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Martha Stewart Undying posted:Why not both? Top bitch in New York, for starters. YES! Marina and Penny reboot. What a sick loving episode.
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Mar 22, 2018 11:20
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Balon posted:Our Josh has said a few times he slept with a werewolf of spring break, right? I’m pretty sure he bragged about that as soon as he was rescued. Yeah Josh have mentioned that before. I think he mentioned it at Dionysus party this season. This episode was great and I'm really glad to see Marina back.
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Mar 22, 2018 14:09
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that was a quality Days of Future Past scenario e: my favorite part of dean fogg is considering how many permutations of all this he's been through, seeing this iteration was cool. and very interesting to see that he didn't get mauled by Martin in the same way in timeline 23. i'd always wondered about that, why he tried to tackle the beast head-on in the pilot after experiencing all this so many times. maybe he was hoping to opt out of #40 early, maybe he thought if he pulled together all the mojo he could and took on martin directly he could short-circuit the whole cycle. i'd watch an episode that was just dean fogg in different timelines vignettes 1994 Toyota Celica fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 15:27
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So Fogg remembers every timeline? Why is that? I kind of forget or missed the back story of how all the timelines work. Like, when Fogg told Julia that in another timeline she was let into the school and became a super strong magician that confused the hell out of me. Why did he not let her in this timeline? Just for fun? Edit: I guess I’m just confused because I thought the timelines were parallel and not sequential. But then maybe they are sequential because that’s the way that pocket watch thing works. Blind Rasputin fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 16:47
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Fog was told about the other timelines by Chatwin. It was also established that the variation in this (current) timeline was specifically that Julia not attend Breakbills.
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Mar 22, 2018 17:02
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Blind Rasputin posted:So Fogg remembers every timeline? Why is that? I kind of forget or missed the back story of how all the timelines work. Like, when Fogg told Julia that in another timeline she was let into the school and became a super strong magician that confused the hell out of me. Why did he not let her in this timeline? Just for fun? if you've got Netflix go back and watch the very first scene of the pilot: fogg and jane chatwin talking on a bench in NYC. their conversation will make a lot of sense now elsewhere in season 1 (maybe 2) it's established that a sufficiently powerful magician can perceive every instance of a time loop they're part of. fogg, jane, martin, maybe the likes of mayakovsky, probably julia too now that she's sufficiently exalted to take up that god-slayer knife again. so by the time this loop, #40, gets started Fogg's been living this whole chatwin siblings' war + divine fallout situation for subjective decades, over and over. the whole reason quentin and julia got the idea to summon alice #23 in season 2 was because todd (of all people) let slip that his internship is taking down fogg's memoirs, and in those memoirs fogg mentions alice #23's quest to find quentin's soul and bring him to life. which is why i expect the real reason for fogg trying to face martin head-on in the pilot was that he wanted to die early in the loop, martin was just far too much of a sadist to give fogg that easy out. much more funny to take his eyes and his hands, and force fogg to choose between them (or to choose both and possibly turn into something like a niffin, if what fogg said about his rehab in season 1 is any guide) my pet theory is that quentin and elliot were able to get back some of their memories from their lifetime at the mosaic (with the assistance of peaches from that orchard) because by their old age they would've been on this level with fogg and the chatwins, even if elliot and quentin prime aren't there yet Balon posted:Fog was told about the other timelines by Chatwin. It was also established that the variation in this (current) timeline was specifically that Julia not attend Breakbills. you should watch that first scene too. fogg doesn't need jane to tell him about the loop, he's knows they're suddenly right back at the start of it after whatever prompted jane to perform reset #39. their discussion is about what they're going to try to do differently this time which was keep julia out of breakbills, as it happened ee: it's the details like this that leave me scratching my head when people talk about how 'rough' and 'bad' season 1 is. for me it was like reading a steven erickson novel for the first time, you're presented with several pieces of an incomplete puzzle and left to guess and speculate as the missing pieces are slowly added in 1994 Toyota Celica fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 17:02
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Yeah I just rewatched season 1 and I don't know why I told people it starts rough; there's so many layers and it hits the ground right from the start.
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Mar 22, 2018 17:56
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Whalley posted:Yeah I just rewatched season 1 and I don't know why I told people it starts rough; there's so many layers and it hits the ground right from the start. Because the tone of the show in season one is very uneven, they had an extremely limited budget which really held back what they could do in terms of special effects in showing off magic and Fillory in general, and they clearly struggled with how to adapt the books to television. I only watched it because I was already a fan of the books. I have friends who started watching it based on my recommendation, and many of them gave up just a few episodes in. I've had to encourage them to power through, because it does get actually good. Those who did power through are now excited about the show. Those who did not are now hesitant to listen to anymore of my recommendations based on those first several episodes.
