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CFox posted:Sounds like a lot more work when you potentially have to do it for 5 characters multiple times in one fight. I was cool with switching weapons in something like New Vegas with it's DT system since I only had to handle it for one character. The weapon switch hotkey in 1 makes that poo poo super easy though. You can even hit it with multiple people selected to change all their weapons at once, though it just increments the number so when I had Kana in my party I'd sometimes end up with him hitting dudes with his fists because he has three weapon slots 
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Nov 21, 2017 17:07
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I like the idea of changing armor from time to time depending on the enemies. It's kind of what they did in the middle ages. Nobody was wearing heavy plate all the time or even for every battle. So this is cool because ~ immersion ~ For weapons I guess Obsidian area designers won't be asshats (not all the time anyway) and will group enemies together with similar resistances? Because, yeah, switching every other fight would be annoying. Swapping weapons wouldn't be too annoying (especially now that you can have the same shield in several weapon sets, thank god), but actively having to go to the inventory would definitively be.
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Nov 21, 2017 17:15
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Furism posted:I like the idea of changing armor from time to time depending on the enemies. It's kind of what they did in the middle ages. Nobody was wearing heavy plate all the time or even for every battle. So this is cool because ~ immersion ~ The one thing I'd change about the DR system is that right now, enemies don't really have too much of a weakness. Chain and breastplate both have a DR of 8 with 6 for two other damage types, iirc, but that weakness of 2 doesn't really reward careful in-combat match-ups, though it could in some edge cases. Not necessarily enough to generally assume that you'll be able to manage with good targeting in-combat, so you'd need to build for potential penetration anyway. I like the penetration system in theory a lot, but a ton depends on how itemization and monster design shakes out.
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Nov 21, 2017 17:27
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Furism posted:I like the idea of changing armor from time to time depending on the enemies. It's kind of what they did in the middle ages. Nobody was wearing heavy plate all the time or even for every battle. So this is cool because ~ immersion ~ Ginette Reno posted:I haven't played the beta yet so I can't weigh in too much but one kinda cool thing about the pen system is it seems like it will encourage you to use multiple weapons. So instead of just waltzing through the game with my end game weapon until I run into something immune to it I will instead have to switch things up a bit and explore multiple weapon styles and carry multiple weapon types. I thought I'd posted this here but I think I said it on the Obsidian forum instead, but yeah, switching weapons in the abstract isn't that big a deal and can even add to gameplay a bit. And you're right that having to switch armor sometimes isn't the worst thing in the world necessarily. The issues right now at least (imho) are: 1) the system is full of weird counterintuitive thresholds and break points that lead to weird results and encourage "gamey" absurd behavior (Bulwark against Elements not helping a wizard in padded against sand blights; de-armoring down to leather vs the skulking terror, etc), and 2) Penetration abilities like Hel-Hyraf's and Expose Vulnerabilities are dramatically preferred by the current system; I'd bet 90% or more of the chanters created so far in the beta have taken Hel-Hyraf's, for example. There's a reason the default mercenary fighter starts with a mace. I think a more graduated system with a less sharply defined threshold / break point would help both those issues. There's nothing wrong with the concept it just needs some refining and polishing to take the sharp edges off.
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Nov 21, 2017 17:27
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Furism posted:The Collector's Edition has a lorebook and it's a great book. I bought the physical version too because I'm a nerd but it exists in PDF so Or, you know, just buy the Definitive Edition of the game that includes all of that stuff now.
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Nov 21, 2017 18:33
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and stuff.
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I'd bet 90% or more of the chanters created so far in the beta have taken Hel-Hyraf's, for example.
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Nov 21, 2017 19:08
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Gonna wrap up in a blanket and read PoE lore on an ipad while drinking hot cocoa. I'm 12 again 
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Nov 21, 2017 19:11
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rope kid posted:lol if you haven't played with a Beckoner yet. Somebody only lets me have five character slots at a time! edit: https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/933035390990147584 awww he listened! I can't stay mad at you! Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Nov 21, 2017 |
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Nov 21, 2017 19:15
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victrix posted:Gonna wrap up in a blanket and read PoE lore on an ipad while drinking hot cocoa. I'm 12 again That does make me wonder, since we had Kerfluffles Marshmallows mentioned during the first kickstarter (if I am recalling correctly) are there any kind of fluffy sugary snacks like them in PoE? For your cocoa, I mean.
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Nov 21, 2017 19:19
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The tiering is a good step. I'm hoping it ends up closer to 20% or 15% per step in the release.
