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Fangrim posted:Now I am wondering... What does Chris Roberts think when he boots up SC and see the shitfest it is? If TheAgent's leaks are anything to go by(1, 2) Chris expects backers to continue funding the project indefinitely. I don't think they will, but they are very stupid.  Taking into consideration everything they've shown publicly, I believe strongly the progress on the game as pitched is 0% done. Except maybe 3D assets; but even in that case, they seem to have gone with a very manual process that doesn't scale at all. Artists spend literally years perfecting the appearance, damage states, animations, etc. In the recent AtV this artist talks about manually placing all the different wires and spark effects that you'll see when a section blows off. Uhhh What!? If you have a hundred ships left to do wouldn't it be wiser to make a handful of 'critical damage here' effects and apply them as needed? Imagine painting blood on every possible damage location for a counter strike character. It wouldn't make sense right? Same principle, just apply the decal anywhere damage impacts. Does Chris think that wouldn't be detailed enough? Perhaps that is difficult to impossible with the vehicle model in CryEngine? I don't know the answer. Ok let's pretend you wanna spend another four years pixel perfecting every ship because your boss is an incredible sperg who thinks there is no limit on scope, scale, or funding. The other scalability problem becomes apparent, once you get a couple of these 100,000 poly ships on screen, the client and/or server start making GBS threads themselves. You just destroyed the possibility of massive player battles everyone is expecting by putting more emphasis on the art than the gameplay design. Backers will of course handwave this away thinking all performance problems can be solved later. That is a fantasy of software optimization, There are a multitude of reasons as to why you can't simply bolt on better perfomance if the design is poor or bloated.
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Feb 20, 2018 15:29
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Beet Wagon posted:I can't tell you how many posts I've made or seen guys like Beer make on reddit going "Dude, you guys know they're just gonna end up doing instances, right?" only to get literally bowled over with people actually furious that you'd dare impugn Chris Roberts's honor. 
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Feb 20, 2018 15:31
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Beet Wagon posted:It's not even just that it reminds people of Elite, really. They hung their hat on this incredible new server technology they were going to wizard up. I can't tell you how many posts I've made or seen guys like Beer make on reddit going "Dude, you guys know they're just gonna end up doing instances, right?" only to get literally bowled over with people actually furious that you'd dare impugn Chris Roberts's honor. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7ys31y/clive_johnson_on_the_initial_implementation_of/  
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Feb 20, 2018 15:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPrQ0PDtZjo
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Feb 20, 2018 15:39
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Daztek posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7ys31y/clive_johnson_on_the_initial_implementation_of/ I'm the loading screen for your bullets as they travel between servers lol 
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Feb 20, 2018 15:40
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Virtual Captain posted:Taking into consideration everything they've shown publicly, I believe strongly the progress on the game as pitched is 0% done. Except maybe 3D assets; but even in that case, they seem to have gone with a very manual process that doesn't scale at all. This is my stance, and you're literally the only other person I've seen in the thread who agrees with it. I've seen completion percentages floated around here that run from 15% to 35% and all of them are so far above what's actually done I'm hard-pressed to understand where the number was drawn from. You can't just list stretch goals, check off which ones were completed, and extrapolate a percentage from that. Not every goal takes the same amount of work, and many goals have underlying dependencies that might change, rendering earlier work useless, even though a week ago it was marked "complete." On top of that you have Chris, the anti-developer, the true enemy of the project, destroying all the work because of his moronic views and opinions, all of which run contrary to game design. Forget the Star Citizen PU: it's dead. Everyone's working on the SQ42 model-viewer now. Stay frosty.
