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alf_pogs
Feb 15, 2012


Tuxedo Catfish posted:

I'm just generally disappointed in any first- or third-person action game that doesn't let you jump at the press of a button, honestly.

yeah i can dig it. the recent Tomb Raiders were heaps of fun to jump around in,

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The Colonel
Jun 8, 2013


I commute by bike!
ah, the bulletstorm argument

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

Palpek posted:

Wow, somebody finally played through Beyond Two Souls and made notes.
The Super Best Friends did and yet it was not in their power to report this to authorities themselves.

thehoodie
Feb 8, 2011

"Eat something made with love and joy - and be forgiven"
Has this article been posted here yet? Fan Nonfiction: Heroic tales about video-game production mask how the hobby holds both its audience and performers captive.

While the author's critiques of the video game development industry are likely on point, he really pigeonholes these issues (overworking employees, few benefits, etc) as somehow exclusive to the gaming industry, which is most definitely not true.

Then there is his discussion of video games themselves, which makes me think that he has never actually played a video game:

quote:

Many of the games in the book are sequels—The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, Dragon Age: Inquisition, Diablo III, Uncharted 4: A Thief’s End. The ones that aren’t are such thorough mimic jobs that they make the distinction between original and serial meaningless. Stardew Valley, for instance, is an elaborate attempt to make an updated version of Harvest Moon, a popular series of chibi-farming games. “I just wanted to play another game that was exactly like the first two Harvest Moons, but just with different people and a different map,” developer Eric Barone says. The developers of Shovel Knight began with the idea to emulate an entire company instead of a single game. “I remember saying, ‘I got into the industry to make Nintendo games. Let’s make a Nintendo game,” designer Dave D’Angelo says.

There’s an impression of insularity and self-reference in all of these stories. Each account is wreathed in the essential tautology of fan thinking. Video games are important because people care about them, and people care about them because they’re important. It’s lava levels and nostalgia all the way down. This is an echo of the circular dynamic between consumption and creation that Roland Barthes described in Criticism and Truth: “How many writers have written, only because they have read? How many critics have read only in order to write?” One could say, the reason fans play video games is so they’ll be better equipped to make them one day. And when one crosses the border from fan to designer, they’re often motivated, Barone admits, to make games for an audience of their imagined former selves.

quote:

In these times, the most important task of game journalism isn’t to serve a public interest but to ensure that fans can continue to identify some version of themselves in the games they have played, and ensure future releases will allow them access to even deeper levels of self-expression and understanding. In playing the next game, owning the newest console, having an opinion on the latest patch, we feel like we can become stabler versions of ourselves, all at the cost of clearing out space—both mental and financial—for open-ended consumption of a form without any purpose beyond this increasingly tautological pleasure. This process is necessarily dehumanizing. Games matter because you are here to play them, and you remain here to play them because they matter.

Maybe this is why, with video games, we break from the tradition of identifying people with particular pastimes as lovers—bibliophile, cinephile, audiophile. To love video games is to become not a ludophile but a gamer, a claim on identity rather than a statement of personal interest. Every fact or feeling in our lives that doesn’t relate to games is an extraneous detail, so much so that it can feel like one’s whole life might be beside the point.

Anyway, it makes me real mad so I thought I should post about it here so you folks can confirm my opinion that this article is bad and dumb.

Or, just ignore me an play video games. You'll be happier for it.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
What a bunch of hand-wringing high school philosophy nonsense lol. That reads exactly like someone who found out the article had to be over a thousand words or it can't be published but they've only got 500 written so they need to insert some smart-sounding words and phrases to force it over the finish line

quote:

In playing the next game, owning the newest console, having an opinion on the latest patch, we feel like we can become stabler versions of ourselves, all at the cost of clearing out space—both mental and financial—for open-ended consumption of a form without any purpose beyond this increasingly tautological pleasure. This process is necessarily dehumanizing. Games matter because you are here to play them, and you remain here to play them because they matter.

