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Dexo posted:T'Challa has to fail to capture(well fail to keep Klaw captured) first. That failure is what leads to dissent and lack of faith in that one guy who's name I forget. So when Killmonger shows up with Klaw's dead body he can claim your current and new king is a failure. Yeah, the long and short of it is that Daniel Kaluuya's character hoped that T'Challa taking the throne would stop the current policy of "hey we're going to let the dude who killed your parents run around randomly". Mostly by coincidence and prioritization, T'Challa not bringing back Klaw the first time around was a sign that said policy would be continued. Probably not enough to revolt then and there, but then someone else comes by and actually brings Klaw's body in? Okay, now you've got a person to support.
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Feb 18, 2018 07:36
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The only part of the movie I really really really did not like was WHAT ARE THOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSE
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Feb 18, 2018 07:40
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I’ll take any vine reference in these trying times.
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Feb 18, 2018 08:06
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Did anyone else think Michael B Jordan’s acting was like really really really bad? The screenwriters and Coogler gave him all the tools necessary to shine and he pretty much flubbed them all, unconvincingly delivering his lines like he was performing middle school Shakespeare on stage. His throne room scenes are horrid in particular. The motivation was laid out clear as day, but he couldn’t convincingly act it. Really killed my immersion. Andy Serkis blew him out of the loving water with like 30 minutes invested in his backstory.
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Feb 18, 2018 08:14
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That thing was dead in 2016, I just feel like it really poorly dates the film. It'd be like if the they started doing gangnam style in one of the south korean scenes or if they did the shooting stars thing to represent him going to speak with his ancestors or if they had any of his warriors do that ugandan knuckles thing during the civil war at the end or if the white cia guy said "SOMEBODY TOUCHA MY SPINETT" after waking up from getting healed after the bullet hit him. It just really takes me out of the film.
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Feb 18, 2018 08:19
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I didn't mind WHAT ARE THOSE, if only because it's a scene that shows us how close T'Challa and Shuri are as siblings. That was the point of that scene. but really I would have liked to see more of the Dora Milaje, and more Okoye in general
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Feb 18, 2018 08:22
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FirstAidKite posted:That thing was dead in 2016, I just feel like it really poorly dates the film. It'd be like if the they started doing gangnam style in one of the south korean scenes or if they did the shooting stars thing to represent him going to speak with his ancestors or if they had any of his warriors do that ugandan knuckles thing during the civil war at the end or if the white cia guy said "SOMEBODY TOUCHA MY SPINETT" after waking up from getting healed after the bullet hit him. I agree it should’ve been a more timeless vine. Like “ahh i could’ve dropped my croissant.
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Feb 18, 2018 08:40
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Or maybe just don't put memes in your movie e: I would have allowed it if it was "back at it again at krispy kreme" FirstAidKite fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 08:49
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Didn't know that was a meme. Black folks talk like that in general when it comes to style so I thought it was just an extension of that. The women in the movie are awesome. The very first action shot of mbaka's tribe is a woman smashing someone. The general was killing it with her staff, had the audience cheering.
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Feb 18, 2018 08:58
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MisterBibs posted:I struggled with some of the accents in the movie and I could've missed this, but was there rationale about not taking Erik with him, if there was one? I mean, he was planning on taking his brother back... T'Chaka wanted to keep the fact that he murdered his brother a secret, and he couldn't really do that if he showed up with his brother's now-orphaned son.
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Feb 18, 2018 09:16
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I thought that was a meta joke about product placement, like you expect him to wipe up some nikes like Will Smith in that robot movie.
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Feb 18, 2018 09:46
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straight up brolic posted:Did anyone else think Michael B Jordan’s acting was like really really really bad? Pretty much the exact opposite.
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Feb 18, 2018 10:15
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Killmonger's father we-must-liberate-all-the-black-people mission felt a little odd to me because black people are as fractured along ethnic, tribal, and religious lines as European ones (or even more so these days; there are no civil wars in Europe right now). It made no sense to me that N'Jobu saw African-Americans as "his" people. I'm not trying to be a troll by saying this, BTW.
Kurzon fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 10:35
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Dexo posted:T'Challa has to fail to capture (well fail to keep Klaue captured) first. That failure is what leads to dissent and lack of faith in that one guy who's name I forget. That seemed kind of harsh to me, it was literally his first day.
