Netflix Marvel: "You are the dumbest Iron Fist yet."

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Netflix Marvel: "You are the dumbest Iron Fist yet."

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RareAcumen: Dec 28, 2012

Cythereal posted:

Casting news for Punisher Season 2:

Here's hoping they really show that this guy's off his rocker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7v5x-UqMkc

# ? Feb 27, 2018 03:16

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 23:45

Lester Shy: May 1, 2002; Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!

Polygon: Jessica Jones season 2 pre-review: sophomore slump

# ? Feb 27, 2018 06:12

Open Source Idiom: Jan 4, 2013

Lester Shy posted:

Polygon: Jessica Jones season 2 pre-review: sophomore slump

quote:

�With great power,� intones one character, in a line that I hope was at least a little tongue-in-cheek, �comes great mental illness.�

Author has lovely critical skills, so I'm not inclined to trust their judgement. Particularly as they seem unable to trust their own.

# ? Feb 27, 2018 12:36

howe_sam: Mar 7, 2013; Creepy little garbage eaters

https://twitter.com/sepinwall/status/968396570411577344

Of course Sepinwall has grown to hate the highly serialized Netflix model so grains of salt.

# ? Feb 27, 2018 13:24

CAPT. Rainbowbeard: Apr 5, 2012; My incredible goodposting transcends time and space but still it cannot transform the xbone into a good console.; Lipstick Apathy

There's a trend in these early reviews.

# ? Feb 27, 2018 14:04

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

Yeah, all two of them. Give it some time, at least.

# ? Feb 27, 2018 14:06

thebardyspoon: Jun 30, 2005

I don't really find it hard to believe that 5 episodes of a Netflix marvel series are kinda dull at this point. It's a bit of a surprise that it's apparently the opening 5 though, usually they get dull some time in so maybe the good ones will be the second half? That'd be a novelty.

Punisher is the only post Jessica Jones Season 1 one that managed to stay consistently good the whole way through imo. Daredevil S2 and Luke Cage had a pretty poo poo last half or third, Iron Fist and Defenders were pretty weak the whole way with a few brief moments of good stuff.

# ? Feb 27, 2018 14:09

Bust Rodd: Oct 21, 2008; by VideoGames

I have a feeling that everything post-Punisher is gonna have a hard time making the same impact, and JJS1 impacted a lot of people so it�s also standing on the shoulders of giants.

# ? Feb 27, 2018 15:31

LesterGroans: Jun 9, 2009; It's funny...

You were so scary at night.

There's definitely a big vacuum left by the absence of Kilgrave and Luke Cage that a bigger focus on Jeri, Malcolm and Trish can't really fill. It just generally feels a little less urgent and impactful.

It has one of the funnier updates of a "classic" superhero I've seen in the MCU. Whizzer.

# ? Feb 27, 2018 15:55

CAPT. Rainbowbeard: Apr 5, 2012; My incredible goodposting transcends time and space but still it cannot transform the xbone into a good console.; Lipstick Apathy

Arist posted:

Yeah, all two of them. Give it some time, at least.

I was talking about the trend of these Marvel pre-reviews in general, and I agree, that's exactly what they need to do.

:colbert:

\/\/\/ Yes, that's true, now I'm gonna just sit back and watch how this plays out like it seems like it often does.

CAPT. Rainbowbeard fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Feb 27, 2018

# ? Feb 27, 2018 16:02

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

It's not like they're setting an arbitrary line, they're reviewing what Marvel/Netflix sent them to review.

# ? Feb 27, 2018 16:04

WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

dont even fink about it posted:

Knowing how incestuous Hollywood is, there's a non-zero chance that Red Sparrow is just a re-purposed Black Widow script.

Unless it's a production from one of the Disney branches, this is really unlikely.

# ? Feb 27, 2018 19:44

Narcissus1916: Apr 29, 2013

Alan Sepinwall's criticisms are roughly mine though. The pacing issues have only gotten worse, and The Defenders was a rambling mess of a series.

# ? Feb 28, 2018 05:55

Name Change: Oct 9, 2005

thebardyspoon posted:

I don't really find it hard to believe that 5 episodes of a Netflix marvel series are kinda dull at this point. It's a bit of a surprise that it's apparently the opening 5 though, usually they get dull some time in so maybe the good ones will be the second half? That'd be a novelty.

