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Battleborn and Overwatch came out at basically the same time.
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Mar 23, 2018 10:14
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muscles like this! posted:Battleborn and Overwatch came out at basically the same time. Also wasn't Battleborn more of a MOBA while Overwatch is a TF2?
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Mar 23, 2018 10:28
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I can sort-of forgive Gearbox on the Duke Nukem Forever, since they only published it, and one of the owners at the time started his work in games industry as an intern in 3D Realms, working on DNF (the pre-pre-release build). Also, their only argument to ever buy the clown car pileup that was the DNF assets and half-finished release version was to become "the guys who loving finally released the drat thing".
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Mar 23, 2018 10:46
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The Moon Monster posted:Also wasn't Battleborn more of a MOBA while Overwatch is a TF2? Battleborn came out a couple weeks prior to Overwatch. It wasn't really in the same genre but it did suffer from very unfavorable comparisons in the artstyle, hero roster, and UI. The art direction in Overwatch is a masterclass in effective and crisp design whereas Battleborn is, uh 
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Mar 23, 2018 10:58
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exquisite tea posted:Battleborn came out a couple weeks prior to Overwatch. It wasn't really in the same genre but it did suffer from very unfavorable comparisons in the artstyle, hero roster, and UI. The art direction in Overwatch is a masterclass in effective and crisp design whereas Battleborn is, uh What's the word for the feeling you get when you're about to puke? You know you gonna, you feel lightheaded etc. That's the word i'd use for the color scheme here.
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Mar 23, 2018 11:48
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My experience with Battleborn is trying the campaign mode's first level with a melee character, which was kinda lame but okay(?) up until the level's boss's final form where for some reason they decided to have it be a floating head that shoots aggravatingly accurate electric lazers that make you fly very far away from the boss making it almost impossible to get in to hit him if you're melee. Also at some point there's an area where you need to break freezing things before you freeze to death, except it bugged out on me once so I kept freezing to death after destroying all the things and there was no way to deal with that except waiting to die. Anyway, got back to Ys Origin and drat is Hugo Fact an annoying character, and he brings down the rest of the cast as well. The story isn't anything groundbreaking, but in Yunica's story it was competent and made sense for the most part, especially concerning character relationships and Yunica's growth as a person. On the other hand, with Hugo it's all really dumb and augh.
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Mar 23, 2018 12:09
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Isn't this picture edited? Surely that can't be the real UI.
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Mar 23, 2018 12:35
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Low resolution, but real.
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Mar 23, 2018 12:35
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That's not even the worst example people used to show back in the day.
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Mar 23, 2018 12:37
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Avenging_Mikon posted:Not exactly. But you can be banned for "griefing", which is loosely defined and strangely enforced. It does include blowing up someone’s car more than once.
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Mar 23, 2018 12:39
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Futuresight posted:That's not even the worst example people used to show back in the day. I guess there's some space in the top left they could use for even more clutter. Or just start putting stuff directly over the crosshair.
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Mar 23, 2018 12:45
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Well, imagine an image similar to that other one except it's from the perspective of this character: And also muzzle flash and damage popups. Futuresight has a new favorite as of 12:58 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 12:53
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Zanzibar Ham posted:My experience with Battleborn is trying the campaign mode's first level with a melee character, which was kinda lame but okay(?) up until the level's boss's final form where for some reason they decided to have it be a floating head that shoots aggravatingly accurate electric lazers that make you fly very far away from the boss making it almost impossible to get in to hit him if you're melee. Hellgate London did the same drat thing, where melee characters (which was like two of four character classes) couldn’t hit flying enemies. One of many reasons that game died on launch like battleborne but ten years earlier.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:25
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Hellgate London also had a $200 "lifetime" subscription tier before the servers folded in six months and were sold off to some Chinese company. In today's market you really have to admire its forward-thinking advancements in grift.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:30
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Ys Origin Hugo Run update - thanks for making me kill 4 really annoying mobs that are fast and powerful and take less than 1% their max health in damage from any attack I have that isn't hell to aim at them.
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Mar 23, 2018 13:52
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I liked Hugo because he had a snotty personality. If anything that game should have had a sequel not set in the Darm Tower.
