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Ghost Island looks like CBS wanted to have a returnee season but then changed their minds at the last minute.
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Dec 22, 2017 12:45
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Vernacular posted:Were we watching the same show? He definitely played it up. But I'm also less bothered by "our troops" than some people here so I was certainly less sensitive/"tuned in" to it. And like I said, I think the show played it up but Ben isn't responsible for his personal soundtrack. Vernacular posted:I'll admit as well that I grew to like Chrissy. I think it was quite impressive how she ended up back in the majority alliance (while ticking off a lot of the same "persistence" "hustle" "tenacity" boxes that Ben did) after getting knocked off her pedestal when the alliance of seven splintered. She didn't emphasize that nearly enough at FTC, although I still think she held her own very well (with the exception of continuing to interrupt the jury members...good lord, maybe develop some self-awareness of flaws?) She was not a perfect player, but she was at least Ben's equal in terms of gameplay (as was Devon). Not to mention the fact that Ben also played a socially flawed game, though for whatever reason that wasn't as a much of a dealbreaker for him as it was for Chrissy. I said it before, but Chrissy could be a great player if she just had a LITTLE self awareness and humility. But I'm glad she doesn't because it was fun to watch her.
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Dec 22, 2017 14:11
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xbilkis posted:I don't even see why you need to prevent a stale final two votes. People's gameplay during the beginning of the season should mean something at the end of the season. If you've built a game that's put you in a position to smoothly sail into the end, there should be a limit to the mechanics that get in your way. I bet you love pagongings because they're just so fair and pure. Invalid Validation posted:What a loving travesty, giving Ben like 5 loving immunity idols and then giving him a chance to win at the last second. Of course he’d win cause he blabbered on about PTSD the whole season and this country has a bleeding heart towards veterans. Ben wasn't given any idols. He didn't win because of a sob story about PTSD. A lot of people liked him because he's just a charismatic fun guy... you know, that thing that made him a threat. Leave it to goons to not understand that. We were shown more characterization because he won and the editors want us to be on the side of the winner. Do you know how many bits we would have seen about overcoming adversity if Chrissy had won? Vernacular posted:
... that happened at dawn... after he had been out all night after a tribal council. This poo poo is a broken record every season. CODChimera posted:I think that would've been an interesting change to the F4 to tell people about earlier on in the season, not as a secret AT F4. I've had no problem with the idols or advantages but this one is a litttttle bit silly. Yeah, that would have made them want to get Ben before final 4 which was different than how things happened this season because
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Dec 22, 2017 14:46
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However, his path to the end was so obviously gifted to him by production that his victory is sullied. Did anybody mention how drat easy that last idol was to find?
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Zesty posted:Yeah, that would have made them want to get Ben before final 4 which was different than how things happened this season because ...then it wouldn’t look as much like the producers made that twist up at the last second to gift Ben an f3 spot. I mean I’m not saying they did, but I’m not 100% sure they didn’t either.
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Dec 22, 2017 15:11
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Vernacular posted:One more point on the "tailing players looking for idols" topic. Ben is a physically imposing human, moreso than the rest of the people on the island. He's also a Marine who's been through some poo poo. Do you really want to be the person standing between Ben and an idol? Or is there anything they could have practically done short of starting an actual fight to physically prevent Ben from obtaining it once he had the clue? It certainly isn't about fighting him for it. I'd maybe want to be with him just to potentially be the only one that knows. That knowledge is immense power.
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Dec 22, 2017 15:19
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Okay Ben has an idol and now you know about it, how does that change anything about the way you vote at 6 or 5?
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Dec 22, 2017 15:21
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Lone Goat posted:Okay Ben has an idol and now you know about it, how does that change anything about the way you vote at 6 or 5? Maybe I can find a way to soften the blow for the new jury member and also not look like a total doofus when Ben surprises me with yet another idol. But if I was the only one to know, things could get a lot more interesting. And obviously the superior move is to make sure he doesn't have it, and keep it for yourself when you find it.
