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MOVIE MAJICK posted:What's next on the block for marvel netflix? Because they want to shut their brains and feels off and watch shiny shooty actionmans! Not because they want to stop and think and feel sorry for what war can do to otherwise good men.
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Nov 29, 2017 05:41
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SHOAH NUFF posted:Growing up there were a quite few fights I had with my parents where I was throwing a real hard tantrum one minute and then hugging them while tearing up the next. They, were very understanding and never held a Ka Bar to my neck in the interim but still, I think a lot little kids do that My wife's usually in a much better mood after our domestic disputes. (this is a joke) About critical reception, there's probably going to be some anti-gun backlash. Even someone in this thread said it made them angry.
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Nov 29, 2017 05:47
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cosmicjim posted:As for the media thinking frank is on the bombing.... The first part is true, the rest is fan wank conjecture.
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Nov 29, 2017 09:28
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warcrimes posted:The first part is true, the rest is fan wank conjecture. Yep. But do you think Curtis snitched?
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Nov 29, 2017 13:33
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I can see why they think it glorifies guns and paints Frank as a good guy, especially since the "anti-gun" senator is such a lovely strawman.
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Nov 29, 2017 14:15
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cosmicjim posted:Yep. But do you think Curtis snitched? I don't think Curtis was in much condition to really be talking to anyone after the cops found him, my guess being that he was probably under the knife to fix internal bleeding and stitch him up while the Frank was going after Lewis, so that's why when the anti-gun politician was fingering Frank as an accomplice they were taking him at face value because it's he-said-she-said with Anvil probably backing up the congressman's story to make Frank look as lovely as possible. The more poignant question would be why didn't the cops immediately arrest Karen for Obstruction/Aiding and Embedding when she basically admitted to faking the last hostage situation to get Frank out of the building?
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Nov 29, 2017 14:15
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DeathSandwich posted:The more poignant question would be why didn't the cops immediately arrest Karen for Obstruction/Aiding and Embedding when she basically admitted to faking the last hostage situation to get Frank out of the building? Because the detective she told it to was a friend and chose not to pursue that further.
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Nov 29, 2017 15:13
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It’s probably hard to be a woke Millenial internet TV critic and have to figure out how to say “the show about the angry white soldier shooting all of his problems is just dramatically better written and acted than any of the other multi-cultural/ethnic/feminist vehicles in the same production house” If the only thing the negative reviews can come up with is “this is the wrong time for Punisher” then they have absolutely fundamentally failed at their only job.
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Nov 29, 2017 15:29
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Bust Rodd posted:It’s probably hard to be a woke Millenial internet TV critic and have to figure out how to say “the show about the angry white soldier shooting all of his problems is just dramatically better written and acted than any of the other multi-cultural/ethnic/feminist vehicles in the same production house” On the other hand, the show is very woke: Afghanistan was a disastrous war fought for basically no reason, the government praises soldiers when they're off fighting wars then ignores and reviles them when they come home, no amount of shooting people is going to make Frank "better" and he's unequivocally a broken person, the MAGA gun nut vet is a fraud, and the domestic terrorist suicide bomber is a 2nd Amendment fanatic young white dude. It's an incredibly woke show in a very white dude sort of way.
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Nov 29, 2017 15:33
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MOVIE MAJICK posted:What's next on the block for marvel netflix?
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Nov 29, 2017 15:36
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Yeah for reference can anyone find me a link to any review that specifically says this wasn’t as good as Defenders so I can troll the hot gently caress out of the comment section?
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Nov 29, 2017 15:59
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Cythereal posted:On the other hand, the show is very woke: Afghanistan was a disastrous war fought for basically no reason, the government praises soldiers when they're off fighting wars then ignores and reviles them when they come home, no amount of shooting people is going to make Frank "better" and he's unequivocally a broken person, the MAGA gun nut vet is a fraud, and the domestic terrorist suicide bomber is a 2nd Amendment fanatic young white dude. O'Connor as an Alex Jones Cultist and Lewis' trauma turning him basically Soverign Citizen were both on-point. The backdrop of "Veterens coming back and never really feeling at home" is something echoed in Lewis but also Frank himself, considering the flashback fight he had with his wife. They both left their humanity in the middle east and they both at some point were contemplating going back because they didn't know how to function at home without it. That actually strikes rather close to home with a friend of mine who basically went through Lewis' arc (minus the snapping, the bombs, and the murder) of coming back from war, going to support groups, trying to join a PMC, bouncing off that, and being kind of lost and hopeless. Thankfully in my friend's case, he was able to pull himself out of his funk and is fairly successful now, but he still can't drink without having intense flashbacks.