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Mar 22, 2018 18:37
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A lot of it was in terms of missteps compared to the book, so it got people that read the books fearing for the worst like most shows that diverge. They end the first episode with The Beast in the classroom, which is a ways into the first book. They nix characters, rearrange some others, then you start getting episodes like the magic Quidditch stand-in game and people that were watching for an adaptation of the books find themselves watching something totally different. Turns out that was the best possible choice.
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Mar 22, 2018 18:45
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Quentin as the Beast was actually really awesome and I really liked how having a soul again for 60 seconds pushed him to kill himself. Very powerful. So NuPenny pops over, OldPenny's soul is grafted in somehow and now we have a weird love triangle right?
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Mar 22, 2018 18:47
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martin chatwin's grey and white edwardian three-piece was a pretty good look for quentin too e: i came into the show watching it on netflix after glancing at a few scenes from the Les Mis episode of season 2 on a friend's computer, without even knowing there were books to care about. this seems like a good way to get into it 1994 Toyota Celica fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 18:53
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I look forward to the Lovecraftian horror that The Quint-Beast says Julia is going to unlock.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:06
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Mortanis posted:A lot of it was in terms of missteps compared to the book, so it got people that read the books fearing for the worst like most shows that diverge. They end the first episode with The Beast in the classroom, which is a ways into the first book. They nix characters, rearrange some others, then you start getting episodes like the magic Quidditch stand-in game and people that were watching for an adaptation of the books find themselves watching something totally different. The best description I've heard of for the Magicians is Harry Potter: Postgrad, except everybody is Neville Longbottom in competency. Entire school years disappearing or dying is just comedy gold.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:29
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zeal posted:martin chatwin's grey and white edwardian three-piece was a pretty good look for quentin too It can be kind of weird because some of the scenes are very much the same but the overall plot can be very different. They also like playing around with the order stuff happens, like Julia's entire story was absent from the first book and showed up as flashbacks in the second, while Alice spends the entire second book MIA and doesn't return from being a Niffin until well into the third book. They really beefed up Kady and Penny's parts as they are bit players at best in the novels.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:36
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was i the only one a tiny bit disappointed this episode didn't involve the return of martin chatwin belting out prewar pop songs
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Mar 22, 2018 20:49
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zeal posted:was i the only one a tiny bit disappointed this episode didn't involve the return of martin chatwin belting out prewar pop songs Cheerful, whimsical, villains are the best.
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Mar 22, 2018 20:56
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I really can't get enough of Fog cursing. So... this is the second time a character has said some phrase that makes me think I really am officially "too old" because I didn't recognize it and google's got nothing. What the gently caress is "act out" supposed to mean? Also this episode was so loving good. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 21:16
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DaveKap posted:I really can't get enough of Fog cursing. It's literally how you end an act of screenplay. Dramatic reveal aaaaand... ACT OUT. Edit: It's exactly the sort of poo poo that Josh would pick up on J33uk fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Mar 22, 2018 |
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Mar 22, 2018 22:30
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muscles like this! posted:They really beefed up Kady and Penny's parts as they are bit players at best in the novels. Kady actually isn't even a character in the books. She is original for the show, they needed someone for Penny to playoff since he was antagonistic with the rest of the group at the start of the series. She is though somewhat of a combination of two other characters from the books, Amanda Orloff (Kady's full name is Kady Orloff-Diaz) who was killed by the beast in the classroom when Quentin first accidentally summons him and was also capable at battle magic, and Asmodeus who was Julia's friend when they accidentally summoned Reynard. But beyond those two elements, Kady is entirely made up by the writers.
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Mar 22, 2018 22:39
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Are there any allusions in the books as to where the keys lead and what monster they unlock? You can spoiler them I want to know.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:02
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Blind Rasputin posted:Are there any allusions in the books as to where the keys lead and what monster they unlock? You can spoiler them I want to know. In the book, magic hasn't been cut off yet. Magic is simply a loophole that was never intended, and the Old Gods are coming back to close that loophole. Fillory is that loophole, and the keys will unlock a door at the end of the world that will keep magic flowing. There is no monster in the book, so it seems that they are making it entirely up for the show, which makes sense as there are only 3 books and they're going to need more material. Book 3 is mostly about Quentin trying to bring Alice back to life (which we've already seen), and learning to accept responsibility for his own actions in his life.
