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cinci zoo sniper posted:Yeah advice is a bit late but much appreciated Your exec axe was fragile, so all you could have done was get 10-12 throwing. If I don't find a flaming weapon 6-8 throwing+heroism is usually my hydra killer. You can also train evocations for your ranged attacks, 8-10 is good enough to take out a hydra. Depends on if you've found javelins or damage wands. With Oka or Trog training ranged has two downsides. First, since weapon gifts are weighted by skill (0 skill weapons still have a low weighting which is why you can get weird weapons), so you might get a +9 freezing hand xbow instead of an exec axe. Second, you will get ammo gifts which will slightly reduce your other gifts (they are on a much faster timer though). So I usually won't train a ranged weapon until maybe the first rune unless I find a great ranged weapon early. Mino fighters have plenty of XP to spare. I usually just put 10 pts into crossbow for a hand crossbow, if you happen to find a great bow or crossbow you can train it to min delay. It's not going to do great damage but I find it can help all the way through Zot. Hand xbows work with shields, too.
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Jan 19, 2018 21:04
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I totally ignored ranged stuff (how far should I train it?). 
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No one but formicids have any business using shields. Edit: And maybe Naga stabbers.
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Jan 19, 2018 21:13
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Thank you all for tips!
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Jan 19, 2018 21:28
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PMush Perfect posted:No one but formicids have any business using shields. Untrue and unfun.
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Jan 19, 2018 21:56
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Araganzar posted:Untrue and unfun. Edit: Or other large races. Or pure casters with bucklers. Or...
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Jan 19, 2018 22:36
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shields are good period, on basically any melee character. after playing a whole ton of characters with and without shields, IMO whether the upsides of a shield are worth not having a 2H weapon is pretty subjective-and if you don't yet have a worthwhile 2H weapon, and aren't casting spells, there's no reason to not have a shield other than not having one. a normal shield is worth wearing even with no shield skill, and a large shield is worth it starting at like ~15 in my experience.
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Jan 19, 2018 22:49
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IronicDongz posted:shields are good period, on basically any melee character. after playing a whole ton of characters with and without shields, IMO whether the upsides of a shield are worth not having a 2H weapon is pretty subjective-and if you don't yet have a worthwhile 2H weapon, and aren't casting spells, there's no reason to not have a shield other than not having one. a normal shield is worth wearing even with no shield skill, and a large shield is worth it starting at like ~15 in my experience. If you are casting spells it takes so much less experience to get the best 1 handed weapons to min-delay that you should use one of those and a buckler then use the spare xp to cast better spells.
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Jan 19, 2018 23:15
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PMush Perfect posted:No one but formicids have any business using shields. Gnolls benefit pretty well since they'll be training the skill regardless of whatever else is happening.
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Jan 20, 2018 03:53
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they can't use really huge weapons until super late anyway
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Jan 20, 2018 05:11
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So, just DL'd .21 and gave it a whirl, instead of just reading about it. My latest install was .19.5, egad! First few attempts at gnoll skalds where cute, but I constantly overestimate how strong they are at tabbing. They are not strong at tabbing. Ash is also a terrible terrible choice, shame on whoever recommended it. Being able to swap weapons into new toys is their entire schtick, cursing weapons is a terribad idea. Oka was more productive, but it felt like I had used oka too much to be having novel experiences. So, after splatting my second Gnoll somwhere in Lair I fired up my olde favorite in order to see the new mechanics: MiMo^Oka, focusing on this newfangled longswords and the evade/riposte mechanic. And evocables, I never really got onboard that whole evocable train. I really should have been taking notes, but random recollections: ->Scarves sounded dumb on paper, but it's good and cool that they drop so early (D1!!) with such strong effects. Cloaks really seem to be unrandart or bust for this run. ->Training objectives are the logical end result of manual training, and are amazinggg. Such a good QoL feature. ->Wand stacking is nice. ->Even with pumping dex, and having armour&evasion at equal levels at all times, it's really hard to push EV over AC. Almost any given piece of armour gives better AC+EV by murdering the EV unfairly, which