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Mar 23, 2018 14:34
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That's a weird reason to like a character. I dislike him because he's the way over-used 'I'm so smart and you can tell because I'm so rude just like smart people and people keep saying how smart I am' type character invented as a response to the 'main character so dumb he literally knows nothing about how the world or anything in it works'
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Mar 23, 2018 14:42
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exquisite tea posted:Battleborn came out a couple weeks prior to Overwatch. It wasn't really in the same genre but it did suffer from very unfavorable comparisons in the artstyle, hero roster, and UI. The art direction in Overwatch is a masterclass in effective and crisp design whereas Battleborn is, uh This looks like my first UI I tried making with a million addons in world of warcraft.
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Mar 23, 2018 15:05
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I will defend Battleborn to the end but almost every aspect of it except its excellent FPS MOBA format was handled badly and Overwatch murdered them in the market for a myriad of reasons. In many ways it feels like Gearbox didnt understand the product they actually had and therefore went to market as shittly as possible.
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Mar 23, 2018 15:07
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The Overwatch Free Beta was one of the most brutal executions I've seen. One day Battleborn was there, the other it wasn't.
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Mar 23, 2018 15:38
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exquisite tea posted:Battleborn came out a couple weeks prior to Overwatch. It wasn't really in the same genre but it did suffer from very unfavorable comparisons in the artstyle, hero roster, and UI. The art direction in Overwatch is a masterclass in effective and crisp design whereas Battleborn is, uh You know when you see a clip from a japanese prank show or whatever, and there is a ticker along the bottom, several neon pop ups all over the screen and a second screen in the corner showing someone reacting to whatever is happening? Who the gently caress thought that was a good UI for a shooter?
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Mar 23, 2018 17:32
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exquisite tea posted:Hellgate London also had a $200 "lifetime" subscription tier before the servers folded in six months and were sold off to some Chinese company. In today's market you really have to admire its forward-thinking advancements in grift.  Don't remind me. I never do subscriptions past 3 months any more, no matter the discount.
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Mar 23, 2018 17:37
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Bloodborne would be a better game without the RPG stuff just strip leveling and durability and make it a pure action game
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Mar 23, 2018 18:21
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Len posted:Bloodborne would be a better game without the RPG stuff just strip leveling and durability and make it a pure action game Nah. This would absolutely kill replay value. Making different and unusual builds is half the fun of Bloodborne.
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Mar 23, 2018 18:36
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I thought there were only two builds: one with Ludwig's blade and one without.
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Mar 23, 2018 18:38
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Kit Walker posted:Nah. This would absolutely kill replay value. Making different and unusual builds is half the fun of Bloodborne. Counterpoint: Devil May Cry has plenty of replay and it's just hack and slash fun times. Honestly I'm tempted to uninstall and mass duplicate blood giving items so I can just ignore the whole drat thing.
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Mar 23, 2018 18:40
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Replay value is unimportant. Enjoying an experience once is perfectly fine.
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Mar 23, 2018 20:11
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Agent355 posted:Replay value is unimportant. Enjoying an experience once is perfectly fine. That really depends on the game. Enjoying a 40 to 60 hour RPG once is fine, but a game like Street Fighter, that needs some replay value.
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Mar 23, 2018 20:15
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Nuebot posted:Later on they made several DLC for Borderlands 2 that straight up weren't covered by the Season Pass - and after the fact decided to make a second season pass. Something people bent over backwards to excuse because it's totally cool to lie by omission - since they didn't tell people there would be more DLC beyond what the season pass contained there was little reason to expect it. Their handling of the Borderlands 2 DLC is almost as bad as Capcom's "We'll sell you the second half of the story and ending" garbage. You seem to actually be talking about the GOTY edition and not anything to do with season passes. Especially because there is no second season pass. Except GOTY edition doesn't actually mean anything and the post GOTY DLCs are inconsequential anyway. And how all of that was handled more than likely has way more to do with the publisher, 2K, than Gearbox themselves. Barudak posted:I will defend Battleborn to the end but almost every aspect of it except its excellent FPS MOBA format was handled badly and Overwatch murdered them in the market for a myriad of reasons. In many ways it feels like Gearbox didnt understand the product they actually had and therefore went to market as shittly as possible. Hey, Battleborn has rule 34 too guys! ...Guys? John Murdoch has a new favorite as of 21:22 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 21:20
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I've gone back to one of my Bad Games That I Have Fun With, Ace Lightning, that I stopped playing due to a gently caress up in a save state (I went to save before the second boss to have infinite tries, but hosed up and loaded back to halfway through the prior level), but the annoying thing that stops me playing it legit (at least that second area) is that to get to a boss you need to replay the preceding level - the first boss isn't too bad because his preceding section is really short, but Lady Illusion is all the way at the rear end end of one of the longest levels by that point in the game. It's not a bad level, although it has way too many enemies the overall layout is fun and interesting, but it's too long to have to play through just for the boss - I already beat the level, let me skip it, please! If I can beat it I'm honestly thinking of LPing it. It's not bad level design wise, if it had decent controls/combat that would be enough.
