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I agree with Monathin, Asiina's analysis is good. It fits with the strangeness of the seemingly inconsistent part I asked Mord to elaborate on. My first impression of More's case was that it seemed like an understandable knee-jerk wrong conclusion to jump to and get overexcited about, given the Mod-provided flavor. I did not expect Mord to cling hard and double down on it, and now it seems a lot less plausibly sincere. He's willfully ignoring the behavioral data to latch on to flavor, and that's an easy move for Scum. He does not seem to be really thinking about my alignment, but instead whether his flavor case is airtight enough to can give him plausible deniability for "being wrong".
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Mar 25, 2018 01:50
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Xad posted:Right now we're assuming either Androids are town and scum team is Goku and friends, or that good guys are good guys and scum is some Androids or something.
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Mar 25, 2018 01:53
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I'm inclined to agree with the current points against Mord with regards to discussion of multiple scum factions. That aside, I want to go back to something I was saying earlier. Lumpen claims to be Android 15, a movie only villain, but also claims to be town. Initial those reasons were part of why I doubted his claim. Little Mac supported the idea that a character might not be strictly aligned as town/scum due to the fact that the flavour rule is written differently from the previous game. I think that lends credibility to Lumpen's claim. I also noticed this while thinking about that: Sandwolf posted:Hello I am here and I remember watching this whole series and I have no idea who my character is. Initially I took that to mean that Sandwolf watched the series long ago and just doesn't remember much of the cast, but if Sandwolf hasn't seen the movies and has a movie character, it would make sense they don't recognize their character. If that does happen to be the case (which is a bit of a leap, but a possible one), then that would add a little bit of support to Lumpen's claim as well. I should not that I while I mention Mord and Lumpen I am addressing these issues separately. I am not intending to imply that the innocence of one implies the guilt of another, nor would I argue that point in this situation.
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Mar 25, 2018 01:55
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keep in mind that you can be a super duper cool town character and then some rear end in a top hat steals your character and gives you their own lovely reject role
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Mar 25, 2018 02:00
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King Burgundy posted:I assume you mean KB. Not sure why you'd think that was a lurker vote. He's in the middle of the pack. It's gut. I just hadn't seen him post that much compared to the others, but that's fine.
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Mar 25, 2018 02:19
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Birdstrike posted:keep in mind that you can be a super duper cool town character and then some rear end in a top hat steals your character and gives you their own lovely reject role Sure but would that happen on day one or are you merely stating that can happen as the game progresses?
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Mar 25, 2018 02:20
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Lumpen posted:I agree with Monathin, Asiina's analysis is good. It fits with the strangeness of the seemingly inconsistent part I asked Mord to elaborate on. I haven’t removed my vote from you because currently, I don’t have anyone else I’d be comfortable voting for (and also we’re so far from Lynch and Day’s end that I’m comfortable with it sitting there). But what bothers me is that you were so loving willing to come out with your claim initially. However, you had mention the flavor in the OP directly positions the androids as the antagonists, which just makes all of this more confusing. And Asiina - this is a large game. Sure it could be one giant scum team, but I go into large games with the assumption it is more than just one Town team and one scum team and nothing else. IMHO that doesn’t make for as exciting a large game.
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Mar 25, 2018 02:22
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:Sure but would that happen on day one or are you merely stating that can happen as the game progresses? night 1 in the previous game
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Mar 25, 2018 02:29
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Birdstrike posted:keep in mind that you can be a super duper cool town character and then some rear end in a top hat steals your character and gives you their own lovely reject role I saw your character sheet, you would have been scum eventually!!!!
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Mar 25, 2018 02:34
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Mordiceius posted:Sure it could be one giant scum team, but I go into large games with the assumption it is more than just one Town team and one scum team and nothing else. IMHO that doesn’t make for as exciting a large game. And you thought it was worth mentioning out of the blue...why? I don't disagree, but, uh, that's something you bring up after people are analyzing flips, yeah?
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Mar 25, 2018 02:43
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GeneX posted:And you thought it was worth mentioning out of the blue...why? Mordiceius posted:Because I’ve seen multiple big games (most recently Final Fantasy 6) where scum quickly are assumed to be town because they were actually scum hunting a different scum team.
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Mar 25, 2018 02:48
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Double post.
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Mar 25, 2018 02:53
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Yes, I understand why it was brought up, and fundamentally agree that the game is big enough that we can't clear people for hunting scum, even more so than in smaller games. I'm questioning why you appended it to your long flavor argument about how every android is scum.
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Mar 25, 2018 03:09
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Wait. If you were town and an android in a game where the androids are scum according to flavor, you wouldn't come out as some kind of flavor miller? Because I sure as hell would, and I'd expect other town to do the same.