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Feb 20, 2018 15:46
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Virtual Captain posted:Backers will of course handwave this away thinking all performance problems can be solved later. That is a fantasy of software optimization, There are a multitude of reasons as to why you can't simply bolt on better perfomance if the design is poor or bloated. Indeed. Anyone with actual (non-trivial) development experience knows that there is a certain point when it becomes harder and more expensive to optimize. And that point is long past on Star Citizen. I wouldn't mind if Chris and Co. admitted that they are accruing technical debt and making the final product more expensive, in order to make money now and keep the project alive. But admitting that would cause the whole house of cards to collapse, so they're cultivating this weird notion that they're sitting on in-progress revolutionary technology, when in fact they're sitting on a pile of hacks and kludges, that will either have to be thrown away or infect anything put on top. This is becoming increasingly obvious even to non-tech savvy outsiders, leading to backers becoming increasingly isolated in a greater gaming community that once had a fairly positive outlook on the future of this project, but now, at best consider it an unremarkable P2W game in the making, and at worst a downright scam.
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Feb 20, 2018 15:48
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SomethingJones posted:I was chatting to a girl who does online or mobile advertising stuff with facebook, I was slightly drunk but the gist was that it learns your route home from work and throws adverts up for things that you will find on your way home Nope that’s all real. BLE (Bluetooth Low-Energy) beacons can be installed anywhere, and most major cities have them all over the place. Your phone is constantly broadcasting its MAC address, and these beacons sit and listen for that broadcast, and relay it to servers. In short, they can detect your phone as you move past it whether you want to be tracked or not. If you opt in, beacons can send you push notifications about stuff in your area, like “yo get urself a delicious pumpkin spice latte from that Starbucks right there.” What I find even more sketchy is Google’s location service. I actually wrote some code for a mobile web app that, before it sends an http request, accesses your phone’s wifi controller, pulls your MAC address and a list of all IP addresses it knows about (radio, your wifi, and all the wireless routers in your vicinity), and sends them in the http request. Google has a giant learning engine running behind the scenes that gathers IP and MAC address data about wifi hotspots, and can passively figure out, over time, where ALL wireless routers are geographically located to a high degree of accuracy. So now all I have to do is forward a list of IP (or SSID, or MAC) addresses your phone is close to, and this service will tell me, very accurately, where you are. Geo-location is a huge deal in the mobile advertising world, and companies pay beaucoup bucks for this kind of stuff. In a way, these kinds of technology are really the ones driving the tech business. The last 3 companies I’ve worked for have been advertising/marketing companies. This is why I’m actually serious when I say GDPR is a terrible idea. Mess with user data in a material way and ad revenues plummet. If ad revenues fall far enough, gratz government, enjoy your global recession.
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Feb 20, 2018 15:50
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Toops posted:Geo-location is a huge deal in the mobile advertising world, and companies pay beaucoup bucks for this kind of stuff. In a way, these kinds of technology are really the ones driving the tech business. The last 3 companies I’ve worked for have been advertising/marketing companies. This is why I’m actually serious when I say GDPR is a terrible idea. Mess with user data in a material way and ad revenues plummet. If ad revenues fall far enough, gratz government, enjoy your global recession. While I don't agree that marketing is essential to keeping the economy healthy, I do agree that it's driving a lot of innovation (that will hopefully end with more benign applications down the road). Your post reminded me of this weird claim by some tech-ad-guru (the name escapes me) that advertisment was the most eco-friendly of all commodities, as it added (perceived) value to consumer products without requiring those products to have higher production costs. That's of course bullshit, as marketing and advertisment most certainly has an energy and resource footprint, but it was a funny claim nevertheless, and not entirely without merit.
