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OAquinas posted:...actually, now that I think about it I need to reread to see if we ever actually see Renarin absorb/glow/use stormlight. didn't he open gem archive drawers with stormlight in front of the Kohlin gals?
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Nov 22, 2017 20:56
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re: the renarin questionOathbringer spoilers posted:
this is actually a really weird passage because renarin doesn't really DO anything as far as we can tell, so is it some weird void-Illumination thing or did the thunderclast just die off by coincidence at the same time? Alternatively, after re-reading Shallan chapters from past books, does that ellipsis mean we missed something here?
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Nov 22, 2017 21:00
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How I imagine Nale speaking the fifth ideal of the Skybreakers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvJiYrRcfQo
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Nov 22, 2017 22:39
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ekeog posted:this definitely happens when he is fighting the thunderclast and getting splatted and healing constantly He heals, obviously. But normally there's a 'glowing x' around whatever is being done with stormlight--even holding it makes you all white smokey-glowy. The question is, is he some sort of hybrid that you might think results from a regular spren corrupted to Odium, or is he drawing voidlight or what have you? Shallan frequently draws in and exhales glowing light Kaladin glows so much he's a saiyan Dalinar 'paints' with glowing stormlight and sucks in light Malata has been seen to suck in light Jasnah glows a bit and ElseCalls with a glowing barrier Renarin...says he's a Truthwatcher. And heals. I think the 'small drawers with message gems' opening describes a wave of stormlight opening them, but outside that I can't recall the glowing description applying to him. I may have missed it in the 1240 page behemoth, but his powers are described operationally "he healed them" and not descriptively. Just a curious exception to the usual Radiant descriptors. Edit: OK, that passage makes it clearer, thanks. Figured I just missed a few things--probably more due to Renarin being a background character than a focus one.
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Nov 22, 2017 23:27
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I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with renarin and venli. They're going to be a bridge of some kind between surge and void binding. I'm really interested to know about what happens when someone swears their Fifth Ideal. We have a good idea of what they get with the Fourth (or maybe it was confirmed in a WoB?), and the higher the Ideal the few who will have sworn in it their respective orders.
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Nov 23, 2017 00:15
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Evil Fluffy posted:I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with renarin and venli. They're going to be a bridge of some kind between surge and void binding. Unite them We know that Dalinar united parts of Honor's pieces but there's oh so much more that he has to Unite. I definitely see Renarin and Venli becoming a United thing. Maybe they'll Unite in more than one ways to make the "Voidbringers" merge into the actual original owners of the planet? Book XXX Renarin get's his groove.
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Nov 23, 2017 05:21
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Langolas posted:Unite them That'd make sense. He could then begin that process by bonding with sja-anat or possibly the now-captured nergaoul when he speaks the Fourth Ideal? Speaking the Third Ideal let him link all 3 realms and he can now provide Stormlight at will (though it's not easy (yet?)) and he can also overcharge people with Stormlight as he does for Kaladin. Speaking the Fourth Ideal might give him the means to forge a bond with the Unmade. Considering that sja-anat can corrupt/change things I could only imagine what would happen to The Thrill if sja-anat was able to do something similar to nergaoul.
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Nov 23, 2017 05:34
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Unmade speculation: Any theories as to why there are only 9 unmade? Early on in Oathbringer I did wonder if they were somehow linked to, or shadows of, the Heralds. Nine out of ten Heralds have cracked under torture in Damnation, and there are nine Unmade. When did the Unmade first start turning up? Progressively turning up during each desolation until there was nine, or all at once? But now, Taln has given in to Odium's torture so there might be a tenth Unmade on the horizon.
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Nov 23, 2017 09:00
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Lobsterpillar posted:Unmade speculation: Any theories as to why there are only 9 unmade? Early on in Oathbringer I did wonder if they were somehow linked to, or shadows of, the Heralds. Nine out of ten Heralds have cracked under torture in Damnation, and there are nine Unmade. When did the Unmade first start turning up? Progressively turning up during each desolation until there was nine, or all at once? But now, Taln has given in to Odium's torture so there might be a tenth Unmade on the horizon. There's a WoB related to that if you are curious: quote:Argent (paraphrased) Personally, I think the number is actually not that significant, except that some shards seem to have a connection to certain numbers. It's 16 for Preservation, 10 for Honor and 9 for Odium. Besides, even in Renarin's visions, Dalinar only had nine shadows, not ten. And being some twisted reflections of the Heralds doesn't really fit with their description. They were made and then unmade, not corrupted from something.
