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Expect My Mom posted:That game exists and it's Inside (2016) I haven't played it, is that the twist at the end people talk about
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Jan 6, 2018 19:05
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Yes
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Jan 6, 2018 19:06
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Nina posted:All my friends are LGBT pretty much and we talk about this all the time. There’s very much such a thing as fangless, sterile representation that’s made intentionally nonthreatening for the majority audience and while it’s still positive to have representation at all it really sucks that it’s so much less empowering than it could be. It's also important to remember that the central relationship in Life is Strange, which is only ambiguously romantic at best, almost didn't happen as late as 2015 because every other publisher besides Square wanted to make at least one of the leads male. All media conglomerates are by their nature cowardly and will shrink back on representation as soon as they feel like their one drop of progressivism has been met.
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Jan 6, 2018 19:06
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come to think of it i made that post as a joke but i've been loving dead cells and i just more or less described the main character of that
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Jan 6, 2018 19:07
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You can be a fat round slime ball in Stellaris
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Jan 6, 2018 19:10
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loving being a fat round slime ball in January 2018's game of the month: Turning Your Monitor Off
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Jan 6, 2018 19:15
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Oxxidation posted:pretty much, her choices have brought her to disaster either way and she either accepts the reluctance that led to chloe's death or the stubbornness that led to the town's destruction
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Jan 6, 2018 19:17
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Expect My Mom posted:You're totally not wrong, the Sacrifice ending has a much longer and detailed scene with music backing it, it's the cinematic ending. The other one is like 45 seconds with no resolution, but it's my 45 seconds with no resolution The real resolution comes later, in the long and downright bizarre litany of LiS fanfiction.
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Jan 6, 2018 19:18
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glam rock hamhock posted:It's funny that even when games have strong female protagonists, they are unwilling to give them romantic subplots. Somewhat related, I said this in the actual Life is Strange thread, but playing through Before the Storm REALLY made me just want more romance stuff in video games that are just like... cute romance stuff. Like the flirting and dating and cute little moments, and not "you saved the princess and get a kiss" or "making out while an explosion is happening", ya know big epic dramatic poo poo like that. I'm not saying that kind of stuff can't be fun, but it's done all the time. The best parts of Before the Storm to me were things like the flirty train ride, or the tempest play, or the walk home after the play. These felt like real, cute, moments and I don't think games do that kind of thing enough. I used Nathan and Elena from Uncharted 4 as an example of a romance thing that is very action movie romance, but ya know what the best scene of the two of them was? When they were on the couch, eating whatever that pasta thing was she made, playing Crash Bandicoot. Or in Night in the Woods, every scene with Angus and Gregg where they have cute nicknames for each other (Angus calling Gregg "bug") and whatever. Tacoma had several cute interactions between crewmates who were dating. Cute is good! Do more cute!! I know devs are probably scared of doing that kind of thing too often cause gamers like to act like cooties exists but still
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Jan 6, 2018 19:24
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I wouldn’t even call those moments “cute”, they’re just, like, realistic and relatable, and I think we’re going to see more of them in games as time goes on
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Jan 6, 2018 19:29
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Tales of Vesperia had Yuri and Judith flirting with each other at least early on.
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Jan 6, 2018 19:29
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Also I just read the past four pages of discussion, very smart and reasonable posts 
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Jan 6, 2018 19:40
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I started Danganronpa v3 as my first game of 2018. After the first trial I noticed I missed the backroute and redid the trial to see it. Is it worth trying to get the backroute on future trials or are they all just minor bits of dialogue like the first one? Also props to the writers for making the little dude cool and likable, I was afraid he'd be a little poo poo like Mineta but he's the total opposite.