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Feb 20, 2018 15:54
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PederP posted:Indeed. Anyone with actual (non-trivial) development experience knows that there is a certain point when it becomes harder and more expensive to optimize. And that point is long past on Star Citizen. I wouldn't mind if Chris and Co. admitted that they are accruing technical debt and making the final product more expensive, in order to make money now and keep the project alive. But admitting that would cause the whole house of cards to collapse, so they're cultivating this weird notion that they're sitting on in-progress revolutionary technology, when in fact they're sitting on a pile of hacks and kludges, that will either have to be thrown away or infect anything put on top. This is becoming increasingly obvious even to non-tech savvy outsiders, leading to backers becoming increasingly isolated in a greater gaming community that once had a fairly positive outlook on the future of this project, but now, at best consider it an unremarkable P2W game in the making, and at worst a downright scam. There are so many clues if you play on the PTU, or watch any of the footage, that this game was created, from the ground up, by people who have no idea how to do this, led by a thumb who actually has negative knowledge of how to do it. I've seen poo poo on the PTU happen that I've never seen before - things break in ways I didn't even know they could break. You watch these little jitters and problems and think "wait, the only way that could happen is if... no, that's can't be it..." but that thought you push back, that thought you can't let yourself have because you can't allow yourself to think they could possibly be that stupid. They are that stupid.
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Feb 20, 2018 15:58
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Mr.Tophat posted:Now this is a classy post I'm Vlad you like it 
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Feb 20, 2018 15:59
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Toops posted:This is why I’m actually serious when I say GDPR is a terrible idea. Mess with user data in a material way and ad revenues plummet. If ad revenues fall far enough, gratz government, enjoy your global recession. Yup, and I am seeing this with some of my larger clients. I'm working with one at the moment who will probably lose a million or so users due the this as statistically that many won't re opt in. They also do deals on sponsored articles and all the usual bullshit and advertisers want to know how many people they will reach via mail outs etc, so later this year I expect to start seeing those advertisers drop off as well.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:00
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https://twitter.com/Da_KZNE/status/965905606036123649
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Feb 20, 2018 16:05
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Spatial posted:Didn't Planetary Annihilation turn out to be a big wet fart They patched it into a relatively fun game and then the expansion fixed a few issues too, which you got if you're a backer, so now it's pretty good imo.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:07
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Anyone who watched that Christmas special with the crash and burn of Roberts trying to play his own game and didn't immediately think that a refund is in order will never come to that realization. Ever.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:08
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Uhm, dudes: GDPR is nothing new per se: they just put a price tag on the sanctions. We've all talked about it ages ago and told our clients to get their databases clean. Source: nearly all of out clients are going apeshit right now. At the very end of the two year ongoing transition period. Kudos. Btw: way too late for the party but: Kingdom Come is pretty good.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:09
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Scruffpuff posted:This is my stance, and you're literally the only other person I've seen in the thread who agrees with it. I've seen completion percentages floated around here that run from 15% to 35% and all of them are so far above what's actually done I'm hard-pressed to understand where the number was drawn from. I am chiefly responsible for the 18% displayed on https://starcitizentracker.github.io/majorsystems/ but this an Estimated Total Progress on Major Features only. It doesn't factor in the negative progress on everything else they've been spinning their wheels on. I think the idea stemmed from a desire to measure foundational systems without the noise of all the filler content CIG loves to talk about. It is also very generous on the account of being an estimate. Here is an old picture that also lists a more skeptical model that comes out to 3%:  Scruffpuff posted:You can't just list stretch goals, check off which ones were completed, and extrapolate a percentage from that. Not every goal takes the same amount of work, and many goals have underlying dependencies that might change, rendering earlier work useless, even though a week ago it was marked "complete."  trying to apply a percentage to each feature would be a fool's errand. StarCitizen Tracker attempts to fact-check Chris and Cloud Imperium Games Corporation to see if they adhere to the expectations set concerning the project. It is not an attempt to measure progress.btw secret dev build is good and Star Citizen is good.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:15
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Lladre posted:Anyone who watched that Christmas special with the crash and burn of Roberts trying to play his own game and didn't immediately think that a refund is in order will never come to that realization. Ever. Which video was that?