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Mar 23, 2018 21:28
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Leavemywife posted:That really depends on the game. Enjoying a 40 to 60 hour RPG once is fine, but a game like Street Fighter, that needs some replay value. I would argue 'finishing' a fighting game isn't like other games. There are genres that don't really lend themselves to being 'won' in that sense, since they might be eternal survival sims or multiplayer competitive games or what not. I generally only see people talk about replayability in a discrete single player game that you beat, credits roll, and you go play it again.
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Mar 23, 2018 21:37
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Some games are absolutely designed to be replayed, though. And if that replay isn't fun, the one "value" a game really needs, then it kind of fails at that part of its mission statement. The Souls games are for sure designed with a replay at least in mind - otherwise you wouldn't have weapons that require you to heavily specialize in one attack stat next to others that require the opposite stat, same for spells. You finding a strength weapon on a Dex build is not meant to make you go "ah gently caress if only I could equip it here and now because this seems like fun", it's meant to make you go "my next character will beeline for this weapon and I'll use it and have fun". It's fine if you don't want to play the game like this, you just want to finish it once and that's it, but that is clearly not what the game was made for. In DMC, Dante can use any weapon as heavy or light as it looks immediately, so the weapons at the very least are not meant as incentives for you to start over and try something else - you can just use whatever you want right here and there. DMC wants you to replay it because you'll probably not get an S[SS]-Rank on every stage first try, but I think it understands that not every player will want to strive for those ranks and thus they're not an integral part of the gameplay, just a score at the end of a level. Dark Souls weapon choice is an integral part of the gameplay, however. A more extreme example is Diablo 2. You can kill Diablo or Baal on Normal and watch the end cutscene and never play the game again, but that is NOT what the game is satisfied with the player doing, it's not what it's designed for at all. It wants you to replay it two more times to get up to Hell, because you'll only really unlock your full skill potential there and a vast majority of the items doesn't even drop in Normal and Nightmare, and even if you finish the game on Hell D2 still practically begs you to make a Barbarian for that awesome Scythe you found with your Amazon or maybe a Paladin for this unique scepter...or both??? Come on do it
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Mar 23, 2018 21:50
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Your argument is 'games designed with replayability in mind need replayability', which yeah I guess? I'm not sure I really see the dark souls example tbh, I think thats the perfect example of a game that is satisfying with a single playthrough and there's nothing driving me to go back to it. My argument is games don't need replayability and it mostly has no effect on how much enjoyment they have. It's hardly a negative but it also adds very little. I'd rather just go consume something new. I can count the number of games I've replayed on one hand. Games like diablo 2 are a bit disingenous to use as examples because, as I said above, some genres are just not designed with a win condition. Like you said, killing baal makes the credits roll but it's still very clearly not the actual end of the game.
