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To answer the question directly, no I would not like to hammer merk unless someone can counterclaim. I think its a genius claim for a scum because it forces town to either believe and keep a scum alive... or it draws out the real doc, which then paints a giant ol target on their head.
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Feb 21, 2018 00:22
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I find that spot to be in very annoying because I think it likely something merk is trying to pull off. So... I don't know. I guess if the doc can protect themselves tonight then it would be worth it to counter claim and catch scum in a lie. Otherwise doc is taking a big risk by counterclaiming.
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Feb 21, 2018 00:26
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##unvote
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Feb 21, 2018 00:27
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I think I'll take a look at Lup again, see what that's about.
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Feb 21, 2018 00:28
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LupusAter posted:Nope, calling bullshit. If you successfully targeted TMM it means that we would have had four nightkills. I get that the arsonist and poisoner need setup, but that feels like too big of a swing. Also means that one of those two nightkills got prevented N1, which runs contrary to your claim. LupusAter posted:No, I only noticed the emote when it was pointed out. And I'll admit that I thought that a successful doctoring meant stopping a kill, so all of that train of thought is worthless. I still don't like merk's play this game. This does read a bit weird to me. Merk did type "targeted" vice "doctor" so I'm not sure about how Lup got the conclusion Lup came to, but I think I could see it as a mistake and not necessarily a slip.
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Feb 21, 2018 00:47
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Dick Bastardly posted:This does read a bit weird to me. Merk did type "targeted" vice "doctor" so I'm not sure about how Lup got the conclusion Lup came to, but I think I could see it as a mistake and not necessarily a slip. I see what you're seeing there.
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Feb 21, 2018 01:05
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This is tough.
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Feb 21, 2018 02:18
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Tough.
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Feb 21, 2018 02:22
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Tough as.
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Feb 21, 2018 02:25
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merk posted:Tough. Why did being called an idiot upset you so much?
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Feb 21, 2018 02:46
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Tolly Totes posted:Why did being called an idiot upset you so much? I joined mafia to be a better attorney. That argument style doesn’t work in my field. It’s boring.
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Feb 21, 2018 03:25
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I just don’t get why you’re so put off by somebody being rude or dismissive when you’ve taken a similar tone. What specifically bothers you about that so much that you shut down?
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Feb 21, 2018 03:44
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Tolly Totes posted:I just don’t get why you’re so put off by somebody being rude or dismissive when you’ve taken a similar tone. What specifically bothers you about that so much that you shut down? It’s the lowest form of discussion. I never throw that poo poo out.
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Feb 21, 2018 04:03
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What's the distinction to you though?
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Feb 21, 2018 04:12
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What
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Feb 21, 2018 04:22
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Like what is the difference between things you're ok with and the "lowest form of discussion" Clearly being called an idiot is over that line, but I don't really understand why
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Feb 21, 2018 04:26
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##vote Tolly I was a fool to think I could have been wrong about anything, regardless of meta reasons.
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Feb 21, 2018 04:36
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I don't really believe merks claim right now, but I can see it being true so I don't really want to vote him today. I have two problems with the claim in general. First, while I can possibly understand targeting me with a doctor on N1 since I hammered Ecco, I'm just not sure I can understand targeting me again on N2 even if N1 was blocked. I know merk wasn't posting or reading much during that weekend, but he also had an extra 24 hours to read the game before submitting his action. Why not take some of that time to get a better read? I mean 4 separate people said they thought I was scummy in the page just before the D2 hammer. He also said I hammered MMT, but if he actually looked at that post he would have seen that I just posted the  and couldn't look 2 posts below that to actually look at the vote count.Second, I'm just not sure that he could have targeted me on D2. I am looking back at the end of D2 and I'm thinking that RF used his jail on me. Again, 4 separate people were saying I was being kind of scummy at the end of D2 and then with my final comment in that post I say that I wanted the lurker rules to trigger on RF. So I could see RF using that comment plus the others calling me scummy as justification to target me.Now one thing that does make give me pause is that I also believe that RF could have jailed merk on N1. After all, merk was one of the vote leaders and could have been scum. The only mention RF makes about merk on D1 is about not wanting to vote him on principle. So that could go either way I guess. Of course all of that presumes that there isn't a scum roleblocker and I'm just not sure what to think there. I will probably be making a setup spec post in a little bit. So after saying all that, I personally think that it's best to ##vote Asphyxious today. His post history is complete garbage and then there is this: TMMadman posted:Votecount for Day 1 Remember, when pressed by Moat when the vote was 4-4-4, Asphyxious went straight to Ecco. And then he spent all of D2 refusing to even consider voting for MMT.