Punisher is the only post Jessica Jones Season 1 one that managed to stay consistently good the whole way through imo. Daredevil S2 and Luke Cage had a pretty poo poo last half or third, Iron Fist and Defenders were pretty weak the whole way with a few brief moments of good stuff.

I mean you watched the first five episodes of Punisher, right?

This thing where a show has to build up to a crescendo and be really repetitive instead of actually being good throughout is not good storytelling, it's turning five episode seasons into fifteen, the Walking Dead effect.

Now I know comparing anything watchable to the Walking Dead is fightin' words, but for example I have zero desire to ever watch Punisher through again, since for example it has nothing as good action-wise as anything in DD2. Maybe someone should make a Frank's dead wife supercut. I would also like a diagram of the seventeen government and organized crime entities that put out a hit on his family.

# ? Feb 28, 2018 07:09

Javid: Oct 21, 2004

I bet somebody could make a good 2-2.5 hour movie out of one of these seasons.

# ? Feb 28, 2018 08:53

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

Was looking at that leaked photo of Shazam and it reminded me of Samaritan, which got me thinking that Astro City would be a pretty cool thing for the Netflix treatment. Wonder if its ever been pitched?

# ? Feb 28, 2018 13:36

Bust Rodd: Oct 21, 2008; by VideoGames

dont even fink about it posted:

I have zero desire to ever watch Punisher through again, since for example it has nothing as good action-wise as anything in DD2. Maybe someone should make a Frank's dead wife supercut. I would also like a diagram of the seventeen government and organized crime entities that put out a hit on his family.

Hard disagree here, DD S2 has one good fight scene and then a bunch of extremely generic Kung-Fu, the only bad fight scene in Punisher is when he pushes on the Afghanis in his war flashback. Frank�s signature style of hard-brawling and tight CQC is way more entertaining than a bunch of stupid flips that have no impact and go nowhere because there are so many ninjas.

Also he was a marine who did Bl-Ops for the CIA, then he quit, so the CIA has his family murdered and put him in a coma and he woke up thinking it was a mob hit because that�s what they wanted him to think. It�s actually not that complicated.

By comparison: �what is the plot of Daredevil S2?�

# ? Feb 28, 2018 13:54

Billzasilver: Nov 8, 2016; I lift my drink and sing a song

for who knows if life is short or long?

Man's life is like the morning dew

past days many, future days few

The great paradox of Daredevil and Defenders is that Stick is always great and the Hand are always terrible. But can we have one without the other?

# ? Feb 28, 2018 14:03

Open Source Idiom: Jan 4, 2013

Bust Rodd posted:

Also he was a marine who did Bl-Ops for the CIA, then he quit, so the CIA has his family murdered and put him in a coma and he woke up thinking it was a mob hit because that�s what they wanted him to think. It�s actually not that complicated.

By comparison: �what is the plot of Daredevil S2?�

Your Punisher description cuts out a lot -- it's basically all backstory -- but if you want to simplify DS2 similarly,

"Daredevil goes up against two rival figures that test the limits of his ethical code. He is eventually caught up in a conspiracy involving one of those rivals, and though he defeats it he is ultimately isolated from everyone in his life."

# ? Feb 28, 2018 14:03

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

Javid posted:

I bet somebody could make a good 2-2.5 hour movie out of one of these seasons.

No.

# ? Feb 28, 2018 14:07

Fartbox: Apr 27, 2017; What's happening? Dri fu an only two? what is this?
Is this an avatar? I don't know rm dunk

I thought Punisher was a bit meandering

Yes I like that they're delving a bit deeper but he is still a comic book action-man and there wasn't enough decent action in the show for me tbh. It wasn't good enough to be just about the psyche of a damaged man

# ? Feb 28, 2018 14:13

Bust Rodd: Oct 21, 2008; by VideoGames

Open Source Idiom posted:

Your Punisher description cuts out a lot -- it's basically all backstory -- but if you want to simplify DS2 similarly,

"Daredevil goes up against two rival figures that test the limits of his ethical code. He is eventually caught up in a conspiracy involving one of those rivals, and though he defeats it he is ultimately isolated from everyone in his life."

Your description completely ignores all the hand stuff, what stuff did I omit from Punisher?

There aren�t any other organizations from the govt, it�s a CIA op. The PMC that Bobby runs all-ex marines. All the gangs he killed were a misfire, though no one is losing sleep over it, and the terrorist b-plot is an independent agent.

I�m just saying the plot of the Punisher is, to me, substantially less convoluted and complicated than Daredevil�s.

