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Fintilgin posted:
I have the same fantasy but with a series of algorithms that autoprocesses Google Earth data to generate the terrain and map and best guess approximate buildings and all and then ruins them, yeah. And it's multiplayer and people carve out and defend little domains.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:27
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As far as how small cities feel in modern Fallout games, I feel like New Vegas is up there in how disappointing it feels, though granted this can be solved with mods opening up the Strip and Freeside.
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Feb 9, 2018 01:58
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Internet Kraken posted:My memory might be wrong but didn't Fallout 4 have a bunch of generic villager NPCs without names? I was gonna say Bethesda always wants even their minor pointless NPCs to be actual characters to some extent, which is the way it is in TES games (excluding guards), but I don't think they kept doing it in Fallout. I'm actually not sure why they haven't implemented more procedural generation tools for the NPCs. Names should be fairly easy to pull from a table, there's some AI variables to give people rudimentary personality, everyone already uses the same voice acting anyways, etc. Mix in a bit of Radiant quests and every generic NPC could become another Preston Garvey who you hate because he keeps asking you to get him another case of beer for the party later.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:18
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achillesforever6 posted:As far as how small cities feel in modern Fallout games, I feel like New Vegas is up there in how disappointing it feels, though granted this can be solved with mods opening up the Strip and Freeside. Yeah, New Vegas biggest problem is probably how disconnected the Strip is. Not just physically either, the Three Families all have questlines that never intersect with any of the main factions or each other and none of them even get and ending slide. A minor point since the rest of the game is so great about everything being interconnected both literally and thematically but since it's in the name of the game you do expect it to play a larger role than it does. The Pimpboy 3billion almost makes up for it, though.
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Feb 9, 2018 03:06
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achillesforever6 posted:As far as how small cities feel in modern Fallout games, I feel like New Vegas is up there in how disappointing it feels, though granted this can be solved with mods opening up the Strip and Freeside. Oh yeah. Like New Vegas is superior in just about every respect, but Vegas really felt underehelming and sort of fake/tiny. Cool set building and explorable spaces was the only thing Bethesda had over Obsidian. I imagine a lot of that was budget, team size, and experience with the engine, though.
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Feb 9, 2018 03:08
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Fintilgin posted:Oh yeah. I think the issue with this had a lot to do with optimizing for consoles. I thought my new suite at the Lucky 38 was sweet until I realized getting back there meant 4 loading screens whereas my lovely Novac motel room only needed one
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Feb 9, 2018 03:27
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Keith Atherton posted:I thought my new suite at the Lucky 38 was sweet until I realized getting back there meant 4 loading screens whereas my lovely Novac motel room only needed one Ugh, that could've been fixed with a decent fast travel point, though.
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Feb 9, 2018 03:31
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achillesforever6 posted:As far as how small cities feel in modern Fallout games, I feel like New Vegas is up there in how disappointing it feels, though granted this can be solved with mods opening up the Strip and Freeside. limitations of the engine, and also consoles being a plague on gaming
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Feb 9, 2018 03:53
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Keith Atherton posted:I think the issue with this had a lot to do with optimizing for consoles. I thought my new suite at the Lucky 38 was sweet until I realized getting back there meant 4 loading screens whereas my lovely Novac motel room only needed one I think optimizing for consoles and dealing with Bethesda's lovely engine was the reason for Vegas in general being so tiny. Freeside was originally going to be a single huge area full of people, but they had to divide it in half and make it underpopulated to avoid crashing.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:00
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chitoryu12 posted:I think optimizing for consoles and dealing with Bethesda's lovely engine was the reason for Vegas in general being so tiny. Freeside was originally going to be a single huge area full of people, but they had to divide it in half and make it underpopulated to avoid crashing. Yeah if I recall correctly a lot of the problems werent due to Gamebryo itself as a lot of people like to think but that Bethesda had Frankensteined the thing and things broke (insert Radium and the forums joke here). I thought New Vegas was no better or worse in terms of stability than other games but maybe I was lucky
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Feb 9, 2018 04:14
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Most people started playing it after it got enough patches to not die if a butterfly sneezed within ten miles of your PC.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:16