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Mar 23, 2018 21:54
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I find replaying through games in a NG+ or whatever to be boring unless they add new story content. Playing through the exact same thing except now the bad guys are tougher is not my idea of fun. I never made it to max level in Borderlands 2, Victor Vran, Van Helsing, Torchlight, Torchlight II, any of those because it gets repetitive and feels like a waste of time. I never get to experience the game "they way it was meant to be played". I never get to see how the best skills and builds and the most powerful weapons work. It kind of sucks, but I understand that I am a minority. If I really, really want to know what it's like, there's always Cheat Engine to crank everything up a notch or, in some cases, Steam Workshop and other mods. I'll scour a game from corner to corner to find every bit of content I can, the first time around. If that isn't enough to give me all the best stats and gear then I'll probably never get it. That's my gripe: designing games so that you have to play through them more than once to reach maximum potential but not giving any incentive other than "bigger numbers" to play through more than once. I can still get 30 or 40 hours out of one and that gets me my money's worth. But it isn't what the developer intended.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:02
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Agent355 posted:Your argument is 'games designed with replayability in mind need replayability', which yeah I guess? I'm not sure I really see the dark souls example tbh, I think thats the perfect example of a game that is satisfying with a single playthrough and there's nothing driving me to go back to it. Many games fail on both counts, actually: they give you a reason to replay it (congratulations, you unlocked HARD MODE!) but the reason is bad ("so what, it was hard enough already?"), and it doesn't add any value whatsoever (cool, the enemies now take three times as much to kill). So, I get you completely: generic shooter #265 (this year alone) is 10 hours long and that's okay but because everyone demands the mythical ~replay value~, the developers slap two more difficulty modes on that's just some numbers added, print "30 hours of shooting fun" on the box and ship that mofo. That's not replay value, that's just a blatant lie. What I'm arguing is that for many games, maybe more Dark Souls than Diablo, it actually makes sense to replay them not just because you might want to, but because the game is built with the idea in mind and offers substantial rewards and a lot of fun to you for doing that. It might still not be for you - I'm not here to tell you GO REPLAY DARK SOULS NOW YOU loving SCRUB - I'm just saying there's more to it than just "ugh, replay value, the newest buzzword, amirite guys?".
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Mar 23, 2018 22:04
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Sure but some people will expressly call a game worse for not having replayability. You see it all the time. Somebody says some game like Do4m is great, then somebody else points out the campaign is only x hours long and it has no replayability so therefor it's a bad game. I don't get it. I don't demand movies have 'rewatchability' to be good, even though I'll rewatch movies that I really love. Maybe it's goalposting but I'm finding what I find terrible in the term 'replayability' is its use in detracting from games. If a game offers you something you enjoy and gives you a reason to go through it multiple times, great. Fine. Enjoy yourself. But I see people complain and moan about games lacking that, and that seems incredibly unreasonable when media in general is just an experience that you pay for. Once you've experienced it theres no more to it, you just move on. So like, in a dumb way a game that lacks replayability shouldn't be punished so I likewise don't see the point of celebrating a game that has it? Agent355 has a new favorite as of 22:23 on Mar 23, 2018 |
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Mar 23, 2018 22:19
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Movies are significantly less expensive than games.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:25
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I think part of that is paying $60 for a game that ends in 6 hours is arguably a bad deal. I paid $10 for Doom and loved every minute but at full price I may have been disappointed with that wet fart of an ending. Bloodborne though my first character got more than enough hours into to justify the full price and with this second yeah sure I got my one insight and gained level up access but I'm still stuck running around Yarnham grinding blood vials and bullets because both bosses I can fight murder me since I'm incredibly rusty. So while I remember how to open the shotcuts and get to the bosses I'm just wasting time because I can't beat them.
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Mar 23, 2018 22:27
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poptart_fairy posted:Movies are significantly less expensive than games. Yep. So? Demanding x hours of value for your dollar is a great way to get lovely padded experiences. I'd happily pay 60 bux for a 4 hour game that blew me away. (also a movie around here is 12 bux for 90 minutes, thats worse $/minute than a video game so your point doesn't even work there)
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Mar 23, 2018 22:30
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Agent355 posted:Sure but some people will expressly call a game worse for not having replayability. You see it all the time. Somebody says some game like Do4m is great, then somebody else points out the campaign is only x hours long and it has no replayability so therefor it's a bad game. "No replayability" is very different from "short and no replayability". In the second case the lack of replayability is not the main thing, it just compounds the shortness. You can have a short game that still has a lot of play to it because you can replay it, so you need both pieces of information to say there's not enough content (from your perspective).
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Mar 23, 2018 22:31
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