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Nov 29, 2017 17:41
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DeathSandwich posted:O'Connor as an Alex Jones Cultist and Lewis' trauma turning him basically Soverign Citizen were both on-point. The backdrop of "Veterens coming back and never really feeling at home" is something echoed in Lewis but also Frank himself, considering the flashback fight he had with his wife. They both left their humanity in the middle east and they both at some point were contemplating going back because they didn't know how to function at home without it. That actually strikes rather close to home with a friend of mine who basically went through Lewis' arc (minus the snapping, the bombs, and the murder) of coming back from war, going to support groups, trying to join a PMC, bouncing off that, and being kind of lost and hopeless. Thankfully in my friend's case, he was able to pull himself out of his funk and is fairly successful now, but he still can't drink without having intense flashbacks. Yeah, I think most reviewers who seem to miss the emotional heart of this show and how the writers knew exactly what they were aiming for are reviewers who aren't familiar with the issues and kinds of people that Punisher examines. The world of trauma and issues surrounding veterans is not one that's penetrated the popular cultural consciousness in the Western world, and I applaud Punisher a great deal for openly making a show about those issues. I've noticed that reviewers who do know someone who's gone through anything like that will always bring it up and praise the show for its depiction and handling of those issues and people.
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Nov 29, 2017 18:04
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Most people actually just criticized the show for being slow-going (which it was through the first nine episodes) and have nothing coherent to say about gun control but being very eager to say it. I can't imagine what they'd have thought if they did thirteen episodes of Punisher War Zone.
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Nov 29, 2017 18:32
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I think the difference in pacing is the payoff. Other MCU shows have big buildups to shorty sloppy fights and deaths no one cares about. This show has a much higher quality in action and delivery I think than the others
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Nov 29, 2017 18:57
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I imagine a lot of reviewers got to the third act having already written "it's boring" in their notes.
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Nov 29, 2017 19:18
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The most wild thing about The Punisher and critics is that it is from the get-go very clearly not written for your stereotypical Punisher audience of white bike cops with skull tattoos going around Punishin' people for jaywalking. It drills incredibly deep into what a farce modern American jingoism is and how the Forever War is an all-consuming scam for the benefit of private profit and the absolute worst people imaginable that absolutely eats people alive and spits them out with nowhere to go. If anything, it has a lot more to say than anything else Marvel has done.
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Nov 29, 2017 20:54
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Bust Rodd posted:I think the difference in pacing is the payoff. Yeah, the payoff is very good and the slow/boring parts exist as a great counterweight to the manic (in a good way) action scenes. Even when Frank or Medani aren't blasting up warehouses, it feels very much like the things that are happening are actually building towards something. Frank himself is an interesting and compelling person during the less action packed times, unlike the slow parts of say, Iron Fist or the back half of Daredevil S2. I can easily forgive the amount of abuse Frank can take, patch himself up in his warehouse, and walk off because the 1) action scenes are so well done I want to see what they can do next 2) It shows that he's not a terminator out to gank The action scenes were very good, but I wouldn't have wanted the series to be nothing but those action scenes back to back. Frank is very good at committing killocide (and not much else) and it's interesting to see him in situations where he's out of his element. Having the plot boil down to nothing but "Then Punisher killed these guys, and then he killed THESE guys, and then he gutted that guy like a fish." would have been tiring. I absolutely loved that he was fighting these shadowy corrupt CIA/Mercenary guys rather than traditional gangsters. Castle is very tied into his past as essentially a special forces/CIA assassin and it's (assumedly) much harder to disassemble a shadowy government conspiracy one bullet at a time than another mob/gangster family, and it gives the shadowy conspiracy time to gently caress with him while he's trying to figure stuff out.
