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Tiggum posted:Because a "person" isn't a thing, it's an idea. Yeah this is not what most people would say at all. Its a very extremely nihilistic view. And before you say it, people can still exist without souls. Jeeze. You're just saying that anything subjective doesn't exist. But it obviously does. Life is all about subjective experience. Art exists. Lol. E: Although I guess "not what most people would say" is a poor argument because most people do believe in souls. Still, you can run a program and kill the program and start a new program and its not the same program instance... Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Feb 16, 2018 |
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Feb 16, 2018 03:12
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Tiggum posted:That "you" that you believe is dead and gone? Mortal soul. My belief is that "you" were never there to begin with, ie. there is no soul of any kind. E: Again, there doesn't have to be a soul to have life. Life can be a process. I can run a program on one computer instance A and on a completely different computer run a program B. Those programs are each different instances... Ugh we're just going in circles. You don't think people are alive, whatever.
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Feb 16, 2018 03:14
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Well, Altered Carbon thread, it appears you have run your course. Having exhausted speculation on how season 2 will be impacted based on the divergence the show has taken, the conversation has taken a turn on a slap fight of who can have the last word in babby's first philosophy. See you next season.
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Feb 16, 2018 03:20
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Yeah once you hit the wall of “arguing the definition of incredibly commonly used words” you’ve both stopped listening hundreds of posts ago
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Feb 16, 2018 03:27
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Proteus Jones posted:Well, Altered Carbon thread, it appears you have run your course. No see I figured it out. You bang your doubled sleeved self and whomever orgasms first is the "real" one.
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Feb 16, 2018 03:46
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Tiggum posted:It won't make the dead one feel anything because the dead one no longer exists. Its hypothetical feelings are irrelevant. No, because Sam#1 dies at 14:00. Why would he want to end his own existence unless he is suicidal, mentally ill or really believes that he will just blink and wake up in the body of Sam#2 ?? It's not Sam#1 who wakes up at 15:00, because his life and his stream of consciousness have ended. It's Sam#2, who now starts his own life. He might have the same memories, but he is a completely new instance of the original Sam, who is now dead as a dodo. 
Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Feb 16, 2018 |
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Feb 16, 2018 03:58
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Young Freud posted:Where does gender-swapped self fall into this or is that already a given? *checks list poo poo. *scraps 100 pages of lavish, incredibly detailed erotica (illustrated with as animated gifs and sectional diagrams) about banging my time-travelling VR clones from the Tom of Finland dimension. Bust Rodd posted:Wow I never thought about but I’d def clone myself and genderswap the clone and then be like “yo” and after 9 straight days of drugs and loving I’m sure we’d be sick to death of each other and I’d just let her/me bounce. RD the thread's stack and spin up the back up. Syzygy Stardust posted:I still think it would be pretty gay to suck my own dick in a different body. Pretty gay? For all this trouble, it had better be EXTREMELY gay. Rhyno posted:No see I figured it out. Somehow, the strangest, most disconcerting experience is one of the most disappointing.
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Feb 16, 2018 04:59
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To Hammerstein and Zaphod, if you're at point A and instead of a copy/paste your whole body was disassembled to the smallest pieces (atoms or whatever) and transported to point B to be reassembled exactly as it was before, would 'you' still be killed ?
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Feb 16, 2018 06:28
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I WILL MULTISLEEZE AND WE ALL WILL ENJOY OURSELVES AND NOT GIVE A poo poo ABOUT WHO THE gently caress COMES TO CLIMAX. So having not read the books is this closer to the expanse's reimagining or game of throne's rewriting?
