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It was more Dukat is a great character, in that he is an utterly evil person who has no idea of the vile nature of his action, that his self delusion is so deep that he honestly thinks he is a force of good and is beloved. I think there's good comedy in that, and honestly, I can't think of anyone else who could pull that off.
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Jan 26, 2018 04:48
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The incredibly elaborate season-long joke where the random black dude at the helm becomes the chief engineer for some reason was a hell of a good Trek reference.
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Jan 26, 2018 04:48
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Grand Fromage posted:The incredibly elaborate season-long joke where the random black dude at the helm becomes the chief engineer for some reason was a hell of a good Trek reference. 
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Jan 26, 2018 05:08
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Grand Fromage posted:The incredibly elaborate season-long joke where the random black dude at the helm becomes the chief engineer for some reason was a hell of a good Trek reference. holy poo poo I never actually got that
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Jan 26, 2018 07:27
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Aleph Null posted:Jeffrey Coombs would be a perfect "Barkley" analog. Call him Dr West, though.  I have complete faith. He always gives 100%
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Jan 26, 2018 07:42
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Beachcomber posted:
Not the right Barkley but I like where your head's at.
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Jan 26, 2018 08:30
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Pyroi posted:the Union's version of the Enterprise. Isn't this the Olympia? Also, I wish they would show more ships.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:18
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ExtraNoise posted:Isn't this the Olympia? Some of the bootleg spaceship miniatures studios have already started making Orville stuff, they definitely need more official designs to work from. For example, https://studiobergstrom.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=94 His stuff is pretty good, I have some of his BSG minis.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:23
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‘The Orville’ Isn’t For Everyone, But It’s Better Sci-Fi Than Critics Thinkquote:Fans immediately saw what critics didn’t. The show is not a parody at all. “The Orville” is its own earnest show about humans in space, without the Rodenberry directive that humans have “evolved.” On the U.S.S. Orville, we haven’t evolved at all. We’re the same snarky, meme-ing, soundbite culture we are in the 2000s. Just in space.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:38
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Don't read the comments.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:43
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Peachfart posted:Don't read the comments. Always the best advice.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:44
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mllaneza posted:Some of the bootleg spaceship miniatures studios have already started making Orville stuff, they definitely need more official designs to work from. Huh, I had no idea you could get away with such close models just by changing the names.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:46
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I'm amused by the one comment complaining about the episode where a child genius solves everything because all the adults are idiots. I think I missed that one.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:52
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Tunicate posted:The most recent episode was the most paint-by-numbers generic prime directive plot imaginable so... No, the most recent episode was the most paint-by-numbers generic cultural contamination/colonialism/cargo cult plot imaginable, though I did like the twist about the civilization outstripping the Union, and not wanting to contaminate them in return. If they'd had the captain solemnly look into the camera and declaim 'Maybe someday we'll have some sort of guidance, some sort of, I don't know, First Rule or Fundamental Dictum or Non-Secondary Guideline...' on the other hand, it would have been shameless pandering, and turned a perfectly competent hour-long weekly sci-fi show into a base Star Trek parody. Kind of like Enterprise was, at times at least.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:53
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Al Borland Corp. posted:I'm amused by the one comment complaining about the episode where a child genies everyone because all the adults are idiots. I'm having trouble even understanding what you just posted
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Jan 26, 2018 19:54
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mllaneza posted:Some of the bootleg spaceship miniatures studios have already started making Orville stuff, they definitely need more official designs to work from. These are excellent. I love the one and two... ringed? designs. I think you can see some of them in the shipyards in the first episode, but they fly by too quickly. It makes them look like older ships, which is cool to see. In the pilot episode, Captain Mercer has a model on the shelf behind his desk that has the rings in a different order, where the largest one is at the top:  I think it looks really good. I would love to see some of the larger "cool" ships have a similar design if they get introduced later. I'm glad the Orville is kind of doofy looking though, I love that about it.
