KhediveRex posted:

This is the heart of what I'm not understanding. On a night where there was the threat of a cop being killed, you used your power to check out a gut read you developed long before any of the drama of day 1 came onto the scene.

If I had had your power I'd have dueled someone who was involved with the deadline last night. Someone who was engineering after Quid came out as Cop. Someone who disappeared after Quid came out as Cop. Someone involved with the situation who seemed to have an agenda. Someone who might have been involved with scum's reaction to a claimed cop.

You kept you're cool and hit the first person in the game you had been suspicious about. Like there were no more pressing issues to respond to. That's a strange reaction for town.

On the other side of things if you were running interference for a NK, anyone you felt like hitting would be equally valid.

... There's less mystery in imagining that your scum than in imagining that your town. Basically. But I'd love to hear your side of it.

Why was dueling MMT the best thing you could do to prevent the potential death of a cop?

Juchero posted:

i'm sad i wasn't around for deadline, things got wild

i'll have some cases up by tomorrow, lot to re-read for day 1 but both these flips should shed some light on who we need to look at more closely

checkin in, will have a couple of cases soon

---

having caught up again the case on 50 was silly and i'm now about 70% sure that prince is scum

but i'll have more details in the morning tomorrow, and if i don't, you should lynch me because no one should be allowed to coast this much, real life issues be damned, i signed up for mafia, i'm here to play

---

also lol at that slip, except now i need to factor that in

Quidthulhu posted:

Totally Town
Quid - still town, still a cute girl

Leaning Town
50 - stupid flavor reads but I believe him to be town because of it. easily could be wrong.

50 pounds of bread posted:

BERZERKER TELL LITTLE GIRL CONFIRM PURE HEART

LITTLE GIRL NO NEED SAY POWER BUT DID

BERZERKER TRY MAKE BAD ONES THINK BERZERKER CAN PROTECT SO BAD ONES GET BERZERKER INSTEAD

BERZERKER POWERFUL BUT LITTLE GIRL MORE IMPORTANT

Bifauxnen posted:

Because I'm extremely frustrated that Quid played the way he did as town, even before all the personal poo poo came up. On top of that I'm super frustrated that even if I'm trying my best to not be too insulting but still let an occasional "lol" slip out in disbelief at how much he's got something wrong, or if I choose not to engage with Quid out of respect for all the OTHER players of this game who have to wade through both our posts, I apparently deserve to have the full weight of Quid's historical emotional trauma thrown at me, to accuse me of being some horrible mean person for not going out of my way to make my whole gaming efforts revolve around not making Quid ever feel disrespected for not being listened to. ....even though I WAS listening to him far more than he was listening to me, cause he was accusing me of pushing narratives I was saying the bloody opposite of, and didn't even read my goddamn lumpenlist. So yes. I am still quite frustrated with Quid and that's not just gonna vanish once he gets NKed. If anything, I got more annoyed when I tried to drop an apology, thinking he must have some serious rl poo poo going down that's putting him that much on edge, and he said "lol nah my life's great".

Murmur Twin posted:

Mutual Respect is the continuance condition of dialogue. The instant people perceive disrespect, the interaction is no longer about the original purpose – it is now about defending dignity.”

…we can stay in dialogue by finding a way to honor and regard another person’s basic humanity. In essence, feelings of disrespect often come when we dwell on how others are different from ourselves. We can counteract these feelings by looking for ways we are similar.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

KhediveRex puts me and MMT on his list of suspicious characters. KhediveRex doesn't see how or why a duel developed between townies.

That's a scumslip, friends.

##vote KhediveRex

Prince of Space posted:

Prince of Space's Day 1 reaction summaries

• 50 pounds of bread - RPing a Berserker. Might try and kill some scum later, might miss and hurt somebody. Wildcard.
  
  
• KhediveRex - talks of loneliness and chess in a disconcerting way - at first mistaken to be flavor. Sudden avatar change (anti-Bifauxnen) and general demeanor (voting self) raises flags.
  
  
• Murmur Twin - seems willing to share thoughts and throw out accusations on gut reads. Pot-stirrer, but maybe also throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what will stick. I want to lean town but it's too early on.
  
  
• Quidthulhu - Seems like a popular guy that people want out of the game for meta reasons. Argumentative in sometimes roundabout or unhelpful ways. Willing to give him a pass for Day 1 because they were lynched early on as scum in their last mafia game, Shine V.
  
  
• Tired Moritz - Our "Best Girl" needs to step up her game.
  
