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Neurolimal posted:Yeah but, when you're asked to make a choice between slavery and euthanizing an entire race.... Is it really euthanasia if future series of synths are simply never instantiated? The Railroad is, if taken at face value, probably just happy that no others will be born into slavery, not really contemplating what a free synth culture would actually look like (and given that many of them get wiped before they go out of the Commonwealth to live human lives, they didn't really understand that such a question existed). Come to think of it, synths as a people were always dependent on the Institute for their continued propagation. Also, third-generation (actual internally human-like) synths are fairly recent, with not a lot of evidence on their lifespan either way. And now we have Highlanders. That ought to be fun. Neurosis posted:a preview of the moral choice before us when lab-grown chicken eggs and cow milk are indistinguishable from the real thing and cheaper This is not the comparison you want to make.
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Mar 6, 2018 13:08
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Neurolimal posted:Yeah but, when you're asked to make a choice between slavery and euthanizing an entire race.... Do Synths really count as a separate race from humans? Like, isn't the whole point that the Railroad views them as people, just people who happen to be made of plastic or whatever synths are made out of?
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Mar 6, 2018 13:31
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MrQwerty posted:the direction bethesda took the BoS in their fallout games is indescribably bad Maybe in fallout 3 (minus the outcasts who are OG BOS) but Fallout 4 has been pretty true to form with the level of assholes the BOS were in the earlier games. If I recall your first interaction with them is basically them sending you to die for giggles in the glow.
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Mar 6, 2018 14:16
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Katt posted:What was the Railroads goal anyway? Wiping out the institute means no more synths or did they want to take over the synth factory? The Railroad really should have been a minor faction, supported by something bigger, which sadly there isn't in the Commonwealth. It could have been something dynamic I guess, attached to the Minutemen as you rebuild them, growing in strength as a shadowy appendage to the very public Minutemen. That would have made a lot more sense really.
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Mar 6, 2018 14:19
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Do Synths really count as a separate race from humans? I mean, it's possible to genocide races of humanity without genociding the entirety of humanity, so I'd argue that this is divorced from the question of human-or-newman discussion.
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Mar 6, 2018 14:22
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MrQwerty posted:the direction bethesda took the BoS in their fallout games is indescribably bad Question - should the Brotherhood exist at all at this point? I haven't played 1 or 2, but I understand that they barely exist in 2 and the ending narrative for NV has their Nevada group pretty much sucking rear end, no matter who controls the Strip or the Dam. At this point, their only appearance in a Fallout game should be a comically incorrect museum exhibit. But, then again, we shouldn't really be seeing buildings made of corrugated metal and wooden pallets and yet here we are.
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Mar 6, 2018 15:54
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The excuse they made up to get them into 3 - that back in the days before the Brotherhood-NCR war ruined the original Brotherhood, an expedition was sent east to look for the Midwestern chapter and look for high-tech weapons in the pentagon - is totally workable. But yeah, separated offshoots like the the east coast brotherhood are the only powerful brotherhood left, the original west coast chapter has been reduced to gently caress-all.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Mar 6, 2018 |
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Mar 6, 2018 16:01
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The west coast brotherhood still has the internal affairs Circle of Steel faction.
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Mar 6, 2018 20:33
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I will never be able to trust these little bastards. https://i.imgur.com/OZhEAUJ.mp4
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Mar 6, 2018 20:45
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Katt posted:I will never be able to trust these little bastards. Is that a mod where you get a predictor arc with your gun out? Usually I put the gun away and the arc is over my right shoulder.
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Mar 6, 2018 21:14
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Glazius posted:Is that a mod where you get a predictor arc with your gun out? Usually I put the gun away and the arc is over my right shoulder. No it's just how it always worked for me. I switched to the pistol because the SMG blocks the view.
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Mar 6, 2018 21:25
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Neurolimal posted:I mean, it's possible to genocide races of humanity without genociding the entirety of humanity, so I'd argue that this is divorced from the question of human-or-newman discussion. But synths don't have a culture, language, or society separate from humanity. Most of them don't even know they're not just regular humans. Blowing up the institute isn't treated like genociding a subculture, it's presented as preventing human beings from being created as slaves.