# ? Feb 28, 2018 14:13

Party Plane Jones: Jul 1, 2007; by Reene; Fun Shoe

Fartbox posted:

I thought Punisher was a bit meandering

Yes I like that they're delving a bit deeper but he is still a comic book action-man and there wasn't enough decent action in the show for me tbh. It wasn't good enough to be just about the psyche of a damaged man

The problem for me with Punisher is alternately that he was boring to watch at times because it fell into the same trap that Luke Cage did: if you have a character that is bulletproof (or in Punisher's case, is known for wearing tons of body armor) then saddling them with 2 episodes of recovery cause You Got Shot is just lazy writing. Punisher goes out of its way to do this by having him set his body armor on fire in the intro episode and he never gets it replaced.

The guy has to be at least 10% lead fragments by the end of the first season.

# ? Feb 28, 2018 14:35

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

Haha yeah those lazy assholes, coming up with 2 episodes of plot.

# ? Feb 28, 2018 14:37

RareAcumen: Dec 28, 2012

Party Plane Jones posted:

The problem for me with Punisher is alternately that he was boring to watch at times because it fell into the same trap that Luke Cage did: if you have a character that is bulletproof (or in Punisher's case, is known for wearing tons of body armor) then saddling them with 2 episodes of recovery cause You Got Shot is just lazy writing. Punisher goes out of its way to do this by having him set his body armor on fire in the intro episode and he never gets it replaced.

He's in body armor like, most of the time though! In the intro while he's hunting down the cartel- I'm assuming that's who those guys were- tracking Morty Bennet down so they can hack his phone, when he goes after Lewis, when Billy and Rawlins come to the hideout, and the final battle at the end. The only times he doesn't have anything is when he's getting resources or caught off guard. So Carson Wolf, Turk, and those other guys that he showed up with a fake grenade and finding Gunner Henderson are the only times he doesn't have a bulletproof vest on him.

# ? Feb 28, 2018 16:53

Laterite: Mar 14, 2007; It's Gutfest '89; Grimey Drawer

I wanted to like Punisher a lot more than I actually did. Felt like it kind of drifted around.

All the action was great but wasn't enough to go around. Frank and Micro made a good team, both of their backstories were compelling. The PTSD & veteran therapy group stuff was interesting and I wish they had spent more time on that.

Any of the larger agency vs agency conspiracy stuff fell like a lead weight though. I found myself drifting off and wondering why I was supposed to care. It was obvious to me that Billy was the bad guy, probably because he was pretty much the same character on Westworld. Plus I think he's a boring actor.

# ? Feb 28, 2018 17:23

Invalid Validation: Jan 13, 2008

Yea but he gets his pretty face cheese grated on a mirror. So satisfying.

# ? Mar 1, 2018 19:06

docbeard: Jul 19, 2011

Bust Rodd posted:

By comparison: �what is the plot of Daredevil S2?�

"Matt Murdock is extremely bad at work-life balance."

# ? Mar 1, 2018 20:35

Name Change: Oct 9, 2005

Bust Rodd posted:

Hard disagree here, DD S2 has one good fight scene and then a bunch of extremely generic Kung-Fu, the only bad fight scene in Punisher is when he pushes on the Afghanis in his war flashback. Frank’s signature style of hard-brawling and tight CQC is way more entertaining than a bunch of stupid flips that have no impact and go nowhere because there are so many ninjas.

Also he was a marine who did Bl-Ops for the CIA, then he quit, so the CIA has his family murdered and put him in a coma and he woke up thinking it was a mob hit because that’s what they wanted him to think. It’s actually not that complicated.

By comparison: “what is the plot of Daredevil S2?”

Groups and people that are involved in Frank's hit:

- The CIA
- Homeland Security
- An elite special forces task group
- His best friend
- The Not-Hell's Angels
- The Irish Mob
- The Mexican Mob
- The District Attorney

It's more of a nitpick really, I just find how convoluted it got to be hilarious.

# ? Mar 2, 2018 02:21

HIJK: Nov 25, 2012; in the room where you sleep

dont even fink about it posted:

Groups and people that are involved in Frank's hit:

- The CIA
- Homeland Security
- An elite special forces task group
- His best friend
- The Not-Hell's Angels
- The Irish Mob
- The Mexican Mob
- The District Attorney

It's more of a nitpick really, I just find how convoluted it got to be hilarious.

syndrome strikes again. everything has to be a goddamn conspiracy

# ? Mar 2, 2018 02:22

STAC Goat: Mar 12, 2008; Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

I definitely think the Punisher conspiracy probably got a little unnecessarily deep. I mean, I was fine with it and it didn't take away for me, but I'd struggle to quickly sum it up exactly what or who Frank was opposing.