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Mar 25, 2018 03:22
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holy poo poo you morons flavor doesnt loving matter in dbz 1 there was characters that werent even present in the frieza saga that people had as characters god drat shut up about flavor
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Mar 25, 2018 03:28
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counterpoint:quite stretched out posted:i hope you took that motherfucker to flavourtown
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Mar 25, 2018 03:31
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GeneX posted:Yes, I understand why it was brought up, and fundamentally agree that the game is big enough that we can't clear people for hunting scum, even more so than in smaller games. Because I was speculating ways that it would be possible for the androids could be split across multiple scum teams. Cell is an android. It would make any sense for him to be aligned with anyone else. 17/18 are both androids, but they could be a pair of scum on their own as they never really had any allegiance to Dr Gero (Android 20). Basically, my point was that if you use ~*~*~flavor~*~*~, it doesn't make any sense for an android to be town. But that also doesn't mean that all of the androids would be aligned.
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Mar 25, 2018 03:31
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good afternoon!Mordiceius posted:I disagree. It’s day one, so we don’t have much action-wise to work from, so I’m going to build the flavor case for Lumpen. bit early for flavour arguments surely, and that seems to be all this is catching up
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Mar 25, 2018 06:03
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Tobbs Gnawed posted:I don't think flavor is important. My flavor is unambiguously a villain in the show and I'm town. thankyou tobbs this is how i was feeling Jeabus Mahogany posted:Voting Lumpen just to see what his deal is (and possibly shed light on the rest of the game's setup) is tempting. why did you say this jeabus. what prompted this post. ##unvote
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Mar 25, 2018 06:09
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Jeabus Mahogany posted:Okay, basically it's straight up wrong flavour-wise. He tries to paint all of the androids during the saga as absolute villains when 16, 17, and 18 all pull at least semi-face-turns during the saga. This feels to me like a smear campaign against androids so that any that pop up can be immediately ganged up on. someone may have already asked this, but if this is the case, why did you make the below post. Jeabus Mahogany posted:Voting Lumpen just to see what his deal is (and possibly shed light on the rest of the game's setup) is tempting.
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Mar 25, 2018 06:13
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flerp posted:holy poo poo you morons flavor doesnt loving matter in dbz 1 there was characters that werent even present in the frieza saga that people had as characters god drat shut up about flavor Who? I claimed King Cold but that was a scum fakeclaim, I think we also had Cooler fakeclaim
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Mar 25, 2018 06:30
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Atomic Soda posted:someone may have already asked this, but if this is the case, why did you make the below post. I was considering it as a form of calling Lumpen's bluff if nothing else came up. I thought it possible that a scum Lumpen would reveal being an android, but claiming town in order to throw any possible flavourcops off. I doubt they would have claimed the definitely villainous 15, though
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Mar 25, 2018 06:58
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My character is hilarious and my power level is like 5. Confirming. flerp posted:holy poo poo you morons flavor doesnt loving matter in dbz 1 there was characters that werent even present in the frieza saga that people had as characters god drat shut up about flavor I know I'm late to the party, but this rings true. Flavor playing isn't mafia. If it can be flavor solved then it is just a themed puzzle. I have a few town reads from some early posts that looked like genuine town reactions to roles and PM. Even with 27 players, my dude is just like the most background of people and not at all related to z fighting or androids. I assume by some of the responses that there a re a significant number more players with similar roles. I don't like how Lumplord claims, it looks forced and weird like he couldn't wait to do it, and had to preemptively defend what he was doing with the, this is not a Miller claim, but the big flavor case by mord looks bad. I want to say, flavor probably won't be a good thing to follow but eh no telling. I'll join disc soon Nat20. On phone and I've just been taking notes in a journal but: What I found wrong with lumpens claim most of all is what i believe I perceived shortly after official start. Tobbs remarks that they thought this was role madness and comments that it is not. 4 minutes later. Lumplord suggests that Tobbs post was a town post. 12 minutes later Lumpen claims. Why I have a problem with this is that, Tobbs makes a comment that I thought also did in fact lead me to believe he was town, but then he claimed an Android shortly there after. Suggests flavor sensors. Admits to being vanilla themselves. Even with the possibility of role fuckery, it just seems like an illegitimate point to press when there is nothing establishing extraordinary mechanics in the game at that point and even more now still with so many people hinting at possibly being vanilla or not all that extraordinary. I didn't play DBZ 1, but I feel like if the good guys were bad, then perhaps Lumpen was fake claiming, and show flavor casing is going against his plan. NOW If that's all bullshit, then Mord is probably a scum. I thought the day 0 cop joke might have been light bussing, still could be, but I think they are on opposite teams. Right now, I feel like voting Lumpen for weirdness in the play thus far. I think Mord flavor casing is terrible. Bird also made a good case on Jeabus. A few 'scum' claims too. Sal and Xad here's looking at you. Policy lynch all scum claims imo. Flerp jokes or claims a bus driver and given my own role he just might be one in flavor lol. I think Tobbs, crazyeyes, and sandwolf are town at this point from early posts. I think CLord had a weird post about Lumps. I'll find it.