sucks for mister dex. ->I'm still getting used to dragon armours dropping whole. Mottled being turned into Acid-proof is nice, I didn't use Shadow as it was too heavy, and Quicksilver was absolutely perfect. Looked good on paper, hit the spot perfect for a 3-rune midweight armour. There is no such thing as too much MR. ->Speaking of MR, it's nice that Abyss lets you leave when you kill stuff now. I actually like Abyss a lot, and think it's 'finished' as-is. ->Even with 0 pts in stealth, enemies sure are oblivious with that much dex and not wearing heavy plate. Had to shout a lot. ->Weapons of choice where draining swords all the way, thanks to FloorGod. A draining longsword into a +9 draining double sword. I thought demon edges where supposed to be better? Maybe Eudemon blades? Draining is totally great for all branches including Zot. The whole "Cold brand is best brand" is totally overrated. Had more XP than I knew what to do with, so the xp loss was unnoticeable. Shields are still fine, the player has plenty of damage output with a solid one-hander. Riposte and Headbutt did about 30-50% of my dmg output, was fun. ->Enemies not respawning was kind of disappointing. Several branches lost a lot of their bite, knowing that I always had a clear path to the stairs. Orc, Elf, Vaults and Zot seemed much less foreboding. ->Evocables are total, irredeemable, hot trash. Even with pumping evo, they are never worth the inventory slot. They where usually not worth the action to activate. I tried the Fan, Phial, Lightning Rod, and a few others. Better just to hit things or walk to a choke. ->gently caress the lack of rMut, gently caress new mut potions, gently caress all of that. I got deformed body instantly within a few turns of Slime:1 (oh well), but I had teleportitus in Zot that I couldn't get rid of with 4 quaffs. That SUCKED. ->Zot gives an "Orb" effect upon walking down the stairs. I have no idea what this does, other than -ctele. At first I thought it was like Mark, as the entire Zot:1 descended upon me, but that was just my poor luck. Couldn't find any description of it's effect in A, @, nor %? ...There's probably a bunch of other small stuff regarding new changes that I had an opinion on, but I forgot it. Shoulda had a notepad open, oh well. MiMo^Oka, pump skills to 22 and use heroism, sword&board. 4 runes, skipped Abyss&Tomb. Very vanilla.
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Jan 20, 2018 12:17
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Serephina posted:First few attempts at gnoll skalds where cute, but I constantly overestimate how strong they are at tabbing. They are not strong at tabbing. Ash is also a terrible terrible choice, shame on whoever recommended it. Being able to swap weapons into new toys is their entire schtick, cursing weapons is a terribad idea. I think I've cursed a weapon in maybe one Ash game. I would use Ash for armor, dodging, shields, casting chance, and spellpower. Oka is still likely strictly superior due to heroism increasing all combat stats and the crazy weapon gifts you get as gnoll. Oka also helps you through early D and Lair while Ash takes a good while to ramp up, especially if it takes until Orc for you to say find a frigging hat.
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Jan 20, 2018 15:24
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As well, Draining doesn't reduce experience gained from a monster hit by its effect. It used to have a negligible effect years ago when it was reducing maxHP permanently but it was never as extreme as summon kills.
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Jan 20, 2018 15:54
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Hahaha. Yeah, gnolls in general are absolutely not what you want to play if you just want to tab a lot. Too much of the power they're tuned around is grounded in needing to take advantage of everything you can think of in your bag of tricks and then some. That's supposed to be part of the charm! Phial and Lightning Rod both can do serious damage in my experience. Phantom Mirror also really good, although that's not a reason to level Evo. Rest of the fancy evokables I've always struggled to find a use for. Toadsmash fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 16:20
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Lamp is fantastic in long hallways, and the fan lets you neutralize a lot of dangerous situations (especially if you're a slow race)
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Jan 20, 2018 20:02
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Replace the fire wand with a wand of magic dart
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Jan 20, 2018 21:24
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Bring back the destructo disc
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Jan 20, 2018 21:31
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Samog posted:Replace the fire wand with a wand of magic dart Pls no, the fire wand is perfect to kill electrical eels with and magic dart is some worthless bullshit
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Jan 21, 2018 17:14
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Replace wind of digging with the Wand of the Boring Beetle
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Jan 21, 2018 17:21
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heard u like girls posted:Replace wind of digging with the Wand of the Boring Beetle I'll crush you with every undug rock if that happens.
