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Endorph posted:also, yeah, that. and also there's the simple fact that no matter how much you value community and family, there are situations where your community or your family are toxic and you're better off cutting yourself off from them. Not to say that really applies to Persona 4, but like, making a blanket statement that any attempt to cut yourself off from those things is self-destructive is lol. I still love P4 and I can forgive its flaws in part due it to sort of being of its time. On the other hand, I have a feeling I really won't be very forgiving of 5 because its been nearly a decade since 4 came out and a lot has changed.
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Dec 2, 2017 04:37
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| # ? May 20, 2024 07:37 |
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  "Do you guys sell video games here?"  "We sell forbidden objects from places men fear to tread."  "We also sell Conception II!"  "I'm just looking for a JRPG that isn't Final Fantasy."  "Hm..."  "Perhaps..."  "This will please the gentleman."  "Take this game, but beware, it carries terrible anime."  "Ooh, that's bad."  "It also has a cool UI!"  "Ooh, that's good!"  "You can gently caress your high school teacher." "Ooh, that's bad." "But it's a counter-cultural game about tearing the rich and powerful down!" "Ooh, that's good." "However, it's ultimately a game made by old Japanese men that reinforces cultural values of conformity and changing the system from within slowly over time without rocking the boat. In this way it is a very conservative game, despite its pretenses of fighting the system."  "That's bad."  "Can I go now?"
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Dec 2, 2017 04:47
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Endorph posted:yes, believe it or not, there are japanese people who think persona sucks. like it's a popular series but it's a popular series in the west too, and hey, people in this thread are criticizing it I wasn't denying it, I wanted to avoid a conversation about cultures I'm not a part of without reading something from their perspective. I would love reading such an article. Endorph posted:also, yeah, that. and also there's the simple fact that no matter how much you value community and family, there are situations where your community or your family are toxic and you're better off cutting yourself off from them. Not to say that really applies to Persona 4, but like, making a blanket statement that any attempt to cut yourself off from those things is self-destructive is lol. And that's not the statement I'm making because P4 doesn't present a toxic atmosphere for its characters, Yosuke aside. Everyone's problems stem from their own self loathing. Stexils posted:people are criticizing the writing for deliberately constructing every scenario so that their individual feelings match up with what society wants, which wouldn't be the case with even slight changes. for example what if kanji was actually gay? it would be awful to suggest that he should stay in the closet forever to match with what his family or society wants. or what if yukiko actually didn't want to run the inn? should she devote her life to that because her family wants her to even if she's miserable, just so that the employees don't have to find another job? are you nothing but a slave to your community and family? Well no actually, you're the first person presenting this argument. You're not wrong, that the more extreme characters have convenient hooks, but I'd say the actual worse thing is the character's are fully supported in their decisions. Even if Kanji was gay his mother clearly supports him. Nobody at the inn resents Yukiko because their jobs hinge on her decisions. If it wasn't for the mystery there would be no stakes. And gating character growth behind optional events doesn't do things any good either.
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Dec 2, 2017 04:48
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hell, i laughed
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Dec 2, 2017 04:49
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wait what snowboard kids is atlus
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Dec 2, 2017 04:49
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Endorph posted:
lol
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Dec 2, 2017 04:50
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cheetah7071 posted:wait what snowboard kids is atlus They just published it
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Dec 2, 2017 04:51
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Endorph posted:
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Dec 2, 2017 05:29
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voted five
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Dec 2, 2017 05:51
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kirbysuperstar posted:voted five
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Dec 2, 2017 06:16
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snowboard kids owned
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Dec 2, 2017 06:32
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I'll raise your Snowboard Kids with the next best Atlus game:
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Dec 2, 2017 08:54
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corn in the bible posted:chie betrays her arc by becoming a cop, a job in which you use a gun and never do rad kicks Someone hasn't played Yakuza 4
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Dec 2, 2017 09:13
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Dec 2, 2017 09:23
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My main problem with Lin in Xenoblade Chronicles X constantly making jokes about eating their Nopon buddy was that his race has been driven to near extinction because the Prone have literally been hunting them for food. It's not a loving joke at that point. Lin's jokes are in incredibly poor taste, pun not intended.
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Dec 2, 2017 12:02
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Is there a reason why the PS4 version of Berseria seems to be on sale much less frequently than the Steam edition, other than "Playtation Store."
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Dec 2, 2017 12:55
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exquisite tea posted:Is there a reason why the PS4 version of Berseria seems to be on sale much less frequently than the Steam edition, other than "Playtation Store." you pretty much got it in 1.
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Dec 2, 2017 13:03
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Now this is the content I paid ten bucks for.
