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Escobarbarian posted:so uh, not so into the whole comics game these days, and I only just discovered Doomsday Clock is a thing. I think everyone around here knows it's a terrible idea but really just doesn't care. I mean it's not like anyone with a brain can seriously say it's a great move to have Geoff Johns continue the Watchmen storyline, but that ship sailed when Rebirth hit in 2016 so everyone who did care probably just doesn't care anymore.
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Dec 10, 2017 00:36
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I guess it’ll just be like Before Watchmen and a couple years on it’ll be almost totally forgotten except for the occasional “hey remember this? man it sucked”.
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Dec 10, 2017 00:38
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Escobarbarian posted:I guess it’ll just be like Before Watchmen and a couple years on it’ll be almost totally forgotten except for the occasional “hey remember this? man it sucked”. Nah this one is a bit too woven into the actual DC Universe now, so it's going to be more than a footnote and forgotten story.
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Dec 10, 2017 00:39
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I mean yeah, I was p upset about DC loving with Watchmen, but...Rebirth 1 was like a year and a half ago. I'm all raged-out except for the fact that the dumb arm-ripping off rear end in a top hat who loves to copy Moore every chance he gets, then blame Moore when someone points out that making someone a rapist zombie is like bad for the general tone of DC is writing it.X-O posted:Nah this one is a bit too woven into the actual DC Universe now, so it's going to be more than a footnote and forgotten story. If it sucks, which it will, they'll immediately just pivot this to a fuckin' Watchmen solo that goes nowhere and is cancelled in 12 issues into them sort of badly cameoing in the main books into them being eliminated from continuity in the next Crisis event like five years from now. Just like DC does with every other storyline or event that either doesn't work or Morrison came up with. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Dec 10, 2017 |
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Dec 10, 2017 00:41
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Marvel did a couple of even worse events which consumed all the opprobrium that would otherwise have been vented on Doomsday Clock. The tank hadn't completely refilled yet when Doomsday Clock started.
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Dec 10, 2017 00:47
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Bendis just shared on social media that he got a MRSA infection so bad that it almost killed him and he'll need months to fully recover. I guess Marvel wasn't too happy about him leaving.
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Dec 10, 2017 01:19
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Speaking of Bendis, another question I have as an "out of the game" dude is that where did all this hate for him I've seen recently come from?? I always remember him as a good dude who wrote good, fun, really well-paced stories, and people would only really diss him for the endless dialogue and a lot of that was just people making fun but I see way more negativity associated with him these days. I dropped out sometime after Siege in 2010 but I think I read Ultimate End when that came out too. Did he do something? Has he gotten worse? Am I simply listening to Lick The Whisk too much?
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Dec 10, 2017 02:06
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Escobarbarian posted:Speaking of Bendis, another question I have as an "out of the game" dude is that where did all this hate for him I've seen recently come from?? I always remember him as a good dude who wrote good, fun, really well-paced stories, and people would only really diss him for the endless dialogue and a lot of that was just people making fun but I see way more negativity associated with him these days. I dropped out sometime after Siege in 2010 but I think I read Ultimate End when that came out too. Did he do something? Has he gotten worse? Am I simply listening to Lick The Whisk too much? Bendis' comic decompression is a blight on the industry. Plus every event he wrote is bad.
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Dec 10, 2017 02:12
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Mr Hootington posted:Bendis' comic decompression is a blight on the industry. Plus every event he wrote is bad. House of M was good.
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Dec 10, 2017 02:18
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We monkey pawed getting Bendis to write every Marvel book about a decade back. Once it happened his limitations and over reliance on certain character ticks really became apparent. His events have been terrible, with a couple bright spots that only really serve to illustrate how bad the entire piece is. Finally, he's the only mother fucker who cares about Mile's dad.
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Dec 10, 2017 02:19
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Rhyno posted:House of M was good. Maybe if it was 3 or 4 issues and disnt end with "no more mutants".
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Dec 10, 2017 02:30
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Mr Hootington posted:Maybe if it was 3 or 4 issues and disnt end with "no more mutants". The follow up being terrible isn't his fault.
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Dec 10, 2017 02:51
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Alhazred posted:He got sued because of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (as far as I know the only movie adaption of his work where he's credited). IIRC the Joel Silver thing was what pushed him over the edge to removing his name from movie adaptations. He was just tired of people bugging him about movies that he had nothing to do with and no interest in. Skwirl posted:This kinda poo poo happens all the time. There was a woman claiming Terminator and The Matrix were both based off an original script of hers. At Harry Potter signings fans would try and hand Rowling their own fiction and her agent would grab them and get rid of them before she could even touch them on the off chance there was any coincidental similarities between one of them and some future book she wrote. People who make those claims are also not above lying/changing their poo poo to try and make their claims stronger. There's this woman who wrote a book starring a character named Harry Potter and using the term "muggles" who was saying Rowling stole the story. Then it turns out that when people found first editions of the book the Harry character didn't actually have a last name.
