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It’s slow for the season, but I wouldn’t call all their characters being judged on their development throughout the show so far “filler”.
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Jan 27, 2018 01:55
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I loved “why don’t you roll off YOUR MOM and do it yourself” from last weekAn Ounce of Gold posted:What if the donkey was equidistant from the hay, the water AND a burrito?
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Jan 27, 2018 02:22
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I was very disappointed by the judge reveal (are we still not saying who it is?) considering Jameela’s ‘you’ll poo poo yourself’ comment. You’re English still, reign in that colonial hyberbole, dear. 
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Jan 27, 2018 05:26
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The_Doctor posted:I was very disappointed by the judge reveal (are we still not saying who it is?) considering Jameela’s ‘you’ll poo poo yourself’ comment. You’re English still, reign in that colonial hyberbole, dear. Same, but not disappointed in the acting job at all!
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Jan 27, 2018 05:31
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LifeLynx posted:Same, but not disappointed in the acting job at all! Oh yes, I should have pointed that out! That was all great stuff, but still I was expecting.. I don’t know, Obama or something.
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Jan 27, 2018 05:44
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The_Doctor posted:I was very disappointed by the judge reveal (are we still not saying who it is?) considering Jameela’s ‘you’ll poo poo yourself’ comment. You’re English still, reign in that colonial hyberbole, dear. It was just just another point for the burrito misdirection.
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Jan 27, 2018 06:02
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Maybe the burrito was the judge in the first draft, and that’s what happened when Tahani ate it.
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Jan 27, 2018 06:03
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I’ve never been a fan of the person that played the judge, but I can admit they did a good job. I wish it would have been someone shocking like Steve Carell, Jim O'Heir, Alia Shawkat, Ken Joeng...
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Jan 27, 2018 06:24
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An Ounce of Gold posted:What if the donkey was equidistant from the hay, the water AND a burrito? A good burrito has at least some moisture, so burrito first, then water if the donkey was still thirsty. The Fuzzy Hulk posted:I’ve never been a fan of the person that played the judge, but I can admit they did a good job. I wish it would have been someone shocking like Steve Carell, Jim O'Heir, Alia Shawkat, Ken Joeng... Paul F. Tompkins has got to be on this show at some point. I mean... come on.
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Jan 27, 2018 06:59
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The Fuzzy Hulk posted:I’ve never been a fan of the person that played the judge, but I can admit they did a good job. Yeah, she was alright, but I can't fathom why they thought it was spectacular casting or anything.
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Jan 27, 2018 08:43
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Paul F. Tompkins has got to be on this show at some point. I mean... come on. When they finally get to the Good Place, they're greeted by Mr. Peanutbutter.
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Jan 27, 2018 09:17
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I liked Pretty Little Liars.
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Jan 27, 2018 09:34
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drunken officeparty posted:The judge said it's been 30 years since her last case, which would be Mindy. Where did the 800 years of restarts go Mike Schur??? It's not 800 years, it was 800 restarts. Nothing says how long each restart lasts.
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Jan 27, 2018 12:01
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nerdman42 posted:Chidi's test was kind of a joke rather than a real examination of his character, but its such a good joke I have a hard time caring. Nah. The ultimate proof of how far she's come is that she lied and claimed to have failed her test, because she didn't want her friends, the people she's come to love after her literal lifetime of alienation from every other human on the planet, to feel any worse for having failed theirs (whether they actually did or not). Edit: and she did it REFLEXIVELY. Not a speck of hesitation, because she cared THAT MUCH about their feelings, even if they were all going to end up in the Bad Place. Invenerable fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 13:06
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The_Doctor posted:I was very disappointed by the judge reveal (are we still not saying who it is?) considering Jameela’s ‘you’ll poo poo yourself’ comment. You’re English still, reign in that colonial hyberbole, dear. I thought it was just a Bridesmaids reference. Because she was the bride in that movie and there was a scene where everyone was making GBS threads themselves.
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Jan 27, 2018 15:18
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nerdman42 posted:Chidi's test was kind of a joke rather than a real examination of his character, but its such a good joke I have a hard time caring. It's actually perfect though. The issue is that he never stops and considers "I'm so indecisive that this inconveniences other people."