  
• Tobbs Gnawed - Threw out a lot of vote pressure Day 1 and started out with a Miller claim. Seems like trouble and a rabble-rouser, but in Mafia that can be a useful tool for finding scum. Null/paying attention.
  

Prince of Space posted:

I don't have a 100% town read on her - I can't. I'm leaning town on Bifauxnen because I read her accusatory tone and I see what she's doing - poking at people for their weirder decisions and trying to catch them in a slipup.

The fact that she's poking at you doesn't necessarily mean you're the bad guy, it just means you did something that didn't jive well with her logical setup.

Bifauxnen feels your behavior surrounding Juchero is suspicious, and I would agree.

Prince of Space posted:

Would you four jokesters please put down the swords and look into someone other than yourselves for today?

I am also in agreement with those saying that this feels like a town/town slapfight.

Prince of Space posted:

Partially, yes. I think Tobbs is the most suspect of those four people-


But I'm not about to vote for our four more avid participants right now, so I'll put some a bit of pressure where I feel pressure is due.

##vote SaltheBard

It's near the end of day 1. Do you have any thoughts you'd like to share, SaltheBard?

Prince of Space posted:

Well I'm not about to lead the charge against you Day 1 before deadline while you're out being social. I'm not that bloodthirsty.

##unvote

Now I feel the need to press on the other person who hasn't been contributing much.

##vote Chic Trombone

What are your leanings, Chic Trombone?

Prince of Space posted:

I feel like Chic Trombone has made some good posts lately.

##unvote


I want to believe that Tired Moritz is a disaffected town with work in the way. I'd also rather vote for him over Quidthulhu.

Prince of Space posted:

Quidthulhu, Bifauxnen said "LOL" because you said she'd done no reads on anyone when she'd just given you a lumpenlist that you didn't read at first.

Prince of Space posted:

##vote Tired Moritz

Sorry but you're not the best girl.

Prince of Space posted:

I sigh and sheathe my katana.

##unvote

##vote Tobbs Gnawed

Do you really think his approach is scummy, Quidthulhu?

Prince of Space posted:

I have no clue ! I don't want a no-lynch either!

Prince of Space posted:

I'm trying to get Quidthulhu to engage, but now is not the time!

##unvote

##vote Tired Moritz

Bifauxnen posted:

Tobbs, I just want to remind you of how you also thought I had scumslipped, just because you somehow couldn't tell from the context of my huge flavour discussion that I was talking about the story of an anime, and instead you thought I seriously meant that I was in a pair of players out to duel everybody else to the death, in this game of Mafia, and I saw nothing odd about this at all that I would need to conceal it or fakeclaim about it, so I just casually dropped it into my conversation, in this game of Mafia.

I won't spoil my super advanced linguistic analysis techniques just yet, let's wait and see if Khedive shows up and chokes cause it actually was a scumslip, but if you're wondering why I'm not dogpiling on Rex just yet, this is why.

KhediveRex posted:

Really though, half of my suspicions with Tobbs comes from the duel he's involved in with MurmerTwin. I don't see why, if he had that power, he would use it on MurmurTwin. He calls it a gut read. It feels more to me like a "I want to use this and see how it works." (Correct me if dueling is a standard power, I think the whole idea is weird.) I just don't see how or why a duel developed between townies. Sort of in general. And having said that.

MurmurTwin: I have to put her on the list of suspicious people because she's the other half of the duel. She and Tobbs are fighting for reasons that haven't been sufficiently explained to us. I also note that like Tobbs, MurmurTwin wasn't very active around deadline, even though it was a very important deadline. That's far from daming evidence but, it is worth noting.

KhediveRex posted:

Can you explain why she was your target?

Also, what would the danger have been of telling us your power last night? A one turn move delay isn't scary. It wouldn't have gotten you targeted. Do you think town could have given you a better guess at who to duel, if you'd chosen to confide in us? Wouldn't telling us have removed suspicion on you when Quid was pushing hard? What was your rationale?

b-minus1 posted:

wow Rex has really been pushing Tobbs to reveal why he chose MMT to target.

Prince of Space posted:

And voting for your mason-buddy doesn't? Seems like sour tastes all around.

Prince of Space posted:

I'm sorry Tired Moritz and Quidthulhu - you we're both "best girls" in my book.

We lost a cop and an un-cop-able dayvig.

What happened to our cop's protections/protectors last night??

I thought someone would have them covered in a role madness game.

Prince of Space posted:

Kindness is good and all but we just killed the Maiden and let the Little Girl die.

