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How far can you go in FO4 without becoming hostile to any faction? This playthrough I'm going to eventually side with the Railroad, but until then I'd like to get as far as possible with BoS. Mainly I want to get BoS power armor with Knight, Paladin, and Sentinel paint jobs, along with eventually killing Maxon to get his unique power armor frame and Elder armor pieces, gun, and coat. That means I have to finish Blind Betrayal to get the Paladin paint, and finish A New Dawn to get Sentinel paint, and knock Maxon's fusion core out during Airship Down to take his frame. Currently I'm to here:
Apparently "continue working with Father" means doing Mass Fusion, but I know if I talk with Allie she'll eventually tell me to go to the Mass Fusion building via the relay, which will make the BoS hostile. Also, if I complete Blind Betrayal then Tactical Thinking will start automatically, making the Railroad hostile. There's gotta be another way around some of this, according to this flowchart I should be able to inform BoS I'm doing Mass Fusion and keep them friendly, which will start Spoils of War so I can gently caress up the Institute. Unfortunately, becoming hostile with the Institute should end the rest of the Railroad questline, which I guess is fine as long as I can still get access to their ballistic weave. JUST MAKING CHILI fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 02:18
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Arcsquad12 posted:I'm starting a playthrough of KOTOR 2 to see what influences it had on Obsidian's New Vegas development. I haven't given it a full playthrough in years, so I think now is the time. I don't think it would have had much influence really, except as a stark reminder to budget resources carefully and cut ruthlessly when necessary. There's definitely some resemblances to the DLCs written by Chris Avellone of course, like a bunch of people who don't like each other being forced together, a focus on sites of great destruction long after the destruction itself has taken place, and villains who don't find it in their own best interests to speak clearly to you. I think K2's crafting system was based on breaking items down to roll materials, which is basically what the vending machines in dead money do as well- also Prey from last year
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Feb 10, 2018 02:32
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2house2fly posted:I don't think it would have had much influence really, except as a stark reminder to budget resources carefully and cut ruthlessly when necessary. There's definitely some resemblances to the DLCs written by Chris Avellone of course, like a bunch of people who don't like each other being forced together, a focus on sites of great destruction long after the destruction itself has taken place, and villains who don't find it in their own best interests to speak clearly to you. I think K2's crafting system was based on breaking items down to roll materials, which is basically what the vending machines in dead money do as well- also Prey from last year kotor 2 was written by a dude that loving hated all of the standard star wars tropes and attempted to deconstruct them (with varying degrees of success). imo the things that people don't like about kotor 2 probably wouldn't have been "fixed" if they had more time/money. if you play with the extensive cut-content mods, the stuff they add back in doesn't take the story in a miraculously different direction or fundamentally change the main thrust of the plot - if anything, it adds more detail about things that you might already dislike. i think people imagine they could get another grand ole space opera with bigger set piece battles like with kotor but flashier, but that really wasn't the direction that kotor 2 was headed, no matter how much more time and money they could have had.
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Feb 10, 2018 04:19
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Even deconstructions would benefit from a final area that's actually fun to play though.
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Feb 10, 2018 05:48
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JUST MAKING CHILI posted:How far can you go in FO4 without becoming hostile to any faction? This playthrough I'm going to eventually side with the Railroad, but until then I'd like to get as far as possible with BoS. Mainly I want to get BoS power armor with Knight, Paladin, and Sentinel paint jobs, along with eventually killing Maxon to get his unique power armor frame and Elder armor pieces, gun, and coat. That means I have to finish Blind Betrayal to get the Paladin paint, and finish A New Dawn to get Sentinel paint, and knock Maxon's fusion core out during Airship Down to take his frame. Currently I'm to here: You can finish Blind Betrayal and have Tactical Thinking in your quest log as long as you never, ever speak or go near Captain Kells again. The Railroad won’t go hostile until you’ve spoken to him.
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Feb 10, 2018 12:57
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Samuel Clemens posted:Even deconstructions would benefit from a final area that's actually fun to play though. Yeah I enjoyed everything they were doing in KotOR 2, I just wanted them to have actually finished the ending instead of having a character tell me about how cool the ending would have been.
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Feb 10, 2018 17:06
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The ending to KOTOR 2 with the restored content mod is still better than the wet fart Bioware followed it up with.
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Feb 10, 2018 17:16
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yeah i played it with the restored content mod and it was basically fine story wise nothing can save the fact that it's a lovely video game adaptation of a lovely knockoff of dnd which is itself lovely
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Feb 10, 2018 21:40
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StashAugustine posted:yeah i played it with the restored content mod and it was basically fine story wise Be honest though, did anyone ever think that either Kotor game or even the MMO had good gameplay?
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Feb 10, 2018 22:25
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the mmo was kinda okay other than the endless hordes of trash mobs it insisted at throwing at you. i'd have played kotor ii more if it was merely mediocre in terms of combat
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Feb 10, 2018 22:34
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I might as well ask here while you guys are talking about it. Do the KOTOR games offer anything to someone who is at best lukewarm on the starwars franchise.