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Jan 27, 2018 16:54
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Nevvy Z posted:It's actually perfect though. The issue is that he never stops and considers "I'm so indecisive that this inconveniences other people." Also, it reminds me of one of the themes of the movie Defending Your Life. For those who haven't seen this movie or need a reminder: a guy dies, and he finds that in the afterlife, you go on actual trial to see if you go to the next plane of existence or are reincarnated to see if you can grow into a better soul. The trial doesn't deal so much with good works vs. evil deeds as it deals with more abstract concepts, one of which is bravery. Specifically, did you take chances in your life, or did you always put your head down and do what everyone expected you to do? Did you take risks? Chance the road less traveled? That kind of thing. I relate this to Chidi's dilemma here (and throughout his life) by considering it a special case of that movie's protagonist's (David Miller, played by Albert Brooks) problem. Whereas Miller would always pick the safest or most expected choice, for Chidi, the decision itself is the thing fraught with risk and danger. His version of playing it safe is beating around the bush until the decision that must be made becomes a moot issue. So, his test is to see if he's grown in this area must be something that gauges how far he's grown in his ability to make decisions. The judge presents him with two hats, and he mulls over the decision for almost 90 minutes because making even the simplest decision is still too risky a venture for him. This demonstrates very little improvement, and so he fails.
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Jan 27, 2018 18:10
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Here's the brilliant thing about the test and may give a hint towards the future direction of the show. Morality was only Eleanor's (and later Micheal's because he was a demon) failing. Yet, the entire time on that last iteration, they only took morality lessons. They never concentrated on Chidi's indecisiveness (in fact, it frequently became an issue during their endgame.) They never concentrated on Tahani's vanity (kept relationship with Jason a secret and really never accepted it herself since Jason is, well Jason.) They never concentrated on Jason's impulse control (basically, just shot down everything Jason tried to do rather than try to get him to see why he shouldn't.) So, they all thought just by learning all about morality, they would be well prepared to be tested to get into the Good Place. But strict morality isn't the be all, end all, to being a good person according to the criteria of The Good Place. Even if you understand morality and try to govern your actions to a moral code, it's all pointless if your other faults get in the way of that.
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Jan 27, 2018 18:31
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Paul F. Tompkins has got to be on this show at some point. I mean... come on. https://twitter.com/PFTompkins/status/956632921397379073
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Jan 27, 2018 18:33
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WampaLord posted:It's not 800 years, it was 800 restarts. Nothing says how long each restart lasts. Can we just accept that time flows differently in afterlife scenarios? People keep complaining about timelines not matching up like every other page.
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Jan 27, 2018 18:46
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As a bonus, he can even punch up the theme song. https://twitter.com/PFTompkins/status/956666965707210752
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Jan 27, 2018 18:57
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bull3964 posted:Here's the brilliant thing about the test and may give a hint towards the future direction of the show.
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Jan 27, 2018 19:31
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All of those things are moral choices too, because they initially fail despite the immortal souls of their friends being on the line. Each one speaks to an inability to control aspects of themselves that are selfish (pretty obvious for Tahani and Jason, but also for Chidi who'd rather be perfectly correct than satisfactorily sort-of-right).
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Jan 27, 2018 19:55
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sector_corrector posted:All of those things are moral choices too, because they initially fail despite the immortal souls of their friends being on the line. Each one speaks to an inability to control aspects of themselves that are selfish (pretty obvious for Tahani and Jason, but also for Chidi who'd rather be perfectly correct than satisfactorily sort-of-right). Actually, Chidi's test is kind of tainted for that very reason. If you placed the current Chidi in a room with two hats and told him to choose one with only, say, the risk of wearing the same thing as Jason on the line? He'd probably be able to do it fine when he wouldn't have on Earth. But he was asked to do so AND told that his friends getting into the Good Place was dependent on passing the test. Most people would agonise over that situation at least for a while, and given Chidi's personality, it's laudible he managed in less than an hour and a half. I mean, hell, if you're going down that road, ELEANOR failed, because her own self-centredness made her lie rather than lose face in front of her friends for being the only one to pass.
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Jan 27, 2018 20:02
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I took it as sparing them guilt.
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Jan 27, 2018 20:17
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Accretionist posted:I took it as sparing them guilt. Yeah, I don't see how you can view her saying "I pushed an old lady to get some shrimp" as her avoiding losing face.
