:18
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as a citizen of a democracy, that sounds like a feature
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Nov 19, 2017 18:28
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Basically the dwarf with the most friends and acquaintances will win and since vampires usually have very good social skills they win a lot. Have a dwarf do nothing but hang out in meeting areas and eventually that dwarf will probably be mayor. When I want to make a Gremlin or other intelligent [CAN_SPEAK] animal my mayor I just pasture them in the tavern and/or dining room and they eventually get elected mayor since all they do is chat with other dwarves. Good mayors since they don't make demands/orders. On a sidenote if you find a dwarf with no item preferences and make them a noble they'll never issue any orders or make demands either. Can be hard to find one but it's pretty nice when your baron/duke isn't telling you to make 3 tables every other month. COMRADES fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Nov 19, 2017 |
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Nov 19, 2017 18:36
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so much vomit everywhere!!!
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Nov 20, 2017 01:12
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New devlog makes NPC companions smarter than quite a few players.new devlog posted:That took a while, and there were many deaths, but it seems the infiltrating companions are sorted out now... I manifested with a party of bound companions this time, named "Buddy A", "Buddy B" and "Buddy C". All the same, when confronted by a goblin glassmaker near a watch tower, Buddy A quick-wittedly shouted out "My name is Tode. I'm a human beast hunter from <correct entity name>." And for now, that works. Buddy A held this identity until we made our way out of the site. Your buddies don't yet screw up for any reason. You can screw up, if your identity is chosen very poorly.
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Nov 20, 2017 07:26
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According to the bug tracker, Toady fixed tree dwarves and unpulpable zombies yesterday.
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Nov 21, 2017 19:09
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lol I'm trying out Adventure mode after many years and it's p. weird. I was looking for a specific dwarf because everyone said he'd know where my hunt targets were, and so I'm going around the Hillock shouting in every room asking about this person. One dude is like, I seek death, take me with you. I agree, and we continue looking for this person. By now I've gone inside every room twice. Nobody knows where this person is. Finally, my companion speaks up and says, oh yeah, I'm that person you keep asking about.
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Nov 21, 2017 21:24
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Lpzie posted:lol I'm trying out Adventure mode after many years and it's p. weird. I was looking for a specific dwarf because everyone said he'd know where my hunt targets were, and so I'm going around the Hillock shouting in every room asking about this person. One dude is like, I seek death, take me with you. I agree, and we continue looking for this person. By now I've gone inside every room twice. Nobody knows where this person is. Finally, my companion speaks up and says, oh yeah, I'm that person you keep asking about. One time I recruited the first two people I met. When one of them was mortally wounded by a cyclops I asked him about his family so I could tell them he died in battle. To my horror his wife was the other person I had recruited. He got better though and killed most of the night beasts we fought even though he was crippled in one leg.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:34
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https://twitter.com/Bay12Games/status/933541131513507841
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Nov 23, 2017 04:45
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Give thanks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1gF0uhHsqk
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Nov 23, 2017 04:51
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posted:
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 Windows: http://bay12games.com/dwarves/df_44_01_win.zip Mac: http://bay12games.com/dwarves/df_44_01_osx.tar.bz2 EDIT: Ninjaed
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Nov 23, 2017 04:54
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