Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Communist revolution, duh.

Dairy Days posted:

"im not a anprim death cult but all solutions are unworkable"

Dairy Days posted:

if thats the case it seems like theres no real disagreement except in how many people die before it happens

Dairy Days posted:

money can actually quite directly be used buy you all three with desalinization, soil regeneration, and farming of fish so idk what you're on about unless this is some type of anprim death cult

Notorious R.I.M. posted:

Yes that's mainly my disagreement. It's something like:

Best outcome: Population rapidly contracts, economic system falls apart and gets rebuilt from scratch but we manage to support a population in the hundreds of millions or so and get to deal with the real dragons of climate change that show up after the 21st century.

Worst outcome: We do nothing and somewhere around mid-century a bunch of sad scientists come out with reports that we're speed running the end-Permian extinction and it's too late to stop it.

Digiwizzard posted:

all three of these activities require non renewable resources that we're rapidly running out of actually

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

best outcome: communist revolution and state-owned carbon sequestration machines and oceanic geoengineering projects

LegoPirateNinja posted:

who knew a mild stock market recovery would trigger a Malthusian feverdream in C-SPAM

Notorious R.I.M. posted:

See this is the exact reason I don't like this whole "no it'll be fine we'll adapt" stuff. Carbon sequestration and geoengineering don't work like that. You want a phytoplankton bloom to draw down more carbon? Okay, you better be able to generate enough phytoplankton predators so that they get eaten and don't just die and decompose as they drop to the sea floor. When that happens you get anoxic dead zones that turn into euxinic microbe pits if enough sulfur is sitting around.

There is no geoengineering, just biome engineering, and you have to engineer the whole dang biome or you're just setting off a trophic cascade that's going to have some very big unintended consequences.

The Snoo posted:

you can have kids if you want but remember that they'll most likely grow up in a world with even more suffering and anger than we are currently experiencing and it seems cruel to subject more people to that when you could make a difference in the life of a child who is already here and needs a family more than you need to pass on your genes

Dairy Days posted:

there are ways to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere that don't require massively loving with an ecosystem

Dairy Days posted:

there are ways to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere that don't require massively loving with an ecosystem

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

suck it outta the air via massive tracts of reforestation after eliminating all for-profit logging imho

Notorious R.I.M. posted:

A lot of climate policy now is turning to "No actually you can't just treat CCS as a magic bullet to fix all of your problems" for exactly this reason because for some reason policymakers think it is.

Crowsbeak posted:

Yeah this is why I don't trust Greens. You guys basically want genocide.

Shear Modulus posted:

the magic bullet for politicians of both parties since bush has been "clean coal"

Dairy Days posted:

they don't although the current popular method for producing fertilizer does use methane as a hydrogen source but it's not the only possible hydrogen source
rev up those reactors cause we all die if they don't start getting built soon

Dairy Days posted:

im under no illusions that tech will fix everything and make anime real but ill keep praying that tech will fix everything and make anime real because the reality of our predicament is too terrifying to consider

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

suck it outta the air via massive tracts of reforestation after eliminating all for-profit logging imho

Digiwizzard posted:

The Groper posted:

It isn't genocide if everyone in the world takes part.

The Doomsday economics thread is tanking because we're in a human bubble propped up by zero interest loans from the dawn of time.

Crowsbeak posted:

Yeah, I suspect they are justextreme pessimists, and trying to make humans not have children is not going to work. Unless you use genocide.

Notorious R.I.M. posted:

It's really adorable that you discard what all of our climate and hydrological models keep saying as extreme pessimism because you would rather not think about hard problems.

Accretionist posted:

Maybe our, "standard," of living has got to go?

Crowsbeak posted:

Prove that the earth can only carry a few hundred million people.

quote:

Here, I hypothesize that perturbations of Earth’s carbon cycle lead to mass extinction if they exceed either a critical rate at long time scales or a critical size at short time scales. By analyzing 31 carbon isotopic events during the past 542 million years, I identify the critical rate with a limit imposed by mass conservation. Identification of the crossover time scale separating fast from slow events then yields the critical size. The modern critical size for the marine carbon cycle is roughly similar to the mass of carbon that human activities will likely have added to the oceans by the year 2100.

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

i’m just glad that god-emperor elon musk is performing the holy work that will allow the unlimited resources of space to fuel eternal capitalism

Notorious R.I.M. posted:

Earth can carry 8 billion people. It can't carry 8 billion people with our current resource utilization and our remaining reserves should we continue a business as usual pathway. So what are you wanting me to show again, exactly?

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

It will be much more possible to conceive of a drastic reduction to "standards of living" when meaningful social relations are restored through socialism. Part of why it's so easy to get lost in our own private worlds and not to think about the larger implications of our own behaviors, is as a result of radical alienation.

Crowsbeak posted:

Yeah, I suspect they are justextreme pessimists, and trying to make humans not have children is not going to work. Unless you use genocide.

Frankly any revolution will require that Malthusians of all types be sent to Prison Camps, for the very sake of not causing societal panics among the chattering types.