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Dec 10, 2017 06:49
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My problem with Bendis is that he writes so many books, you can tell which ones have his attention, and which he's half assing. When he's on, he's on though. Defenders has been great.
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Dec 10, 2017 08:00
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Escobarbarian posted:Speaking of Bendis, another question I have as an "out of the game" dude is that where did all this hate for him I've seen recently come from?? I always remember him as a good dude who wrote good, fun, really well-paced stories, and people would only really diss him for the endless dialogue and a lot of that was just people making fun but I see way more negativity associated with him these days. I dropped out sometime after Siege in 2010 but I think I read Ultimate End when that came out too. Did he do something? Has he gotten worse? Am I simply listening to Lick The Whisk too much? When a writer has been popular for way too long people come along and claim that they were always poo poo to appear cool. Of course if a creator has been doing stuff for a long time their stuff will start to wane but it is still cool to say "I enjoy their stuff when they first started out".
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Dec 10, 2017 09:51
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I don't have any strong feelings towards him but I hate the person who pointed out to me the way he writes his dialogs. Every time I see a random page and it's structured like that I immediately go "Bendis".
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Dec 10, 2017 10:39
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I think Bendis' batting average probably went down a bit over the years, but I don't think a year has gone by without him writing several great comics. The other issue is a lot of his comics just sort of petered out instead of having a decent climax. I still think his Daredevil is probably better than Frank Miller's, or anyone else's.
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Dec 10, 2017 10:41
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Bendis did great work revitalizing the Avengers and Spider-man (in USM), as well as telling a great story with Alias that also made Luke Cage relevant and interesting again for the first time in decades. Without him, we wouldn't have 2 of the 4 netflix series we have now. but then he heavily wore out his welcome on both Avengers and USM to the point that he was kind of ruining the books. And then he wrote a bunch of forgettable bad books after he was finally forced off Avengers at gunpoint. He's not a guy who thinks things through when plotting stories, and it shows in how unsatisfying the payoffs to the long-running threads in his books tend to be. But he loves setting up those threads anyway. He's also notoriously not concerned with continuity that he didn't create, and this isn't me being a grumpus, this is editors who've worked for him publically saying so, which has led to him dismissing previously established characterization to fit square pegs into round holes. Couple that with the fact that he was obviously stretching himself thin with the amount of books he was writing, which led to some of them feeling genuinely half-assed and it's no wonder the bad outweighs the good for many. I mean hell, he just did Dark Reign twice in a row in the Avengers books because no one told him he couldn't. Bendis is a writer who's good if he gets in and gets out of a title in a timely manner and has an editor there to tell him things like "Carnage doesn't absorb people's life force, you're getting him confused with the Ultimate version" and other things he gets wrong. Just look at his Daredevil run. He's great for giving a book a shot in the arm and having powerful and memorable character moments, and he can write some pretty funny dialogue, too. But he shouldn't be given the kind of free rein he had at the height of his Marvel tenure, and he really shouldn't write something that relies so much on convoluted continuity as X-men.
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Dec 10, 2017 12:04
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Bendis moving from Marvel to DC could be a good thing for all 3 parties. He gets a fresh slate of characters to play with and isn't responsible for the big crossovers, Marvel get to give some other writers a go, and DC get another good writer.
Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Dec 10, 2017 |
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Dec 10, 2017 12:06
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Lurdiak posted:He's also notoriously not concerned with continuity that he didn't create, and this isn't me being a grumpus, this is editors who've worked for him publically saying so, which has led to him dismissing previously established characterization to fit square pegs into round holes. What sticks out? Nothing's springing to mind other than I guess the Original Five X-Men? I don't doubt that but I honestly just can't think of anything.
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Dec 10, 2017 12:49
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Wheat Loaf posted:What sticks out? Nothing's springing to mind other than I guess the Original Five X-Men? I don't doubt that but I honestly just can't think of anything. The characterization of basically any villain he's used in Avengers, for one. Then there's Wonder Man, Kid Marvel, Jarvis, Tigra, and a host of others who act completely out of character to fit what he wants for his story.