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Mar 6, 2018 21:44
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The BoS have always been the most overrated part of the series, because a bunch of people just see them as cool dudes in power armor and ignore all the writing behind them. I liked that in New Vegas they were totally miserable failures. Space Cadet Omoly posted:But synths don't have a culture, language, or society separate from humanity. Most of them don't even know they're not just regular humans. Blowing up the institute isn't treated like genociding a subculture, it's presented as preventing human beings from being created as slaves. Yeah I never got the impression that the Railroad wanted to make more synths, or that synths themselves cared about creating more. Their viewpoint seemed to be that synths should just be treated like humans, not that they need to make more of them. I'm pretty sure they have the (reasonable) viewpoint that creating highly intelligent AIs to be used as slaves was hosed up and never should happen, but the existing synths should be treated as humans. Granted I really don't get how this viewpoint coincides with the weird AI of robots like handymen and such, who have varying degrees of intelligence and independence.
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Mar 6, 2018 21:58
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Internet Kraken posted:Yeah I never got the impression that the Railroad wanted to make more synths, or that synths themselves cared about creating more. Their viewpoint seemed to be that synths should just be treated like humans, not that they need to make more of them. I'm pretty sure they have the (reasonable) viewpoint that creating highly intelligent AIs to be used as slaves was hosed up and never should happen, but the existing synths should be treated as humans. Yes, exactly. Although, a bunch of robots/synths getting organized and deciding they DO want a society/culture separate from humanity (maybe even their own city) could be a really intresting thing to do in Fallout 5. The more self aware Mr. Handys/Gutsys and Miss Nannys could team up with synths who don't want to hide the fact they're synths and form a community and be their own little faction.
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Mar 6, 2018 22:23
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Playing through automatron's quest again for robat parts, I am struck by the idea that it actually would have worked WAY better as a primary conflict than the whole "My baby!"/Snatchers thing that the institute does. Just completely rehash The Master's plot, except with a Robotopia at the end instead of the Unity.
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Mar 6, 2018 22:30
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Personally I would have liked it more if the synth infiltrators were more like terminators instead of 100% indistinguishable for humans except during autopsy. Like random settlers/raiders/scavengers in a fight reveal robotic skeleton parts as they get more damaged and have the stats health/damage/armour of a sentry bot as opposed to their raider comrades.
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Mar 7, 2018 10:39
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Katt posted:No it's just how it always worked for me. I switched to the pistol because the SMG blocks the view. ...yeah, mea culpa. It's apparently how it always worked for me too? Or else they patched it? I guess all this time I've just... imagined myself hucking grenades like I saw everybody else doing it. The predictor arc has been good for me on getting regular ol' grenades through windows and over barricades and such, and helping judge the impact of molotovs, and in one rare case helping me line up a grenade airburst on some raider snipers ten stories up that I had no clue how to reach. But I do remember it being a bit face-full-of-fire misjudgey about how an oblong grenade would spin, like the molotov or - is that a nuka grenade you're lobbing out there? And even with that point of impact I can't do grenade bank shots to save my life.
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Mar 8, 2018 15:28
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Glazius posted:...yeah, mea culpa. It's apparently how it always worked for me too? Or else they patched it? I guess all this time I've just... imagined myself hucking grenades like I saw everybody else doing it. Before the arc I could throw them pretty well. Then I got used to the arc and on new characters I need the arc to aim. In the clip it's a nuka grenade and the arc it flies in make no sense. If it struck the door or guard rail it might have made sense. Instead it just flew off to the right. The arc assumes that what you throw is the size of a golf ball and so molotovs are liable to scrape edges and explode. Another problem is that molotovs have a very wide "box" and travel slowly and so are liable to get hit by enemy bullets mid air and explode in your face. This is extra problematic on low level characters where this can mean instant death. I believe molotovs can even be detonated mid air by the flames of previous molotovs.
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Mar 8, 2018 17:00
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Arcsquad12 posted:An isometric Fallout co developed by Obsidian and InExile except that the combat system is like XCom. InExile still owes me a Bard's Tale, and is working on Wasteland 3 just now.