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Dec 2, 2017 13:04
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I finished Starcrawlers and the game feels like it ran out of content halfway through. The randomized dungeons were meh and I kinda wish the main story scaled well enough to just keep doing premade dungeons, since some of them were pretty clever. The hard limit of 5 active skills also means that after about 20 or so levels, you're not really putting points in skills that you'd use, but rather just getting skills to get passives. Some of the classes had some pretty clear ONE TRUE BUILD choices, although that could just be my biased perception, but I have no idea why you wouldn't get Ascendance as a Void Psyker or Psychic Barrier as a Force Psyker. Combat also got super tedious since most of it revolved around doing the same skills over and over again, such that each fight didn't really require me to be tactical about it, so it pretty much devolved into doing the same routine until things started to die. Which would be fine if fights were super quick, but they weren't. This seems pretty full of complaints, but I enjoyed it well enough. Just wish that there was more depth to it.
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Dec 2, 2017 14:22
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I've been playing Pandora's Tower on the Wii. It's actually really fun, and the waggle is fairly intuitive (it's not used much, just to quickly yank the chain). I towards the end of the game now, the Blacklight Tower (the Towers of Dawn and Dusk, but the notes refer to the locations together as Blacklight) and it's got a really cool gimmick, although the gimmick makes it harder to navigate than the other towers.
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Dec 2, 2017 14:53
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‘Why do Japanese RPGs always star teens? Because older folks couldn’t recover with just one night at the inn.’ -some random Japanese tweet on my timeline
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Dec 2, 2017 15:37
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Getsuya posted:‘Why do Japanese RPGs always star teens? Because older folks couldn’t recover with just one night at the inn.’ What about Strago
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Dec 2, 2017 17:15
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He has a young teen heart. That's why he's a good grandpa to Relm.
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Dec 2, 2017 18:04
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al-azad posted:Or maybe modern society means something different for people. Maybe different cultures have different values. I'm not really sure what point you're making here, because "cultural difference" that ain't. It's the quintessential arch-conservative message: It doesn't matter what you want, it matters what we think you should be wanting. "Putting the community over the individual" is all well and good for you because the community wants something that you happen to approve of. If it isn't, then what the community wants becomes "give up all your dreams, shut the gently caress up and keep your head down, because you don't matter and your happiness is of no importance to anyone" all in a hurry. Your parents could tell you all about that. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Dec 2, 2017 |
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Dec 2, 2017 18:58
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The system is poo poo and they SHOULD burn it down
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Dec 2, 2017 19:20
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Endorph posted:yeah, there's also that. 'you are slave. want emancipation?' and then it ends with everything literally the same as it started. the worst of it is exhibited in Haru's father - the thieves were tricked into it, but there's no explanation that those rumors about him overworking employees to the point of death aren't true, and the palace you infiltrate is literally his brain - his employees as robot slaves who take his orders until they die or are broken, and then disposed of. Taking him down was obviously the wrong move for the Thieves as an organization, because it led to widespread resentment of them and their tactics, which in turn would lead to people accepting the status quo. As I recall, it's more that they took him down for the wrong reasons, not that taking him down wasn't a good thing. As I recall, they basically did it because their online fanbase encouraged them too. The Thieves allowed themselves to be manipulated because they started becoming more interested in being popular than their justice. They especially regret it when it blows up in their faces, but they also are extremely distressed that he died as a result of their actions. The whole thing left a bitter taste in the mouth, but I don't think anyone says it was wrong to stop him -- only that it was done in the wrong way, for the wrong reasons.
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Dec 2, 2017 19:38
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exquisite tea posted:Is there a reason why the PS4 version of Berseria seems to be on sale much less frequently than the Steam edition, other than "Playtation Store." It was on sale over the black friday weekend, at least on the eu store.
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Dec 2, 2017 19:51
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exquisite tea posted:Is there a reason why the PS4 version of Berseria seems to be on sale much less frequently than the Steam edition, other than "Playtation Store." The PSN store doesn't have to compete with 'free' like Steam does.
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Dec 2, 2017 19:53
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exquisite tea posted:Is there a reason why the PS4 version of Berseria seems to be on sale much less frequently than the Steam edition, other than "Playtation Store." If you don’t mind physical it’s $30 at GS and BB
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Dec 2, 2017 20:58
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lmao
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Dec 2, 2017 21:18
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Cardiovorax posted:And this doesn't echo what Mr. Fortitude said how, exactly? As you say, they're super privileged, so the system rewards them for obeying the system. Not obeying the system would be self-destructive, because the system punishes not obeying the system. The internal strife of Persona 4's characters is that they deny their true selves because what they desire doesn't match the truth of reality. It has nothing to do with society or the pressures to conform. Prior to getting their persona the characters have no goals or aspirations, that is why they have to confront themselves. Like Yukiko's issue isn't that she's being pressured to work in the inn, it's that she sheepishly mopes around doing nothing while the inn languishes. Her selfishness caused suffering for her family. The important thing the game concludes is that the characters come to their conclusion on their own free will. They evaluate their scenario and instead of doing nothing they actually form goals. This is straight from Yukiko's ending quote:Yukiko: I'm also thinking of continuing my studies for a job license. Yukiko's intended desire was to run away, a situation she realized wouldn't have worked out. In the end she works towards a job license, she takes a proactive role in their community, and by her own will she strives to become a better person. This is not, by any definition, conformity.