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Jan 21, 2018 17:39
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You hear a grinding sound.
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Jan 21, 2018 21:39
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I'll crush you with every undug rock if that happens. what if... the beetle rolled?
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Jan 22, 2018 05:03
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Took some days off working on Gooncrawl to play some Path of Exile, but I'm back on it again. Progress update:
Stuff I still want to get done before v1.0:
The rest of the features left on the design document will move to the next version (and will be mandatory for that version). I'll figure out how to proceed on discussion of feature details and new polls for the next version after v1.0 is finished. I'll close the Blades of Disaster poll today (votes have stopped coming in), so vote if you haven't already: https://goo.gl/forms/oTgzmAkMKpmrbC203
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Jan 22, 2018 15:17
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I am very excited for when GoonCrawl gets a formal release. Nice work Floodkiller
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Jan 22, 2018 17:55
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If OoFs keep malmut, at least it'd be a very singular issue, only on Zot 5. I imagine that'd really only affect victory lap runs.
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Jan 22, 2018 21:05
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Floodkiller posted:Took some days off working on Gooncrawl to play some Path of Exile, but I'm back on it again. Progress update: I wouldn't shed a tear if shining eyes were outright removed. I mean, if their only purpose is to malmutate the poo poo out of the player and you're removing/reworking malmutate anyway, they feel kinda redundant. Also, keep up the stellar work!
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Jan 22, 2018 21:24
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Yeah malmutate only in Zot would be a kind of barrier that keeps Zot a final level, instead of clearing Zot then exploring HellPan (but of course you could still do the latter for the challenge). Beware, you are about to enter the fabled realm of Zot. Many an adventurer has wandered here and been... changed by the experience.
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Jan 22, 2018 21:25
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Change shining eyes and orbs of fire gaze attacks to fire off mutagenic clouds similar to the stoning ones from catoblepas. Bam, done, don't linger in them.
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Jan 22, 2018 21:34
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Malmutate is perfectly fine on Orbs of Fire. Give Shining Eyes Shadow Creatures in place of Malmutate 
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Jan 22, 2018 21:36
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My preferred shining eye fix is replacing them with wretched stars wholesale. Stars fit slime just fine imo
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Jan 22, 2018 22:55
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I know this will get shot down but what if instead of removing malmutate you just removed (or lowered) the bias towards bad mutations and made it all-random (or bit less likely to be bad, wiki says 80% bad, 20% random but it's from .17 and I dunno if that changed since) I kinda really like random mutations; I know well why I must never ever expose myself to IRL gambling; I'd fall for it badly. Teal fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jan 22, 2018 |
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Jan 22, 2018 23:13
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Teal posted:I know this will get shot down but what if instead of removing malmutate you just removed (or lowered) the bias towards bad mutations and made it all-random (or bit less likely to be bad, wiki says 80% bad, 20% random but it's from .17 and I dunno if that changed since) My hatred towards Malmutate is that it remains one of the few sources of permanent damage to characters in Crawl, and the damage it inflicts can be incredibly severe for even a single instance. I personally think that permanent damage is something that should be used extremely sparingly or not at all (at the very least, not by sources outside of the player's control). Being a monster spell does not really fit the definition of used sparingly. I'm okay with re-implementing all sorts of stuff I hate (I let item destruction on to the FR survey, even though it does the same thing but to a much lesser degree), but Malmutate is the sacred cow that I will gut and butcher with no regard for outside opinions. I just want to make sure the monsters still stay interesting after I take it from them.