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Jan 26, 2018 19:59
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TheCenturion posted:If they'd had the captain solemnly look into the camera and declaim 'Maybe someday we'll have some sort of guidance, some sort of, I don't know, First Rule or Fundamental Dictum or Non-Secondary Guideline...' on the other hand, it would have been shameless pandering, and turned a perfectly competent hour-long weekly sci-fi show into a base Star Trek parody. Kind of like Enterprise was, at times at least. 'General Order One' is literally just a lawyer friendly prime directive.
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Jan 26, 2018 20:04
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ExtraNoise posted:These are excellent. I love the one and two... ringed? designs. I think you can see some of them in the shipyards in the first episode, but they fly by too quickly. It makes them look like older ships, which is cool to see. Yeah, I like to think that The Orville is kinda like the USS Hood, and there's a cool rear end Enterprise flying around doing all the fun poo poo
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Jan 26, 2018 20:05
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twistedmentat posted:It was more Dukat is a great character, in that he is an utterly evil person who has no idea of the vile nature of his action, that his self delusion is so deep that he honestly thinks he is a force of good and is beloved. I think there's good comedy in that, and honestly, I can't think of anyone else who could pull that off. Dukat is amazing because so often TV forgets that real life Villains always think they're goodies, nobody thinks they're a baddie.
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Jan 26, 2018 20:15
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Tunicate posted:'General Order One' is literally just a lawyer friendly prime directive.  Point being, you wouldn't be able to write a 'benevolent interstellar organization encounters a less-advanced planet' without having some sort of non-interference policy. Just having it doesn't make for a Star Trek reference, let alone homage or parody. Nor does having Robert Picardo play Alara's father. But if Robert Picardo played Alara's father, and he happens to be a doctor, or he happens to be an emergency services dispatcher and answers the phone with 'Please state the nature of the medical emergency', it suddenly becomes stupid.
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Jan 26, 2018 20:34
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TheCenturion posted:"General Order One" is actually the correct Starfleet designation. 'Prime Directive' is more on the order of slang. So they literally didn't even rename it for the orville, then? It's such a paint-by-numbers low-effort cliche episode. After the first five minutes it followed the expected plot beats of every generic 'whoops we violated the prime directive' story.
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Jan 26, 2018 20:46
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Tunicate posted:So they literally didn't even rename it for the orville, then? Well, it cranked the expected plot beats to 11 because its a bit more of a comedy It was a fine episode
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Jan 26, 2018 20:49
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Tunicate posted:So they literally didn't even rename it for the orville, then? That episode did a better job of explaining the Prime Directive than Star Trek ever did.
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Jan 26, 2018 21:18
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Peachfart posted:That episode did a better job of explaining the Prime Directive than Star Trek ever did. Most star trek prime directive episodes are something along the line of people are dying of a plague and the prime directive prevents them from curing it, both of which are pretty dumb and don't really explain the reasoning behind it at all. This episode actually shows rather than tells what the effect of making yourself known to a primitive race would be. Yes, it's similar to the TNG episode with the "protovulcans" thinking Picard is their god, but the point of the episode wasn't to explore the prime directive, it was to explore the bad effects of being in a relationship with your boss and cap off the relationship arc of the season. There have been 740 star trek episodes- it's kinda hard to make a show with the same general setting and with the same general theme without touching on topics any star trek episode has at some point covered. Hell, even star trek self references and recovers ground time and time again. I judge Orville by the B and C plots and character development rather than the A plot. Dietrich fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jan 26, 2018 |
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Jan 26, 2018 22:01
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mllaneza posted:Some of the bootleg spaceship miniatures studios have already started making Orville stuff, they definitely need more official designs to work from. $15 for the ship and $35 for the shipping. Still tempted.
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Jan 26, 2018 22:10
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Dietrich posted:I judge Orville by the B and C plots and character development rather than the A plot. Some pro wisdom right here.
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Jan 26, 2018 22:26
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Taear posted:Dukat is amazing because so often TV forgets that real life Villains always think they're goodies, nobody thinks they're a baddie. Also they didn't make the Bajorans incredibly sympathetic after TNG. A lot of shows would have made sure that they always came off as innocent and good, but not DS9! They made drat sure to remind you every now and then that Bajorans were religious nutjobs with a fear of science, in a society propped up by a smattering of artifacts belonging to an advanced civilization that they barely understood the significance of; not to mention the class problems and poor management of their world. I'm not saying this makes Dukat a sympathetic character but it has that necessary hint of progressiveness and altruism that allows colonialism to feel justified. Felt like half of Dukat's speeches are about how he was there to make Bajor a better place and bring them up to the level of the other civilizations in the Alpha Quadrant.