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Jan 6, 2018 19:50
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Nina posted:”You did the bare minimum, now do better” isn’t an unreasonable request for developers imo a developer should be let to do whatever pleases them to whatever magnitude they think suits their work. if you force quotas, everything becomes ingenuine and resentful
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Jan 6, 2018 20:01
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Oxxidation posted:that's magic realism for you, the supernatural happenings are capricious and based on the emotional landscape of the characters themselves When it comes to magical realism, Kentucky Route Zero and Edith Finch are both bleak in their own ways, but they fit with their overall themes. KRZ is all about the ravages of rampant capitalism and the magical realism elements fit with all how the hard times are sucking up all the magic around it. Edith Finch is all about how the Finches couldn't move on from the past and were all cursed to suffer sudden and surreal ends because they just couldn't accept death and move on. Life is Strange's ending is this massive swerve that goes against what's established before. Edith and KRZ so far have been very consistent with their themes and tone. Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 20:05
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Accordion Man posted:They clearly were setting up Sean Prescott as the main villain that Max was chosen to stop and list a bunch of examples. Sean knew the storm was going to happen, the game makes a pointed effort to bring up the Prescott's gated community that they're building farther inland than Arcadia Bay. There's even a note in the barn near the bunker that Sean writes to Nathan warning him that the town is going to get "cleansed." It's a repeated point that the Prescotts have been leeching off of the town like parasites for generations and are destroying the land and town in the process. The existence of the bunker makes perfect sense in the scenario they were building up to that the Prescotts knew and built it to protect themselves, but it's utterly nonsensical in the last episode because they go with that somehow Nathan embezzled thousands of dollars of his dad's money to build Jefferson's rape dungeon right under his dad's nose. Also the fact that Max saw the storm before she got her powers, giving credence that the storm was an entity separate from whether Chloe lived or died. No, it doesn't. The Prescotts are a distant threat used to explain plot contrivances, they're neither relevant nor important. The ending to LiS is signposted in increasingly obvious ways as early as the second act. It's given away in the main character's name, for God's sake. e: you're basically trying to force an incredibly trite good-vs-evil storyline onto the game when it turned to be something much more ambitious and well-thought out Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 20:07
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The White Dragon posted:imo a developer should be let to do whatever pleases them to whatever magnitude they think suits their work. if you force quotas, everything becomes ingenuine and resentful That’s not the point though. If you want to have representation in your game you might as well put in the effort to have some depth to it, if you don’t want that in the first place that shouldn’t be forced.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:11
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The White Dragon posted:imo a developer should be let to do whatever pleases them to whatever magnitude they think suits their work. if you force quotas, everything becomes ingenuine and resentful No one said anything about quotas, please stop sounding like a Daily Mail headline
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Jan 6, 2018 20:14
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Oxxidation posted:No, it doesn't. The Prescotts are a distant threat used to explain plot contrivances, they're neither relevant nor important. And yeah, people saw the Donnie Darko ripoff ending coming, even I did, but some of us at the time laughed it off because clearly this game is actually pretty well written and they wouldn't go with such a predictable and jarring ending. Oxxidation posted:e: you're basically trying to force an incredibly trite good-vs-evil storyline onto the game when it turned to be something much more ambitious and well-thought out Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 20:17
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Nina posted:That’s not the point though. If you want to have representation in your game you might as well put in the effort to have some depth to it, if you don’t want that in the first place that shouldn’t be forced. meaning and depth to i can understand because we see what happens when writing is superficial and checkmarking in bioware games. i misread it as "it's here, so give me more everywhere" rather than "you already put a character in your game who claims to be gay, so make an effort to make them not lovely cutouts" Sakurazuka posted:No one said anything about quotas, please stop sounding like a Daily Mail headline you can gently caress off with this jumping to conclusions about my intentions poo poo though
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Jan 6, 2018 20:22
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everyone should read kindred spirits
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Jan 6, 2018 20:24
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The Colonel posted:everyone should read kindred spirits
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Jan 6, 2018 20:25
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You know what I feel is surprisingly rare in games? Games where the protagonist is already married and their spouse doesn't die horrifically within the first hour or so.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:26
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That's why Uncharted 4 is good
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Jan 6, 2018 20:27
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Bioware's writing being lovely isn't really an argument against representation (or romance) in games. That's not to say that writing is easy, or that there is a clear cut answer on how to do it right. Taking gay characters as an example, for some people it's not real representation unless the depiction also tackles the modern or period appropriate experience of being gay, while others would prefer that characters can just be gay without having to deal with that poo poo because they have enough of that in their own lives already. Representation, like people, is not monolithic. All that being said, I'm a straight white dude, so my opinion on anything ain't worth anything. Also you have to be aware how framing representation as "quotas" comes across.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:29