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Jan 22, 2018 23:34
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I read that as Malamute and now I'm kind of disappointed
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Jan 22, 2018 23:36
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Malmutate as it is is definitely "extremely sparingly". It seems like more often not I don't get any malmutations outside of Zot. Item destruction was harsh because you had to always be vigilant, malmutators have been rare since monster polymorph was changed. (I don't do extended though, maybe that's the difference.) No worries though, my fork would disregard your opinions on my religious beliefs, as well.
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Jan 22, 2018 23:37
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Malmutate as it is is definitely "extremely sparingly". It seems like more often not I don't get any malmutations outside of Zot. Item destruction was harsh because you had to always be vigilant, malmutators have been rare since monster polymorph was changed. (I don't do extended though, maybe that's the difference.) Cacodemons and neqoxecs basically ruin Malmutate, which is why I'm okay with pressing ahead with v1.0 with just those two changed at the moment. I can take a look again and see if it's worth going back for orbs of fire or shining eyes after seeing how annoyed I get with Malmutate at that point.
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Jan 22, 2018 23:43
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Hey! This is a thread! It's been a while. Had a pretty good tournament even though I've been burnt out on DCSS and thought I might not play. 3 wins: MiBe (my first, somehow), DsWn of Yred, and GnAM of Lugonu (through a faded altar). Knocked a couple of things off the great(er)player lists, somehow didn't die after getting a rune on any character, so I'm fairly happy. I still really need to work on turncount and play time, plus I haven't even seen the new Tomb, but I'm still feeling a little burnt out, so I don't know if I'm going to play (much) until the next tournament.
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Jan 22, 2018 23:50
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I will say, speaking as someone who is real bad at Crawl, I'm excited to still be bad but with more hijinks involved. Any estimation when 1.0 will come?
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Jan 22, 2018 23:52
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Floodkiller posted:My hatred towards Malmutate is that it remains one of the few sources of permanent damage to characters in Crawl, and the damage it inflicts can be incredibly severe for even a single instance. I personally think that permanent damage is something that should be used extremely sparingly or not at all (at the very least, not by sources outside of the player's control). Being a monster spell does not really fit the definition of used sparingly. Just spitballing here; feel free to disregard; but how hard would it be to make sure malmutate would always check your number of negative mutation ranks and never rise that number of total bad mut ranks above 1 or 2 or 3, and if you already have a negative mutation just switch it to another negative mutation? I mean, I get that some mutations like Deterioration are EXTREMELY annoying (can we just remove Deterioration?) but most of the tier 1 bad mutations don't sound all that irrecoverable from, particularly if you also had a chance of getting some good ones from it.
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Jan 22, 2018 23:53
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Smallest, fun-est change to malmutate: just have it use the effects of a monster using a wand of poly on you (MR checks?). Congratulations, you are now a piggie. Run pig, run! edit: or keep malmutate, but have it check MR. There are hundreds of ways of fixing it. I just think that the poly-wand change is loving brilliant, and it's such a shame that it's so rare to see it in action Serephina fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jan 23, 2018 |
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Jan 23, 2018 00:50
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Serephina posted:Smallest, fun-est change to malmutate: just have it use the effects of a monster using a wand of poly on you (MR checks?). Congratulations, you are now a piggie. Run pig, run! Can we do that instead?
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Jan 23, 2018 01:00
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| # ? May 24, 2024 01:56 |
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Serephina posted:Smallest, fun-est change to malmutate: just have it use the effects of a monster using a wand of poly on you (MR checks?). Congratulations, you are now a piggie. Run pig, run! That sounds like it might work for shining eyes, so I'll keep it in mind. Orbs of fire would probably be way too insane with that (monster spellpower is based on HD, so you'd probably need 4+ pips of MR to resist it and a bad polymorph would be awful while fighting orbs of fire).
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Jan 23, 2018 01:07
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