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Nov 23, 2017 09:16
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Finished this last night, pretty good although I'd say it was the weakest of the series so far. I realized about 2/3 of the way through how much Sanderson overuses italics to emphasize random verbs or nouns and for the rest of the book it was like nails on a chalkboard every time I saw it, which was about once every 2-3 pages. The most egregious one that sticks out in my mind was when Szeth was fighting the convict and the convict dropped his knife to try to grab Nightblood.
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Nov 23, 2017 18:52
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Astrognome posted:Finished this last night, pretty good although I'd say it was the weakest of the series so far. I realized about 2/3 of the way through how much Sanderson overuses italics to emphasize random verbs or nouns and for the rest of the book it was like nails on a chalkboard every time I saw it, which was about once every 2-3 pages. The most egregious one that sticks out in my mind was when Szeth was fighting the convict and the convict dropped his knife to try to grab Nightblood. Interesting, that exact thing has driven me up the wall in other books but I didn't even notice it here.
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Nov 23, 2017 18:55
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Astrognome posted:Finished this last night, pretty good although I'd say it was the weakest of the series so far. I realized about 2/3 of the way through how much Sanderson overuses italics to emphasize random verbs or nouns and for the rest of the book it was like nails on a chalkboard every time I saw it, which was about once every 2-3 pages. The most egregious one that sticks out in my mind was when Szeth was fighting the convict and the convict dropped his knife to try to grab Nightblood. I think, when he's writing, that Brandon is internally narrating with the voiceover of the Audible guy who always reads his books. The italics in Stormlight seem to replicate that guy's use of put pregnant pauses or heavy emphasis in the Mistborn audiobooks. It's like Brandon is using italics as audiobook performance cues. It actually isn't bothering me because I'm half reading, half listening to Cosmere books, so my internal narration is already the audiobook guy.
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Nov 23, 2017 19:59
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Something I haven't seen get much mention is the fact that Dalinar is offered Nightblood by the Nightwatcher, among the various boons she's suggesting to him.
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Nov 24, 2017 19:18
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Rereading Way of Kings and it's still as depressing as I remember from the last time.
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Nov 24, 2017 19:58
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Astrognome posted:Finished this last night, pretty good although I'd say it was the weakest of the series so far. I agree with this; weakest of the three, and by a fair margin at that. It's still a good book, but it's not up to the greatness of the other two. I think I feel this way because much of the book is setup, and much of what's left is exposition. The remaining major events are very evenly spaced out and don't really give that feeling of climax/denouement until the avalanche in the last 15-20% of the book. I spent a very big chunk of the book going "come on, come on, where is something awesome gonna happen?" The big exception is the escape from Kholinar, which was pretty drat good, and without which the book would be a total drag. Sanderson hasn't had a book this back-loaded in years, and while he can get away with it in a 400-page novel, it's something else entirely in a 1200-page tome. But all that said, there is still a lot to talk about! Azure is totally Vivenna. She has the royal locks, gave up ruling, knows Zahel (who is Vasher). There's no one else it could be. I did not see Elhokar's death coming. At all. I thought he was finally getting his poo poo together (and he was). loving Moash. And gently caress Wit for bonding Elhokar's spren, too! Jasnah as queen is going to be hilarious(ly effective). I mean, god drat that woman doesn't know how to fail. Her casual way of just wrecking face during the final battle had me grinning. Jasnah owns.
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Nov 25, 2017 00:20
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Potato Salad posted:I think, when he's writing, that Brandon is internally narrating with the voiceover of the Audible guy who always reads his books. The italics in Stormlight seem to replicate that guy's use of put pregnant pauses or heavy emphasis in the Mistborn audiobooks. I could see that, I tend to write like I speak as well. And I'm sure that it wasn't as bad as I thought, it was just that after I noticed it the first time I couldn't stop noticing for the rest of the book. ConfusedUs posted:Jasnah as queen is going to be hilarious(ly effective). I mean, god drat that woman doesn't know how to fail. Her casual way of just wrecking face during the final battle had me grinning. Jasnah owns. I didn't see this coming either. For some reason when they were trying to figure out who would replace the king, my mind went immediately to Sebarial (sp?). Which would also have been hilarious, although he didn't have any sensible claim to the throne.
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Nov 25, 2017 02:12
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Astrognome posted:I didn't see this coming either. For some reason when they were trying to figure out who would replace the king, my mind went immediately to Sebarial (sp?). Which would also have been hilarious, although he didn't have any sensible claim to the throne. I actually made that immediate assumption too. Since Shallan has been spending so much time with Sebarial, and is the one making the suggestion after always commenting on how competent he is behind his act. The real surprise was even better.