Like, seriously, what does this mean. What are they actually saying here. What factual demonstrable evidence do they have that this mental process is not just common, but even the case at all anywhere in the first place? (spoilers the answer is none and nothing but it sure sounds real smart and says that Actchually The Thing You Like Is Bad For You so they dropped it in)

Accordion Man
Nov 7, 2012


Buglord
Video games are the only medium where sequels tend to be better on average because of improvement in mechanics and stuff like that too.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



The New Inquiry is a publication of radical cultural critique and aimed at people who are immersed in critical theory -- not saying that makes them better or worse but it's for a specific audience and even though I tend to agree with them in the broad strokes I find their contributors to be relentlessly cynical and actually enervating to read. Like the thesis of the article is basically a straight line from things you'd find in what's called the Frankfurt School, and this is basically using the idea of the "culture industry" which they discussed. The main thing it boils down to is the idea that mass consumer culture both homogenizes people and depoliticizes them by distracting them and making them invest tons of emotional energy in things that are ultimately meaningless while they remain politically oppressed and economically exploited.

While I haven't read the book, Schreier is very much a boots-on-the-ground reporter so I could totally see him being politically-detached in a way that would mean the book doesn't address certain issues, but I am of the mind that a critic should use that opportunity to build alternatives and expand on things instead of tearing other authors down, but TNI usually goes for the latter

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

thehoodie posted:

Has this article been posted here yet?.

this article is garbo, where can i go to personally tell the writer to suck my gently caress?

axelblaze
Oct 18, 2006

Congratulations The One Concern!!!

You're addicted to Ivory!!

and...oh my...could you please...
oh my...

Grimey Drawer
I like the part where he disparages binder games for having influences. Certainly you can't make something original if it's influenced by something else. Other industries are nothing but entirely new ideas made in a vacuum.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


This article reads like the first-year undergrad comp lit papers I see all the time. Unclear thesis, poor command of lofty terminology, weakly connects evidence to analysis. I give it a C-, see me after class.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames
Prisoner in the Microworld is the best piece of writing about video games ever. It's a book-length description of one flustered dad's obsession with Breakout for the Atari 2600, and it's fascinating.

Expect My Mom
Nov 18, 2013

by Smythe
I'd be that dad if I were born when Breakout came out

I love Breakout

homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007

oxygen not included is not a particularly hard game, but its very stressful to me. its the kind of game where planning ahead is kind of difficult so I find myself cobbling poo poo together as I need it in an incredibly messy way, and then an hour later just having the impulse to blow my poo poo up and start over from scratch to make it look prettier. for now I will resist, but as I try to find a place to tie into my sewage system so I can grow poo poo plants the urge builds once more...

thehoodie
Feb 8, 2011

"Eat something made with love and joy - and be forgiven"

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

The New Inquiry is a publication of radical cultural critique and aimed at people who are immersed in critical theory -- not saying that makes them better or worse but it's for a specific audience and even though I tend to agree with them in the broad strokes I find their contributors to be relentlessly cynical and actually enervating to read. Like the thesis of the article is basically a straight line from things you'd find in what's called the Frankfurt School, and this is basically using the idea of the "culture industry" which they discussed. The main thing it boils down to is the idea that mass consumer culture both homogenizes people and depoliticizes them by distracting them and making them invest tons of emotional energy in things that are ultimately meaningless while they remain politically oppressed and economically exploited.

Yeah except its a very facile rendering of the concept of cultural industry, and the article is missing the most biting (in theory) aspect of it, which is the capitalist economic underpinnings, even though that is obviously the critique he is trying to make by condemning the working conditions of the game development industry. Like, I actually think the article has some valid points, but it is just a terrible rendition of whatever theories it's drawing on. And I am still convinced he has never actually played a video game.

Anyway, this is the video game thread so I tried to avoid talking about critical theory.

Also:

quote:

Michael Thomsen is a writer in New York. His work has appeared in the New Yorker, the New York Times, Slate, the New Republic, and the Washington Post.