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Feb 20, 2018 16:31
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Lladre posted:Anyone who watched that Christmas special with the crash and burn of Roberts trying to play his own game and didn't immediately think that a refund is in order will never come to that realization. Ever. The Star Wars Christmas special had less cringe and was more about space. It even had VR.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:33
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Scruffpuff posted:There are so many clues if you play on the PTU, or watch any of the footage, that this game was created, from the ground up, by people who have no idea how to do this, led by a thumb who actually has negative knowledge of how to do it. I've seen poo poo on the PTU happen that I've never seen before - things break in ways I didn't even know they could break. You watch these little jitters and problems and think "wait, the only way that could happen is if... no, that's can't be it..." but that thought you push back, that thought you can't let yourself have because you can't allow yourself to think they could possibly be that stupid.  Concerning 0% progress: TheAgent posted:e3 drunk ramblings are going to be loving amazing if peeps are already talking mad poo poo like this and they ain't even been drinkin 
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Feb 20, 2018 16:34
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Remember when Chris Roberts said that Mesh Servers had already begun testing in March 2017? Then one of the other devs a few weeks later said they hadn't started yet and would after StarNetwork. That seems like one of the more clear-cut lies CR did. And now it's not due until the start of 2019.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:36
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Which video was that? I believe it is the one where "this is bullshit" originated. Pudgy man in black, bad posture in a chair. Using a controller. Hobo Lando in a santa suit and hat.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:39
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Lladre posted:I believe it is the one where "this is bullshit" originated. Happen to have a link to it, by chance?
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Feb 20, 2018 16:40
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Virtual Captain posted:
The thing that pisses me off most about that is how people defend it as Chris "being a perfectionist." First of all, even if you could take that at face value, it's just bad management all around. If Chris were so loving perfect everyone under him would already have effective marching orders and work being redone would be the exception, not the rule. Second, Chris is about the least perfect person I can think of. What does "perfection" mean to an idiot? If Chris is such a perfectionist, why has everything CIG has released suck so bad? I'm not a perfectionist, but I'd have been embarrassed to release anything CIG has released so far. I'd be hiding under a goddamned rock hoping it all just went away. Which means either Chris is not a perfectionist like his defenders claim, or the freak show that is Star Citizen is his idea of perfect. Perfect poo poo.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:40
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Something that recently drove home to me about just how out of touch Chris is with modern games is when he was on stage proudly waving around the SQ 42 script and acting like it was a massive tome of huge proportions: Then this week Kingdom Come without fanfare showed theirs:  It really highlighted the void between what 90's dino dev Chris thinks, compared to modern studios.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:50
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Happen to have a link to it, by chance? you cheeky bugger 
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Feb 20, 2018 16:51
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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Broken ships on fire on the deck of Olisar. I watched O-rings jitter in the dark near the Crusader JPEG. All those moments will be lost in time, like food in Ben. Time to crash.
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Feb 20, 2018 16:51
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Daztek posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7ys31y/clive_johnson_on_the_initial_implementation_of/ I'm really baffled by this. Like how does he think this will work at all. Even if you know nothing about computers should be able to realise all he's made there is a slightly larger instance by throwing more CPU's at it. They could do something similar to this by replicating data across adjacent nodes and adjacent only but that's hard and CIG are not smart men. Aramoro fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 17:11
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Aramoro posted:I'm really baffled by this. Like how does he think this will work at all. Even if you know nothing about computers should be able to realise all he's made there is a slightly larger instance by throwing more CPU's at it. Keep in mind these people are weapons grade imbeciles
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Feb 20, 2018 17:11
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Space court has been quiet for almost 2 weeks. Can't be long now till Ortwin's winning motion to dismiss is granted, right? RIGHT?
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Feb 20, 2018 17:22
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peter gabriel posted:Something that recently drove home to me about just how out of touch Chris is with modern games is when he was on stage proudly waving around the SQ 42 script and acting like it was a massive tome of huge proportions: It's amazing how much fanfare Chris Roberts puts behind such a shitshow performance. It's like some kind of Monty Python sketch, or a 5-year piece of performance theatre. Juxtapose epic music, huge conventions, and cheering crowds alongside poo poo people, a visibly poo poo project, and a constantly crashing tech demo and the  s will roll in.Apparently also money.