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Nov 25, 2017 02:40
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She's going to be peevish about the whole inconvenience of it the entire time, as well.
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Nov 25, 2017 03:45
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ConfusedUs posted:I agree with this; weakest of the three, and by a fair margin at that. It's still a good book, but it's not up to the greatness of the other two. Part 3 Spoilers: Elohkar's death actually caught me off guard. Dying just as he was saying The First Ideal was tragic.
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Nov 25, 2017 04:09
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M_Gargantua posted:I actually made that immediate assumption too. Since Shallan has been spending so much time with Sebarial, and is the one making the suggestion after always commenting on how competent he is behind his act. The real surprise was even better. Funny, I did too, and I think it was because that passage was written from his point of view, possibly deliberately as a red herring.
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Nov 25, 2017 05:27
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Gorefiend posted:Part 3 Spoilers:
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Nov 25, 2017 20:44
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My main hope for Stones Unhallowed, whenever it comes out (probably 2020?), is that Sanderson paces the book better. Oathbringer was a good book overall but I'd expected better pacing from Sanderson by now.Lobsterpillar posted:Funny, I did too, and I think it was because that passage was written from his point of view, possibly deliberately as a red herring. I though it was really obvious she was going to suggest Jasnah. The way the argument was going it was clear that the kind of take-no-poo poo leader who also knew how to deal with other countries could only be Jasnah, especially after the way he essay was received early on and the fact that other countries have a lot of respect for her. Sebarial might be smarter than he lets on but he'd still be a god awful leader and most people would just think he's Dalinar's puppet. Nobody who knows anything about her is going to think that of Jasnah. Plus she's sister and daughter to the two previous kings, and word of her exploits in the Thaylen City battle would've spread among the Alethi like wildfire. No highprince is going to (openly) challenge having a queen who is also a Knight Radiant with her level of power and pretty much every Alethi woman who isn't completely subservient is going to secretly think "hell yes a woman ruler" except Ialai but she has her own problems to deal with after her own forces turned traitor.
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Nov 25, 2017 21:09
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Evil Fluffy posted:That'd make sense. He could then begin that process by bonding with sja-anat or possibly the now-captured nergaoul when he speaks the Fourth Ideal? Speaking the Third Ideal let him link all 3 realms and he can now provide Stormlight at will (though it's not easy (yet?)) and he can also overcharge people with Stormlight as he does for Kaladin. Speaking the Fourth Ideal might give him the means to forge a bond with the Unmade. Considering that sja-anat can corrupt/change things I could only imagine what would happen to The Thrill if sja-anat was able to do something similar to nergaoul. I like your thoughts on Dalinar hoping in with Sja-anat and bringing everything together that way. Although my original post was to jokingly point that Renarin and the Parshendi Surgebinder should start bumping uglies to unite humans and pershandi into one race :taylor: Thinking about it though, it would be amazing if Dalinar actually didn't bring the unmade into things with sja anat and "corrupt" aka change everything to essentially be one. Maybe the reason Hoid is on Roshar is to watch and figure out a way that they can combine 3 shards together to look for reforming the 16. Or a way he can take a large chunk of a splintered shards power without reforming the full shard, I love trying to figure out why Hoid is on a particular planet. A lot of people are hating on the Sanderson dump, but honestly this book is my favorite of the 3. Straight out of the gates I felt like I was being overloaded with info we've been theorizing about for years. Then he took all of these pieces from the first 4 sections and slammed them into place which just made me go OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Giving myself a break until after Christmas before I start my re-read. This book made me eager for Wax+Wayne's final book to see how we can tie some more concepts together for the Cosmere. I'm getting a big impression we're going to see more Mistborn elements bleeding into Roshar.
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Nov 25, 2017 21:17
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Langolas posted:I like your thoughts on Dalinar hoping in with Sja-anat and bringing everything together that way. Although my original post was to jokingly point that Renarin and the Parshendi Surgebinder should start bumping uglies to unite humans and pershandi into one race :taylor: that's what horneaters are
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Nov 25, 2017 21:21
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Evil Fluffy posted:My main hope for Stones Unhallowed, whenever it comes out (probably 2020?), is that Sanderson paces the book better. Oathbringer was a good book overall but I'd expected better pacing from Sanderson by now. Jasnah is awesome, but I'm frustrated that she seems to be sandbagging, big time. Apparently she's sworn the Fourth Ideal already, or at the very least knows where shardplate comes from and how it works. She has been a Radiant longer (apparently much longer) than Kaladin, the poster child for the power of the Radiants, and seems much more powerful. She seems to know a lot about what's going on, in general, while Dalinar and Shallan are struggling to piece together facts from incomplete visions and publicly available books. As far a storytelling goes, it makes a better story to have the POV characters discover things about the world at the same pace as the reader, but c'mon Sanderson, give us some Jasnah laying down the law.
