Dance Officer posted:

Terra is going to flip into a jingoist reactionary government. Terran fleets are recalled to the Sol system to quell the rebellions, forcing Mars to redeploy fleets to Sol as well. Terra hates Mars even more than during Putin's days, anti-kasag forces stripped away to protect Mars, Mars itself faces major unrest and possibly insurgency.

Dominion of Sol is a complete disaster, goons ruin everything, Nevets and cohorts got owned by reality.

Not Alex posted:

Given their ties to the intradimensional horrors hostile to all intelligent life that point is not a given.

Crazycryodude posted:

The plan is doing exactly what it's supposed to. We're looking at the fall of the Soviet Union here, all the satellite states (pun not intended) are gonna spin off and leave us as the dominant superpower. If Ceres succeeds, the whole house of cards is gonna come crashing down, so we need to make sure they do.

Crazycryodude posted:

They're not, though? They're loyal to themselves and keeping their nice dachas/orbital habs, not any ideology and definitely not Junior. They can keep all their nice poo poo on Earth, as long as they let most of the colonies go peacefully and help against the Crabs.

quote:

We're not gonna come topple them as well just for ideology's sake or whatever

Crazycryodude posted:

not yet, anyways

Crazycryodude posted:

Ceebees posted:

Alright, so how about at this point, we offer Zu Putina the devil's bargain? We back her up, keep her relatively reformist regime on Earth, break the back of the generals cabal when they move to crush Ceres, etc... And in exchange, Earth becomes second among equals in the new, slightly less repressive 'emergency government' formed to address the Krab threat. All human colonies will be a part of the new human federality (announce this part as a fait accompli AFTER we're done, so the IC remnants don't backstab us as much), and any colonies will be given a choice of Independence and representation, or continued incorporation (the carrot there being that voting members will have higher expected contribution to the war effort)

I mean, it's AN end game here, which we seem to be otherwise lacking.

Crazycryodude posted:

The plan is doing exactly what it's supposed to. We're looking at the fall of the Soviet Union here, all the satellite states (pun not intended) are gonna spin off and leave us as the dominant superpower. If Ceres succeeds, the whole house of cards is gonna come crashing down, so we need to make sure they do.

Affi posted:

Escalating this situation is crazy. You don't get between a mad dog and his favourite bone.

So how the gently caress do the dominion of sol people expect this to work out?
Is this where earth backs down and submits?

Not Alex posted:

No, you shoot mad dogs.

I can't speak to the plan creators, but I voted for it to flush out the illuminati agents and allow all parties to make informed decisions. It seems successful.

Imagine if this unrest was happening while our fleets were tied up in the krab war.

RA Rx posted:

The plan is for war to break out and for Mars to win, or for war not to break out and the next Terran government to be more cooperative than Putina.

If we intervene at least we can get something out of this, at the cost of risking nuclear hellfire.

Ceebees posted:

Alright, so how about at this point, we offer Zu Putina the devil's bargain? We back her up, keep her relatively reformist regime on Earth, break the back of the generals cabal when they move to crush Ceres, etc... And in exchange, Earth becomes second among equals in the new, slightly less repressive 'emergency government' formed to address the Krab threat. All human colonies will be a part of the new human federality (announce this part as a fait accompli AFTER we're done, so the IC remnants don't backstab us as much), and any colonies will be given a choice of Independence and representation, or continued incorporation (the carrot there being that voting members will have higher expected contribution to the war effort)

I mean, it's AN end game here, which we seem to be otherwise lacking.

Ceebees posted:

I mean, it's AN end game here, which we seem to be otherwise lacking.

RA Rx posted:

Our main fleet is actually tied up in Ranganui on defense in the crab war.

RA Rx posted:

That sounds like a good salvage plan, except Putina has no reason to trust us right now, nor could we trust her much after betraying her.
Ceebee's plan is broader, and if we're going to get her to sell out, it has to be complete.

scavy131 posted:

@Saros how long would it take for UT fleet elements to get from Earth/Luna to Ceres?

We may not necessarily need to send forces if we can just make sure the UT support coming from Earth has to go far enough around Mars that we aren't worried about a random nuke going flying and by the time the UT gets to Ceres the fighting will likely be over. The main question we must determine before acting is exactly how large this Independence force on Ceres is, if they can hold even temporary parity with the UT forces in the area there may be grounds to recognize their Independence and the fun fallout that will quite possibly make the war in Sol go hot.