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Feb 20, 2018 17:22
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Virtual Captain posted:4:50 - 'no plans to implement multiple character slots in 2018' https://youtu.be/BIJtzjUsf08?t=292 I’m the
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Feb 20, 2018 17:24
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Toops posted:What I find even more sketchy is Google’s location service. They got sued for wardriving the world while running the mapping service. The entire skyhook database is literally built on the geolocation of SSIDs, particularly the ones supplied by 'free wifi'. Of course, that's the internet. The world of mobile devices is a lot more locked down and walled off from those messy regulatory frameworks that the poors need. Toops posted:This is why I’m actually serious when I say GDPR is a terrible idea. I'm with you, but from a different angle; removing any data series from an ongoing collection effort will skew the data. At the point where we agree to remove data on the behest of a badly defined third party, we're creating a mechanism to be used, such as the wondrous and beautiful construction that is the DMCA or RIPA. Before you know it, someone demonstrates the actual loopholes by removing Oprah Winfrey from the internet, and everyone's standing around with their dick in their hands. peter gabriel posted:Yup, and I am seeing this with some of my larger clients. I'm working with one at the moment who will probably lose a million or so users due the this as statistically that many won't re opt in. Ah yes, the subscriber numbers. The second biggest farce in this world after comscore.
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Feb 20, 2018 17:25
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On a somewhat related note: Mueller charges lawyer with false statements in Russia probe The important bit: Reuters posted:Tuesday's court filing does not name the law firm that van der Zwaan worked for, though a 2012 report on former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko that it cited was penned by the prominent international law firm Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP. lol
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Feb 20, 2018 17:30
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Flared Basic Bitch posted:I’m the I think it's more like Multiple character slots is a way for people to dodge buying multiple accounts so they won't do it.
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Feb 20, 2018 17:32
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Lawn dart is what pilots call a plane that lost it's wings
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Feb 20, 2018 17:37
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D_Smart posted:It's coming along slowly but surely. Not to many resources to throw at it is my biggest issue. And that's due to money. Not all of us have $180M of other people's money to play with. I vacillate between loving Dr. D and being sick to death of him, but whatever the case, this right here is some transparent loving game development.
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Feb 20, 2018 17:39
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Brazilianpeanutwar posted:You know how you guy are always joking about Ortwin being a vampire?
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Feb 20, 2018 17:42
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PederP posted:While I don't agree that marketing is essential to keeping the economy healthy, I do agree that it's driving a lot of innovation (that will hopefully end with more benign applications down the road). Your post reminded me of this weird claim by some tech-ad-guru (the name escapes me) that advertisment was the most eco-friendly of all commodities, as it added (perceived) value to consumer products without requiring those products to have higher production costs. That's of course bullshit, as marketing and advertisment most certainly has an energy and resource footprint, but it was a funny claim nevertheless, and not entirely without merit. Philosophically I totally agree with you. But IMO we're rapidly approaching a post-scarcity situation, the way our economy is structured, if people don't believe they need things, they stop spending, and the whole charade (aka western capitalism) collapses. So I think there's a case to be made that the most important product we produce is artificial demand. And this is not a derail, it describes the Star Citizen phenomenon perfectly. People with plenty of money and nothing left to do.
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Feb 20, 2018 17:45
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Scruffpuff posted:This is my stance, and you're literally the only other person I've seen in the thread who agrees with it. I've seen completion percentages floated around here that run from 15% to 35% and all of them are so far above what's actually done I'm hard-pressed to understand where the number was drawn from. Others have made this point, but what they're trying to build has zero relation to what they've sold. Photoshopping brochures for an apartment at the top of a thousand story building, selling the different drawer pulls for the home of your dreams while the project site is a sand pit.
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