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Dec 22, 2017 15:27
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Zesty posted:Ben wasn't given any idols. He didn't win because of a sob story about PTSD. A lot of people liked him because he's just a charismatic fun guy... you know, that thing that made him a threat. Leave it to goons to not understand that. They may not have given it to him personally. However, with most reality tv, it's super scripted and I tend to err on the side the producers intentionally went out of there way to give him an advantage because it makes for good tv.
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Dec 22, 2017 15:31
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Invalid Validation posted:What a loving travesty, giving Ben like 5 loving immunity idols and then giving him a chance to win at the last second. Of course he’d win cause he blabbered on about PTSD the whole season and this country has a bleeding heart towards veterans. I would argue that this country is not, in fact, obsessed with providing much-needed health care to individuals with mental health issues
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Dec 22, 2017 16:45
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“I have mental problems because I experienced the horrors of war” is a completely valid reason to say why you weren’t the best socially. Certainly better than “I ran the game through this other guy, believe me” or “I am a busy mom with a good memory.”
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Dec 22, 2017 16:49
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AdmiralViscen posted:I would argue that this country is not, in fact, obsessed with providing much-needed health care to individuals with mental health issues Oh of course not but we love to use them as props for the country's patriotism instead of you know, giving them the help they need. I'm totally ok with him using it as a reason to win. I just don't like how he got to the final 3 to begin with.
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Dec 22, 2017 17:59
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I wouldn't characterize his heartfelt explanation of his common-yet-oft-ignored-or-ridiculed personal challenges as "blabbered on about PTSD" I think it's actually really valuable for him to be so frank and honest about it in such a public setting If he can nudge PTSD affliction a little bit closer to sympathy in the public eye then that is a win for everyone. And like his friend said in the finale, if one PTSD sufferer watches the show and decides to talk to someone instead of killing themselves then that is a good thing He was being the exact opposite of a prop for traditional rah-rah patriotism, from his articulation of the true costs of war to his unfailing use of "men and women" to describe his comrades
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Dec 22, 2017 18:30
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Zesty posted:Oh does she not have a CBS job anymore? Backpedaling already: https://www.twitter.com/parvatishallow/status/943686832994340864
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Dec 22, 2017 18:45
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You're right I'm being a little mean about him talking about PTSD when it was them editing it in a way that focuses on it. He still didn't need to be the winner to highlight PTSD.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:14
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I just found it funny that the guy with PTSD is the one making exploding bomb sounds every tribal council.
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Dec 22, 2017 20:36
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Zesty posted:I bet you love pagongings because they're just so fair and pure. We so rarely see a full Pagoning that it's novel when it happens.
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Dec 22, 2017 20:43
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Lone Goat posted:I just found it funny that the guy with PTSD is the one making exploding bomb sounds every tribal council. Right cause these 2 things are the same.
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Dec 22, 2017 20:53
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Thoughts: Chrissy got royally screwed, but that's nothing new for any reality show, also I'm into next season because it seems like the culmination of all the years Survivor spent slowly-but-steadily evolving into Primetime Mario Party
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Dec 22, 2017 22:03
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You can argue Chrissy got screwed or whatever but I think whoever won fire was going to win so it’s moot. Her real issue was that she treated everything all game like whoever she was talking to needed to convince themselves that Chrissy knows all rather than trying to frame it in a way that makes it seem beneficial for them. And she was too transparent at every turn. Not bothering to talk strategy until she needed to. Gathering random facts about people to use later rather than actually getting to know them. I liked her a little more at the end, for her tenacity if nothing else. But she seems like someone whose personality would prevent her from playing any different if she were to come back later on. Cast wise, I thought this season was great. Of the finalists and jurors, Cole and JP are the only people I’d be mad to see pop up again.