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Dec 3, 2017 01:05
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8-Bit Scholar posted:As I recall, it's more that they took him down for the wrong reasons, not that taking him down wasn't a good thing. As I recall, they basically did it because their online fanbase encouraged them too. The Thieves allowed themselves to be manipulated because they started becoming more interested in being popular than their justice.
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Dec 3, 2017 01:40
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al-azad posted:The internal strife of Persona 4's characters is that they deny their true selves because what they desire doesn't match the truth of reality. It has nothing to do with society or the pressures to conform. Social pressure and conformity is literally what everyone's character arc is entirely about. The entire theme of the story is self-actualization and coming to terms with yourself. The game massively drops the ball when it comes to really letting most of them achieve that goal in any real way, but that doesn't remove the theme itself. quote:Yukiko's intended desire was to run away, a situation she realized wouldn't have worked out. In the end she works towards a job license, she takes a proactive role in their community, and by her own will she strives to become a better person. ...that, and also the weird group-think "the desires of family and society come before the desires of the individual" thing you have going. I'd really love to know what your parents would have to say about it if you asked them who was right back then, in that example you graciously provided: the society that said black people ought to get taught in closets, or the individuals who said "gently caress that noise" and started Civil Rights movement to make society cut that poo poo out. Well, if they don't disown you for actually needing them to explain that to you, anyway. "They're Japanese, you just don't get it" is not a legitimate reason for the characters ultimately mostly failing to actually pull of any of the "self-actualization" part. I'm not sure whether you were just not paying attention at all or are being intentionally obtuse. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 01:52
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I think the Persona series has earned a lot of benefit of the doubt when it comes to how its dialogue, characters and themes are interpreted Even that scene in Persona 5 - I really don't think it was ever intended to be "gays are gross lol". Rather, it was illustrating kids over their heads (which reinforced the primary theme of that chapter). I mean, seconds later the protrag is in a bar getting manipulated by a depressed and drunken reporter, and the only rational person is the drag queen bartender; she's not a joke or punchline I think you really have to go out of your way to be upset at that situation in context
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Dec 3, 2017 01:53
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WarpDogs posted:I think the Persona series has earned a lot of benefit of the doubt when it comes to how its dialogue, characters and themes are interpreted do you mean the trans panic jokes in p3, or the second instance of gay panic in p5 that your explanation doesn’t cover lola is good and cool but she doesn’t cancel out the bad poo poo, man
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Dec 3, 2017 01:58
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WarpDogs posted:I think the Persona series has earned a lot of benefit of the doubt when it comes to how its dialogue, characters and themes are interpreted persona's definitely earned the benefit of the doubt for having a scene that's literally just teenagers getting terrified of a creepy trans woman with zero meaningful context to read into it like i haven't played p5 yet so maybe there are valid excuses for everything in that game or some poo poo but there is no good excuse for p3 and that's why i'm going to give the series the side-eye The Colonel fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 01:58
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WarpDogs posted:I think the Persona series has earned a lot of benefit of the doubt when it comes to how its dialogue, characters and themes are interpreted it has not also the in over their heads thing might be an excuse for the scene in shinjuku but how does that apply to the part where those same two guys are on the beach
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Dec 3, 2017 02:00
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Cardiovorax posted:
"They're Japanese, you just don't get it" is a pretty legitimate reason when you just used the example that is a big part of Japanese culture in the previous paragraph.
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Dec 3, 2017 02:02
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Neddy Seagoon posted:"They're Japanese, you just don't get it" is a pretty legitimate reason when you just used the example that is a big part of Japanese culture in the previous paragraph. There isn't, though. This wasn't exactly hard to explain and most of it is pretty universal. The Tale of Genji this ain't. Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Dec 3, 2017 |
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Dec 3, 2017 02:04
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| # ? May 20, 2024 07:37 |
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Here's a Japanese story about a group of teens violently sticking it to their parents and society that's also extremely gay man horny if you pay attention Now no one needs to care about Pee 5 anymore
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Dec 3, 2017 02:19
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