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Feb 18, 2018 10:45
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FirstAidKite posted:Or maybe just don't put memes in your movie Hell yes.
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Feb 18, 2018 10:53
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Got back from Black Panther. Liked it a lot! Couldn't help but notice that the movie is more about disenfranchised black people in the US than it is about native black Africans. I suppose that comes with the territory, you use a fake country with a trillion dollar economy and super advanced technology and you don't really have room to address the real continent of Africa and the advancements they've made on their own, post-colonialism. Instead, the worries of Wakanda are of keeping the country secret and protecting that secret, so the ideas of reaching out and helping others is shot down. Very unheroic, so it feels very natural that they'd surrender that secret at the end of the movie in order to help other nations, and reinforces the idea that Black Panther is not just a superhero, but a king with a country behind him. But the fact that the first place they try to help are black American communities instead of other African countries shows that this movie isn't really about Africa. You could spin it as African nations not needing help, and that it's really the US that needs help, and I won't deny it could be read like that, but still, only having the looks of an African country doesn't mean it can replace Ghana, or Zimbabwe, or Rwanda. But then the movie isn't about Ghana, Zimbabwe or Rwanda, but about the generational divide that split American black people apart from their history. Wakanda is not the home that Erik knew, it was his father's home, and he comes to Wakanda to reclaim his heritage. He wants to see the sun set on his homeland. oh and also take over the world with African UFOs and lazers So really, this is a pretty neat movie built within the Marvel superhero framework, meaning it touches on interesting ideas but can't commit to them because it's primarily about action and heroics, with the deeper themes at play mostly being used for motivation, not commentary. Also CIA agent Bilbo tagging along felt weirdly out of place? Every scene he was in after Korea he just kinda wandered around in, lost and confused and not really contributing to the plot and they didn't even properly show him surviving that explosion, he just shows up at the UN meeting at the end. straight up brolic posted:Did anyone else think Michael B Jordan’s acting was like really really really bad? Not at all. He wasn't the most outlandish Marvel lead we've had but he sells the idea that he's a king and a man. Maybe you didn't like his brand of Kool-Aid but I bought it. Kurzon posted:Killmonger's father we-must-liberate-all-the-black-people mission felt a little odd to me because black people are as fractured along ethnic, tribal, and religious lines as European ones (or even more so these days; there are no civil wars in Europe right now) Ukraine is a thing. I think Spain came pretty close to being a thing recently? Those are both in Europe as far as I remember. SatansBestBuddy fucked around with this message at 10:57 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 10:55
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:Quite possibly my favorite Marvel flick to date. I Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:I'm sure there's plenty to nitpick on subsequent viewings, Or on initial viewings. Arist posted:Like, I'm not saying Erik's plan was good, because it wasn't. It was plainly imperialist and at best would have caused far more suffering than it could possibly have allieviated. But the movie is clear that he and T'Challa need to reconcile their viewpoints to help solve these problems. You could say the truth is somewhere in the middle. Krazyface posted:That seemed kind of harsh to me, it was literally his first day. Well, when your hero needs some random, ineffectual goons to fight, who cares about actual characterisation? SatansBestBuddy posted:So really, this is a pretty neat movie built within the Marvel superhero framework, meaning it touches on interesting ideas but can't commit to them because it's primarily about action and heroics, You've just described every MCU film. Every. Single. One.
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Feb 18, 2018 11:51
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SatansBestBuddy posted:Ukraine is a thing. I think Spain came pretty close to being a thing recently? Those are both in Europe as far as I remember. SatansBestBuddy posted:So really, this is a pretty neat movie built within the Marvel superhero framework, meaning it touches on interesting ideas but can't commit to them because it's primarily about action and heroics, with the deeper themes at play mostly being used for motivation, not commentary.
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Feb 18, 2018 12:24
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Snowman_McK posted:Oh, Icarus. Do you have rain on everyone's parade when they have the audacity to say they like the film?
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Feb 18, 2018 12:31
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I had no idea that "WHAT ARE THOSE?" was any sort of reference to a meme. I thought it was just Shuri giving her brother poo poo for casually wearing open toed sandals into the high tech lab where she was working her rear end off trying to develop stuff for him.