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DeathChicken posted:Most people started playing it after it got enough patches to not die if a butterfly sneezed within ten miles of your PC. I bought it release day so yeah it was rough at first but thats been my experience with every Fallout game on release (never played 4)
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Feb 9, 2018 04:24
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Keith Atherton posted:Yeah if I recall correctly a lot of the problems werent due to Gamebryo itself as a lot of people like to think but that Bethesda had Frankensteined the thing and things broke (insert Radium and the forums joke here). Basically, "Gamebryo" wasn't the problem. Gamebryo as an engine is highly modular with incredible versatility, unlike Unreal or CryEngine where games made on it all look and feel similar. Civilization IV, Rocksmith 2014, Splatterhouse, and Bully: Scholarship Edition are all Gamebryo games. New Vegas was made on basically the same stuff as Morrowind, shakily improved since 2002. It's a janky piece of crap that looked worse than a lot of its contemporaries, and combined with the need to build the game for consoles it wasn't at all suited for the kind of scope Obsidian wanted. Before New Vegas was released, Bethesda had already dropped their Gamebryo build for the Creation Engine to make Skyrim.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:26
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And from what I'm aware, the Creation Engine is still basically built on that same lovely Gamebryo implementation, it's just a version with actual optimizations and improvements made to it.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:32
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Yeah, Gamebryo itself is basically an engine for making engines, unlike Source or Unreal where the framework is set and ready. It's more comparable to a Ye Olde Unity. The Creation engine is the same as their old engine, but basically in a newer iteration of Gamebryo that makes it easier to fix poo poo. To their credit FO4 and Skyrim Legendary crash like, 90% less compared to Oblivion/Skyrim OG/FO3/FNV. And I think they recoded how the saves remember object interaction so that your save doesnt become a rapidly bloating time bomb chomping at the bit to corrupt all your saves.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:37
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Internet Wizard posted:Which Bethesda game had a desert in it? The Glowing Sea is basically a badlands with a spooky filter applied to it. IMO Bethesda's worlds look fine though. Fallout 3 was pretty ugly because it had a constant green filter, but most of their games have really nice environments.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:40
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Fintilgin posted:Oh yeah. It doesn't help that New Vegas (the city) is surrounded by the much bigger and more interesting Freeside. I love New Vegas (the game), and I liked the side stories each of the three families had (especially the white gloves), but really the only reason I go to the titular city in game is when I want to change companions.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:43
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The terrain around Nuka World was also a bit desert like, which was kind of odd given where it takes place. And on an unrelated note, out of curiosity I went and checked my Fallout 4 save folder and after some ~680 hours played it's grown to 5.86GB in size. I really need to go through and clean some of that poo poo out.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:45
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:It doesn't help that New Vegas (the city) is surrounded by the much bigger and more interesting Freeside. I love New Vegas (the game), and I liked the side stories each of the three families had (especially the white gloves), but really the only reason I go to the titular city in game is when I want to change companions. After beating New Vegas twice, I started finding new ways to play thanks to the Roleplayers Alternate Start mod and some other mods for new quests and such. Like I did one character as a bounty hunter who did nothing but the Someguy series of quests, finally deciding to hang up his hat and retire after New Vegas Bounties III took too much out of him. I once did a politician who moved into the city and spent all his time getting caught up in Strip politics and drunken misadventures with the casinos and Freeside. I tried doing a non-hero run once based on this old "NPC run" of Oblivion, where you don't go on any adventures and just survive by scavenging the ruins and taking odd jobs (the quests that aren't adventurous, like protecting the Brahmin in Novac). Surviving is legitimately difficult early on, but by the time you hit Novac you're likely to have plenty of caps and more than enough food and drink to keep going indefinitely.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:58
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Yandat posted:the entire beginning of this game makes no sense, i worry i'm being a weird pedant unable to suspend my disbelief about a videogame with giant cockroaches but for real what is this Its chill to remember just how insane the beginning of Fallout 4 is
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Feb 9, 2018 05:19
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2house2fly posted:Its chill to remember just how insane the beginning of Fallout 4 is What are you talking about, i've been waiting decades to finally be able to play a housewife perplexed by the shelf-life of her pantry, in the fallout setting
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Feb 9, 2018 05:29
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DeathChicken posted:Most people started playing it after it got enough patches to not die if a butterfly sneezed within ten miles of your PC. Yeah, I bought NV release night, and it was buggy as gently caress at release. Zone to desktop was common.