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Feb 11, 2018 00:31
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About as much as Baldur's Gate does if you're not a fan of traditional high fantasy. Or Fallout if you don't care about the post-apocalyptic aesthetic. So not really, I suppose.
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Feb 11, 2018 00:39
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Arcsquad12 posted:Be honest though, did anyone ever think that either Kotor game or even the MMO had good gameplay? Yes? I'm sure the originals are jank as gently caress by todays standards if I were to ever revisit them, but back in the day I loved it. The MMO is still good to this day, as long as you can tolerate WoW tab targeting combat.
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Feb 11, 2018 00:48
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Gaius Marius posted:I might as well ask here while you guys are talking about it. Do the KOTOR games offer anything to someone who is at best lukewarm on the starwars franchise. eh... I really like both of them, and I'm not much of a star wars fan. Do you actively dislike star wars? I mean, like a lot of Bioware stuff, KotOR is basically an excuse to engage in some candy-floss storytelling wrapped in a genre you maybe enjoy KotOR2 is some good writing but again - you're there for a slightly interactive novel. The gameplay in both can be tedious, with a fair amount of grindy battles, but I've enjoyed both of them originally, and going back to them years later
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Feb 11, 2018 00:55
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JawKnee posted:eh... I really like both of them, and I'm not much of a star wars fan. Do you actively dislike star wars? I find Star Wars to be pretty dull, the original trilogy are good movies but the prequels are boring and the new ones are trash. If it's just a janky mass effect with a star wars paint coat I'll probably stay away.
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Feb 11, 2018 01:12
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Gaius Marius posted:I find Star Wars to be pretty dull, the original trilogy are good movies but the prequels are boring and the new ones are trash. If it's just a janky mass effect with a star wars paint coat I'll probably stay away. Mass Effect is a Star Trek clone. Get your nerd poo poo straight.
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Feb 11, 2018 01:15
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Gaius Marius posted:I might as well ask here while you guys are talking about it. Do the KOTOR games offer anything to someone who is at best lukewarm on the starwars franchise. Depends on your reason to be lukewarm. KOTOR 1 is a fairly straightforward Star Wars experience transplanted to a different time period. KOTOR 2 is Chris Avellone's thirty hour long lecture series on why The Force, Jedi and Sith are all terrible ideas that only cause human suffering.
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Feb 11, 2018 01:31
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Gaius Marius posted:I find Star Wars to be pretty dull, the original trilogy are good movies but the prequels are boring and the new ones are trash. If it's just a janky mass effect with a star wars paint coat I'll probably stay away. KOTOR has one of the best plot twists in the history of everything. If you don't know what it is play it for just that.
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Feb 11, 2018 01:46
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ToxicSlurpee posted:KOTOR has one of the best plot twists in the history of everything. If you don't know what it is play it for just that. It's like the one thing I know about it Arcsquad12 posted:KOTOR 2 is Chris Avellone's thirty hour long lecture series on why The Force, Jedi and Sith are all terrible ideas that only cause human suffering. This sounds terrible, the force is pretty dumb, but Avellone is one of the most self indulgent writers I've ever seen in games and him lecturing me for thirty hours sounds hellish.
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Feb 11, 2018 01:57
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Gaius Marius posted:This sounds terrible, the force is pretty dumb, but Avellone is one of the most self indulgent writers I've ever seen in games and him lecturing me for thirty hours sounds hellish. that's extreme hyperbole. The game has some excellent moral quandaries for you to engage with, and never really falls into the 'you're either the messiah or satan incarnate' trap that KotOR often puts you in
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Feb 11, 2018 01:59
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Gaius Marius posted:It's like the one thing I know about it Yeah that right there actually ruins like half the main story soooooo...meh. Pass it if you want. Or get it on Steam during a sale and dick around with it until you lose interest.
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Feb 11, 2018 02:03
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if you know the plot twist and you hate star wars kotor i is worthless i think the best comparison for kotor ii is planescape because it's that but in space. its one of avellone's better works but if you don't like him you're probably not gonna be super hot on that
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Feb 11, 2018 02:33
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KOTOR2's big twist was no slouch at the time either. I mean since then a bunch of games have done "all the video game mechanics stuff like experience points were ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN THE STORY" but it was a bit of a trip for me at the time
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Feb 11, 2018 02:40
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JawKnee posted:that's extreme hyperbole. The game has some excellent moral quandaries for you to engage with, and never really falls into the 'you're either the messiah or satan incarnate' trap that KotOR often puts you in It does literally end with a character lecturing you for a while, though.
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Feb 11, 2018 03:28
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going to the effort of modding new vegas so it doesn't look like crap. drat i wish these games had more robust mod integration - like, i could just tick a bunch of boxes in the settings menu of mods i wanted and they'd all download and install and clashes would be a rarity. messing around with a dozen i get from external sources some of which have finicky installation processes to get things working is irritating (same deal with witcher 3).