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Feb 18, 2018 12:44
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Yeah that was a nice moment. No idea there was a Vine involved.
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Feb 18, 2018 12:46
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Kurzon posted:Killmonger's father we-must-liberate-all-the-black-people mission felt a little odd to me because black people are as fractured along ethnic, tribal, and religious lines as European ones (or even more so these days; there are no civil wars in Europe right now). It made no sense to me that N'Jobu saw African-Americans as "his" people. I'm not trying to be a troll by saying this, BTW. You should check out the book post traumatic slave syndrome by Dr Joy DeGruy. She talks about how Africans see us as the taken ones, but still African.
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Feb 18, 2018 12:49
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also if all vine fans are like my sister, then they will randomly watch old ones anyway
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Feb 18, 2018 13:00
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There's also the subtext of N'Jobu getting a bit more ingrained into this society than he'd originally intended, considering that he ended up having and raising an actual child with someone there. Honestly, Nakia's mindset isn't so different from his either. It seems that a lot of these Wakandan spies living out there in the "real world" end up advocating that Wakanda should do more for that world. Nakia outright rejects being queen of Wakanda because she's grown to sympathize so much with the people she's actually been living amongst. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Feb 18, 2018 |
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Feb 18, 2018 13:01
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Arist posted:Sure, if you ignore all context jfc
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Feb 18, 2018 13:07
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Arist posted:Sure, if you ignore all context If the 2nd credit scene was cia dude pulling a revolver ocelot and saying the plan worked, the movie wouldn't have changed a bit. He treats them like poo poo until he is saved/realizes they have value, earns their trust and then is instrumental in getting them to hand over tech to the US. He should've whipped off a mask to reveal to be Black widow. The movie uses black history without doing it's home work, as black isolation is a good thing for our people considering the United States history like Tulsa's black wall Street.
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Feb 18, 2018 13:15
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I saw the movie last night, and for once the hype isn't wrong, it manages to rise above the swamp of mediocrity that most of marvels movies finds itself stuck in, and is one of the best marvel movies so far, on par with the winter soldier. This is in spite of the story though, and not because of it. It's carried by a phenomenal cast and a vibrant and (for me) original setting. T'chala's sister is fantastic, and so is bald general lady, this is definitely a film where the women stand head and shoulders over the men. The special in the final act are terrible though, and we yet again get the hero facing off against an evil version of himself. The story is a bit of a mess as well. Wakanda starts out as an alt-right nazi wet dream. A high-tech paradise where only those of proper blood may inhabit, with a wall to shut out unwanted outsiders, and by the end the movie ostensibly rejects this utopia as selfish and self-destructive, as such thinking is toxic and created a terrorist that almost plunged the world in to a civil war. It argues that it is a responsibility for the strong and prosporous to help those in need. So far it's well and good. But it also made the antagonist so relatable that most people actually were rooting for what is in effect a Wakandan Osama Bin Ladin orchestrating a violent overthrow of the worlds governments. . They portray the CIA agent as noble and heroic, even as the villian is using tactics straight out of CIA's playbook. Killmonger is supposed to be a critique of the CIA and their history of destabilizing foreign nations and overthrowing legitimate governments, but the actual CIA stooge is totally a good guy? What? The movie argues that Wakanda was wrong to close itself of from the world, and it argues Killmonger, a tragic product of white imperialism, has the right idea but the wrong methods, but all this is undercut by that loving CIA goon hanging around and saying poo poo like "yeah we totally do that all the time" and no one bats an eye. Winter Soldier suffered from the same problem. It argued that the US intelligence agencies were using tactics and ideas that made it indistinguishable from HYDRA, and then it kneecapped itself by having everyone just separate into team good and team nazi in the final act. If they want to condemn the CIA and US government for being evil and oppressing minorities, then do it, don't just half rear end it. I also find it's critique of the western world tepid at best. it pays lipservice to the oppression black people feel in the west in a few throwaway lines with Killmongers dad and himself.