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Dec 10, 2017 13:05
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Thanks for all the Bendis talk. I definitely disagree about the decompression thing (iirc conics this century are so much more well-paced than last) but a lot of the rest makes sense. I agree House Of M is good, but I also liked Siege (which from what I can tell isn’t very well-liked). Secret Invasion I don’t remember a thing about Another thing....so I decided to reread Identity Crisis because I hate myself/wanted to see if it had any redeeming qualities I’d forgotten about (sorta but not really they all pale under the shittiness of the story being told), and it made it COMPLETELY worth it when I got to the DC In Demand section at the end of issue 7 and saw they’d actually described it as “the landmark story that redefined the level of realism in the DC universe”. That poo poo is completely hilarious now
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Dec 10, 2017 13:19
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Escobarbarian posted:Another thing....so I decided to reread Identity Crisis because I hate myself/wanted to see if it had any redeeming qualities I’d forgotten about (sorta but not really they all pale under the shittiness of the story being told), and it made it COMPLETELY worth it when I got to the DC In Demand section at the end of issue 7 and saw they’d actually described it as “the landmark story that redefined the level of realism in the DC universe”. That poo poo is completely hilarious now As a story, Identity Crisis is bad on the whole, but there are a few scenes in it I like in isolation. Ollie talking about why superheroes wear masks was pretty good. I think Rags Morales's art in it is very good; probably better than the story deserves. When Identity Crisis was new I was hugely into it. I thought it was really clever and really well-written and (sigh) really mature and grown-up. However, I was 14 when I read Identity Crisis and my only experience of DC comics and characters was the DCAU, so it did seem genuinely very novel to me. Are there still people who are really ardent, passionate defenders of Identity Crisis now, nearly 15 (!) years later? Might be BSS skewing my perspective on it but I feel like it's one that everyone has more or less agreed upon.
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Dec 10, 2017 13:37
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Wheat Loaf posted:As a story, Identity Crisis is bad on the whole, but there are a few scenes in it I like in isolation. Ollie talking about why superheroes wear masks was pretty good. I think Rags Morales's art in it is very good; probably better than the story deserves. The moments were the superheroes and villains are just talking to each other is pretty good.
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Dec 10, 2017 13:41
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Wheat Loaf posted:When Identity Crisis was new I was hugely into it. I thought it was really clever and really well-written and (sigh) really mature and grown-up. However, I was 14 when I read Identity Crisis The same on all counts. Just part of being a teen I guess. I also tried to reread Infinite Crisis but couldn’t do it. Not as bad a story as Identity overall but it feels like way more of a chore to read these days, especially when you know the universe getting less dark thing is basically lip service.
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Dec 10, 2017 13:42
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Escobarbarian posted:Speaking of Bendis, another question I have as an "out of the game" dude is that where did all this hate for him I've seen recently come from?? I always remember him as a good dude who wrote good, fun, really well-paced stories, and people would only really diss him for the endless dialogue and a lot of that was just people making fun but I see way more negativity associated with him these days. I dropped out sometime after Siege in 2010 but I think I read Ultimate End when that came out too. Did he do something? Has he gotten worse? Am I simply listening to Lick The Whisk too much? Every so often, fandom closes its eyes and throws a dart, and whoever's picture it hits is the new Worst Person In Comics Ever.
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Dec 10, 2017 15:34
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Wheat Loaf posted:
Dan DiDio called it number 2 or 3 best DC comic of the decade...so yes. Also, yes, in general there are passionate IC fans. There's a lot of crossover between those people and MoS/BvS likers, for obvious reasons.
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Dec 10, 2017 18:23
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Wheat Loaf posted:Are there still people who are really ardent, passionate defenders of Identity Crisis now, nearly 15 (!) years later? Might be BSS skewing my perspective on it but I feel like it's one that everyone has more or less agreed upon. I just like to remind people that the art and dialogue are really good. The Butter Pecan speech, the Clark and Martha Kent scene, Batman saying he can quit whenever he wants, and Ollie in general I still remember fondly after not reading the book in years. I also enjoyed the way the villains associated with each other.
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Dec 10, 2017 18:23
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In fact I would say IC was pretty much the prototype for modern DCEU storytelling in the sense of it being serious and about things (those things being terrible, overly serious grim n' gritty bullshit) that only fourteen-year-olds would find deep.
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Dec 10, 2017 18:27
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Open Marriage Night posted:I just like to remind people that the art and dialogue are really good. The Butter Pecan speech, the Clark and Martha Kent scene, Batman saying he can quit whenever he wants, and Ollie in general I still remember fondly after not reading the book in years. I also enjoyed the way the villains associated with each other. Well, sure, like I said earlier, there's plenty of things in it that are good and the things you mentioned are among them, but are there people who'll go to the wall for it as a whole, rather than just the bits of it that are good; do people think the murder investigation plot is a work of genius even though it's not very well done, or think Deathstroke taking out the Justice League is the best fight scene ever, for instance?
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Dec 10, 2017 18:45
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Am I right to assume Meltzer didn’t pitch Identity Crisis and was merely hired to write it?