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Jan 27, 2018 20:34
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Timeless Appeal posted:I get that, but honestly my take away is that Chidi, Tahani, and Jason did grow. Yes, Chidi spends a lot of time selecting the hat, but eighty minutes is pretty good for him. Yes, Tahani opens the door, but she also finds catharsis and acceptance of herself by doing so. Yes, Jason shows poor impulse control, but he does preserver through something he does not enjoy for the benefit of his friends. It might be too cynical for the show to actually go through with, but I feel like the last episode shows just how superficial their growth really is. Eighty minutes on deciding on a hat shows that Chidi is still badly indecisive. Tahani opening the door means she still cares about what others think of her. Jason still does whatever the gently caress he wants whenever he wants. Put all of them in the same situations again, with them knowing what they have to do to pass the test, and they'd make still the same choice. In terms of storytelling, people love the idea of one redemptive act wiping all of the red ink off their ledger. poo poo, most of us here are rooting for these people, after all. We're all thinking about different ways and routes that the story could go that results in them not being put in the place that they were initially placed in. We're looking for a justification or way to get them out of the Bad Place, because we refuse to accept that the Bad Place might just be where they fundamentally belong. If this were a old video game that causes hypersomnia, we'd be trying to find a way to get The Nameless One from walking down the steps to the Blood War. Thing is, the judge's actions in this episode seem to lean towards the notion that in this universe's milieu, a drop of cleaning fluid on a caked-in stain still results in a caked-in stain. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 20:38
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Gaz-L posted:Actually, Chidi's test is kind of tainted for that very reason. If you placed the current Chidi in a room with two hats and told him to choose one with only, say, the risk of wearing the same thing as Jason on the line? He'd probably be able to do it fine when he wouldn't have on Earth. But he was asked to do so AND told that his friends getting into the Good Place was dependent on passing the test. Most people would agonise over that situation at least for a while, and given Chidi's personality, it's laudible he managed in less than an hour and a half. I thought the Chidi test as perfect. He knows that the thing that got him into the bad place in the first place was his inability to make a decision, and the impact that his inability to make those decisions had on others around him. He is put into a room with two mildly different hats, and knowing that their souls are on the line, he still take over an hour to choose, when a normal, well adjusted person spends perhaps five, most of which is looking over the hats themselves to see if there are any hidden markings. The test was to see if his fatal flaw had improved. And it didn't.
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Jan 27, 2018 20:50
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MisterBibs posted:It might be too cynical for the show to actually go through with, but I feel like the last episode shows just how superficial their growth really is. Eighty minutes on deciding on a hat shows that Chidi is still badly indecisive. Tahani opening the door means she still cares about what others think of her. Jason still does whatever the gently caress he wants whenever he wants. Put all of them in the same situations again, with them knowing what they have to do to pass the test, and they'd make still the same choice. Yeah, pretty much everyone explicitly knew what they had to do to pass and every single one but Eleanor couldn't override their base behavior. Tahani was one of the worst as far as failing the test goes. She knows her parents don't think of her in any other terms than comparison to her sister. Going in to that room was the expression of her very last hope that her death would cause her parents to talk about HER and that's vanity again. It doesn't matter how confidently she went in there or any catharsis that may have resulted. Her task was to ignore her impulse of caring what others think of her at the threat of dooming her friends and she couldn't do it. The only person that has really grown is Eleanor. The others were confronted with and made aware of their flaws in The Bad Place, but beyond acknowledgement and some small token instances, they didn't change. What's going to be interesting is to see what Micheal brings to the table. Iteration 800 of Eleanor is worthy of The Good Place. Maybe iteration 365 of Jason grew in a substantive way, iteration 45 of Tahani finally stopped caring, and iteration 566 of Chidi got over his indecisiveness. If Micheal can prove to the judge that at least one of their iterations each is worthy of The Good Place, than the argument can be made that environment is just as much to blame as to where people fall on the scale. I wonder if the next evolution of the show is going to be Micheal taking his torture idea to The Good Place as a reform mechanism, trying to prove that he can get an iteration where all 4 of them are the best versions of themselves. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 21:04
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Gaz-L posted:Actually, Chidi's test is kind of tainted for that very reason. If you placed the current Chidi in a room with two hats and told him to choose one with only, say, the risk of wearing the same thing as Jason on the line? He'd probably be able to do it fine when he wouldn't have on Earth. But he was asked to do so AND told that his friends getting into the Good Place was dependent on passing the test. Most people would agonise over that situation at least for a while, and given Chidi's personality, it's laudible he managed in less than an hour and a half. ... Have you tried looking at and listening to the TV when you watch it? I think that might improve your ability to comprehend and enjoy televised entertainment.