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Feb 18, 2018 13:34
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bushisms.txt posted:If the 2nd credit scene was cia dude pulling a revolver ocelot and saying the plan worked, the movie wouldn't have changed a bit. He treats them like poo poo until he is saved/realizes they have value, earns their trust and then is instrumental in getting them to hand over tech to the US. He should've whipped off a mask to reveal to be Black widow. The movie uses black history without doing it's home work, as black isolation is a good thing for our people considering the United States history like Tulsa's black wall Street. Tulsa black wallstreet didn't have stealth jets. I don't mean to sound glib here, I just want to point out that Wakanda has the means to defend itself against aggressors in a way that black people in the US didn't. Ironically, the Black Panther movement was, I believe, a well-armed militia with the means to defend itself, but it scared white folks so much they enacted laws to disarm them. (I think, correct me if I'm wrong)
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Feb 18, 2018 13:38
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i havent seen the movie but I read that the end credits scene is black panther giving white men all Wakanda's secrets which seems like a phenomenally bad idea *cut to Trump in a piss-powered vibranium deathsuit*
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Feb 18, 2018 13:43
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I'm not sure what else he could've done? Contacted every nation/culture that he likes in secret and ask them not to tell the white man?
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Feb 18, 2018 13:58
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nopantsjack posted:i havent seen the movie but I read that the end credits scene is black panther giving white men all Wakanda's secrets which seems like a phenomenally bad idea It's T'challa making an announcement that Wakanda will no longer stand apart and will begin outreaching to the rest of the world. Can also be read as dumping on Trump if you squint an eye... "wise men build bridges, fools build walls".
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Feb 18, 2018 14:00
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My theater went straight from a trailer for Tomb Raider, into the part of film where they are telling the history of Wakanda with the black sand tech. Was there anything in the movie before that point? Normally they'll play a bunch of ads and "please silent your phones!" PSA type bits before every movie. I'm assuming I didn't miss anything, and they were doing it to save time to pack in even more Black Panther screenings (they had almost 40, all sold out!) but wanted to make sure.
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Feb 18, 2018 14:05
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Steve2911 posted:I'm not sure what else he could've done? Contacted every nation/culture that he likes in secret and ask them not to tell the white man? what part of modern society, particularly MCU modern society, made him think what we really need is insane weaponry? like what, now Shield is gonna build even better ethnic cleansing flying fortresses?
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Feb 18, 2018 14:16
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nopantsjack posted:what part of modern society, particularly MCU modern society, made him think what we really need is insane weaponry? I might be forgetting something but I don't remember any weaponry being offered to anyone?
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Feb 18, 2018 14:22
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Sirotan posted:My theater went straight from a trailer for Tomb Raider, into the part of film where they are telling the history of Wakanda with the black sand tech. Was there anything in the movie before that point? Normally they'll play a bunch of ads and "please silent your phones!" PSA type bits before every movie. I'm assuming I didn't miss anything, and they were doing it to save time to pack in even more Black Panther screenings (they had almost 40, all sold out!) but wanted to make sure. Nah, that's the start. The movie didn't show its title until after the first mid credits scene, did it?
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Feb 18, 2018 14:24
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Steve2911 posted:I might be forgetting something but I don't remember any weaponry being offered to anyone? as far as i heard the movie ends with people being like "but what does wakanda have to offer the world?" as in, they're gonna share their super tech
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Feb 18, 2018 14:24
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nopantsjack posted:as far as i heard the movie ends with people being like "but what does wakanda have to offer the world?" as in, they're gonna share their super tech This assumes T'Challa is a massive idiot so I'm guessing the answer to that question isn't 'here have some guns'.
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Feb 18, 2018 14:37
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Steve2911 posted:This assumes T'Challa is a massive idiot so I'm guessing the answer to that question isn't 'here have some guns'. "here is our vibranium powered super MRI machine, you can use it to-" *america builds a big bomb* iirc bilbo is a CIA agent right? is that why he's trying to get in good with BP, that would actually be sorta smart
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Feb 18, 2018 14:44
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nopantsjack posted:"here is our vibranium powered super MRI machine, you can use it to-" MCU America already has a stockpile of alien tech so powerful that even amateurs were able to turn it into superweapons more destructive than anything the wakandans are depicted using.
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Feb 18, 2018 15:23
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The whole point of the movie is that Wakanda's advancements means it has better things to offer the world than more violence.
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Feb 18, 2018 15:30
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