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Dota "theme" isn't though, it's just a bunch of random poo poo that stuck to the wall, lmao
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Mar 16, 2018 19:09
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Nobody will ever criticize Blizzard for anything. They and Valve are Gamer Darlings Beyond Reproach. I feel like the tide is shifting a little bit against Blizzard lately; they are certainly still Gamer Darlings but 5 years of releasing nothing but Esport/loot box games (Overwatch, Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm) has taken some of the luster off. I’ve played Blizzard games going back to the Lost Vikings days and have been pretty disappointed with their direction as a company since the Activision takeover, and especially over these past few years as all this additional monetization has crept into their games. Parker Lewis fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 19:13
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I mean if you account for Destiny 2 now being under Activision-Blizzard they've gotten a LOT of pushback over that
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Mar 16, 2018 19:37
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Honestly the entire notion that a game like battlefront 2 should have unlocks at all is ridiculous but people really like to grind.
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Mar 16, 2018 22:13
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blizzard hasn't released a great game since wc3 so it's kinda funny they're just now seeing any pushback. diablo 3 might be the largest dip in quality from the previous entry in a game franchise ever.
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Mar 16, 2018 22:22
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Groovelord Neato posted:blizzard hasn't released a great game since wc3 Is there a gaming hot takes specific twitter? Also why are people angry about overwatch lootboxes? Hell why do you even open the things?
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Mar 16, 2018 22:30
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Panzeh posted:Honestly the entire notion that a game like battlefront 2 should have unlocks at all is ridiculous but people really like to grind. "Like" probably isn't the right word. Eurogamer did a "best games of 2017" and one of them said "You know I don't like Destiny 2 very much but I keep playing it so it must be good" and it's like, no you idiot! It's addictive.
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Mar 16, 2018 22:37
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hobbesmaster posted:Is there a gaming hot takes specific twitter? Because unregulated gambling is poo poo even if you want to justify it being "just cosmetics"
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Mar 16, 2018 22:49
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hobbesmaster posted:Is there a gaming hot takes specific twitter? Megaman's Jockstrap posted:"Like" probably isn't the right word. Eurogamer did a "best games of 2017" and one of them said "You know I don't like Destiny 2 very much but I keep playing it so it must be good" and it's like, no you idiot! It's addictive. Which is all to say that yeah, people actually do like to grind wyoak fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Mar 16, 2018 |
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Mar 16, 2018 22:57
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wyoak posted:But yeah they're targeted hard at brokebrains which is lame. That’s all lootboxes. They wouldn’t exist otherwise.
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Mar 16, 2018 22:59
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Microtransactions are one thing, sure some people can't resist them but that applies the same in all sorts of consumer culture. Beanie babies, those hideous degenerate dead-eyed big-head plastic dolls sick people hoard, fancy wheels for cars, clothes, sneakers, iphones, whatever. Gambling is different though, gambling is the problem. We don't let anyone who wants open their own casino, why should we let video game companies run online casinos, especially ones targeted at kids? We don't let cigarette manufacturers use cartoon characters to sell cigarettes anymore, but we let these gaming companies use cartoons to push their casinos.
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Mar 16, 2018 23:29
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There's a sweet spot where grinding isn't *fun*, really, but IS very relaxing. You can just sit back and plow through random JRPG battles or whatever and know for sure that your work will eventually pay off in making an upcoming boss easier or getting you closer to a build you're planning out for the endgame. There's an intrinsic "fairness" and accessibility to this dynamic that can be appealing.
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Mar 16, 2018 23:52
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can't imagine getting excited for the dota card game. i mean, you'd have to be the sort of person who doesn't know how valve operates with dota 2. it's also funny because they made like three or four new heroes for the card game but the talk of them being in dota 2 itself has just been  you'd think the obvious thing to do would be to slam the new heroes into dota 2 when the card game releases but hey
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Mar 17, 2018 00:22
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Valve's probably banking on skimming off the top from secondary market card sales. Unless they're not allowing that, but there's no way they would not do it.
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Mar 17, 2018 00:32
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hobbesmaster posted:Is there a gaming hot takes specific twitter? i didn't know the definition got changed to objectively true things. Milky Moor posted:it's also funny because they made like three or four new heroes for the card game hahaha did they really. valve taking forever to port the heroes bugged me more than anything about dota. it's like they had only three people working on it after the first two years of beta.
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Mar 17, 2018 00:33
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chumbler posted:Valve's probably banking on skimming off the top from secondary market card sales. Unless they're not allowing that, but there's no way they would not do it. they know that business is a mug's game, the real money is in taxation
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Mar 17, 2018 00:39
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chumbler posted:Valve's probably banking on skimming off the top from secondary market card sales. Unless they're not allowing that, but there's no way they would not do it. Not only will it use the steam marketplace for card buying/selling but it's not even going to be f2p. You have to buy in which will most likely get you some booster packs and then deal with the secondhand market (or open random packs) after that. The worst of both worlds!
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Mar 17, 2018 01:06
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Imagine if you had to pay a door charge at the entrance to the casino equivalent to staying there for the night and all it got you a coupon for a free drink. That's the future of AAA gaming.