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Dec 10, 2017 18:56
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The Tim Drake orphans chapter is really well done but that wasn't enough to redeem the terrible story that is Identity Crisis. The only people I have seen defend it are people who read it but have never read anything else by DC, which kind of confuses me because even if you don't know the characters and you are reading it as a story just featuring newly made up superheroes it is still a loving awful story with a mystery that gets solved in the worst way possible filled with characters who actions make no sense whatsoever.
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Dec 10, 2017 19:01
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Identity Crisis is one of those comics perfectly tailored to appeal to people who don't actually like superheroes.
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Dec 10, 2017 20:28
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Lurdiak posted:Identity Crisis is one of those comics perfectly tailored to appeal to people who don't actually like superheroes. And a mystery story for people who don't actually like mystery stories.
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Dec 10, 2017 20:31
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Identity Crisis is what you get when you think every idiot in Wizard who says that the Authority is the only way superheroes "work" has a point, or what happens when people who bitch about comics being "unrealistic" and therefore bad get to write a comic. It explains literally everything about the comic, beyond the rape, beyond the mind wiping, beyond the multiple murders, beyond the culprit being a crazy estranged wife (because, see, most murders are as a result of domestic conflict a hurr durr durr). The entire deathstroke battle makes perfect sense if you view Deathstroke as the "realistic" superhero/antihero- a guy with no powers using Cold Logic and Real Facts to clown those FOOLS in spandex. I mean, he has Flash literally impale himself in order to beat him. That's an idea you only come up with if you try to apply "real world logic" and attempt to "ground" the Flash - he can't stop instantly, his momentum would be too high, so just hold a sword out and wait! He beats himself for you!
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Dec 10, 2017 21:18
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:Identity Crisis is what you get when you think every idiot in Wizard who says that the Authority is the only way superheroes "work" has a point, or what happens when people who bitch about comics being "unrealistic" and therefore bad get to write a comic. I have never read this comic, but now I absolutely despise it because I loving hate people who do that. The people who get way too up their own rear end about super powers and constantly give Batman a handjob because his powers are logic which makes every fedora neckbeard think they are superhero while never understanding that Batman spent years studying of variety of disciplines, is not invincible, and didn't get to be that way by being a fat rear end behind the computer who just thinks they're smart but is really dumb.
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Dec 10, 2017 21:35
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Rhyno posted:House of M was good. The one thing that bugs me about House of M is that the heroes' master plan at the end was "GET 'EM! ...and hope that everything somehow turns out all right."
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Dec 10, 2017 21:41
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Covok posted:I have never read this comic, but now I absolutely despise it because I loving hate people who do that. The people who get way too up their own rear end about super powers and constantly give Batman a handjob because his powers are logic which makes every fedora neckbeard think they are superhero while never understanding that Batman spent years studying of variety of disciplines, is not invincible, and didn't get to be that way by being a fat rear end behind the computer who just thinks they're smart but is really dumb. Yeah Grant Morrison's take on Bruce Wayne Batman pre Batman Inc. was bad.
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Dec 10, 2017 21:45
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Gavok posted:The one thing that bugs me about House of M is that the heroes' master plan at the end was "GET 'EM! ...and hope that everything somehow turns out all right." Well their plan was to liberate Xavier really.
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Dec 10, 2017 22:36
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I'm looking to make a comic book. I was wondering if anyone would be willing to take a peak at the script because I'm an amateur. The Premise of "Vox Populi: The Voice of the People": Vox Populi is a vigilante who deals poetic punishment to individuals who escape the laws of man, people who normally don't go to jail and don't get punished for their crimes. His identity is a secret, even from the readers, and his powers are mysterious, even from the readers. He could be man or a concept or a spirit. The people he punishes are people like a pharmaceutical CEO who buys a patent just to raise the prices to unsustainable levels out of greed or a cop who uses his position to kill black people and get away with it. He makes his punishment fit the crime like taking the aforementioned CEO's money away and having him suffer under the broken US healthcare system and be unable to get the medicine he needs to live because of his own price gouging. It's a revenge fantasy comic. And it's political. The script for issue 1 can be found here. It's...messy. I'm working on issue 2 and I think I have a better idea what to do with the comic. So I might revise this later. I also got two other ideas: Not-So-Superman, a comic about isolation and boring mundanity about a man whose secretly the superhero Omegaman but still works a boring 9-to-5 office job, and DEFEND: American Patriot, a pulp comic set in 1975 about a secret agent defending America and dealing with racial and gender inequality since she is an African American women from New Orleans who got her position because the person in charge of DEFEND isn't racist or sexist and is able to get around the forces who'd stop him. Though, obviously, I plan on focusing on this one until I hit a natural stopping point, shelve it for a bit, and do one of the others in a rotational thing. Kind of like what Valiant does, except only one comic at a time. Though, this probably thinking way too ahead.
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Dec 10, 2017 23:36
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