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Feb 16, 2018 07:02
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The prohibition on multisleeving seems awful arbitrary
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Feb 16, 2018 07:19
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ZZZorcerer posted:To Hammerstein and Zaphod, if you're at point A and instead of a copy/paste your whole body was disassembled to the smallest pieces (atoms or whatever) and transported to point B to be reassembled exactly as it was before, would 'you' still be killed ? This gets into the transfer vs copy thing, its plausible there cold be tech that works both ways. The details matter. However, if its possible to ever have 2 of you then that wasn't a transfer and something is definitely killed. So for stuff like the transporter or needlecasting, its possible that 'you' aren't killed and no 'you' ever in any instance dies. But its also possible that an instance is spawned, the original is killed, and nobody is the wiser; ala The Prestige. But again the key point is moments like Bancroft shooting himself after he makes the backup and then lives on, these guys are saying even in that case Bancroft didn't die. He just "forgot" those hours of his life. That doesn't make sense.
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Feb 16, 2018 08:32
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Grognan posted:I WILL MULTISLEEZE AND WE ALL WILL ENJOY OURSELVES AND NOT GIVE A poo poo ABOUT WHO THE gently caress COMES TO CLIMAX. I haven't watched eithet of those shows but there are some major changes from the books. Tak's backstory in particular is heavily altered (no pun intended) and not for the better.
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Feb 16, 2018 08:43
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Grognan posted:I WILL MULTISLEEZE AND WE ALL WILL ENJOY OURSELVES AND NOT GIVE A poo poo ABOUT WHO THE gently caress COMES TO CLIMAX. It's about 90% true to the book plot but took some dramatic liberties the book didn't.
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Feb 16, 2018 09:13
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The Ninth Layer posted:It's about 90% true to the book plot but took some dramatic liberties the book didn't. More like about 60-70%, due to some laughably terrible alterations to Kovacs' origins amd various characters.
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Feb 16, 2018 10:03
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Grognan posted:I WILL MULTISLEEZE AND WE ALL WILL ENJOY OURSELVES AND NOT GIVE A poo poo ABOUT WHO THE gently caress COMES TO CLIMAX. Joke's on you, cause your 1:1 clone has the same character and won't care either.
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Feb 16, 2018 10:39
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Neddy Seagoon posted:More like about 60-70%, due to some laughably terrible alterations to Kovacs' origins amd various characters. 70% on the high side is probably too generous. 60% true to the book is probably about right.
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Feb 16, 2018 14:16
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Is this why episode 7 was such poo poo?
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Feb 16, 2018 14:20
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There Bias Two posted:Is this why episode 7 was such poo poo? YEP
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Feb 16, 2018 14:20
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Zaphod42 posted:lol, we've finally hit paydirt Zaphod42 posted:How do computers work if nothing holds data and data doesn't exist in our universe? Zaphod42 posted:You're just saying that anything subjective doesn't exist. But it obviously does. Life is all about subjective experience. Art exists. Lol. Zaphod42 posted:You don't think people are alive, whatever. Hammerstein posted:No, because Sam#1 dies at 14:00. Why would he want to end his own existence unless he is suicidal, mentally ill or really believes that he will just blink and wake up in the body of Sam#2 ?? Not quite. You're not depicting the fork. It's an important aspect of this model that both versions from the point of the backup are equally valid. There is no distinction between "original" and "copy" because both are representations of the same data.
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Feb 16, 2018 14:33
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There Bias Two posted:Is this why episode 7 was such poo poo? I am still considering that my reaction to the home stretch of this season might have been seriously soured because of that alone edit: you get ep7 then Reileen spouting ever more hideous lines and being inconsistent as gently caress does no favors at all 
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Feb 16, 2018 14:40
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There Bias Two posted:Is this why episode 7 was such poo poo? dead comedy forums posted:I am still considering that my reaction to the home stretch of this season might have been seriously soured because of that alone Episode seven is what happened when the writers were allowed to step away from the book's plot. Aren't ya just looking forward to a potential second season entirely based on their own scriptwriting now? 
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Feb 16, 2018 15:05
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Was Carnage an AI wearing a synthetic body?
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Feb 16, 2018 16:53
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Pastry Mistakes posted:Was Carnage an AI wearing a synthetic body? Nope, human stack in a Synth body. It's generally not something you want to have, because they're considered cheap and nasty. Not to mention needing regular tune-ups.