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Feb 11, 2018 04:05
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Internet Wizard posted:It does literally end with a character lecturing you for a while, though. yeah, it does, sort of
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Feb 11, 2018 04:25
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Arcsquad12 posted:Depends on your reason to be lukewarm. KOTOR 1 is a fairly straightforward Star Wars experience transplanted to a different time period. KOTOR 2 is Chris Avellone's thirty hour long lecture series on why The Force, Jedi and Sith are all terrible ideas that only cause human suffering. Kotor 1 is a decent, early 2000's Bioware RPG. if you enjoy their early stuff, you will probably like it. it's like a decent summer action flick - nothing revolutionary, but it's a fun little ride while it lasts. the graphics look dated AF now tho, so for some people that's a hard pass. Kotor 2 is only something you'll like if you really enjoyed PS:T or otherwise enjoy games that are plot-heavy to the point that they become more like an interactive novel. Kotor 2 is so concerned about making sure that you loving appreciate the masterful tale that it's weaving that there's not just one, but TWO unskippable intro sequences, and a third that is technically skippable (but bridges the gab between the end of Kotor 1 and the start of Kotor 2, so you might not want to skip it). for a first time player, it's likely 10-15 hours into the game before you're at a point where you can explore around and do quests in whatever order you want. the ending is likewise a really narrow railroad that basically lectures you about every choice you made and explains why you're an idiot for having even bothered at all.
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Feb 11, 2018 04:25
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Neurosis posted:going to the effort of modding new vegas so it doesn't look like crap. drat i wish these games had more robust mod integration - like, i could just tick a bunch of boxes in the settings menu of mods i wanted and they'd all download and install and clashes would be a rarity. messing around with a dozen i get from external sources some of which have finicky installation processes to get things working is irritating (same deal with witcher 3). on this new install I've been using the NMM, and... it's been working pretty well actually still getting odd graphical glitches because of FCO, but that's nothing new
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Feb 11, 2018 04:26
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This little discussion inspired me to finally get around to trying KOTOR2 and goddammit that's Bob Page from Deus Ex as the security guy in the tutorial, innit? IMDB says it isn't but I'm convinced
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Feb 11, 2018 04:51
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im replaying nv and looking forward to meeting caesar now that i know he's rawls from the wire
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Feb 11, 2018 04:55
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StashAugustine posted:im replaying nv and looking forward to meeting caesar now that i know he's rawls from the wire Fun fact: the VA who did Ulysses also did the Biological Research Station. "I have walked the length and breadth of the Mohave... just waitin' for yaaaaaawwwwww seeeeeeed."
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Feb 11, 2018 05:15
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JawKnee posted:on this new install I've been using the NMM, and... it's been working pretty well actually nmm doesn't work for me. it tells me my username or password is wrong - neither is. i've tried several installs and run ccleaner to scrub the registry in between them but no dice. edit: i am incredibly stupid. i was trying to login with my email and didn't notice nmm was asking for my username. going to put on my dunce hat and sit in the corner. Neurosis fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Feb 11, 2018 |
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Feb 11, 2018 06:02
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2house2fly posted:KOTOR2's big twist was no slouch at the time either. I mean since then a bunch of games have done "all the video game mechanics stuff like experience points were ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN THE STORY" but it was a bit of a trip for me at the time Making rpg mechanics diagetic was a stroke of genius at the time, and the jedi masters' fundamental misunderstanding of you character's nature and Kreia's retribution is one of the all time great RPG moments. When I say that Kotor 2 is a lecture series, I don't necessarily mean that as a bad thing, but a lecture is only as good as the professor. If you don't like Kreia's character it will not work for you, period. Thankfully there is a game beyond Kreia as well, and it is very well written and often very funny. It's the only Star Wars game I can think of which is in set in a postwar setting rather than during the outbreak or height of a conflict. This allows the game to explore the aftermath of all those star wars that keep happening. It examines the cost that comes with war, the failure to learn from conflict, and how people are defined in battle, either finding their true selves or finding themselves lacking. Trust, strength, betrayal, trauma and echoes are all key themes within the story, and I'd argue that the layers of subtext within the game rival New Vegas in their subtleties. Kreia IS Arren Kae and there are no two ways about it.
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Feb 11, 2018 10:23
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JawKnee posted:on this new install I've been using the NMM, and... it's been working pretty well actually Stop talking about new installs, you're going to make me reinstall and try to 100% it again.
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Feb 11, 2018 16:22
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Wait what did kotor2 do with the mechanics
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Feb 11, 2018 19:28
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Killing stuff levels you up because the character is a force blackhole.
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Feb 11, 2018 19:38
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Wasn’t there also something about becoming more powerful as you collected companions because you connected to the force through them after severing your connection during the war?
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Feb 11, 2018 20:13
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Internet Wizard posted:Wasn’t there also something about becoming more powerful as you collected companions because you connected to the force through them after severing your connection during the war? yeah
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Feb 11, 2018 20:30
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Internet Wizard posted:Wasn’t there also something about becoming more powerful as you collected companions because you connected to the force through them after severing your connection during the war? Yes. You basically become a conduit for the force to flow through from others, rather than from within
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Feb 11, 2018 20:31
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Because the Force can't act through you you're also immune to "destiny" though of course the Force can still act on you through people, like your companions and Kreia
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Feb 11, 2018 21:04
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