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Mar 23, 2018 00:17
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Nihonniboku posted:In the book, magic hasn't been cut off yet. Magic is simply a loophole that was never intended, and the Old Gods are coming back to close that loophole. Fillory is that loophole, and the keys will unlock a door at the end of the world that will keep magic flowing. There is no monster in the book, so it seems that they are making it entirely up for the show, which makes sense as there are only 3 books and they're going to need more material. Book 3 is mostly about Quentin trying to bring Alice back to life (which we've already seen), and learning to accept responsibility for his own actions in his life. Oh great, so they can get really hosed up with whatever voidspawn Julia lets into the Everett-Wheeler Cosmos that hosts The Magicians.
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Mar 23, 2018 01:23
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mycomancy posted:Oh great, so they can get really hosed up with whatever voidspawn Julia lets into the Everett-Wheeler Cosmos that hosts The Magicians. The show has always been at its best when it has gone off book, so my body is ready for it.
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Mar 23, 2018 01:45
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Spanish Matlock posted:Yeah, but will it be through incredible tragedy or will the incredible tragedy be the mind horror of having two souls inhabit one body? Penny's new name will be Two Bits 
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Mar 23, 2018 03:34
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Y'know, it never occurred to me that if our present timeline is the best possible scenario, that must mean all those other worlds must have went hellaciously loving sideways. Like our gang has made a pretty big mess of things, but holy poo poo.
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Mar 23, 2018 04:09
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Nihonniboku posted:There is no monster in the book, so it seems that they are making it entirely up for the show, What if it's (not a story spoiler, just a worldbuilding background detail from the books that's never expounded on) the ancient thing that the whales are keeping pinned down with their spell network?
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Mar 23, 2018 04:13
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XboxPants posted:Y'know, it never occurred to me that if our present timeline is the best possible scenario, that must mean all those other worlds must have went hellaciously loving sideways. Like our gang has made a pretty big mess of things, but holy poo poo. Every timeline before the current one has been murdered by the beast.
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Mar 23, 2018 04:19
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Boris Galerkin posted:Every timeline before the current one has been murdered by the beast. That's how I had been picturing it, too, but this episode makes me think that it's much worse than that. Some people die? On a cosmic scale, that's a blip, even if the beast killed every human on the planet, which he certainly didn't seem to have any interest in. Hey, natural disasters happen, evil destructive gods exist. The universe would keep going without us. But 23 was more hosed up than some dead magicians. The entire library was empty, what the hell? And magic is gone, but this time no one even knows why and the quest chain to fix it is broken beyond any conceivable chance of repair. Oh, and by the way, this was all done by the guy that should be fixing things. He's gone full dark side. Even with the beast and Q dead, that universe is gonna take a long rear end time to recover.
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Mar 23, 2018 04:48
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SLOSifl posted:edit: I jumped in here because the “previously on” made no sense. I’m only halfway through on DVR but alt-Josh just mentioned werewolves. Did they seriously give us an alternative timeline previously-on and if so that is drat good. Also, Q being The Beast was pretty much the best Q. I wish we could've gotten more of that. At least then his hairstyle makes sense. XboxPants posted:That's how I had been picturing it, too, but this episode makes me think that it's much worse than that. Some people die? On a cosmic scale, that's a blip, even if the beast killed every human on the planet, which he certainly didn't seem to have any interest in. Hey, natural disasters happen, evil destructive gods exist. The universe would keep going without us. Yeah, okay, I'm now convinced they actually messed up somewhere in there. Good thing I don't care enough to complain but... yeah, timeline fuckery is hard to keep straight. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 04:56
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DaveKap posted:This definitely makes me wonder what constitutes the "end" of a timeline. Why is it that Jane Chatwin's death in the timeline we're following means the time cycling is over? Did she somehow not die in all these other ones? Or perhaps she was alive long enough to cast the spell? I also completely forgot/missed the part where anyone was able to remember previous timelines outside of Jane herself since Fog talks about remembering them... but wait, if he remembers, doesn't that mean she hasn't cast the spell yet and is thus alive? Or does Fog remember what happens in the timeline after she casts the spell until he dies? Why does he remember and nobody else? Previously, on The Magicians... Jane Chatwin knows that the Physical Kids are the key to defeating the Beast (reason unknown). The first attempt goes pear shaped, so she travels back in time in an effort to change the future by altering the past; a new branch of the universe forms to prevent causality violation, and now we're in loop 2. Dean Fog is a mother loving badass, so the loop 2 Fog realizes he's in a time loop and possesses the memories of everything before the Chatwin time gently caress. The Dean Fog of loop 1 continues in his universe, perhaps aware that Jane Chatwin is gone due to some powerful spell, but has no memories added because they don't happen to him. Basically each loop writes all the cumulative memories of Fog onto new Fog in a one-way manner. This continues until loop 40, where Jane is murdered and thus can't generate a new alternate reality. Basically Fog is an upper-level magician that you do NOT want to gently caress with unless you're imbued with Wellspring water or goat-god semen. Also I think that Universe 23 is so hosed thanks to Julia 40's influence on Alice 23. Quentin without his shade is revealed to be a loving monster that outstrips Martin Chatwin by a country mile, so Alice 23 is who really cocked that place up.