Motto
Aug 3, 2013

I mean, it's true that videogames are by definition commercialized timewasters with a segment of consumers that strongly and sometimes violently identify by them.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

thehoodie posted:

even though that is obviously the critique he is trying to make by condemning the working conditions of the game development industry.

if he's criticizing working conditions then why is he quoting developers who cooked their games in their garages on their own time? if this is really the case then he's a disingenuous pig in human skin

Stallion Cabana
Feb 14, 2012
1; Get into Grad School

2; Become better at playing Tabletop, both as a player and as a GM/ST/W/E

3; Get rid of this goddamn avatar.
I've been playing Slay the Spire and it is amazingly fun. I have a bad problem with it where once I decide on a deck strategy from my first couple of packs I just stick to it even though I ignore really good cards because they don't fit my synergy, which often makes me lose, but once I get a streamlined, short deck that does exactly what I want I can cleave through everything.

axelblaze
Oct 18, 2006

Congratulations The One Concern!!!

You're addicted to Ivory!!

and...oh my...could you please...
oh my...

Grimey Drawer
I played and beat Rime and overall it was a very good Ico/Journey-esque game that is not nearly as good as either of those but overall still seems to be a very overlooked game given that it was still really good. It doesn't really stick the landing (what ti's actually trying to say is kind of trite and it doesn't say it very well) but it's constantly gorgeous and immersive and the story seems really well told until you realize what it's actually getting at.

I played it on the PS4 and it had a few frame hiccups but I heard the Switch version is broken to an almost WWE level

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

I loaded up RimWorld for the first time in ages, and was enjoying all of the new content the last few patches brought in. Then I ran into a colonist with a weird and spiteful backstory description that is 100% the product of some backer’s fetish and I don’t want to play anymore

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014

I can sort of understand that criticism of insularity in games, needless repetition of the same few ideas can obviously get tiresome. The talk about dehumanization though really loses me.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused

Jay Rust posted:

I loaded up RimWorld for the first time in ages, and was enjoying all of the new content the last few patches brought in. Then I ran into a colonist with a weird and spiteful backstory description that is 100% the product of some backer’s fetish and I don’t want to play anymore

You can't say that and not share what it was.

Expect My Mom
Nov 18, 2013

by Smythe
playing fire emblem feels like Work and i think i'll stop playing video games forever after this

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


Stallion Cabana posted:

I've been playing Slay the Spire and it is amazingly fun. I have a bad problem with it where once I decide on a deck strategy from my first couple of packs I just stick to it even though I ignore really good cards because they don't fit my synergy, which often makes me lose, but once I get a streamlined, short deck that does exactly what I want I can cleave through everything.

i'm seeing a lot of people talk about this game all of a sudden, what's the hype

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

Internet Kraken posted:

You can't say that and not share what it was.

A vatgrown slave girl who got sold into sex slavery, the description also makes sure to tell us that she was too weak to fight back :raise:

There are few backstories like this. Another is about a music idol who becomes her dad’s sexual companion after her mother dies, then later becomes a renowned prostitute? Like, does your game about building wind turbines, hunting sloths and growing rice need this?

Stallion Cabana
Feb 14, 2012
1; Get into Grad School

2; Become better at playing Tabletop, both as a player and as a GM/ST/W/E

3; Get rid of this goddamn avatar.

Ciaphas posted:

i'm seeing a lot of people talk about this game all of a sudden, what's the hype

NothernLion played it on his channel and his streaming group all started streaming it, then AdmiralBahroo also started streaming it.

oddium
Feb 21, 2006

end of the 4.5 tatami age

Jay Rust posted:

A vatgrown slave girl who got sold into sex slavery, the description also makes sure to tell us that she was too weak to fight back :raise:

There are few backstories like this. Another is about a music idol who becomes her dad’s sexual companion after her mother dies, then later becomes a renowned prostitute? Like, does your game about building wind turbines, hunting sloths and growing rice need this?

i dunno does the game about men being binary gay or straight but all women being a little bicurious need that

thehoodie
Feb 8, 2011

"Eat something made with love and joy - and be forgiven"

The White Dragon posted:

if he's criticizing working conditions then why is he quoting developers who cooked their games in their garages on their own time? if this is really the case then he's a disingenuous pig in human skin

I should have said that's the argument he should be making. Because otherwise his argument is just "video games cause cultural depravation" for some reason. Which is probably his actual argument. So it's just a bad article.