We are horrible people for that.

World peace is something that can only be achieved by a town win. Don't act so blasé!

Prince of Space posted:

Prince of Space's Reaction List Day 2

50 pounds of bread - was unable to protect the little girl last night. What is he going to do about it? Still waiting on responses, Berserker. Currently scummy.
KhediveRex - After his "town slip" earlier, he has been helpful and wrote up a nice lumpenlist. Good guy.
Murmur Twin - Thinks oddly and makes strange cases. Might just be wrong about some things. Null read total.
Quidthulhu - Dead Town, Cop / Ilya
Tired Moritz - Dead Town, Day-Vigilante / Saber
Tobbs Gnawed - Assassin/duelist claim. Vouches for Murmur Twin and Bifauxnen. Leaning Town due to flavor claims.

e: Ah, I refreshed and I have much to read.

Murmur Twin posted:

Juchero posted:

let's begin with Quid, our now ded claimed cop

Prince of Space posted:

I don't have a 100% town read on her - I can't. I'm leaning town on Bifauxnen because I read her accusatory tone and I see what she's doing - poking at people for their weirder decisions and trying to catch them in a slipup.

The fact that she's poking at you doesn't necessarily mean you're the bad guy, it just means you did something that didn't jive well with her logical setup.

Bifauxnen feels your behavior surrounding Juchero is suspicious, and I would agree.

Juchero posted:

this reads to me as an attempt to comment on the situation and let an implication fly without actually putting themselves at risk. the tying of me to quid as well is a problem, although one that I feel should color the opinions hereon.

Quidthulhu posted:

What, specifically, would you say are bif's "Good scum-hunting efforts?" Please explain why you have a town read on her, in detail, and in regards to her scumhunting.

Prince of Space posted:

Quidthulhu, Bifauxnen said "LOL" because you said she'd done no reads on anyone when she'd just given you a lumpenlist that you didn't read at first.

Juchero posted:

i don't like this reliance on lumpenlisting for reads, i feel like it's a cheap way to throw out implications without really backing up your claims

Juchero posted:

this is where i would like to begin. if i'm going to imply that prince is scum, it would be based on their behavior and actions relating to the people who were most implicated and affected by the lunch and subsequent night kill.

Juchero posted:

this reads to me as an attempt to comment on the situation and let an implication fly without actually putting themselves at risk. the tying of me to quid as well is a problem, although one that I feel should color the opinions hereon.

as someone who actually agrees with the message here and made comments to a similar degree on the matter, i don't like the way this post comes off, distancing itself from the day 1 kerfuffle without(again) directly engaging, and yet still making sure their opinion is in the arena.

these three posts are bothering me, because while putting pressure on lurkers is always a good idea, i don't like how little attention these votes got, especially considering that any of them could have lead to a lurker push at that stage. voting and unvoting twice in a row should be suspicious no matter the context.

i don't like this reliance on lumpenlisting for reads, i feel like it's a cheap way to throw out implications without really backing up your claims

this sudden switch, given that this post and the previous had no posts inbetween, reads to me as scum trying to find the right bandwagon to jump on

right after that, is this, which could just be inexperienced town but reads more to me like scum trying to use that image to clear themselves of suspicion on a bad vote

you can't just throw votes around and claim you're trying to just get people to engage, especially considering that this is the pressure that caused quid to claim and die that night.

Bifauxnen posted:

Bifauxnen posted:

hey, I was about to reply to this, but then realized all this Quid stuff was just getting nuts and it should REALLY be discussed outside the game instead. So I wrote up a big thing and saved it for later, remind me to PM it to you after one of us is dead ok?

Juchero posted:

let's begin with Quid, our now ded claimed cop

this reads to me as an attempt to comment on the situation and let an implication fly without actually putting themselves at risk. the tying of me to quid as well is a problem, although one that I feel should color the opinions hereon.

Juchero posted:

as someone who actually agrees with the message here and made comments to a similar degree on the matter, i don't like the way this post comes off, distancing itself from the day 1 kerfuffle without(again) directly engaging, and yet still making sure their opinion is in the arena.

Juchero posted:

these three posts are bothering me, because while putting pressure on lurkers is always a good idea, i don't like how little attention these votes got, especially considering that any of them could have lead to a lurker push at that stage. voting and unvoting twice in a row should be suspicious no matter the context.

Juchero posted:

i don't like this reliance on lumpenlisting for reads

Juchero posted:

bad vote. real bad vote, especially considering the outcome, but...