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Jan 27, 2018 01:22
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I like how everyone's complaint is "I hated the episode for being a complete retread. Except for all the parts that weren't that were really cool but don't count for some reason. Total retread."
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Jan 27, 2018 01:57
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PaybackJack posted:I'm not saying this makes Dukat a sympathetic character but it has that necessary hint of progressiveness and altruism that allows colonialism to feel justified. Felt like half of Dukat's speeches are about how he was there to make Bajor a better place and bring them up to the level of the other civilizations in the Alpha Quadrant. Well, someone has to Make Bajor Great Again!
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Jan 27, 2018 05:21
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Tunicate posted:So they literally didn't even rename it for the orville, then? "General orders" have been a thing in real life militaries for a while.
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Jan 27, 2018 05:59
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Kibayasu posted:"General orders" have been a thing in real life militaries for a while. US Army posted:1st General Order These are basically rules that supersede all other rules and every military group has them 3 DONG HORSE fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 06:20
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counterfeitsaint posted:I like how everyone's complaint is "I hated the episode for being a complete retread. Except for all the parts that weren't that were really cool but don't count for some reason. Total retread." It's weird how many critics or people who are critical treat story similarities as some kind of trump card against the show. If I want to break out the slide rule I can draw similarities between countless different Science Fiction properties. You are also going to be dealing with very broad topics like "All Civilizations are not equally advanced" that will naturally be similar. Oh to make our story work we need faster than light travel? Well machines break so a few things can happen: They go to someplace unusual or impossibly far away. "Um Actually that is just a retread of these four Stargate episodes, these two Farscape episodes, this Bablyon 5 episode, Event Horizon, Interstellar, the premise of Lost in Space, two episodes of Andromeda, Macross, thirty episodes of Star Trek, this Ray Bradbury short story, this Isaac Asimov novel, L Ron Hubbard's "Mission Earth" series, and sixty seven other episodes or stories from twenty more different series. Checkmate Shitville.  "
VictorianQueerLit fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 06:53
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How come science fiction is the only genre to get that treatment? It's so weird
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Jan 27, 2018 07:19
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3 DONG HORSE posted:How come science fiction is the only genre to get that treatment? It's so weird The answer is always "Asperger's".
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Jan 27, 2018 07:39
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I think there's also the idea that science fiction is nothing but a novelty, the only point of a science fiction story is to present some novel unexplored topic. If there's already a story about a time traveling evil robot, any other stories are pointless because who cares about the details or even quality of the writing, it's only the novelty that matters. Once it's been done it's been checked off the list and anything else is just a pointless retread or recycling or even "stealing" a previous idea. No one bats an eyelid at yet another dramatic story about a tragic love triangle, or two young lovers overcoming adversity to be together, because these sorts of stories are not judged by the novelty of their plots but by the characters and writing. But for many critics and nerds alike, 90% of the importance of a good scifi story is being original and novel or putting some craaaazy new twist on things, everything else is a distant second. The characters are there only to serve the scifi plot, the dialog only needs to be good enough to convey the scifi plot, that's the whole and only point of science fiction. Orville purposefully grabs from well-tread scifi plots/concepts but generally puts a new twist on them and puts a greater story focus on the characters. Critics and huge nerds look at only the very surface level plot and think them selves great detectives or incredibly learned science fiction connoisseurs for realizing that star trek already had a plot much like this before, can you believe Seth tried to rehash this plot???? If it's a comedy the plot is only there in service of the jokes but the Orville seems to take its plot seriously and sometimes whole chunks of episodes don't have any overt jokes so it can't be a comedy. But there's still way too many jokes and the characters are too ridiculous for this to be a real science fiction. It doesn't fit into either pigeon hole so it's confusing and bad. It needs to declare exactly which box it fits into so it can be judged by those criteria alone.