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




nachos posted:

lmao at trying to play fighting games on that switch d pad

Its good for pokken cause its all direction+button but it SUCKS for streetfighter oh god

Jay Rust
Sep 27, 2011

oddium posted:

i dunno does the game about men being binary gay or straight but all women being a little bicurious need that

Yeah shame the game’s fun, I’m powerless :(

FirstAidKite
Nov 8, 2009

Expect My Mom posted:

I'd be that dad if I were born when Breakout came out

I love Breakout

You ever heard of the game Strikey Sisters?

Or Shatter? I mean, Shatter's more likely, I think Shatter got around.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused
Rimworld should just take a page from Dwarf Fortress and have everything about the characters be proceduraly generated, including their sexual orientation.

FirstAidKite
Nov 8, 2009

homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007

Internet Kraken posted:

Rimworld should just take a page from Dwarf Fortress and have everything about the characters be proceduraly generated, including their sexual orientation.
to fall into the crowdfunding trap of letting your backers put bullshit in your game, is to die

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!

Motto posted:

I mean, it's true that videogames are by definition commercialized timewasters with a segment of consumers that strongly and sometimes violently identify by them.

Yeah but he's saying that's a bad thing and also every individual part of that is bad and he's wrong on both counts. Video games are timewasters the same as any activity that doesn't directly contribute to the society you live in is, so fuckin what

edit: And I'd even say that he's correct that they serve as a medium for focusing your attention toward gaming or specific video games that hold your interest and away from societal issues and the world around you, but he for some reason thinks that's not 100% a choice you actively decide to make when you put in the disc or load up steam

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jan 16, 2018

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



Even that much is kind of bollocks because we know full well that humans need entertainment and diversion to stay sane. Sure there's people like goons who get really really into gaming but that's a choice we make, regular folks aren't shorting society of their contributions by loving around Fus Ro Dah-ing people off Valtheim Towers, they're taking care of themselves so that they can contribute to society. On top of which I kind of think the titanic structural elements that have made the world the hosed-up place it is aren't going to suddenly be vastly more vulnerable because we stop video gamesing.* Nothing he said is unique to video games, he's just singling them out because it's still easier than making the case against movies and novels these days.

* Unless it turns out global capital has an obvious glowing red weak spot or something.

Instruction Manuel
May 15, 2007

Yes, it is what it looks like!


Lol, Lokum is a goon. Wait....Lokum=Lowtax :eyepop:

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014

Hell Gem

glam rock hamhock posted:

I like the part where he disparages binder games for having influences. Certainly you can't make something original if it's influenced by something else. Other industries are nothing but entirely new ideas made in a vacuum.

That part is entirely bewildering. :psyduck:

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



Ms Adequate posted:

Even that much is kind of bollocks because we know full well that humans need entertainment and diversion to stay sane. Sure there's people like goons who get really really into gaming but that's a choice we make, regular folks aren't shorting society of their contributions by loving around Fus Ro Dah-ing people off Valtheim Towers, they're taking care of themselves so that they can contribute to society. On top of which I kind of think the titanic structural elements that have made the world the hosed-up place it is aren't going to suddenly be vastly more vulnerable because we stop video gamesing.* Nothing he said is unique to video games, he's just singling them out because it's still easier than making the case against movies and novels these days.

* Unless it turns out global capital has an obvious glowing red weak spot or something.

Yeah, this is one of the major problems with anyone taking an unreconstructed Frankfurt School-style approach to culture, it always carries a smugness about socially-valid uses of personal time. Video games continue to be an easy target for this even as they become more generally socially acceptable (I read an article recently that speculated that young Americans' skepticism of assault weapons ban legislation was because Call of Duty normalizes them? :confused: ) because as an industry and set of communities they totally do have huge swaths of regressive attitudes and terrible people. I think it's more productive to take the Waypoint-style approach to things and say that because games are actually meaningful to people, a valid use of time, and an important form of expression, that you combat that poo poo from within rather than tsk-tsking from the outside

alf_pogs
Feb 15, 2012


bunch of ten dollar words and nice theories are redundant when put alongside mick gordon's soundtrack to DOOM at maximum volume

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Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014

If whatever critical theory we're complaining about could make this loving headache I have right now go away then oh boy I would be signing up for U. of Frankfurt this instant.

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