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Mar 9, 2018 09:43
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Katt posted:Personally I would have liked it more if the synth infiltrators were more like terminators instead of 100% indistinguishable for humans except during autopsy. A traveler to your settlement suddenly whips out a Gatling laser and starts going to town on everyone as soon as they get through the gates. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41kzMU7vbbY
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Mar 9, 2018 19:57
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Don't mind me, I'll just be over here grinding my teeth about how Blade Runner synths and Terminators are 80s scifi that would be fine in Wasteland, but are totally out of place in Fallout.
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Mar 9, 2018 20:21
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Fintilgin posted:Don't mind me, I'll just be over here grinding my teeth about how Blade Runner synths and Terminators are 80s scifi that would be fine in Wasteland, but are totally out of place in Fallout. F1 makes reference to events from WL1 ~shared post-apocalyptic universes~
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Mar 9, 2018 21:46
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Didn't the apocalypse that led to Wasteland take place in the '80s? Seems like it would be much more thematically correct. But the synths in 4 didn't bother me. Pulp fiction at the time would've been centered more around aliens from Mars and evil robots that looked like they were actual robots but people who were robots and didn't know it was probably a thing, too.
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Mar 9, 2018 22:43
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There's a boxing sidequest in Fallout 2 that culminates in a Mike Tyson joke, torn ear and all. I think most peoples' problem wrt synths comes from the Institute having no reason to snatcher surface dwellers constantly, especially if they really think that the commonwealth will evebtually die out. It also leaves an unexplored wrinkle in the whole Synth Slavery theme when every non-courser synth has directly killed the original person with their own hands. Space Cadet Omoly posted:But synths don't have a culture, language, or society separate from humanity. Most of them don't even know they're not just regular humans. Blowing up the institute isn't treated like genociding a subculture, it's presented as preventing human beings from being created as slaves. Who's to say such a culture wont develop in the future? We're talking about walking computers capable of hard commands, trading data (and by extension memories), mechanical repairs (as you see in the institute when they're working on a gen 3 synth), and likely are capable of cloning themselves due to their mental accessibility; there's already a companion you turn from robot to synth, there's nothing stating that the reverse cant happen. If we take the whole abolitionist theme to its natural conclusion, there will be ostracizement from humab society, and there's far more than just color to differentiate synths, let alone influence a developed culture. The only proof we have that this couldnt/wont happen is the fact that synths act like humans, when directly ordered to imitate humans.
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Mar 10, 2018 02:34
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Hell, if you want an example of what synths not pretending to be human are like, just listen to Danse! 
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Mar 10, 2018 03:07
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Neurolimal posted:Who's to say such a culture wont develop in the future? We're talking about walking computers capable of hard commands, trading data (and by extension memories), mechanical repairs (as you see in the institute when they're working on a gen 3 synth), and likely are capable of cloning themselves due to their mental accessibility; there's already a companion you turn from robot to synth, there's nothing stating that the reverse cant happen. Like I said, I really HOPE that's the direction the series takes the synths because that poo poo is fascinating. But, right now, synths aren't viewed or treated that way in game. They're either seen as non-people by the institute or humans with what amounts to a weird medical condition by the Railroad. The idea that Synths might want to have a culture and identity separate from humanity (sort of like the one ghouls have) is never even brought up, which is a shame because there's a lot of interesting stuff to explore there.
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Mar 10, 2018 04:47
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Like I said, I really HOPE that's the direction the series takes the synths because that poo poo is fascinating.  Even the mindwiped ones are eventually going to figure out that they aren't baselines when they and ghouls are the only people they remember from their prime that are still around and oh my doesn't the doctor have some questions whenever they show up.
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Mar 10, 2018 04:50
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Wolfsheim posted:F1 makes reference to events from WL1 It was cute how F1 mentioned the Rangers from Wasteland, then F2 had its own group of Rangers, then New Vegas lore had both groups meeting and the Nevada Rangers getting absorbed into NCR
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Mar 10, 2018 06:13
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Neurolimal posted:There's a boxing sidequest in Fallout 2 that culminates in a Mike Tyson joke, torn ear and all. Uh. Excuse me. You are playing a Bethesda game. Synths are robot people.
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Mar 10, 2018 06:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ZUsum1c5g
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Mar 10, 2018 13:32
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2house2fly posted:Uh. Excuse me. You are playing a Bethesda game.
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Mar 10, 2018 13:58
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2house2fly posted:Uh. Excuse me. You are playing a Bethesda game.