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Mar 17, 2018 01:09
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Man, it sure is a thing to see Valve trying to get in on the hot CCG trend 25 years late. They'll probably be able to make money off of DotA fans regardless. But the hard lesson the tabletop games industry learned on the CCG model is that everybody's effectively reaching into the same money bowl, so unless you have the means to shove competitors out of the way like Magic: the Gathering did, you can't make it for very long once your game's novelty wears thin.
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Mar 17, 2018 01:50
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Man, it sure is a thing to see Valve trying to get in on the hot CCG trend 25 years late. They'll probably be able to make money off of DotA fans regardless. But the hard lesson the tabletop games industry learned on the CCG model is that everybody's effectively reaching into the same money bowl, so unless you have the means to shove competitors out of the way like Magic: the Gathering did, you can't make it for very long once your game's novelty wears thin. MTG is not far off releasing a new digital platform called Arena, looks quite generous and casual accessible too
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Mar 17, 2018 02:03
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AceClown posted:MTG is not far off releasing a new digital platform called Arena, looks quite generous and casual accessible too Magic: the Gathering is a great, classic game with monetization strategy I have no patience or desire for. Hopefully the digital version of Epic will see a full release sometime; it's basically a modernized and improved version of Magic without having to worry about collecting. Star Realms is out on Steam as well, which is a great all-in-one deckbuilder where you're just paying for sets of cards. There are alternatives to the whole CCG model, even if they don't get as much attention.
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Mar 17, 2018 02:29
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Magic: the Gathering is a great, classic game with monetization strategy I have no patience or desire for. Hopefully the digital version of Epic will see a full release sometime; it's basically a modernized and improved version of Magic without having to worry about collecting. Star Realms is out on Steam as well, which is a great all-in-one deckbuilder where you're just paying for sets of cards. Oh god yeah, look at the popularity of Slay the Spire, Card mechanics can totally be used for good games that don't buy in to the money sink trad CCG format. My problem with alternative games is that MTG is such a drat solid core game that when I try and play any of the new ones my initial reaction is pretty much always "This is OK but it's not MTG" which is a shame but I can't help it.
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Mar 17, 2018 02:40
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Milky Moor posted:I mean, you'd have to be the sort of person who doesn't know how valve operates with Dota 2 I'll get every card for free?  I mean the market junk and all that is dumb, but Dota 2 as a game is still miles ahead of anything else in that genre because you don't have to grind 40 hours for a new character or dole out cash.
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Mar 17, 2018 02:58
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Andrast posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0qZTS38cjw They've also been getting a ton of flak for all the shovelware that's been making it onto Steam lately.
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Mar 17, 2018 02:59
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I wonder how the digital card game space would have looked if every computer version of mtg hadn't been such a garbage pile.
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Mar 17, 2018 03:00
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Yardbomb posted:I'll get every card for free? more pays heaps of attention to it then drop it like it's hot when your agile development structure gets bored or whatever like the supposed 'annual' events they've done for dota 2 which have run like... twice since 2012, or a whole bunch of features they implement then drop, etc.
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Mar 17, 2018 03:39
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Man, it sure is a thing to see Valve trying to get in on the hot CCG trend 25 years late. They'll probably be able to make money off of DotA fans regardless. But the hard lesson the tabletop games industry learned on the CCG model is that everybody's effectively reaching into the same money bowl, so unless you have the means to shove competitors out of the way like Magic: the Gathering did, you can't make it for very long once your game's novelty wears thin. Hearthfire seems successful, and Gwent is also a thing, and there's a bunch of other competitive online card games that make money, they have different monetization methods, but it's not exactly a tapped out (no pun intended) market.
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Mar 17, 2018 09:23
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Yardbomb posted:I mean the market junk and all that is dumb, but Dota 2 as a game is still miles ahead of anything else in that genre because you don't have to grind 40 hours for a new character or dole out cash. it took them something like five years to port over all the heroes when it shouldn't have taken more than a year or so. there were years where i think one hero got ported over.
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Mar 17, 2018 09:51
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Skwirl posted:Hearthfire seems successful, and Gwent is also a thing, and there's a bunch of other competitive online card games that make money, they have different monetization methods, but it's not exactly a tapped out (no pun intended) market. It's not, but my point is that Artifact is going to have to compete with Magic, Gwent, Hearthfire, Shadowverse, Hex, etc., for time and money. The market for digital CCGs is probably wider than physical CCGs because of the worldwide market and not having to have local stores carry stock. But at the same time, the list of dead digital CCGs is very, very long. I'm sure that while Artifact won't die, I think it's a tougher market than they expect.