# ? Mar 2, 2018 02:28

Slashrat: Jun 6, 2011; YOSPOS

So it goes something like this, I think:

CIA agent Rawlins tasks Frank's marine unit to do some very shady black ops poo poo, which Frank is fine with since he thinks it is all to win the war on terror.
Rawlins and Frank's colonel secretly use the program to smuggle heroin back to the states. Frank's best pal Billy is in on it.
One of Frank's other buddies discover this and secretly get a video into the hands of Micro, who has to vanish as a result. The video shows the execution of a friend of agent Madani, which brings Homeland Sercurity onto it all, but Rawlins has connections in DHS stonewall Madani's efforts.
Rawlins and the Colonel believe Frank is the one who sent the video, so Rawlins manipulate the DA into staging a sting on some mobsters in a NY park, and has Billy make sure Frank and his family are there, then makes sure that it goes horribly wrong to get Frank killed.
Frank's family end up killed instead, and Frank only ends up in a coma. The DA hush things up because she thinks she messed it up somehow.
Everyone eventually returns home to the states. Frank's colonel turns many members of the unit into a drug-dealing mob. Billy starts a PMC and Rawlins get promoted within the CIA.
Frank eventually wakes up, and thinks the mobsters alone are to blame for his family's death initially, so he goes to kill them all indiscriminately.
Eventually finds out about the DA's involvement too, but before he can act on that, the Colonel's men assassinate her and pin the blame on Frank to put more heat on him and possibly tie up the loose end.
Frank eventually finds out members of his old unit are involved in the drug-trade too and traces it back to the colonel. They all die before Frank finds anything out about Billy or Rawlins however.
Frank continues to hunt down and kill everyone connected to the drug-trade that he can find, and then disappears himself once done.
Micro eventually finds him and Frank discovers that there are still loose ends in his crusade of vengeance, so he sets out to bring down Rawlins, Billy and anyone else still remaining.

# ? Mar 2, 2018 11:19

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

Pretty much, you just left out the involvement of the Cartel and bikers at the Central Park shootout/setup which is why Frank is going after them to start Daredevil.

# ? Mar 2, 2018 14:41

Slashrat: Jun 6, 2011; YOSPOS

Those got summarized into "some mobsters" since that is pretty much the extent of their role in it.

# ? Mar 2, 2018 16:20

Saint Freak: Apr 16, 2007; Regretting is an insult to oneself; Buglord

The carousel owner was in on it, arranging to have it shot up to collect insurance money.

# ? Mar 2, 2018 16:29

Soothing Vapors: Mar 26, 2006; Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

in season 2, we find out Micro's kids masterminded the whole operation

# ? Mar 2, 2018 19:12

Some Pinko Commie: Jun 9, 2009; CNC! Easy as 1️⃣2️⃣3️⃣!

Soothing Vapors posted:

in season 2, we find out Micro's kids masterminded the whole operation

I could totally believe that in the case of the daughter, the only character smart enough to run the gently caress away when poo poo went down in the house.

# ? Mar 2, 2018 19:31

Saint Freak: Apr 16, 2007; Regretting is an insult to oneself; Buglord

https://twitter.com/Garcian_Smith/status/970692910982328320

https://twitter.com/Garcian_Smith/status/970693722617909248

https://twitter.com/Garcian_Smith/status/970694624464527360

https://twitter.com/Garcian_Smith/status/970695021182767106

# ? Mar 5, 2018 20:53

Proteus Jones: Feb 28, 2013

They're determined every season will be 13 episodes, huh?

Here's to dragging poo poo out. Again.

# ? Mar 5, 2018 23:12

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 23:45

esperterra: Mar 24, 2010; SHINee's back

Proteus Jones posted:

They're determined every season will be 13 episodes, huh?

Here's to dragging poo poo out. Again.

I think it was a contractual thing for the first few series, but drat I wish they'd retooled stuff to allow the shows to be as many episodes as they need to get the point across.

# ? Mar 5, 2018 23:18

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Netflix Marvel: "You are the dumbest Iron Fist yet."

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