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Pener Kropoopkin posted:the mechanisms are there, is the point. the Cuban system developed in a context where no one country built socialism alone, which is why they took such a big hit from the Soviet Union going belly up. but still Cuba has been the most resilient, and hasn't embraced marketization the way China and Vietnam did. It's embraced the dollar which has caused a huge divide between those who work in tourism and those who don't. 30% of Cubans are now self-employed. I agree that it's been far more resilient, but I think "anti-imperialism" is an ideological red herring as opposed to a structural term in characterizing Cuba's economy
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Jan 12, 2018 23:00
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Yossarian-22 posted:Venezuela accounts for like 21% of Cuba's GDP and its tanking is set to cause inevitable austerity measures, for one thing socialist countries engage in trade, huh? e: https://twitter.com/ClassicCommie/status/951562588571267073 Pener Kropoopkin fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 23:02
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:also, anti-imperialism does exist in one country, and that country is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea i'd have said the crystal meth they flood the rest of asia with counts
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Jan 12, 2018 23:05
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:the mechanisms are there, is the point. the Cuban system developed in a context where no one country built socialism alone, which is why they took such a big hit from the Soviet Union going belly up. but still Cuba has been the most resilient, and hasn't embraced marketization the way China and Vietnam did. cuban socialism is designed more by us policy than anything else though it is a really bad case to learn any general lessons from, but a lot of individual pieces of policy have been successful in their context
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Jan 12, 2018 23:05
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:socialist countries engage in trade, huh? owning 20% of another country's economy isn't exactly normal "trade" and as you yourself have said, venezuela isn't really socialist granted, cuba only does that out of necessity due to the embargo and fall of the ussr, but the point is that a third world country cannot exist abstract of global capital and modern forms of hegemonic imperialist relationships
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Jan 12, 2018 23:07
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Jose posted:i'd have said the crystal meth they flood the rest of asia with counts nothing in the rulebook says a "socialist" country can't specialize. Flooding the capitalist economies of east asia with high quality shabushabu is the chemical warfare of anti-imperialism. Yossarian-22 posted:owning 20% of another country's economy isn't exactly normal "trade" and as you yourself have said, venezuela isn't really socialist sources of GDP aren't the same thing as outright ownership, and you're confusing the terms. It's certainly not normal that so much of Cuba's economy depends on business with a single particular ideologically sympathetic country in their own backyard, because of the restrictions placed upon them by the United States. Pener Kropoopkin fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 23:08
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Jose posted:i'd have said the crystal meth they flood the rest of asia with counts Mighty hypocritical for a capitalist to criticise a country for providing goods that are in high demand.
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Jan 12, 2018 23:14
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they could do it with a less destructive drug
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Jan 12, 2018 23:24
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Jose posted:they could do it with a less destructive drug Pener Kropoopkin posted:the chemical warfare of anti-imperialism.
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Jan 12, 2018 23:25
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china has the right idea flooding the US with fentanyl
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Jan 12, 2018 23:26
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:nothing in the rulebook says a "socialist" country can't specialize. The vast majority of that is via direct foreign investment, which prevents any kind of true economic nationalism. Only, in Cuba's case we're talking about extreme dependency on an oil export capitalist economy rather than on financial institutions demanding austerity, but as it turns out that's a distinction and not a difference
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Jan 12, 2018 23:33
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So you have: - 20% of the economy being imports or direct foreign investment from Venezuela - Only 74% of the local economy being state owned - Most of that 74% being increasingly for service, the most lucrative part of which is tourism which has created a more tiered class structure Sounds like "socialism" and "anti-imperialism" to me
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Jan 12, 2018 23:36
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The early Soviet economy also depended on foreign labor and grain exports. If the standard of socialism and anti-imperialism is the complete destruction of global capitalism, then there's no basis for resistance to start in any reality. This is little more than another variation on the "you say you hate capitalism, but you're using an iphone to do it" canard.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:00
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Yossarian-22 posted:So you have: wow ONLY 74 percent. do better cuba — a white "leftist" in the united states
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Jan 13, 2018 00:51
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R. Guyovich posted:wow ONLY 74 percent. do better cuba — a white "leftist" in the united states if only they read about Che, the real bootstraps that trained the military and handled the finances
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Jan 13, 2018 01:12
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Fidel Podcastro
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Jan 13, 2018 01:16
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Pod Save Cuba
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Jan 13, 2018 01:19
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here's a long read on the Angolan anti-colonial struggle. Castro comes off quite well in this saga.