Juchero posted:

this sudden switch, given that this post and the previous had no posts inbetween, reads to me as scum trying to find the right bandwagon to jump on

Juchero posted:

you can't just throw votes around and claim you're trying to just get people to engage, especially considering that this is the pressure that caused quid to claim and die that night.

Juchero posted:

this following right after speaks of a total lack of internal consistency, especially since they voted both of them in their little end of day confusion. it also reads as trying to figure out essential town role information, with a little bit of "oh i'm so confused" thrown in

Juchero posted:

more and more, these posts are reading as insincere to me, especially the "oh no i feel the WORST about those two tragic town deaths for real" implication

Juchero posted:

overall, honestly, if you are worried about someone coasting through, maybe you should look at the person with almost no real casing, the majority of their posts being reactionary and bandwagony, without any real commitment to their choice of votes.

Prince of Space posted:

The implication I made is there completely there in the context of where my quote came from. KhediveRex was acting blithely oblivious to the fact that two townies had just died. I DO feel bad about our votes Day 1 - don't you? Oh wait, no, you weren't participating Day 1, how could you possibly feel bad about the results? Instead you just throw suspicion on those that try to get others in the game.

Juchero posted:

won't be around for deadline, D&D night


still have no idea who is scum

Monathin posted:

Regarding Rex's 'scumslip', I think it was a scumslip but based on Rex's other posts have a hard time thinking of him as actual scum. Either scum can't communicate with each other in the usual way in this game (which I think is extremely unlikely), or Rex is some anti-town 3p and flailing a bit.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

KhediveRex puts me and MMT on his list of suspicious characters. KhediveRex doesn't see how or why a duel developed between townies.

That's a scumslip, friends.

##vote KhediveRex

KhediveRex posted:

Let's talk about the phrase "I don't see how or why a duel developed between townies" in the context of your excuse for last night.

You're current stance about the duel is that Murmur is town, you are town, you chose her cause why not, and the whole thing is playful shenanigans.

My stance about the duel is that your explanation is suspicious. I said specifically I thought that you two were "dueling for reasons that haven't been sufficiently explained". I put both of you in suspicious characters because I'm not making a judgement call about your fight, I'm noting that your fight doesn't make sense the way it's been explained. And that has to benefit one or the other of you. "I don't see how or why a duel developed between townies" is a more than fair refutation of your major talking point ("yeah, we're fighting but we're both good and it's not a big deal.")

I went on to press you further on the notion that town fighting the way you're describing seems illogical in light of the threat of a claimed Cop dying night one. It doesn't seem to me that your reaction (dueling Murmur) was a legitimate response to the threat of that night. I asked you to explain why fighting Murmur was the best thing you could do to save the life of a cop? Instead of engaging on that point at all, you've decided to make a flimsy case against me predicated on the notion that dismissing your alibi of town fighting for no reason somehow meant I knew exactly who town was.

For what it's worth, I would still really like to know. What was the plan there? How were you going to help save our cop last night? If that wasn't your major motivation, I want to know what more pressing issue you saw that I didn't.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

My hope was to target a scummy player and delay an NK. If there were no NK it could implicate my target.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Since I've already claimed, the dueling is flavor.

My ability is to delay a player's action resolution by one night.

MMT doesn't have anything to do with it apart from the fact that she was my target.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

No, it's just this general air of amicability that pings me. Like she's being overly friendly/conciliatory even when she's casing, and I'm more used to her (as town) pushing cases with a little more bite to them (whether they are good or bad).

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Also, I did pick her because she was mostly 7nder the radar. In my experience, players in that position are often chosen to perform the night kill.

KhediveRex posted:

Let's talk about the phrase "I don't see how or why a duel developed between townies" in the context of your excuse for last night.

You're current stance about the duel is that Murmur is town, you are town, you chose her cause why not, and the whole thing is playful shenanigans.

This is, simply, a lie. I've already stated my reasons for choosing her. Notably, KR avoids talking at all about my main point, that he calls us townies while putting us on his scum list.

My stance about the duel is that your explanation is suspicious. I said specifically I thought that you two were "dueling for reasons that haven't been sufficiently explained". I put both of you in suspicious characters because I'm not making a judgement call about your fight, I'm noting that your fight doesn't make sense the way it's been explained. And that has to benefit one or the other of you. "I don't see how or why a duel developed between townies" is a more than fair refutation of your major talking point ("yeah, we're fighting but we're both good and it's not a big deal.")

I've made it abundantly clear that the "duel" is just flavor. KR is not reading.