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Feb 21, 2018 04:54
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I’m also town so as bad as that makes me look, it’s a bad case. You look dodgy as but don’t try to shove it on to me.
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Feb 21, 2018 05:04
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I don't have a specific problem with Merk's actual claim, but something about his reaction to TMM's idiot comment doesn't sit right with me.
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Feb 21, 2018 06:04
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Asphyxious posted:I’m also town so as bad as that makes me look, it’s a bad case. You look dodgy as but don’t try to shove it on to me. You have seemed notably absent this game, if I'm being honest
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Feb 21, 2018 06:10
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Ok so Merk made a big deal about being called an idiot, and like I want to make it clear that it sucks to be called names obviously, but his reaction is just so over the top its weird to me. Being called an idiot on the internet really shouldn't be that much of a wrench in your gears, but even if it is, I don't think this reaction makes sense. To start with, the situation it's said is important: merk posted:##vote TMM merk posted:This is real bad too. I would vote TMM at any time. TMMadman posted:Don't be a loving idiot. I claimed because I know my role and alignment and it's in towns best interests to not vote out town, especially one who is very likely to draw a kill. I don't really know where Merk is coming from with the first bit specifically if it's not pure conjecture, but I think even in the world where he has the best intentions Merk would have to know this is a leading and presumptive line of questioning and TMM is basically just telling him to back down. He does it while swearing and saying it's dumb but it doesn't really strike me personally as all that different than other things in the thread so far. Like I mean, TMM is basically doing a more aggressive version of this comment from earlier: LupusAter posted:I explained my reasoning. Sorry I didn't acknowledge your leading question while doing it. Lupus is absolutely being catty here, it's a more dignified type of thing you could say in front of your extended family, but I don't see it as all that fundamentally different.
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Feb 21, 2018 06:35
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Xad posted:You have seemed notably absent this game, if I'm being honest I was really, really busy in FF7 mafia but this has my attention now.
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Feb 21, 2018 06:38
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Here's another thing I don't get: Merk says he's checked out, says he won't read the thread and basically just throws a bit of tantrum. Despite not being engaged in the thread anymore, Merk still reads and responds to every post while explaining his reasoning. More than 1/3 of his in game posts have been after he was "checked out" His tone is notably different obviously, but I don't really understand it, because he's not just being testy with TMM, he's bitter at everything and everybody. He does these weird self cases, talks about asking for a replacement, mocks me at one point, all this weird stuff, but he's still obviously playing. He makes a claim, argues for it, gives his reads and succeeds in swaying the vote away from him. I can believe that he doesn't like this style of posting, but I just don't think his reasoning of him finding it "boring" because it doesn't gel with legal discourse is a good explanation for his pearl clutching and moping about.
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Feb 21, 2018 06:43
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votefinder posted:Votecount for Day 1 Moatillata posted:At this point I think the best flip is mmt and a no lynch is an extremely bad outcome Moatillata posted:We have three people @ -5. We need to consolidate. I want opop DB and tmm to pick one before we decide if we can even swing someone else TMMadman posted:Votecount for Day 1 votefinder posted:Votecount for Day 1 I think we really need to take a look at this D1 vote. As I said earlier, there is almost certainly scum in that group of Tobbs/Asphyxious/Lupus and I truly believe at least one of them is scum, but if that's true it also likely means that merk is scum as well. It's just really hard to see D1 going down any other way right now. I suppose it's possible that scum is MMT and then something like Asphyxious/DB/Tobbs or something, but if that's the case then why Ecco over merk? Is it just because Ecco was all over MMT?
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Feb 21, 2018 06:50
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TMMadman posted:I think the burning part is just flavor for a janitored kill and not actually from an arsonist. Can you explain how a janitored kill works?
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Feb 21, 2018 06:54
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And going back through those, I really don't think Lupus is scum. He votes MMT shortly after that first vote count post and the only thing that has changed from that post when his makes his vote is that Tobbs unvoted MMT, Tolly voted merk and merk moved his vote to RF. So Lupus votes MMT at time when the votes were 3 - MMT, 2 - Moat, 1 - Ecco/merk/tolly/RF/Tobbs. I mean I suppose that could be scum busing since there were still like 12 hours left in the day, but it certainly doesn't feel like it.