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Feb 16, 2018 16:57
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Caganer posted:The prohibition on multisleeving seems awful arbitrary I find the idea of arbitrary prohibitions pretty unrealistic in my fiction.
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Feb 16, 2018 17:22
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I missed it, how did Ana Elliot end up separated from her sleeve?
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Feb 16, 2018 17:29
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Dietrich posted:I missed it, how did Ana Elliot end up separated from her sleeve? She just got done for Dipping, which is a hacking technique of breaking into the needlecast/backup update streams of celebrities to pick up a memory or two.l as they go by. Big money for VR and tabloids, or just your own private collection. It also makes a changed plot beat needlessly complex at the end. See if you can guess it from what I just described. Ava doesn't need that close-proximity antenna-on-a-deadline bullshit, she can just watch the backup go and insert the virus along the way to Rei's storage site. Like how it actually goes in the book.
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Feb 16, 2018 17:38
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And in the book her real sleeve is a big blonde woman, and gets resleeved into a small Asian woman. There’s a nice scene where as soon as she’s got her new body she bangs her husband and they both feel miserable because he felt like he was being unfaithful to her.
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Feb 16, 2018 18:48
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Nope, human stack in a Synth body. It's generally not something you want to have, because they're considered cheap and nasty. Not to mention needing regular tune-ups. Yeah, the show did a bad job of making synth sleeves as undesirable as they are in the books, which kind of sucks since lovely synth sleeves answer the question of “what are poor people sleeving into/where do the bodies all come from”? In the books they’re unpleasant to look at in an uncanny valley type way (like the one Lizzy sleeves into, but without being able to shift out of it), and awful to live in (everything tastes kind of like curried sawdust).
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Feb 16, 2018 19:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeMVvty5b0g For those that haven't read the book, this video provides a pretty fair breakdown of book vs. show in case you're interested. In terms of the style of writing, the sex scene being read aloud at the beginning of the video is actually pretty indicative of the writing style of the book.
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Feb 16, 2018 22:46
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Tiggum posted:
I'm not going to dig out the book because I'm lazy but one way this argument gets put is imagine you decided to go on a mission to another star system. Its a long way away so you have to be put into long term sleep like in the aliens movies. Because its a long way away and there is uncertainty NASA or whoever make a perfect clone of you so if there is a technical mishap you have a backup. The mishap happens and the spaceship crashes. You land on the surface of the earth like planet and you are still alive but you're going to die. You are in pain but entirely lucid. Your clone comes out of wreckage. He's fine. He tells you don't worry about dying I will continue. Are you comforted by this? My immediate answer was no, absolutely not. I'm going to loving die and I don't care that you're going to discover and know things I never will. Because I'm the kind of person who might enjoy asking people absurd hypothetical questions from time to time I put the question to my sister. She was like that would be ok. Not ideal but she would be comforted by her clone and the idea of herself continuing in the universe. I don't really know how to react to that perspective. I thought the end of the prestige was ridiculous because it turns out a guy has elected to kill himself hundreds of times without a moment of hesitation. other people thought it was cool because as far as they're concerned the newly generated hugh jackman is the same. To the rest of the thread I apologize because I know you wanted to get past this but I want to react to it and I promise not to drag it out for pages. Goofballs fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Feb 16, 2018 |
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Feb 16, 2018 22:50
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Tiggum posted:Computers hold representations of data. A vertical line is not the number one, it's a representation of the number one. The signfier is not the signified. Ceci n'est pas une pipe Then data doesn't even exist, as you define it. Its an idea that never takes place in our universe. What does exist are representations, and each representation of a data set is unique and separate from other representations. Finally found the word you like. Its not 'version', its not 'instance', its 'representation'. Got it. Tiggum posted:The subjective, by definition, does not exist. A picture exists, a song exists, a statue exists, a movie exists, but art is in the the of beholder. Break down the universe and you will find not one single molecule of "art". The entire field of philosophy would love to disagree with you. Not having molecules of art doesn't mean subjective doesn't exist. I watch a movie and I feel things; the subjective exists. QED. You're arguing some weird "I think, therefor I am not" argument. Tiggum posted:I think people are alive. I just don't think that objectively means anything. Life, like art, is subjective. ...but the subjective doesn't exist; according to you. So, like I keep saying, your view is that life doesn't exist. K. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Feb 17, 2018 |
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Feb 17, 2018 00:23
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Episode seven is what happened when the writers were allowed to step away from the book's plot. Aren't ya just looking forward to a potential second season entirely based on their own scriptwriting now? Game of Thrones all over again. Episode 7 is basically GOT season 5-onwards.