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Lost Planet 3 is the only other game I can think of like that off the type of my head. *Edit* And I just remembered King's Quest too.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:29
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Accordion Man posted:navel gazing, pretentious, shallow nihilism I'm beginning to think you don't actually know the meaning of any of these words.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:33
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chumbler posted:Also you have to be aware how framing representation as "quotas" comes across. true. i just hate the idea of anyone being told what they must or must not write about, so i'm just predisposed to opposing anything i interpret like that. you know how it is brah, absolute freedom Fur20 fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 20:33
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Oxxidation posted:I'm beginning to think you don't actually know the meaning of any of these words. It feels like a completely different writing team made that ending when you compare it to stuff like Kate.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:35
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Accordion Man posted:I do, because I don't just throw them around. LiS ending's is pretentious and tries to be deep with all the grace of a high-schooler. The Kate scene was good in the sense that it foreshadowed the ending of the game but was howlingly amateur otherwise. I mean, it came from a place of good intentions so I can't get too mad about it, but talk about turning tragedy into farce.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:36
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Accordion Man posted:They're not though. Nathan is a presence from the very beginning and the first four episodes bring up what Sean is doing way too many times for it just to be a pointless red herring. The spirit doe is also given a good deal of importance more in the first couple of episodes and was clearly tying into the corruption of the town but it just becomes an afterthought when they changed the ending last minute. The Jefferson stuff I'm pretty sure was there from the start (there are hints as early as the first two episodes). Though interestingly enough there was apparently going to be a third ending choice at some point (referred to by the fanbase as the "Hospital Ending"). I've heard conflicting reports about this but either it involved Chloe still getting shot but surviving or Max intervening and taking the bullet herself. Either way, as a result the storm is still stopped and both girls live.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:36
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Oxxidation posted:The Kate scene was good in the sense that it foreshadowed the ending of the game but was howlingly amateur otherwise. Not sure I've ever disagreed with an opinion quite as strongly
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Jan 6, 2018 20:37
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lol if you didn't recognize Jefferson as a grade-A supercreep within ten seconds of his introduction
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Jan 6, 2018 20:38
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Sakurazuka posted:Not sure I've ever disagreed with an opinion quite as strongly oh i can find you another, i had to put up with someone else i knew raging about this thing for days because he thought it was so badly written it was an insult against actual suicidal people
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Jan 6, 2018 20:39
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lol
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Jan 6, 2018 20:40
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For what its worth my bi transgender sister hates Bioware and thinks their character writers are "pandering idiots with no actual grasp on the struggles of marginalized people". She really doesn't like them. Personally I don't have much of an opinion on it beyond thinking all of Bioware's modern writing suck.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:46
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I'm still into Dragon Age. Although I don't know how much hope I have with Bioware going forward, esp since now they've been sicced with the corporate role of making EA's Destiny competitor
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Jan 6, 2018 20:52
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chumbler posted:Bioware's writing being lovely isn't really an argument against representation (or romance) in games. That's not to say that writing is easy, or that there is a clear cut answer on how to do it right. Taking gay characters as an example, for some people it's not real representation unless the depiction also tackles the modern or period appropriate experience of being gay, while others would prefer that characters can just be gay without having to deal with that poo poo because they have enough of that in their own lives already. Representation, like people, is not monolithic. All that being said, I'm a straight white dude, so my opinion on anything ain't worth anything. No singular work/character is ever gonna be all-encompassing "perfect rep", and such a thing doesn't really exist imo. Which isn't to say that you shouldn't criticise or react to works in your own way, but why takes like "fallout guy is gay but you'd only know if you pick his dialogue tree, this is Perfect Rep" are goofy and corporations going "hey we made An LGBT character, please clap" are never gonna be wholly satisfying. There's a wide variety of needs, interests, and experiences that'll only be served when we have a wide variety of creators making varied works.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:54
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man i've really dug some people's interpretations of arcade ganon by being bad at reading characters in fallout: new vegas when i was 16
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Jan 6, 2018 20:57
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It really comes down to just having decent writers who are capable of writing multidimensional characters to begin with
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Jan 6, 2018 20:59
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