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Jan 27, 2018 21:20
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bull3964 posted:I wonder if the next evolution of the show is going to be Micheal taking his torture idea to The Good Place as a reform mechanism, trying to prove that he can get an iteration where all 4 of them are the best versions of themselves. I don't think ethics professors die at a fast enough pace.
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Jan 27, 2018 21:20
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Caros posted:I thought the Chidi test as perfect. He knows that the thing that got him into the bad place in the first place was his inability to make a decision, and the impact that his inability to make those decisions had on others around him. I see his indecisiveness as more of an anxiety disorder, so it makes me uncomfortable to see it cast as a moral failing instead.
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Jan 27, 2018 21:22
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Yeah Chidi is punished for being mentally ill. The Good Place/Bad Place system is hosed.
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Jan 27, 2018 21:31
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DoctorWhat posted:The Good Place/Bad Place system is hosed. That has been clear from the very first episode, there is nothing the least bit fair about the system.
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Jan 27, 2018 21:58
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Oasx posted:That has been clear from the very first episode, there is nothing the least bit fair about the system. You might be right. The only way to know for sure is to see how many points you're docked for saying "I don't even own a TV" in any context.
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Jan 27, 2018 21:59
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DoctorWhat posted:Yeah Chidi is punished for being mentally ill. The Good Place/Bad Place system is hosed. The re-curing theme seems to be that if you can't exceed your circumstances then it's torture. Eleanor was shaped into a distrustful person incapable of caring about anyone by her parents, so by managing to empathize with others in spite of that she passed her test. In-between Jason's stupidity, Chidi's anxiety and Tahani's obsession with her parents recognition what they all have in common is that they are still unable, even when in full knowledge of their flaws, to be better. This is probably off since our case-data for people who have qualified so far is Eleanor and no one else. 
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Jan 27, 2018 22:29
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sector_corrector posted:... Have you tried looking at and listening to the TV when you watch it? I think that might improve your ability to comprehend and enjoy televised entertainment. It's almost like I was deliberately being obtuse to illustrate how absurd it is to judge the tests as fair to Jason, Chidi and Tahani.
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Jan 27, 2018 22:32
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MiddleOne posted:what they all have in common is that they are still unable, even when in full knowledge of their flaws, to be better. Thinking about this, I find it pretty interesting that Fake Chidi does that outs himself as Fake is basically what Real Chidi would have to do: take a deep breath and ignore ethics for one drat minute.
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Jan 27, 2018 23:04
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MisterBibs posted:It might be too cynical for the show to actually go through with, but I feel like the last episode shows just how superficial their growth really is. Eighty minutes on deciding on a hat shows that Chidi is still badly indecisive. Tahani opening the door means she still cares about what others think of her. Jason still does whatever the gently caress he wants whenever he wants. Put all of them in the same situations again, with them knowing what they have to do to pass the test, and they'd make still the same choice. Am I the only one that thinks that these are hosed up criteria for eternal damnation Like... sure you could look at Tahani opening the door to her parents as vanity, but most everyone I've known with parental issues growing up just want some kind of affirmation that their parents give a poo poo about them. That doesn't seem all that crazy to me, but I'm probably going to hell to so whatevs. Really the only one I see as really loving up here is Jason because he didn't listen to all the instructions before jumping into things. There Bias Two posted:I see his indecisiveness as more of an anxiety disorder, so it makes me uncomfortable to see it cast as a moral failing instead. And yeah, this is what bothers me about Chidi too. raditts fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jan 27, 2018 |
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Jan 27, 2018 23:18
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raditts posted:Am I the only one that thinks that these are hosed up criteria for eternal damnation Right. The point is NOT that they haven't grown, it's that the arbitrary things this system chose as their ultimate flaws are not really something that is reasonable. They are all better people than they were to begin with (well maybe not Jason) in that they at the very least are AWARE of how their flaws can hurt other people and have a desire to change. But the ridgid bizarre structure of this afterlife doesn't care about that, it only cares about the specific flaws.
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Jan 27, 2018 23:21
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