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Mar 17, 2018 14:02
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CCGs are garbage and I'm really glad I never got into them. I played Magic a bit in middle school but the idea of needing to keep spending money to compete repelled me entirely.hobbesmaster posted:Is there a gaming hot takes specific twitter? Even beyond the gambling argument, I just think Overwatch's loot box implementation sucks all the fun out of the process of gaining new cosmetics for your heroes. That said, I don't have a problem with the idea of random loot. If Overwatch's loot boxes were only gained on level-up or from special events, and never something you purchased with real money, I wouldn't have much of a problem with it, so long as they're treated as a bonus and not as the only way you unlock any of the cool things you would very much like to unlock. It would change loot boxes to "oh hey, let's see if I get a cool thing" instead of being the only way to get those cool things. (Unless Blizzard has significantly increased the rate at which players gain credits, I'm not really willing to consider them a viable alternative for unlocking cosmetics, because they also only come from loot boxes, and only in very small amounts at a time.) Even if they sell costumes for real money, as long as I can buy them directly instead of having to gamble for them, okay. It's far from ideal, but better than the current system. And I'll honestly accept that kind of thing in a game like Overwatch more than Battlefront 2, specifically because Overwatch is designed to be supported (sort of) indefinitely without asking players to buy an expansion or DLC, while Battlefront 2 will no doubt be replaced by Battlefront 3 one day and therefore another $60 paywall for a game with less content. If microtransactions are actually supporting a game's development for the long term, it's a different story compared to microtransactions that are there to squeeze more money out of a game before asking players to cough up another $60 to do it all over again. Harrow fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 15:56
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Harrow posted:And I'll honestly accept that kind of thing in a game like Overwatch more than Battlefront 2, specifically because Overwatch is designed to be supported (sort of) indefinitely without asking players to buy an expansion or DLC, while Battlefront 2 will no doubt be replaced by Battlefront 3 one day and therefore another $60 paywall for a game with less content. If microtransactions are actually supporting a game's development for the long term, it's a different story compared to microtransactions that are there to squeeze more money out of a game before asking players to cough up another $60 to do it all over again. Activision-Blizzard could fund Overwatch for years without any microtransactions just off WoW money alone. There's actually no real justification for lootboxes besides greed.
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Mar 17, 2018 16:17
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Truga posted:Dota "theme" isn't though, it's just a bunch of random poo poo that stuck to the wall, lmao Dota's theme is Warcraft 3 map editor assets. Improbable Lobster posted:Activision-Blizzard could fund Overwatch for years without any microtransactions just off WoW money alone. There's actually no real justification for lootboxes besides greed. Kind of a moot point since the reason these games exist at all is to make money. The Moon Monster fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 16:28
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The Moon Monster posted:Dota's theme is Warcraft 3 map editor assets. Money could definitely still be made without loot boxes. Nobody's really against game companies making money, they're against how much games get carved up and reduced in pursuit of that, and against the use of loot boxes at all because everyone should be against loot boxes.
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Mar 17, 2018 17:08
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Yeah, I'm in the frustrated position where I want to buy stuff with my Overwatch credits, but trapped knowing I should probably hang onto them for upcoming events where I can get more exclusive items. It's a system designed around making it as inconvenient as possible to buy things, and the net effect is that I just don't buy things at all.
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Mar 17, 2018 17:47
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these games we're talking about make so much money that they could support them for years and they'd still turn a massive profit from boxed sales.
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Mar 17, 2018 17:59
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The Moon Monster posted:Dota's theme is Warcraft 3 map editor assets. That was to demonstrate that actually they don't loving need lootboxes to fund continued development at all, especially since the game isn't F2P and that claiming that OW's lootboxes are to fund new maps and characters is bullshit.
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Mar 18, 2018 00:10
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The Moon Monster posted:Kind of a moot point since the reason these games exist at all is to make money. No, they don't unless you're a Ubi or Activision or EA shareholder who doesn't play games and doesn't care what happens to the industry. If you don't own a penny of their stock and you speak and think like this it's absolutely chilling. It doesn't make you savvy or adult, it makes you propagandized. Edit: Ok I reread it and I missed "these games", apologies...you're absolutely right. Years of being lectured by libertarians on the definition of business have rotted my brain. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Mar 18, 2018 |
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Mar 18, 2018 04:06
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:No, they don't unless you're a Ubi or Activision or EA shareholder who doesn't play games and doesn't care what happens to the industry. If you don't own a penny of their stock and you speak and think like this it's absolutely chilling. It doesn't make you savvy or adult, it makes you propagandized. I mean, from anyone but the end users perspective the purpose of making making a game IS to make as much money as possible for that effort. The problem is that as an end user, I've become viewed as a cashbox to be milked and not a customer to be swayed with a quality product. And it's hit the point where they don't even hide that anymore.
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Mar 18, 2018 04:21
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I read a quote somewhere about “making money to make games” vs. “making games to make money”. I realize that these are mostly giant publicly-traded companies that answer to stockholders we are talking about here but it was nice to at least pretend that 90s/2000s Blizzard, BioWare, DICE, etc. were a collection of gamers looking to make cool things for other gamers to play. When I look at things from that perspective it’s easy to see how loot boxes make more money, but I have trouble seeing how loot boxes make for a better game or game-buying experience.
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Mar 18, 2018 06:18
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FoolyCharged posted:I mean, from anyone but the end users perspective the purpose of making making a game IS to make as much money as possible for that effort. Virtually nobody developing your video games is in it for the money. Video game pay sucks.
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Mar 18, 2018 06:38
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