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Mar 23, 2018 05:30
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I wonder if Kady was a member of the main group in timeline 23? She's the only main cast member that was unaccounted for in this episode.
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Mar 23, 2018 05:43
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XboxPants posted:But 23 was more hosed up than some dead magicians. The entire library was empty, what the hell? And magic is gone, but this time no one even knows why and the quest chain to fix it is broken beyond any conceivable chance of repair. Oh, and by the way, this was all done by the guy that should be fixing things. He's gone full dark side. Even with the beast and Q dead, that universe is gonna take a long rear end time to recover. Magic was gone because Quentin killed Ember, and now they CAN'T fix it because they stole one of the keys. Which means there's one extra key in timeline 40, although since this is a time-seeing key it might be causally stable and only exist in one incarnation across all timelines.
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Mar 23, 2018 05:54
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WrightOfWay posted:I wonder if Kady was a member of the main group in timeline 23? She's the only main cast member that was unaccounted for in this episode. Penny 23 didn’t know who she was.
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Mar 23, 2018 06:34
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geeves posted:Penny's new name will be Two Bits Tuppence. Its legit currency
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Mar 23, 2018 06:59
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This show is fun. I’m really enjoying Julia’s ascension to godhood or whatever she is.Spanish Matlock posted:Magic was gone because Quentin killed Ember, and now they CAN'T fix it because they stole one of the keys. Which means there's one extra key in timeline 40, although since this is a time-seeing key it might be causally stable and only exist in one incarnation across all timelines. Yeah I thought that’s why magic went away. Marina would have obviously not known that. I think you might be right about the one set of keys thing though. Q23 specifically said he saw Julia let some monster in, but Q23’s Julia is dead so it must have been another JUlia. Unless Julia23 was brought back to life too I guess. Would you guys who’ve read the books recommend them? I’m looking for something new to read.
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Mar 23, 2018 07:35
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Boris Galerkin posted:This show is fun. I’m really enjoying Julia’s ascension to godhood or whatever she is. I only read book one in depth and skimmed through two, but I found it pretty engaging. I think book one's probably the best since there's more of the school based stuff and things haven't gone completely wild yet, but then again there are some massive differences there like how Julia is barely in it. Two wasn't a slouch either though, it just turned into more of a direct sendup of narnia with the characters in Fillory for like the whole thing, from what I can recall off the top of my head, and more of a grand quest theme to it. There was just so much fun for me in sending up Hogwarts with the messed up life choices of late high school and college student aged people, so if that sounds fun to you check it out! Book three's probably solid too I just never got around to reading it. One of my fave book things was that Josh's magic was always useless or insanely stronger than he wanted, so that made for lots of fun moments. He also takes to the Neitherlands much better than T.V. Josh and basically runs around finding literal elves, having sex with those elves, and then retiring to a huge-rear end mansion after selling his button to the dragon. Truly he was the real winner of the story.
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Mar 23, 2018 08:13
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zeal posted:if you've got Netflix go back and watch the very first scene of the pilot: fogg and jane chatwin talking on a bench in NYC. their conversation will make a lot of sense now I recently rewatched S1 and it's nowhere near as bad as I remember. There is still some cringey The CW moments with angsty music and stuff, but it's overall not awful and just gets better. mycomancy posted:Previously, on The Magicians... Fogg's alcoholism makes a LOT more sense after this episode (not that it seemed totally incongrous before, having worked in education myself...).
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Mar 23, 2018 08:20
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Probably the biggest difference between the books and the show is that Quentin is the main focus of the books while the show is more of an ensemble thing.
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Mar 23, 2018 10:15
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Pompous Rhombus posted:Fogg's alcoholism makes a LOT more sense after this episode (not that it seemed totally incongrous before, having worked in education myself...). As an aspiring professor myself, my response is, "glug glug glug glug." *pisses pants* *lectures*
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Mar 23, 2018 13:38
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Argue posted:What if it's (not a story spoiler, just a worldbuilding background detail from the books that's never expounded on) the ancient thing that the whales are keeping pinned down with their spell network? I don't remember that plot point actually, but could be cool! muscles like this! posted:Probably the biggest difference between the books and the show is that Quentin is the main focus of the books while the show is more of an ensemble thing. True! Certain characters that are part of the main ensemble in the show only make a couple appearances in books 2 and 3.
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Mar 23, 2018 14:19
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