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Mar 10, 2018 15:58
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Is there a good, working unlimited companion mod for Fallout 4? I could never get it working and always had to choose.
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Mar 10, 2018 16:14
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Here's a general fun mod I strongly recommend. https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/8856/ It gives the minigun on the vertibird explosive rounds so now they can actually kill something other than just level 1 raiders at close range. Use the power armor targetting HUD and enemies even show up in the dark. Criss-cross the commonwealth and lay down fiery death. This mod reduces enemy spawn time in Survival from 20 days to 5 days. https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/14403?tab=description With vanilla survival enemies only repawn if you don't visit an area for 20 in game days. Which when combined with the lack of fast travel means that most of the world never respawns at all. So you trek through empty areas with nothing but rust devil patrols to fight. Katt fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Mar 10, 2018 |
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Mar 10, 2018 21:30
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After giving up my raw survival run and started modding I just grabbed a mod that gave me back fast travel and quick saving. I mean, I could live without fast travel but I don't think the areas and combat are interesting enough to trek through multiple times but that quicksave thing is loving mandatory. gently caress having to find a bed to save.chitoryu12 posted:Is there a good, working unlimited companion mod for Fallout 4? I could never get it working and always had to choose. I'm looking for the same. I like turning everyone into my personal army and just not focusing on combat at all myself, but of the 3 mods I've tried so far none have really worked right.
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Mar 11, 2018 01:24
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I use the Tee Party mod, aka the Multiple Followers Overhaul, and it's largely worked as advertised. It allows you to recruit all of the regular companions simultaneously, and also has something like twenty slots each for human, robot and animal companions, which makes bringing companions from mods pretty easy too. You equip an item that lets you click on any person and add them to a recruitment slot. It'll also allow you to go through anyone's inventory easily if you want to equip people with weapons and armor without talking to them. It can have some bugs, though. For example, right now, I cannot fire Piper. At all. And of course having more than a half dozen characters recruited at a time can make small rooms a bit of a cluster gently caress, and on one or two occassions going into a building with a lot of companions meant I spawned something like fifteen feet into the building, which may drop you into a pitfall or stick you behind a locked door you can't open. Rare and manageable but still notable.
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Mar 11, 2018 06:43
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marshmallow creep posted:I use the Tee Party mod, aka the Multiple Followers Overhaul, and it's largely worked as advertised. It allows you to recruit all of the regular companions simultaneously, and also has something like twenty slots each for human, robot and animal companions, which makes bringing companions from mods pretty easy too. You equip an item that lets you click on any person and add them to a recruitment slot. It'll also allow you to go through anyone's inventory easily if you want to equip people with weapons and armor without talking to them. What happens when characters have to say a line about a place? do they all talk at once?
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Mar 11, 2018 07:00
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Garrand posted:After giving up my raw survival run and started modding I just grabbed a mod that gave me back fast travel and quick saving. I mean, I could live without fast travel but I don't think the areas and combat are interesting enough to trek through multiple times but that quicksave thing is loving mandatory. gently caress having to find a bed to save. chitoryu12 posted:Is there a good, working unlimited companion mod for Fallout 4? I could never get it working and always had to choose. This one, for Dogmeat + another companion, looks neat. PC and Xbox versions: https://bethesda.net/en/mods/fallout4/mod-detail/922931 This one allows up to 15, also for PC and Xbox: https://bethesda.net/en/mods/fallout4/mod-detail/912311 And if you're gonna clutter up your interior cells with excessive party members, you should get this one, which contains the Terrible Secret Of Space: https://bethesda.net/en/mods/fallout4/mod-detail/3263990
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Mar 11, 2018 08:46
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:What happens when characters have to say a line about a place? do they all talk at once? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I'm not sure exactly why they're not 100% one way or another. edit: Actually I think it's based on physical proximity--the nearest one takes talking priority and they normally space themselves out, but if they're all clustered together they're more likely to fire simultaneously. marshmallow creep fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Mar 11, 2018 |
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Mar 11, 2018 14:30
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Replaying 4 with mods for the first time and for all my complaints about the game I really think the “escape from Vault 111” sequence is really well done in setting up how utterly alien the world must seem to the SS. Of course this all goes out the window a few minutes later when you go to Lexington.
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Mar 11, 2018 18:25
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