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Jan 27, 2018 08:09
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OB_Juan posted:Well, someone has to Make Bajor Great Again! It's less "Make Bajor Great Again" and more "Look at this shithole led by these shitholes; we have to give them the space Democracy so they can be free!". "Make Cardassia Great Again" was the campaign Dukat ran on when he negotiated them into the Dominion. 3 DONG HORSE posted:How come science fiction is the only genre to get that treatment? It's so weird One of the things that I always find weird is that sci-fi stories almost always try to bend over backwards to tell very human stories. I rarely found a scifi story that didn't have a story about the human condition at the core; Orville being no different. Compared to Fantasy which seems to delight in not trying to tell stories about that an instead focusing on what the main character does when he finds out he's a super wizard and/or is destined for great things. Maybe someday I'll see Die Hard in space; though I guess the Riddick movies are pretty close.
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Jan 27, 2018 09:46
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In other news, it's cute that they have pictures of space in the set windows instead of green screens everywhere.
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Jan 27, 2018 14:50
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Tom Guycot posted:It may be an old thing, but at the same time its fresh to see a sci fi show again, finally, where the best scene of an episode won't be the epic space battle fire fight, but people in a conference room arguing about the ethics of sentient screw drivers. That formula might be old, but it hasn't been done in a while, and the real fun came from the new ideas and stories told each week being handled in such a way. I'm with you here, man. I missed about 200 posts and I honestly only had a minute to try to catch up ( and the huge amount of posts with no new episodes was encouraging on its own) It's a janky-rear end, got-beat-the-gently caress-up-in-transit package, but its a box we haven't seen in awhile. I'm only still sad they didn't particularly carry any plot-line out to a FULL ON conclusion, like they're still a bit scared?? Even though there is no reason not to say what needs to be said. Like, what happened with the horrifically female baby? You know?
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Jan 28, 2018 06:56
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They reassigned it male, that's pretty explicit. It's living a normal baby life and Klyden does most of the child rearing. He complains to Bortus multiple times that Bortus isn't spending enough time with them.
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Jan 28, 2018 07:06
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Baronjutter posted:I think there's also the idea that science fiction is nothing but a novelty, the only point of a science fiction story is to present some novel unexplored topic. If there's already a story about a time traveling evil robot, any other stories are pointless because who cares about the details or even quality of the writing, it's only the novelty that matters. Once it's been done it's been checked off the list and anything else is just a pointless retread or recycling or even "stealing" a previous idea. No one bats an eyelid at yet another dramatic story about a tragic love triangle, or two young lovers overcoming adversity to be together, because these sorts of stories are not judged by the novelty of their plots but by the characters and writing. But for many critics and nerds alike, 90% of the importance of a good scifi story is being original and novel or putting some craaaazy new twist on things, everything else is a distant second. The characters are there only to serve the scifi plot, the dialog only needs to be good enough to convey the scifi plot, that's the whole and only point of science fiction. Okay two things here. The "POINT" of "sci-fi"originally, or the point that most people have ascribed to the best sci-fi ever written was that it either abstracted current points of political or sexual or racial tension in such a way that it turns it all into pointless absurd-ism and there's a big metaphorical release for all kinds of dumbass political poo poo that people were being wankers about. It's the metaphors about weird aliens that are black on one side and white on the other, or the opposite.. It's the ability to understand a greater being is not necessarily a god but something that OUR science hasn't figured out yet...That's FANTASTIC and Awesome. In a really lame way, the best example is Kirk kissing Uhura on TV. On the other hand, I think that Orville has not been particularly good at putting any new spin on all the issues that have already been done by a lot of older shows. They're weirdly sticking their toes in the pool but keep pulling them out because it's too cold and it tickles. I'm Happy about the show. I wish there were more. But they're honestly not treading new ground and its not funny enough to be a comedy and not well-written enough to be a drama. I hope they can really dial it in and go for it in the future. I wish they could get more feedback of that type instead of what I'm sure the internet is producing now. 
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Jan 28, 2018 07:08
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