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Nov 29, 2017 20:56
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DeathSandwich posted:Obstruction/Aiding and Embedding Aiding and abetting. Not embedding. This drives me nuts, sorry. The Frank Vs CIA/Mercs thing is a good point, and I was wary at first because it was a pretty big shift from how the character has operated in the past outside of a MAX arc or two, but I liked it a lot. It avoided the problems that the other series have had, where it's all self-moralizing and finding reasons not to go after the villain directly, instead of making progress towards the end goal slowly but steadily.
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Nov 29, 2017 21:02
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I just realized that Micro's troubled son came around really quickly. I thought he was gonna begin starting fires or torturing animals or some poo poo but whatever Frank did seemed to straighten him right out and the subplot just vanished. Probably for the better really.
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Nov 29, 2017 21:27
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BiggerBoat posted:I just realized that Micro's troubled son came around really quickly. I thought he was gonna begin starting fires or torturing animals or some poo poo but whatever Frank did seemed to straighten him right out and the subplot just vanished. Scare em straight does occasionally work. I'd absolutely believe that the motherfucking Punisher pulling that on a kid would straighten him out. Probably gave him trauma that won't be diagnosed until college, but still.
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Nov 29, 2017 21:29
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On the other hand, I was expecting everyone to be way more furious at David and not forgive him even at the final episode. Also, the weakest part of this show is the intro.
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Nov 29, 2017 21:30
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It just occurred to me that the way the MCU portrays Frank Castle bites a lot off Lucas Hood from Banshee. (Not that I'm complaining, because Hood is a loving awesome character, but still.)
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Nov 29, 2017 21:51
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The Punisher had a near-perfect ending and I hope they don't make another season
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Nov 29, 2017 22:05
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The punisher needs to master the art of walking all casually with a silenced pistol. Once you get that thing you apparently turn into topper harley from hot shots. I knew realistic violence went out the window after the sixth or seventh round the punisher ate, but plot armor is still lazy as gently caress
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Nov 29, 2017 22:14
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Did anyone else think Micro's son was being molested and that's why he was acting out? No?...just me then....
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Nov 29, 2017 22:14
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Yeah it certainly had nothing to do with his dad getting "murdered" by the feds
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Nov 29, 2017 22:22
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Serf posted:The Punisher had a near-perfect ending and I hope they don't make another season Yeah, as much as I dig Bernthal in the role I would still like this to be a one and done. The ending is bittersweet yet oddly hopeful and I like the idea of Frank's ending being him sitting there in a support group finally willing to start opening up and dealing with his issues in a non-violent way. I'm pretty sure we're outside the spoiler window now, but just to be on the safe side. It's unlikely since they probably signed him to at least a two season deal, but still it would be nice.
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Nov 29, 2017 22:27
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, as much as I dig Bernthal in the role I would still like this to be a one and done. The ending is bittersweet yet oddly hopeful and I like the idea of Frank's ending being him sitting there in a support group finally willing to start opening up and dealing with his issues in a non-violent way. I'm pretty sure we're outside the spoiler window now, but just to be on the safe side. I could see a season two being about Frank and Curtis and going more into their history and something shady from Curtis' past. I doubt they follow Curtis' arc from the comics (Curtis knew Castle from 'nam in the comics, but after he came stateside he got mixed up with a crime lord and flees to Bolivia, Frank follows Curtis and throws him out a helicopter) but I could see there being some sort of shady issues that Curt and Frank need to work together to take care of. Or, alternatively, at the onset of Season 2 Frank is on the up and up and turning his life around when Curt gets killed, pulling his support structure out from under him and setting him back on a downward spiral.
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Nov 29, 2017 22:55
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Also, the fact that Curt was an amputee was cool. They even showed the whole process of putting on the leg, which is not something you see often. Although I can honestly say I've never gotten out of bed and used a crutch to get around. I usually just put the leg on in the dark or whatever.
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Nov 29, 2017 22:58
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As everyone else has said, The Punisher is one of the best Netflix Marvels. As other people have also said, it seems to emphasise that the less tied in with The Hand they are, the better they are. I knew from the beginning that them trying to tie it all together into a big universe thing would piss me off. I hope Jessica Jones 2 stays Jessica Jones and not "some story about The Hand but mostly JJ". I'm not sure after The Defenders though. JJs1 had just the right amount of crossover with DDs1, it basically just shared a few characters. Can't believe that The Defenders is ranking higher than The Punisher. Even after Luke Cage and DDs2 severely tempering my expectations, it was still a letdown. Luke Cage still feels like a massive missed opportunity, it started so well. Here's hoping he gets a second season. The other thing I think Marvel Netflix benefits from is strong villains. This ties into The Hand thing, but Kingpin and Kilgrave were both excellent. I don't think Jigsaw was as strong, but he was still good and effective for the story.