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Nov 25, 2017 21:22
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Infinite Karma posted:Jasnah is awesome, but I'm frustrated that she seems to be sandbagging, big time. Apparently she's sworn the Fourth Ideal already, or at the very least knows where shardplate comes from and how it works. She has been a Radiant longer (apparently much longer) than Kaladin, the poster child for the power of the Radiants, and seems much more powerful. She seems to know a lot about what's going on, in general, while Dalinar and Shallan are struggling to piece together facts from incomplete visions and publicly available books. As far a storytelling goes, it makes a better story to have the POV characters discover things about the world at the same pace as the reader, but c'mon Sanderson, give us some Jasnah laying down the law. Yeah I think the Jasnah-already-has-shardplate theory is pretty convincing and would fit the trend of her being way ahead of everyone else yet not just explaining what she knows
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Nov 25, 2017 22:03
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Tunicate posted:that's what horneaters are Oh gently caress me sideways it all makes sense now.
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Nov 26, 2017 00:39
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From chapter 37 when Rock is cooking while the others practicequote:As he worked, hands deep within the dough, he could hear his mother’s humming. Her careful instructions. Kaladin was wrong; Lunamor hadn’t become a cook. He’d always been one, since he could toddle up the stepstool to the counter and stick his fingers in the sticky dough. Yes, he’d once trained with a bow. But soldiers needed to eat, and nuatoma guards each did several jobs, even guards with his particular heritage and blessings.
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Nov 26, 2017 01:39
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Langolas posted:I like your thoughts on Dalinar hoping in with Sja-anat and bringing everything together that way. Although my original post was to jokingly point that Renarin and the Parshendi Surgebinder should start bumping uglies to unite humans and pershandi into one race :taylor: I'm kinda annoyed that Rlain seemed to disappear after the Bridge Four team started training, and everything with the Parshendi is all Venli all the time. Though they basically ignored him and treat him like he's not there as far as Windrunner training goes so either Kaladin and Teft need to get their poo poo in order or I imagine Rlain's going to leave, possibly in a less-than-friendly fashion. Unless Venli shows up on their doorstep, at which point we'll see a reckoning between those two. Hoid's got some kind of direct tie to Adonalsium. He's collecting powers from every shard when he can safely do so and I imagine it's because he's playing the longest game he can in trying to get it reforged. Alternately, he's trying to collect all of the powers to either try and become a shard, or become a non-shard version of adonalsium but even that would just seem like a means to an end. We know he's ageless and hard to kill too, considering things like shardblades don't concern him. I'm guessing we won't get more than scraps and teases until Dragonsteel is eventually written. I suspect characters from Wax and Wayne are going to show up in Stormlight's later books since that series takes place during Stormlight's planned timeskip, and IIRC there was a WoB that mentioned Odium has plans for dealing with Harmony since he can't win a direct confrontation... Some Stormlight/Mistborn/Alloy(Bands) spoilers and theorizing: We've already seen Odium's plans in action for dealing with Harmony. When Wax dies and speaks with Harmony he is given a view of Scadrial. Beyond his view of Scadrial "hung a haze of red. All around, pressing in upon the world. He could feel it choking him, a miasma of dread and destruction." (though Harmony mentions it being a crude representation). As an interesting and probably not-entirely-coincidental aside: What Wax sees sounds like a massive version of Nergaoul. (e: Also, there are the figures that have glowing red eyes) Odium made it clear in Oathbringer that the red haze that cloud's someone's vision is his doing, and whether that red haze that Harmony shows Wax is Trell or something else, Odium's got a hand in it. If for no other reason than to keep Harmony occupied in just the right way that he can't sweep aside the problem due to his conflicting nature until he can actually make a real strike against Harmony with the advantage he'd need to win that fight. We know that Harmony and Hoid have exchanged words, and Harmony wants Hoid to reach out to his agents (the kandra and not human followers, I'd imagine). So once things are taken care of in the final Wax and Wayne book I'd say there's good odds that someone, or multiple someones, from that group is going to end up going to Roshar on Harmony's urging. I'm just really hoping it includes Wayne for a potential Lopen/Wayne encounter. Infinite Karma posted:Jasnah is awesome, but I'm frustrated that she seems to be sandbagging, big time. Apparently she's sworn the Fourth Ideal already, or at the very least knows where shardplate comes from and how it works. She has been a Radiant longer (apparently much longer) than Kaladin, the poster child for the power of the Radiants, and seems much more powerful. She seems to know a lot about what's going on, in general, while Dalinar and Shallan are struggling to piece together facts from incomplete visions and publicly available books. As far a storytelling goes, it makes a better story to have the POV characters discover things about the world at the same pace as the reader, but c'mon Sanderson, give us some Jasnah laying down the law. I think Kaladin, Dalinar, and possibly others, know where Shardplate comes from as well. At the very least, Dalinar knows because he asked the Stormfather and was told that he had to speak the Words first. Dalinar isn't an idiot (except when it comes to dealing with Taravangian) and would be able to put 2 and 2 together at that point. Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 02:03
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Well, they probably know it's oath-related, but maybe not exactly where it comes from. We get a nice outside perspective of all the shenanigans that goes on with them, so the gloryspren and windspren and creationspren orgies that go on around the Radiants when they do their thing are more pronounced and obvious. I'm sure once someone gets theirs it'll be a 'duh' moment for them, and Shallan's analytical enough to maybe be able to piece it together on her own even without that. Jasnah knows exactly how it works already, of course. Whereas Kaladin will probably be wearing his for an hour before he notices.