I went on to press you further on the notion that town fighting the way you're describing seems illogical in light of the threat of a claimed Cop dying night one. It doesn't seem to me that your reaction (dueling Murmur) was a legitimate response to the threat of that night. I asked you to explain why fighting Murmur was the best thing you could do to save the life of a cop? Instead of engaging on that point at all, you've decided to make a flimsy case against me predicated on the notion that dismissing your alibi of town fighting for no reason somehow meant I knew exactly who town was.

KR's whole argument is that my choice of MMT as a target was a bad one. How can he know this? Only if he knows who scum are, and therefore knows who I should have targeted. This fits with him posting as if he knows that MMT is town.

For what it's worth, I would still really like to know. What was the plan there? How were you going to help save our cop last night? If that wasn't your major motivation, I want to know what more pressing issue you saw that I didn't.

More of KR saying that my targeting MMT was a scummy thing to do. His posting comes from a position of knowledge, in that he knows who I should have targeted to keep Quid alive. Based on MMT's posting (very friendly/conciliatory) and the fact that she was flying under everyone's radar, I thought she would be a likely choice for scum to send to do the NK.

b-minus1 posted:

wow I don't like this post at all, but I really hate the bold parts. this only reinforces the notion that you scumslipped and got caught.
##vote KhediveRex

KhediveRex posted:

Is there something I can clear up? Do you have questions for me? I don't see why this is "not a big deal" for anyone but me. The duel and the death of the cop are the two most serious peices of evidence we have to work with at the moment. Am I missing something?

KhediveRex posted:

I don't see why this is "not a big deal" for anyone but me. The duel and the death of the cop are the two most serious peices of evidence we have to work with at the moment. Am I missing something?

Bifauxnen posted:

A town shooting into the void will often pick a bad target.

Murmur Twin posted:

Rex: 50 was pretty clearly implying that he can protect people - why wouldn't a scum Tobbs target him instead of me?

KhediveRex posted:

Is there something I can clear up? Do you have questions for me? I don't see why this is "not a big deal" for anyone but me. The duel and the death of the cop are the two most serious peices of evidence we have to work with at the moment. Am I missing something?

Bifauxnen posted:

Rex, you sound a bit hung up on the flavor of "town fighting for no reason". First of all, MT didnt have any say on being involved in this. Tobbs just happens to have an action which is a kind of weird variant of a role blocker. And the only way he could use that ability "to save the cop" is if he hits scum with it. And not just any scum. He'd have to hit the one exact scum who was chosen to do the nightkill. So it's still got good odds of failing even IF Tobbs was magically super on point this game and already figured out flawlessly who all the scums are. But he probably isn't, cause this is real life, and it was N1 at that.

Bifauxnen posted:

I still don't think that was a scumslip Tobbs, and here's why: if I quoted something you said that looked super scummy, and then I said "I dont see how town thinks this", am I slipping that I know you're town?

Bifauxnen posted:

PS, I found it a bit unsettling just how fast MT fell in to vote with you on this as an obvious scumslip, Tobbs. I highly doubt I can really outdo her on the "see where someone else is coming from to clear up possible misunderstandings" front.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

You're current stance about the duel is that Murmur is town, you are town, you chose her cause why not, and the whole thing is playful shenanigans.

This is, simply, a lie. I've already stated my reasons for choosing her. Notably, KR avoids talking at all about my main point, that he calls us townies while putting us on his scum list.

quote:

I've made it abundantly clear that the "duel" is just flavor. KR is not reading.

quote:

KR's whole argument is that my choice of MMT as a target was a bad one. How can he know this? Only if he knows who scum are, and therefore knows who I should have targeted. This fits with him posting as if he knows that MMT is town.

For what it's worth, I would still really like to know. What was the plan there? How were you going to help save our cop last night? If that wasn't your major motivation, I want to know what more pressing issue you saw that I didn't.

More of KR saying that my targeting MMT was a scummy thing to do. His posting comes from a position of knowledge, in that he knows who I should have targeted to keep Quid alive. Based on MMT's posting (very friendly/conciliatory) and the fact that she was flying under everyone's radar, I thought she would be a likely choice for scum to send to do the NK.

GulagDolls posted:

not onl;y that, but rex is confirmed town

GulagDolls posted:

i think bminus could be scumj for jumping on this and 50, in addition to being bminus

Murmur Twin posted:

Rex: 50 was pretty clearly implying that he can protect people - why wouldn't a scum Tobbs target him instead of me?