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Jan 13, 2018 01:27
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i'd rather be a tankie than a yankee
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Jan 13, 2018 01:32
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Odobenidae posted:i'd rather be a tankie than a yanqui
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Jan 13, 2018 01:33
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Tankie Doodle went to town a-riding on his pony
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Jan 13, 2018 01:38
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Yossarian-22 posted:So you have: I wish all anti-communists were as openly dumb as this
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Jan 13, 2018 02:42
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https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/951998749659803648 Tacit admission that Israel is not a democracy?
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Jan 13, 2018 04:18
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Has any nation seriously tried Strasserism. Just bringing the idea forward.
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Jan 13, 2018 05:08
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Odobenidae posted:i'd rather be a tankie than a yankee
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Jan 13, 2018 05:10
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Actually Existing Strasserism
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Jan 13, 2018 05:13
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Jan 13, 2018 05:19
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Plutonis posted:Has any nation seriously tried Strasserism. Just bringing the idea forward. What do you think the S in DSA stands for?
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Jan 13, 2018 05:24
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Dreddout posted:What do you think the S in DSA stands for? 
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Jan 13, 2018 05:27
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Plutonis posted:Has any nation seriously tried Strasserism. Just bringing the idea forward.
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Jan 13, 2018 06:02
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Tesseraction posted:I wish all anti-communists were as openly dumb as this I am a communist, who happens to be against norweigan state capitalism and cuban state capitalism alike  communism isn't a spectrum whereby a certain amount of state ownership makes you communist. it isn't based on claims of "anti-imperialism" or the ideology of the party leadership cuba is a relatively successful third world social democracy with a harsh dictatorship. that's it. funny how tankies become like liberals with idpol when you throw a wrench into the "anti-imperialist" facade
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Jan 13, 2018 07:55
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Plutonis posted:Has any nation seriously tried Strasserism. Just bringing the idea forward. hmmm okay the Nazi adjacency is bad, disregard gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 10:25
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welp
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Jan 13, 2018 10:29
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there was a strasserite who used to come into the UK thread in DnD idk if he still posts though
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Jan 13, 2018 10:56
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Jose posted:there was a strasserite who used to come into the UK thread in DnD idk if he still posts though Was that “The Saurus”? I think he got perma’d.
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Jan 13, 2018 11:41
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SSJ goku wilders. saurus was a racist trump supporter who claimed to be a communist or something who couldn't vote for trump since he was british
Jose fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 12:09
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gradenko_2000 posted:
Gotcha!!!!
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Jan 13, 2018 13:21
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"i'm sorry, i'm sorry, i'm trying to remove it" — hitler, the night of the long knives
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Jan 13, 2018 15:12
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gradenko_2000 posted:
The first google result is the Wikipedia article beginning with "Strasserism (German: Strasserismus or Straßerismus) is a strand of Nazism..." and the second is Stormfront. So I guess I am kinda curious where you looked this up?
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Jan 13, 2018 15:22
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GunnerJ posted:The first google result is the Wikipedia article beginning with "Strasserism (German: Strasserismus or Straßerismus) is a strand of Nazism..." and the second is Stormfront. I was basing my initial impression off of a Hearts of Iron mod that allowed Germany to switch to it, which in retrospect was probably not the most unbiased source.
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Jan 13, 2018 15:25
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