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Feb 17, 2018 00:25
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Yeah, the show did a bad job of making synth sleeves as undesirable as they are in the books, which kind of sucks since lovely synth sleeves answer the question of “what are poor people sleeving into/where do the bodies all come from”? In the books they’re unpleasant to look at in an uncanny valley type way (like the one Lizzy sleeves into, but without being able to shift out of it), and awful to live in (everything tastes kind of like curried sawdust). Ah man, this adds so much! But I guess making unrealistic synth bodies would cost even more money. Realistic synths are easy... just hire somebody. But if you want to intentionally go uncanny valley you need heavy prosthetics and makeup. Agreed to all of this. Hate to keep harping on the same subject since I've kinda said all I can about it, but I'm right there with you dude.
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Feb 17, 2018 00:28
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Zaphod42 posted:Hate to keep harping on the same subject since I've kinda said all I can about it No you don’t. Just when we think you’ve cleared the thread and we can start talking about the show and book and the potential impact on adapting the other books, you come charging back with multiple back to back posts you’ve been spending your away time on. And you will keep coming back until you get the last the word, which I guess means you win? Stop it. Or better yet start a thread the existential dread you seem to be suffering from. Or not. I don’t care. Just go away and stop making GBS threads up this thread.
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Feb 17, 2018 00:38
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Proteus Jones posted:Well, Altered Carbon thread, it appears you have run your course. IMO a soul is your collection of thoughts and experiences! NO! it's the combined accumulation of a lifetime of emotions and actions! Proteus Jones posted:No you don’t. Just when we think you’ve cleared the thread and we can start talking about the show and book and the potential impact on adapting the other books, you come charging back with multiple back to back posts you’ve been spending your away time on.
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Feb 17, 2018 00:47
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i hope when i die they put my brain data in a drone and i can go seek out civilizations and buzz their aircraft carriers
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Feb 17, 2018 00:55
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Yeah I mean if you guys ever made new points it might have been a fun discussion but you guys pulled a pretty big TVIV and just reposted the same thing back and forth for like 50 pages I assure you it had the exact opposite effect that you hoped (we think you are dumb instead of smart)
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Feb 17, 2018 01:04
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Zaphod42 posted:Not having molecules of art doesn't mean subjective doesn't exist. I watch a movie and I feel things; the subjective exists. QED. Ahahahahahaha. Demonstrate to my subjective experience that you even have an independent subjective experience of your own*. That D at the end of QED is gonna gently caress you up every time. *Please don't.
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Feb 17, 2018 01:24
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Bust Rodd posted:Yeah I mean if you guys ever made new points it might have been a fun discussion but you guys pulled a pretty big TVIV and just reposted the same thing back and forth for like 50 pages I assure you it had the exact opposite effect that you hoped (we think you are dumb instead of smart) They passed "dumb" fifty laps ago.
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Feb 17, 2018 02:27
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one thing I am curious about is how they are going to address the elder race/martians in the future seasons, since its their tech after all that allows the entire setting to be possible apparently the next books have a lapse in quality so perhaps "televisual adaptation creativity" might work in their favor here (one can hope at least)
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Feb 17, 2018 03:41
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