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Mar 25, 2018 07:15
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chaoslord posted:Probably not a cult game, Lumpen likely just got one of the good androids This seems weird to me, but nothing else at the moment. Just.... weird.
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Mar 25, 2018 07:20
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:
Whats jokephase precious?
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Mar 25, 2018 07:21
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SalTheBard posted:Whats jokephase precious? Darling, joke phase is a treacherous ordeal that occurs when a bunch of fools gather together and agree to argue about who is REALLY scum, and let me tell you... Nothing is sacred, not even the light hearted laugh out loud joke phase . Mafia is a life ruining game. Don't play even once.
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Mar 25, 2018 07:28
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Mafia is a life ruining game. Don't play even once. This is probably the truest thing said all game
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Mar 25, 2018 07:33
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:Mafia is a life ruining game. Don't play even once. I wish I had taken this advice 6 months ago
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Mar 25, 2018 07:33
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Goku, is that you? We have got to stop this guy while we have the chance. He's... he's pure evil!
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Mar 25, 2018 08:08
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##vote lumpen
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Mar 25, 2018 08:08
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50 pounds of bread posted:Goku, is that you? We have got to stop this guy while we have the chance. He's... he's pure evil! hey bubbles
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Mar 25, 2018 09:42
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At the moment there seems to be a clear divide in those that think flavour is important and those that don't, which is interesting because I haven't got a clue about our DBZ universe or what you guys are talking about.
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Mar 25, 2018 10:23
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willie_dee posted:At the moment there seems to be a clear divide in those that think flavour is important and those that don't, which is interesting because I haven't got a clue about our DBZ universe or what you guys are talking about. welcome 2 the house of fun
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Mar 25, 2018 10:29
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Mordiceius posted:I disagree. It’s day one, so we don’t have much action-wise to work from, so I’m going to build the flavor case for Lumpen. Your case on Lumpen is contingent upon cell saga being a part of this, and even then you get into some heavy set up speculation. I feel like you're doing a lot of work, but it is way to dependent upon factors that are not known at this time, and I feel like this is an opportunistic push
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Mar 25, 2018 10:50
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But isn't it the case that this early on we are voting blind anyway, and that until we have a reveal we have nothing to go on. Once we get past the first night we will be able to go back and look at who voted for who ever went first. Hence why if there was a deathmiller it really screwing over the game.
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Mar 25, 2018 10:54
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Mordiceius posted:It depends on win conditions. Those numbers don’t honestly sound unbalanced at all. The scum teams would end up hitting each other and it’s not just townies who die. Lots of setup spec and play that doesn't actually work towards town victory, but plays at being useful.
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Mar 25, 2018 10:59
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willie_dee posted:But isn't it the case that this early on we are voting blind anyway, and that until we have a reveal we have nothing to go on. Once we get past the first night we will be able to go back and look at who voted for who ever went first. It is mostly blind. You just have to vote for whom you think looks the worst in play. We've gotten a good bit to go on with role crumbs, flavor crumbs and claims.
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Mar 25, 2018 11:01
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Anomalous Amalgam posted:I think Tobbs, crazyeyes, and sandwolf are town at this point from early posts. This stuck out to me so I decided to go back and look. I get the Tobbs read. I'm not sure if I agree yet but I could see myself making it. But sandwolf and crazyeyes? They have, what, five posts between them and all of them were during the jokepost phase. Can you expand on what about them that gives you a town vibe?
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Mar 25, 2018 14:46
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Crazyeyes posted:I will speak plainly. I took this as a crumb that they had an innocuous role like mine, meaning vanilla or very well near vanilla. Sandwolf posted:Hello I am here and I remember watching this whole series and I have no idea who my character is. This is spot on for this trend. Could be misdirection, but given how this type of stuff was volunteered without prompting makes me think, they were expecting a bit more bells and whistles than they got, OR that their character was someone in the background of the show like mine. I think scum would have simple fake claims, but like I said. How it was offered when it was offered... it just stood out to me. Will still be watching them obv, but to a lesser degree at this time.
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Mar 25, 2018 15:07
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Anomalous Amalgam#2799 Sorry I'm late to the game lol
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Mar 25, 2018 16:03
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