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Feb 9, 2018 06:06
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Fintilgin posted:Oh yeah.
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Feb 9, 2018 06:13
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achillesforever6 posted:Yeah I remember from the first trailer when it showed a city skyline of the city it looked way bigger and lit up than what we got (granted that's the difference between a cutscene trailer and the actual game) Another thing I have problems with is how there are too many places where it doesn't make sense that its trashed, like the NOVAC hotel rooms could at least look semi clean and not on the verge of collapse. Well Boone blew Jeannie May Crawford's head off so there was no room cleaning service
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Feb 9, 2018 06:17
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If you treat the entire "Vegas" area, including North Vegas Square, East Vegas farmland, Westside and Freeside and the Strip as one entity, it does feel like it has a decent scale. Centralized rich zones surrounded by increasing poverty the further you spread out from the Strip.
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Feb 9, 2018 06:25
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achillesforever6 posted:Yeah I remember from the first trailer when it showed a city skyline of the city it looked way bigger and lit up than what we got (granted that's the difference between a cutscene trailer and the actual game) Another thing I have problems with is how there are too many places where it doesn't make sense that its trashed, like the NOVAC hotel rooms could at least look semi clean and not on the verge of collapse. That's one thing that honestly bothers me about the newer Fallout games, 4 especially; you'd think somebody would at the very least figure out what a god damned broom is somewhere along the way. Even in Fallout 1 you had things like Shady Sands where people were building structures that didn't leak. They weren't big and didn't have modern amenities but they had solid roofs. Fast forward to Fallout 4 and most of what you can build has so many holes you start thinking "why even bother?" It would make sense if you started out building leaky shacks out of scavenged boards and sheets of rusty scrap but in a world where The Institute exists you'd think somebody, somewhere would be able to do basic carpentry. Instead we get this whole "everybody lives in horrifying squalor or are 100% isolated from the world" crap going on. Even Diamond City, supposedly a huge place that's the best the Commonwealth has to offer, is a dirty hovel.
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Feb 9, 2018 07:38
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I could buy Diamond City being a craphole 20 or 30 years after the bombs but two centuries? Come on. That's some bullshit.
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Feb 9, 2018 07:50
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Diamond City was cool because why live in the concession areas, the dugouts, the skyboxes, the offices, when you can live on the field.
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Feb 9, 2018 08:13
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ToxicSlurpee posted:That's one thing that honestly bothers me about the newer Fallout games, 4 especially; you'd think somebody would at the very least figure out what a god damned broom is somewhere along the way. Even in Fallout 1 you had things like Shady Sands where people were building structures that didn't leak. They weren't big and didn't have modern amenities but they had solid roofs. Fast forward to Fallout 4 and most of what you can build has so many holes you start thinking "why even bother?" That's why I reckon they should make the next game 20 years after the bombs fell, in a new region. It's obviously the kind of setting they'd prefer.
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Feb 9, 2018 09:49
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My favorite bit of "nobody cleans ever" in Fallout 3 was the Outcasts. Other than the Enclave they are the most advanced faction in the wasteland with tons of amazing tech. You go into their base and its a total disaster. Just tons of debris and poo poo everywhere, as if if they literally just moved into the building a second before you arrived. There are people typing on computer terminals with overturned counters literally right next to them. It would take you 5 seconds to pick that poo poo up and shove it in a closet. Even in a setting 20 years after the bombs fell I don't think people would be living in places where the floor is covered in a permanent layer of trash. I imagine everything would be filthy and dusty, that's understandable. But when you have no choice but to hunker down inside frequently to not get eaten alive by roaming scorpion hordes, you'd think these people would bother to put the trash in a corner at least.
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Feb 9, 2018 09:53
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Internet Kraken posted:My favorite bit of "nobody cleans ever" in Fallout 3 was the Outcasts. Other than the Enclave they are the most advanced faction in the wasteland with tons of amazing tech. You go into their base and its a total disaster. Just tons of debris and poo poo everywhere, as if if they literally just moved into the building a second before you arrived. There are people typing on computer terminals with overturned counters literally right next to them. It would take you 5 seconds to pick that poo poo up and shove it in a closet. Internet Kraken posted:My favorite bit of "nobody cleans ever" in Fallout 3 was the Outcasts. Other than the Enclave they are the most advanced faction in the wasteland with tons of amazing tech. You go into their base and its a total disaster. Just tons of debris and poo poo everywhere, as if if they literally just moved into the building a second before you arrived. There are people typing on computer terminals with overturned counters literally right next to them. It would take you 5 seconds to pick that poo poo up and shove it in a closet. With the amount of Abraxo cleaner everywhere they really have no excuse. Slobs.