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Nov 30, 2017 00:11
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nomapple posted:As everyone else has said, The Punisher is one of the best Netflix Marvels. As other people have also said, it seems to emphasise that the less tied in with The Hand they are, the better they are. I knew from the beginning that them trying to tie it all together into a big universe thing would piss me off. I hope Jessica Jones 2 stays Jessica Jones and not "some story about The Hand but mostly JJ". I'm not sure after The Defenders though. JJs1 had just the right amount of crossover with DDs1, it basically just shared a few characters. Can't believe that The Defenders is ranking higher than The Punisher. Even after Luke Cage and DDs2 severely tempering my expectations, it was still a letdown. Luke Cage still feels like a massive missed opportunity, it started so well. Here's hoping he gets a second season. The other thing I think Marvel Netflix benefits from is strong villains. This ties into The Hand thing, but Kingpin and Kilgrave were both excellent. I don't think Jigsaw was as strong, but he was still good and effective for the story. I thought pretty boy was great. He was supposed to be pretty and trustworthy. I didn't realize who he was supposed to be until the end. Sorry for these spoilers, but seriously why are you reading this if you havent watched it. I think the test with him is can he pull off the transformation.
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Nov 30, 2017 00:33
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cosmicjim posted:I thought pretty boy was great. He was supposed to be pretty and trustworthy. I didn't realize who he was supposed to be until the end. Sorry for these spoilers, but seriously why are you reading this if you havent watched it. I think the test with him is can he pull off the transformation. Yeah this is pretty much what I was trying to say. He was written right/played it right for the show. And I agree. That's kind of why I want a second season of The Punisher despite agreeing with everyone who says it is quite a nice, self contained piece.
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Nov 30, 2017 00:45
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Serf posted:The Punisher had a near-perfect ending and I hope they don't make another season I want to agree because that ending was so unexpected and perfect, but I need more Bernthal Punisher in my life
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Nov 30, 2017 01:30
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Soothing Vapors posted:I want to agree because that ending was so unexpected and perfect, but I need more Bernthal Punisher in my life At least the carousel fight was dumb.
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Nov 30, 2017 01:45
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Dumb, but worth it for five uncomfortable minutes of Frank grating Billy's face like a fine cheese
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Nov 30, 2017 01:52
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Soothing Vapors posted:Dumb, but worth it for five uncomfortable minutes of Frank grating Billy's face like a fine cheese Literally the only time a marvel show has made me uncomfortable
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Nov 30, 2017 03:28
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Yeah that was fuckin brutal. And here I thought I'd seen Frank wreck someone in everyway possible, nope.
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Nov 30, 2017 03:31
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Yeah, that's a good contrast between the other Marvel Netflix shows where the final showdown is this big, triumphant moment where our pressed upon hero is having their signature heroic clash (and in Luke Cage's case, literally with a cheering audience in the background) where the good and the righteous triumph over evil. In the case of the Punisher, Russo getting his face destroyed in agonizing detail was probably one of the single most unpleasant things I've watched on TV this year and that's what makes the scene (and the show at large) work so well. It's not triumphant because Punisher is not a Triumphant hero, he's just a broken person doing a bad thing to a worse person.
DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 03:46
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DeathSandwich posted:Yeah, that's a good contrast between the other Marvel Netflix shows where the final showdown is this big, triumphant moment where our pressed upon hero is having their signature heroic clash (and in Luke Cage's case, literally with a cheering audience in the background) where the good and the righteous triumph over evil. In the case of the Punisher, Russo getting his face destroyed in agonizing detail was probably one of the single most unpleasant things I've watched on TV this year and that's what makes the scene (and the show at large) work so well. It's not triumphant because Punisher is not a Triumphant hero, he's just a broken person doing a bad thing to a worse person. I think it illustrates how badly of a betrayal it was. The level of betrayal was the only thing that could make frank do that instead of just putting someone down.
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Nov 30, 2017 04:41
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