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Nov 26, 2017 02:46
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Lopen gets shardplate first, but only one one arm.
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Nov 26, 2017 09:18
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Langolas posted:Oh gently caress me sideways it all makes sense now. I think this is more common than that, though that's probably the most obvious example. Another one I suspect: Herdazians - with their weird rock hard nails.
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Nov 26, 2017 11:20
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Jasnah can't really give the other characters information to short circuit the demands of their progression. It wouldn't help. Elhokar knew what was necessary but still didn't end up doing the first oath until it was too late . Furthermore, remember, "journey before destination".
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Nov 26, 2017 15:51
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Tunicate posted:Lopen gets shardplate first, but only one one arm. Second arm is located near his crotch to accommodate his massive balls.
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Nov 26, 2017 17:05
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Tunicate posted:Lopen gets shardplate first, but only one one arm. I'd be perfectly ok with seeing a shardplate version of the Arm of Valor. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Jasnah can't really give the other characters information to short circuit the demands of their progression. It wouldn't help. Elhokar knew what was necessary but still didn't end up doing the first oath until it was too late . Looking at the Skybreakers, their initiates knew about the other ideals and when asked directly for details, one of them even told Szeth about the 3rd, 4th, and 5th, including that it'd been centuries since anyone swore the 5th ideal (though they didn't tell him the Words). Jasnah might not know the Words for other orders but even if she did it wouldn't help since they know the words to say when it's time. Most importantly: Lopen had spoken the Second Ideal at some point but it it wasn't accepted until he said it later while comforting the one-armed soldier he visited after the battle in Thaylen City. He even reacts with a "hey what the hell, I said it before and you didn't let it count then but now you accept it? You're a dick" when the Words are finally accepted. It will be interesting to see what Skar and Drehy's spren are like. Teft's seems to be more like Syl, while Lopen's is... what you'd expect from a spren that bonds to Lopen.
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Nov 26, 2017 19:53
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There's also that Jasnah is currently the only Elsecaller and all the ideals are completely different between orders--like Shallan doesn't even have ideals/oaths to swear. Jasnah gave Shallan tutellage in surgebinding soulcasting and that is basically as much as can be expected.
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Nov 26, 2017 22:36
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So are the Fused really the souls of ancient Parshmen, or are they actually the souls of the original Voidbringers/humans?
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Nov 26, 2017 22:39
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NecroMonster posted:So are the Fused really the souls of ancient Parshmen, or are they actually the souls of the original Voidbringers/humans? i don't think we have any reason to believe that the Fused aren't Parshendi - it seems like it's the Unmade who are former humans. i wouldn't be surprised if you were right that they are some of his generals from the previous planet or something
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Nov 26, 2017 22:49
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man finally the love triangle bs finished
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Nov 27, 2017 00:20
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One thing that keeps nagging at me about the Stormlight Archives and Honor in specific is that, while typically in fiction swearing an Oath(making a pact, signing a contract) is a way of gaining power, usually directly from the guarantors of the contract, breaking an Oath usually gives the entity granting the contract quite a lot of power over the one who broke the thing. But we've seen no sign, as of yet, that the guarantors seem to be getting anything. Hell, in the real world breaking a contract usually comes with some sort of penalty.
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Nov 27, 2017 01:56
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