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Nov 21, 2017 19:50
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Avalerion posted:I feel that the gist of these changes doesn't really change how things work from PoE1 at top tier play - stacking accuracy and dr penetration were already the optimal ways to gear for damage because of how those systems worked it was never a bad idea. And it still had situations where your weapons would be ineffective and the optimal thing to do would be to switch weapons - but if you didn't it just meant the fight went on a bit longer but eventually you could bruteforce it anyway - dreadfire instead just puts up a brick wall and goes nope that's not working, you have to try something else. This is the opposite of what's happening.
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Nov 21, 2017 20:04
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Somebody only lets me have five character slots at a time! Yeah, I think this might be all that's needed. I mean, I think the actual penetration values of weapons (or enemy armor) could use some changes but this goes a big way towards making low-pen weapons more viable.
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Nov 21, 2017 20:13
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Somebody only lets me have five character slots at a time! I'll see what I can do  actually you know what I just had the most ridiculous idea, I can't wait to test this tonight alongside the penetration changes. I hope it works
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Nov 21, 2017 20:30
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Somebody only lets me have five character slots at a time! I am now insanely, unreasonably mad.
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Nov 21, 2017 20:31
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Random rear end in a top hat posted:Yeah, I think this might be all that's needed. I mean, I think the actual penetration values of weapons (or enemy armor) could use some changes but this goes a big way towards making low-pen weapons more viable. It definitely addresses most of the weird-rear end armor switching edge cases that were bothering me. Like, you don't want to downshift from leather to clothing vs. Xaurips, and a wizard in padded will get a lot of benefit out of casting Bulwark of the Elements now. You still might as well fight the Skulking Terror in leather as in anything else, but that's a single edge case -- this or whatever this ends up finally tweaked to seems like it should be enough to prevent the weird-breakpoint-gamey-behavior situations popping up most of the time. One issue that I haven't seen raised is that some classes and subclasses have a harder time than others switching weapons. For example if you're a melee mage or a priest using summoned weapons, you're kinda stuck. Still those all seem to have pretty strong lash effects so maybe the balancing has already accounted for that. I did notice that the "devoted" fighter subclass gets its benefits with all weapons it's proficient with, not just a single weapon.
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Nov 21, 2017 20:33
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Glad it's being adjusted. Regardless of anything else, it just FELT bad to me to spend effort and resources pumping my pen and nerfing enemy armor and still like fall one short and get not only get no benefit (-1 being the same as -5), but be penalized in an opportunity cost sense because I was casting spells and using modals that ultimately did nothing.
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Nov 21, 2017 20:37
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25% seems like a decent value (though purely by gut instinct, I would have preferred 1/3). High enough that it's still optimal to try and match or exceed enemy AR, but low enough that being off by just one point won't cost you too much time. Does this mean the extra damage you get from very high Pen will also be reduced to 25%, or does that stay at 30%? rope kid posted:lol if you haven't played with a Beckoner yet. Drowning my enemies in skeletons was literally all I wanted from Deadfire.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:18
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That’s staying at +30% for now. But as you might have noticed in the screenshot I posted, that can be modded, too.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:25
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rope kid posted:That’s staying at +30% for now. But as you might have noticed in the screenshot I posted, that can be modded, too. in your screenshot am i correct in assuming both systems would be working at the same time? so if we wanted one or the other we would have to remove eg. the ratio multiplier threshold values
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Nov 21, 2017 22:35
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Boo at caving in to the casual blunderbuss crowd.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:48
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Yes. The damage reduction works off of flat difference. 1 point, 2 points, 3 points, etc. The bonus damage is based off of multipliers, so you need double the listed pen to get the bonus. We use that instead of a flat value because the flat value wouldn't scale well over 20 levels. You can just zero out or remove entries if you want to try one or the other.
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Nov 21, 2017 22:48
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rope kid posted:Yes. The damage reduction works off of flat difference. 1 point, 2 points, 3 points, etc. The bonus damage is based off of multipliers, so you need double the listed pen to get the bonus. We use that instead of a flat value because the flat value wouldn't scale well over 20 levels. Thank you so much for this, I’m really excited to fiddle with these numbers a bunch.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:03
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Octo1 posted:Boo at caving in to the casual blunderbuss crowd. I'm not playing the beta (if I wanted to play an unpolished buggy incomplete Obsidian game I would just buy it when it comes out! Lol!) but it seems like the pen system would result in "no-brainer" weapons, like if you have two weapons and one is higher pen why would you ever pick the other one?