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Feb 9, 2018 10:57
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An upper class citizen in diamond city talking down to you as he eats nondescript slop from the worlds rustiest cafeteria tray
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Feb 9, 2018 14:19
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ToxicSlurpee posted:That's one thing that honestly bothers me about the newer Fallout games, 4 especially; you'd think somebody would at the very least figure out what a god damned broom is somewhere along the way. Even in Fallout 1 you had things like Shady Sands where people were building structures that didn't leak. They weren't big and didn't have modern amenities but they had solid roofs. Fast forward to Fallout 4 and most of what you can build has so many holes you start thinking "why even bother?" With New Vegas, that was probably related to reusing Fallout 3 assets. The people behind it were some of the creators of the original Fallout games, so they'd drat well know what it's supposed to look like. The All Roads comic isn't that great, but the way it depicts the Strip and Freeside actually seems to be really close to how it's "supposed" to be.  
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Feb 9, 2018 14:23
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ToxicSlurpee posted:It would make sense if you started out building leaky shacks out of scavenged boards and sheets of rusty scrap but in a world where The Institute exists you'd think somebody, somewhere would be able to do basic carpentry. Instead we get this whole "everybody lives in horrifying squalor or are 100% isolated from the world" crap going on. Even Diamond City, supposedly a huge place that's the best the Commonwealth has to offer, is a dirty hovel. Valut City could and did, in Fallout 2. Hell, even Shady Sands in 1 appeared to be post war adobe construction.
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Feb 9, 2018 14:29
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The technical end of things really narrowed down what NV could be rather than what the vision would have been, which is a real shame because a bustling metropolis surrounding Mr. Houses clean, robotic hell would have been awesome. It just about gets the point across as it is but all those loading screens kill the eh, for want of a better word, immersion.Fintilgin posted:Valut City could and did, in Fallout 2. The NCR and Vault City (to a lesser extent San Fran) were functional, organised societies emerging from the wasteland. They had technology and know how. They even had loving social commentary to go along with it, indentured "servants" in Vault City, weird wild west capitalism in the NCR. The Bethesda games are just short on brains, they feel like a box ticking exercise or someones filling in a spreadsheet of what the game needs to have based on the focus group they did. FO4 is a step away from Farmville, if they could have gotten away with selling DLC assets for farms and poo poo they'd have done it. The everything is permanently ruined aesthetic in the 3D games feels like its just laziness, everything is a clapboard shack or a rusted ruin. Thats fine for the odd ruined town in the middle of nowhere but other wise it makes no sense. Imagine how easy it'd be to convert a multistory car park into a post apocalyptic fortress like Diamond City? Theres so much cool stuff that they just don't do in the new games. I've enjoyed them all to varying degrees, but what they could be is frustrating. Southpaugh fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 14:38
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On the other hand, you have vault 81, which after 200 years of isolation, is still sparkly white. That abraxo must work wonders.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:14
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Someone should make a mod called Wasteland Cleaner, where, armed with a broom, a dustpan and a box of abraxo cleaner, one person will change the hygiene of a nation forever. It would also probably help with gameplay performance as the junk piles being removed would free up memory.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:20
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Arcsquad12 posted:Someone should make a mod called Wasteland Cleaner, where, armed with a broom, a dustpan and a box of abraxo cleaner, one person will change the hygiene of a nation forever. One of Deacons banter lines is about this very thing, setting up a maid service with you after he retires! Radiant quests where Deacon sends you to a location or settlement to clean up. Someone get on making that right now!
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Feb 9, 2018 22:27
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I'm starting a playthrough of KOTOR 2 to see what influences it had on Obsidian's New Vegas development. I haven't given it a full playthrough in years, so I think now is the time.
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Feb 9, 2018 23:45
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was someone mentioning mods that made new vegas crafting less of a pain? it was always a cool system that i never wanted to interact with
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Feb 10, 2018 02:17
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