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Dec 22, 2017 22:45
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This season has proven that the real Survivor gamechanger is Michele Fitzgerald because production have done everything in their power to ensure we don’t have another ‘boring’ winner. I feel that most of this rigging controversy could have been avoided if the f4 twist was announced at the start of the game like the voting tiebreakers last season. There seems to be a theme appearing that winners have to have some outside driving force for why they deserve to win. I think Jeff likes this because his recent interest in Survivor (aside from the crazy money of course) seems to be its ability to be a story telling medium. This season felt to me that production wanted to copy Jeremy’s second chance story of playing for Val and his family. I don’t know if this a lost in cultural difference thing but I feel Jeff repeatedly bringing up Zeke’s outing and Ben’s PTSD is horribly tone deaf. I hope production actually listen to opinions on advantage overload but I doubt it. Some of the most popular seasons like Pearl Islands and Fans v Favourites had controversial twists so it’s not like they can’t exist but the last 2 seasons just felt saturated with them.
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Dec 22, 2017 22:50
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Zesty posted:
It would mean people wouldn't be crying about production rigging it for Ben, or at least there would be less crying. I'm not American but aren't veterans treated kinda poorly on return? It's good Ben was able to shed some light on the issue.
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Dec 23, 2017 01:02
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PTSD literally changes the shape of your brain. It's loving serious poo poo, but it's somehow still really misunderstood and not treated with the gravity it deserves. One thing that is helping take the sting out of this is the fact that Ben is a genuinely good dude who is using his platform to speak out about this poo poo. And that was absolutely not his plan going in; according to him, he wasn't even planning on telling anyone he was a Marine. Then Jeff said "welcome to Heroes, Healers, and Hustlers" and he was like "well, poo poo."
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Dec 23, 2017 01:39
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I never got the impression that Ben was trying to sell his story as a sob story to win the million. I recall when he had a PTSD reaction to firewood popping that another castaway came up to him and asked him if he wanted to talk about it and he said no. It makes total sense that someone living with PTSD would not want it to be in the spotlight, so I see his moments of openness about it as incredibly genuine and courageous. It also makes me see the producers as exploitive, but I already knew that after the Zeke outing.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:21
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CODChimera posted:I'm not American but aren't veterans treated kinda poorly on return? It's good Ben was able to shed some light on the issue. Maybe in the 60s and 70s but now we are treated pretty well. A lot of that has to do with the right wing "even if you don't support the war support the troops" propaganda that has been pushed.
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Dec 23, 2017 04:51
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STAC Goat posted:I don't know, it never seemed that way to me. I mean, the show played it up with dramatic music and all but the only times I remember him really talking about it were when the fire was freaking him out, when Joe lied that he had sworn on being a marine, and at the final tribal. And maybe that was him playing it up but in fairness he brought it up in direct response to why he was so socially awkward/rude. Which I guess maybe some one buy as a legitimate excuse but it didn't seem like just a card he whipped out on the regular. I get really bothered by "our troops" stuff and I wasn't bothered by Ben at all, in that regard. I think some of you are forgetting that these people spend almost all day doing nothing but laying about and talking. Being a Marine is a huge part of someone's life, and even if that person was keeping it close and not talking about it, they're going to mention it a few times. It's easy for production to take a few mentions and turn it into the focus of an episode with dramatic music and everything else. Lone Goat posted:Who would ever do this? My Dad basically watches every reality game show ever
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Dec 23, 2017 06:19
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CODChimera posted:It would mean people wouldn't be crying about production rigging it for Ben, or at least there would be less crying. Absolutely. One political party in particular pays lip service to them but then do absolutely nothing for them, instead using the “support our troops” bullshit to justify high military budgets.
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Dec 23, 2017 07:19
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The Bloop posted:Maybe I can find a way to soften the blow for the new jury member and also not look like a total doofus when Ben surprises me with yet another idol. The latter is a fair point, although he's gonna look good regardless. As for the former, actually I think the extra time to "soften the blow" could just as well lead to a messy sour grapes situation that might jeopardize a jury vote. Mike obviously wasn't holding a grudge against Chrissy, so that information was unnecessary for that particular purpose.