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Feb 21, 2018 06:58
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Tolly Totes posted:Can you explain how a janitored kill works? A janitored kill just means that we don't see the flip at all. We don't get to see the persons alignment or role and also flavor name in this case. However, it's a kill that happens that night and doesn't have a delay on it like a poisoner or arsonist. I mean it's possible that it was an actual arson kill. If you consider that in a typical 16 player game with 3 scum/1 SK there would be 2 kills per night (1 scum kill/1 SK) and technically a poison and an arson kill that fired both off on the same day would keep the same kill ratio, but it would mean that the scum team is something like ninja(poisoner), arsonist, and maybe godfather.
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Feb 21, 2018 07:05
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TMMadman posted:A janitored kill just means that we don't see the flip at all. We don't get to see the persons alignment or role and also flavor name in this case. However, it's a kill that happens that night and doesn't have a delay on it like a poisoner or arsonist. Is the flip a secret to the mafia too or do they know it?
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Feb 21, 2018 07:12
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Tolly Totes posted:Is the flip a secret to the mafia too or do they know it? That kind of depends on the moderator. It also kind of depends on whether the janitor kill is like a 1 shot or the normal NK. Like I believe that 1 shot janitor kills typically don't get told anything about that kill, but if the janitor kill is part of the normal NK then scum are usually told something. However, I've played in a game as scum where the NK was janitored and we didn't get to know the flip. It was frustrating as hell.
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Feb 21, 2018 07:25
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TMMadman posted:And going back through those, I really don't think Lupus is scum. He votes MMT shortly after that first vote count post and the only thing that has changed from that post when his makes his vote is that Tobbs unvoted MMT, Tolly voted merk and merk moved his vote to RF. This is a late mafia edit but merk actually moved his vote to Lupus, it was Tobbs who voted RF.
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Feb 21, 2018 07:31
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merk posted:I think Lupus is town. That's the only other read I have. When and why did you decide that Lupus was town?
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Feb 21, 2018 07:37
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So it’s possible that the mafia team knows the flip for got some chores tonight right? I checked the wiki and it says a similar thing. We’ve had two role claims today, which has messed me up a bit because it’s from the people who I thought came out of the first two days looking the worst. I think it’s possible that got some chores tonight was the doctor or tracker and one of these is a false claim. In either case it would be pretty safe lie to tell. If TMM knew chores was the tracker, he knew nobody could be tracking him so he could make up visiting whoever. On the flipside, if TMM really is the tracker, merk is also free to claim visiting whoever because by the time he claimed TMM had already revealed he hadn’t tracked merk. The only thing in either claim that couldn’t already be cleared is TMM saying monathin went nowhere, there is some risk to that. If monathin had a power role that could have blown up the claim.
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Feb 21, 2018 14:30
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I just re-read tmm and noticed he said he failed to track me N2, which is not how I read it originally. Originally I read that as "saw me go nowhere" which led me to believe tmm's claim. Now I can see where totes is coming from as far as the scum team deploying a fake claim scheme. I'm also getting gut feels that tmm and merk are possibly scumbros that are faking this personal offense stuff and probably do have knowledge of chores' role and are using that to their advantage with the fake claims. Here is tmm trying to take pressure off of merk and MMT TMMadman posted:I don't think that's possible and I don't think I'd be down for it. here is the bus with shade being put on ecco. TMMadman posted:I think I'd probably vote Ecco > merk > MMT at this point. I would like to vote either, but I don't know if testing the claims is worth the risk. If we decide to spare either of them the lunch on principle of remaining un-countered. Then whom is the third scummiest alternative?
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Feb 21, 2018 15:11
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Dick Bastardly posted:I would like to vote either, but I don't know if testing the claims is worth the risk. If we decide to spare either of them the lunch on principle of remaining un-countered. Then whom is the third scummiest alternative? You. IMO, the three scummiest people in the thread are DB, Asphyxious and merk. With Tobbs as a close 4th.
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Feb 21, 2018 15:36
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Ok, so what's the case on me?
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Feb 21, 2018 15:41
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Power role != town Who cares about the claims? They both make sense in the setup as we know it for either town or scum.
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Feb 21, 2018 15:45
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Also, analyzing claims is a good way for scum to make it look like they’re scum hunting when they really aren’t.
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Feb 21, 2018 15:46
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Totes whole line of questioning here looks fake. It isnt generating content that funds scum.
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Feb 21, 2018 15:47
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Dick Bastardly posted:To answer the question directly, no I would not like to hammer merk unless someone can counterclaim. I think its a genius claim for a scum because it forces town to either believe and keep a scum alive... or it draws out the real doc, which then paints a giant ol target on their head. We have a flipped town Jailer. Town doesn’t need a Doctor. Setup could be fine with just a Town Jailer as a protection role. This is questionable logic that may be faked too. It’s like you already know I’m town.
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Feb 21, 2018 15:48
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