Dance Officer posted:

Dominion of Sol is a complete disaster, goons ruin everything, Nevets and cohorts got owned by reality.

Affi posted:

Why are we doing this when our very existence is at stake?

Nevets posted:

I like how I've somehow become the leader of the DomSol faction even though I didn't conceive of it and voted against it in the first round.

But don't despair! Even if things continue to get worse as you predict, we have an ace in the hole, or maybe I should say an AI in the Hades

All we need to do is tell all the rioting people of Earth that our ancient super knowledgeable AI friend is going to save them. Martians don't have to take over the UT, we just have to be there to offer assistance to Facility when billions of people start asking it to run their lives for them.

Affi posted:

Why are we doing this when our very existence is at stake?

Erwin the German posted:

This situation is incredibly dumb and eminently predictable, so basically par for the course. I'm not gonna say Al Andalus strikes again, cause Neptune, Uranus and all of our asteroid colonies haven't yet spun off into their own polities as we all die in a nuclear conflagration, but I'll be waiting.

Anyway, support Putina and offer to bail her out of this lovely situation if she bends the knee, etc.

Saros posted:

Mars begins a fourth set of releases and these ones take a much more interesting turn. Footage of Nova Sol burning, analyses of incompetent Terran fleet deployments and terrifying footage of the Kasag all combine to stoke fears and distrust of the United Terran government.

Attempts to censor and restrict access by Terra all fail disastrously and a furious Yekaterina summons the Martian ambassador to demand an explanation. When none acceptable is forthcoming the meeting dissolves into threats and perhaps a little bit of shouting.

mossyfisk posted:

The classic thing to do in these situations is to start mobilising our forces for 'general readiness exercises' or whatever, while on an entirely unrelated issue insisting that UT resolve the situation diplomatically without military force.

We backed down over Ranginui, its possible they'd do the same.

Erwin the German posted:

Yeah, but I bet she'll get over it if we offer a lifeline. It's either that or she loses everything to actual space nazis.

Anta posted:

Don't think of it as starting a fire in order to burn things down, think of it as starting a fire to change the battlefield to our advantage.

OwlFancier posted:

So basically we're now at the point where both our polities are becoming increasingly unstable, we've blown all our diplomatic efforts we spend the previous operation trying to build up completely out the window in the process, and we're in the position where we either wait for terra to go full on nazi with a growing martian fascist faction on the rise, or we start a shooting war with UT over Ceres.

What... was the plan again? How are we better off at this point?

Mukaikubo posted:

Things look bad, but remember, this is the Will of Dog. I disliked the plan, but it is now our plan, and we must push through instead of losing ourselves in recriminations about the Dog's plan.

At this point, I favor recalling the fleet, but not making any explicit threats to the Terrans. They're already probably thinking this is a grand buildup to a sneak attack- Russians usually have that paranoia in their mind- and anything that plays into their feelings there risks touching off the Last War. I favor recalling the fleet because I have the nasty feeling we're about to need it for internal reasons.

Jack2142 posted:

This revolution on Ceres gives us a huge opportunity... which again big chunks of people want to throw away because they are still scared of the UT, which is in disarray. We should guarantee the independence of any colonized sol body that seeks self determination and move a force to block any retaliation by the UT at Ceres. TFS already recognizes them, and we need to set ourselves up as a much more... benevolent? Hegemon than Terra has been historically.

I also propose we offer a referendum on Uranus establishing its own independent state to show we are perfectly happy to allow Martian territories the same right to self determination we want the Terran's to follow through. Also since we "conquered" them from the IC it also will show the IC that we aren't coming to conquer them with fire and blood and if they drive out the Trimuvirs we would happily work with a successor government.

HiHo ChiRho posted:

Jesus Christ the plan isn't even done yet, can we at least finish before you submit the entirety of Mars over to the UT begging forgiveness for telling the loving truth?

This isn't al-andalus, it isn't even Flamboyant Schemers Denmark. And don't be acting all high and mighty that going buddy cop with the UT fighting Fart Krabs wasn't going to have these issues cropping up. This plan exacerbated them, but it didn't create them.