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Dec 23, 2017 09:19
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I’m watching All Stars for the first time. Holy poo poo did production drop the ball with Sue. When she called Probst out at the next challenge I was cheering so loud for her (while feeling so disheartened). Also it’s refreshing not having idols popping up everywhere. Liking this season so far. edit: how did this go over when it aired? pokeyman fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Dec 24, 2017 |
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Dec 24, 2017 02:38
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The heavy handed rah rah our troops poo poo came from editing, not Ben himself. He strikes me as a really genuine guy, not someone trying to champion himself/the military. But like I mentioned during final tribal, the somber music cues and the cuts over to the jury solemnly nodding along to him talking about his military experiences were what was starting to tick me off. Production couldn't just let him be a guy. He suddenly has to be this great symbol and huge drat tragic figure.
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Dec 24, 2017 03:23
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pokeyman posted:I’m watching All Stars for the first time. Holy poo poo did production drop the ball with Sue. When she called Probst out at the next challenge I was cheering so loud for her (while feeling so disheartened). Rupert was America's Hero. Jerri was still super hated for some reason. Rob and Ambah got a lot of reality tv mileage out of their relationship so I guess they must have been testing well. Superfans were still pretty rare; they were more innocent times. But the reunion has the biggest bullshit ever.
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Dec 24, 2017 04:40
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pokeyman posted:I’m watching All Stars for the first time. Holy poo poo did production drop the ball with Sue. When she called Probst out at the next challenge I was cheering so loud for her (while feeling so disheartened). All-Stars was not well received at all at the time of its original airing - look at how they didn't do another returning players season until season 16, and even then they abandoned the All-Stars format. I can't go too much into details why until you watch the whole season. P.S. How they handled that Richard/Sue incident has not aged well at all. I remember everyone kind of brushing it off/ignoring it/asking if she was just doing it for the money back in 2004.
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Dec 24, 2017 06:53
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FUnny thing about Richard was that he was the original choice for Rwdemption Island, but he still couldn't get a visa so they went with Boston Rob instead. In less happy news apparently he's getting divorced this year because his husband found someone younger. Oof.
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Dec 24, 2017 09:52
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^Ouch. Yeah, All-Stars is a weird season. You have to remember that at this point, Survivor was way bigger than it is now (and it's still pretty solid in ratings) and everyone involved in that season had developed pretty huge egos because of the fervor surrounding them and the show. When egos clash, it gets ugly, and All-Stars is a pretty ugly season. One thing I will say though is that I actually kind of enjoyed seeing Rob and Amber fall for each other, because it seems so sincere. If you're with someone basically 24 hours a day for 39 days in miserable conditions where you're both hungry, tired, and filthy basically all the time and you're STILL into each other after it's all over... well, you crazy kids might just make it.
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Dec 24, 2017 15:13
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My favourite Survivor story is how Colby and Jerri went from schoolyard crushes to frothing hate to sweet reconciliation over 18 seasons.
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Dec 24, 2017 19:05
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I remember the egos being obnoxious and all but it was great timing for an All Star season. Love or hate it people were into It. The finale filled up Madison Square Garden and Jerri was booed offstage. Maybe the negative reaction is what led to the show's near-immediate decline, but I moved away for college and stopped caring for a few seasons at that point until the "wait, that show's still on the air?" Cook Islands stunt casting publicity.
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Dec 24, 2017 19:13
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Finished watching. That was some "twist" alright. Seemed like a "how can we eke one more episode out of this" gambit, but I understand there were some conspiracy theories at the time? I guess Rupert was super popular? I haven’t watched his seasons in order but the more I see of him the less I like him. The Rob and Amber stuff was cool and seemed genuine (easier to say with some years' retrospective). It did take any suspense out of the final vote but oh well.
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Dec 25, 2017 01:09
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Rupert is a big cry baby but managed to be cast in the perfect season where his character was the full embodiment of the pirate season... So he was super popular and popular enough the CBS made up a fan favorite award to give him money.
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Dec 25, 2017 09:04
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Wasn’t that 1 million as well?
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Dec 25, 2017 15:06
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Yep.
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Dec 25, 2017 15:13
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To give Rupert some credit, he was the least dumb of the Heroes in HvV (mostly because he had a bond with Sandra). On the upside, Rupert met a swift end in BvW.
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Dec 25, 2017 18:01
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