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Nov 21, 2017 23:47
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2house2fly posted:I'm not playing the beta (if I wanted to play an unpolished buggy incomplete Obsidian game I would just buy it when it comes out! Lol!) but it seems like the pen system would result in "no-brainer" weapons, like if you have two weapons and one is higher pen why would you ever pick the other one? The high penetration weapons habe lower damage. Also enemies have different penetration thresholds for different damage types. Also different modals and riders
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Nov 21, 2017 23:50
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2house2fly posted:I'm not playing the beta (if I wanted to play an unpolished buggy incomplete Obsidian game I would just buy it when it comes out! Lol!) but it seems like the pen system would result in "no-brainer" weapons, like if you have two weapons and one is higher pen why would you ever pick the other one? Low pen weapons do more damage than high pen weapons.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:50
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2house2fly posted:I'm not playing the beta (if I wanted to play an unpolished buggy incomplete Obsidian game I would just buy it when it comes out! Lol!) but it seems like the pen system would result in "no-brainer" weapons, like if you have two weapons and one is higher pen why would you ever pick the other one? It *kinda* does but the new changes may ameliorate it a bit. Main thing is that the weapons with higher penetration tend to also have lower base damage, so against lower armor, low-pen weapons are better. Basically what you want to do is carry two weapons, one high-pen and one high-dps, and switch depending on the enemy you're facing or whether or not you've managed to land some armor debuffs on the enemy. Everyone gets two weapon proficiencies at start, so this isn't difficult, but it does require a bit of planning.
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Nov 21, 2017 23:55
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Someone sim me a Ranger who swaps between Arquebus and dual pistols tia. Also we need to figure out what the best animal companion is this time around. I hope the Lion is actually worth a drat 
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Nov 21, 2017 23:57
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Zore posted:Someone sim me a Ranger who swaps between Arquebus and dual pistols tia. Lions seem better now that they have higher action speed, and on the other hand wolves seem to have been nerfed a bit in that they have an additive damage bonus instead of higher base damage that they had in PoE1.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:04
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itumaak is best animal companion. but its true we need to figure out who is the best animal companion in poe 2.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:07
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Iretep posted:itumaak is best animal companion. but its true we need to figure out who is the best animal companion in poe 2. The bird is a strong contender. It has a powerful hopping game.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:11
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Obviously it will be the bird The bear companion seems pretty cool but I'm not sure how to find his armor rating; his stats are decent. fake edit: looking at combat log he has a AR of 8 at level 5 which is pretty good
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Nov 22, 2017 00:14
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POE1 - stupid question - is there a console command or something, ala BG that will let you kill whatever? I'm going to go back to my save to try and hammer out the game but my last save was on path of the damned, inside the enemy camp fighting two massive golem things, and my party just did not have the raw stamina to take out both. I could get both down to badly wounded but couldn't finish them off.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:16
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tithin posted:POE1 - stupid question - is there a console command or something, ala BG that will let you kill whatever? Idk if it has a kill-command, but IEmod will let you toggle PoD on and off.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:19
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Hey Josh under the new combined system will Devoted get talents at levels after 1? If so this seems like a significant buff to that subclass?
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Nov 22, 2017 00:23
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Does anyone happen to have a link to the quick summary of how to reach zero recovery with a given weapon/armor combination through buffs, durgan, etc? I remember there used to be a really handy, simple reference post, but Google is not finding it.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:30
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https://naijaro.github.io/poe-speed-calculator/
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Nov 22, 2017 00:32
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Anno posted:Hey Josh under the new combined system will Devoted get talents at levels after 1? If so this seems like a significant buff to that subclass?
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Nov 22, 2017 00:47
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Zore posted:Someone sim me a Ranger who swaps between Arquebus and dual pistols tia. Tried this briefly: Seemed...alright? I used the sharpshooter subclass figuring the increased Pen at close range would be helpful for the pistols. Pistols notably don't get the -10def penalty the other two weapons do which I thought was neat. I also haven't tried doing an off-hand pistol yet because I suspect that the reload in cqc would be bad.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:59
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Basically what you want to do is carry two weapons, one high-pen and one high-dps, and switch depending on the enemy you're facing or whether or not you've managed to land some armor debuffs on the enemy. Everyone gets two weapon proficiencies at start, so this isn't difficult, but it does require a bit of planning. This seems like an uninteresting bit of faff to me, unless there's more going on than just damage. If you have two slots, two proficiencies, two weapons, and one will always deal more damage, that's a Non Decision that the computer can make for you. If there are other considerations at work that make it a meaningful tactical choice that's a different matter.
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Nov 22, 2017 01:04
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victrix posted:This seems like an uninteresting bit of faff to me, unless there's more going on than just damage. Yeah that's a statement that applies to penetration and damage in a vacuum, ignoring every other facet of the weapon, i.e. each weapon type has a modal ability, there's more than two damage types they can have, unique weapon enchantments, etc.
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Nov 22, 2017 01:12
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